ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

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aggi
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Tue May 02, 2023 9:44 pm

Nonayforever wrote:
Tue May 02, 2023 7:59 pm
Surprised to hear you say that.
If cock ups occur in companies such as ours, where the structure is clearly designed to obfuscate the picture, then it really is a major cock up.
Under cock-up I'm including things like delays in AML and KYC due to the complexity of the structure. I've been involved with this kind of stuff with Americans before (we're a lot stricter in the UK than quite a bit of the US) and you can end up wasting a few months, where you're not allowed to do any work, just ticking all the boxes to take the work on. Still a bit sloppy though if that is the kind of issue.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by scouseclaret » Tue May 02, 2023 10:00 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Tue May 02, 2023 9:44 pm
Last year the 31st July 2021 accounts were signed on 28th April 2022. Deadline to file at Companies House was 30th April 2022. Just as this year, the first weekend of May was a bank holiday. The accounts were then available on Companies House website on 4th May 2022.

There's always a few days delay between filing at being available on the website.

Everything is following the same pattern this year.

UTC
I still maintain that if they’ve been filed, the can be published, even if they’re not on the CH website, and they haven’t been. But assuming you’re right, should we start to worry if they’re not available by the weekend?

The opacity of private equity structures like this always makes me feel uneasy - doubly so when accounts aren’t published on time.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by arise_sir_charge » Tue May 02, 2023 10:05 pm

scouseclaret wrote:
Tue May 02, 2023 10:00 pm
I still maintain that if they’ve been filed, the can be published, even if they’re not on the CH website, and they haven’t been. But assuming you’re right, should we start to worry if they’re not available by the weekend?

The opacity of private equity structures like this always makes me feel uneasy - doubly so when accounts aren’t published on time.
Where else are you expecting them to be published?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by scouseclaret » Tue May 02, 2023 10:12 pm

The club website for a start; certainly to shareholders. Company accounts are public documents and as such should be freely available.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by arise_sir_charge » Tue May 02, 2023 10:19 pm

But they don’t ordinarily do that at this juncture do they?

Why are you expecting it to be different to previously?

Everything and I mean literally everything, points to the accounts being available for public consumption imminently.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by scouseclaret » Tue May 02, 2023 10:22 pm

Im not saying you’re wrong, but what indication have you seen that publication is imminent?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by arise_sir_charge » Tue May 02, 2023 10:37 pm

The fact they are due, the fact the club said the embargo issue would be resolved by the end of April, the fact that they filed on the final day last year and the fact we’ve in the last 24 hours announced new investment with a major fan fare.

All of that tells me that there is nothing to be concerned about.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Tue May 02, 2023 11:01 pm

scouseclaret wrote:
Tue May 02, 2023 10:00 pm
I still maintain that if they’ve been filed, the can be published, even if they’re not on the CH website, and they haven’t been. But assuming you’re right, should we start to worry if they’re not available by the weekend?

The opacity of private equity structures like this always makes me feel uneasy - doubly so when accounts aren’t published on time.
I'd be surprised if they aren't available on Companies House by the end of the week. I'd be surprised if they aren't published on the club's website shortly after the accounts become available on Companies House.

Apart from expecting this year's filing of accounts to follow the same pattern as last year's - and, also following similar patterns to almost every other football club and most other limited companies in England and Wales - there are two other strong indicators that everything is in "good order."

Would we be seeing all the top publicity from JJ Watt and Kealia Watt if there was anything financially remiss or problematic at BFC? Would any of us expect Alan Pace et al to be drawing attention to the club's finances with all the publicity around a very high profile American sports couple "investing in BFC" if there was anything at all that could be considered "bad news" in the accounts?

Also, would we expect Vincent Kompany to be planning for the club's return to the Premier League and another busy summer transfer window if there were financial issues?

All indications are good.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Tue May 02, 2023 11:08 pm

scouseclaret wrote:
Tue May 02, 2023 10:12 pm
The club website for a start; certainly to shareholders. Company accounts are public documents and as such should be freely available.
Company accounts in the UK are filed at Companies House. Until a few years ago, if you wanted to inspect a set of accounts a fee had to be paid for access. It's great that this is no longer the case. However, the UK's free access to limited company accounts is the exception rather than the rule around the world.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by scouseclaret » Tue May 02, 2023 11:17 pm

My point is simply that once they are filed at CH, they can be published more widely, as they have been in every previous year I can remember. There is no need to wait for them to appear on the CH website.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Wed May 03, 2023 11:00 am

The groups finances and assets are distributed throughout the ALK/VSL group some of whose accounts are very overdue.

There is no excuse for the accounts being this late but it doesn't mean there are any issues. It does mean that it is hard for those who want to understand how the club is doing to do so.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 11:05 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Tue May 02, 2023 11:01 pm
I'd be surprised if they aren't available on Companies House by the end of the week. I'd be surprised if they aren't published on the club's website shortly after the accounts become available on Companies House.

Apart from expecting this year's filing of accounts to follow the same pattern as last year's - and, also following similar patterns to almost every other football club and most other limited companies in England and Wales - there are two other strong indicators that everything is in "good order."

Would we be seeing all the top publicity from JJ Watt and Kealia Watt if there was anything financially remiss or problematic at BFC? Would any of us expect Alan Pace et al to be drawing attention to the club's finances with all the publicity around a very high profile American sports couple "investing in BFC" if there was anything at all that could be considered "bad news" in the accounts?

Also, would we expect Vincent Kompany to be planning for the club's return to the Premier League and another busy summer transfer window if there were financial issues?

All indications are good.
and yet the transfer embargo is still live re rule 16.2 - it is worthwhile looking at that rule again

16.2 Each Club shall submit a copy of its Annual Accounts (as defined in Regulation 16.3 below) to The League, but in any event:

16.2.1 by no later than 1 March following the end of the financial year to which those Annual Accounts relate (in the case of a Championship Club); or

16.2.2 by no later than the date on which the Club is required to file its accounts at Companies House (in case of League One and League Two Clubs).


the rule appears to be about the submission of a full set of signed off accounts - not the inspection and approval of those accounts to the EFL

So it follows that a full set of signed off accounts have not been submitted as of yesterday - as it would be reasonable to expect the embargo to be lifted the same day as submission - once the pack has been verified as containing the full set of required (signed off) contents.


On a separate point is it reasonable to expect that 2 sets of accounts are likely to be submitted for CVHL and KCL (possibly even ALK Capital Ltd) the second years set of for a shortened period that ends July 31 2022?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 1:03 pm

So following a tip off - we have another Jersey based entity to add to the complex ALK/VSL structure

Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd (Jersey) Registration number: 132377. With the same registration date as Velocity Sports Ltd (Jersey) September 28 2020
https://www.jerseyfsc.org/registry/regi ... ity/316685

And thanks to now being able to see documents for free in Jersey (you have to checkout and have them emailed - we can clearly see that this entity is owned and controlled by ALK Capital LLC - A special resolution dated April 4 2023 filed April 20 2023 Changes the ALK Capital LLC Share to being a Managing share under Jersey rules (they did the same with the ALK Capital LLC share in Velocity Sports Ltd on December 24 2020 filed January 14 2021, though there appears to be multiple shares in that entity).

The Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd special resolution was signed off by Mike Smith on behalf of ALK Capital LLC and included an articles of association. I believe that this in the definitions of the articles, particularly the final paragraph, is worth noting given that these documents were authorised 4 days after the failed submission of accounts to the EFL
Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - articles - definitions - cause.JPG
Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - articles - definitions - cause.JPG (169.75 KiB) Viewed 3947 times
So once again I have updated the increasingly complex view of the organisational structure of ALK/VSL as I understand it
Assumed ALK Structure May 3 2023.png
Assumed ALK Structure May 3 2023.png (53.04 KiB) Viewed 3947 times

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 1:23 pm

just realised that with Velocity Sports Partners LLC no longer being assumed as the controlling party of Velocity Sports Partners Ltd (Jersey) the line of the link needs to be changed - my apologies

Assumed ALK Structure May 3 2023 v2.png
Assumed ALK Structure May 3 2023 v2.png (52.99 KiB) Viewed 3872 times

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 1:35 pm

and yes there is a direct solid link between CVHL and BFCHL not sure where that was lost to

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 3:03 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 1:03 pm
So following a tip off - we have another Jersey based entity to add to the complex ALK/VSL structure

Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd (Jersey) Registration number: 132377. With the same registration date as Velocity Sports Ltd (Jersey) September 28 2020
https://www.jerseyfsc.org/registry/regi ... ity/316685

And thanks to now being able to see documents for free in Jersey (you have to checkout and have them emailed - we can clearly see that this entity is owned and controlled by ALK Capital LLC - A special resolution dated April 4 2023 filed April 20 2023 Changes the ALK Capital LLC Share to being a Managing share under Jersey rules (they did the same with the ALK Capital LLC share in Velocity Sports Ltd on December 24 2020 filed January 14 2021, though there appears to be multiple shares in that entity).

The Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd special resolution was signed off by Mike Smith on behalf of ALK Capital LLC and included an articles of association. I believe that this in the definitions of the articles, particularly the final paragraph, is worth noting given that these documents were authorised 4 days after the failed submission of accounts to the EFL
Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - articles - definitions - cause.JPG
Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - articles - definitions - cause.JPG (169.75 KiB) Viewed 3704 times
So once again I have updated the increasingly complex view of the organisational structure of ALK/VSL as I understand it

Assumed ALK Structure May 3 2023.png
It is interesting to see what the Articles for Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd (Jersey) have to say about 'Cause' (Note the articles for Velocity Sports Ltd (Jersey) have no mention of 'Cause')

Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - articles - cause - the consequences.JPG
Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - articles - cause - the consequences.JPG (201.02 KiB) Viewed 3704 times

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Wed May 03, 2023 4:25 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 11:05 am
and yet the transfer embargo is still live re rule 16.2 - it is worthwhile looking at that rule again

16.2 Each Club shall submit a copy of its Annual Accounts (as defined in Regulation 16.3 below) to The League, but in any event:

16.2.1 by no later than 1 March following the end of the financial year to which those Annual Accounts relate (in the case of a Championship Club); or

16.2.2 by no later than the date on which the Club is required to file its accounts at Companies House (in case of League One and League Two Clubs).


the rule appears to be about the submission of a full set of signed off accounts - not the inspection and approval of those accounts to the EFL

So it follows that a full set of signed off accounts have not been submitted as of yesterday - as it would be reasonable to expect the embargo to be lifted the same day as submission - once the pack has been verified as containing the full set of required (signed off) contents.


On a separate point is it reasonable to expect that 2 sets of accounts are likely to be submitted for CVHL and KCL (possibly even ALK Capital Ltd) the second years set of for a shortened period that ends July 31 2022?
This is an important point because as far as I recall from the last set of submitted accounts of 'Holdings' the inter-company loan is between the two Burnley companies - 'Holdings and Athletic' and Calder Vale Holdings. And unless I'm misreading the situation, the latter has not submitted it's accounts from October 21.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 4:29 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 3:03 pm
It is interesting to see what the Articles for Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd (Jersey) have to say about 'Cause' (Note the articles for Velocity Sports Ltd (Jersey) have no mention of 'Cause')


Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - articles - cause - the consequences.JPG
So as interesting as all that is - it is worth noting that at the same time as posting these articles (via a special resolution) ALK absolved themselves from such 'Cause' issues and consequences by reclassifying their share as a 'Management Share' - a third class of share.

Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - resolution - 2023 04 04.JPG
Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - resolution - 2023 04 04.JPG (119.13 KiB) Viewed 3560 times
Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - articles - Share Classes JPG.JPG
Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - articles - Share Classes JPG.JPG (73.53 KiB) Viewed 3560 times
Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - articles - - definition - Management Shares JPG.JPG
Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd - articles - - definition - Management Shares JPG.JPG (36.1 KiB) Viewed 3560 times
When you read what the Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd (Jersey) articles have to say about 'Management Shares' it sounds an awful lot like the difference in share classes and the rights they hold as exercised by the Glazers at Manchester United - though in the VSFL case each Management Share has 100 times the voting rights on an ordinary share,

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 7:49 pm

So given everything I have posted today and the loudly proclaimed arrival of new minor 'investors' (I wonder how many more there are that do not want the publicity) it appears that there are tweaks afoot in the structure of the organisation that controls our club - but you would not know it from the Company Details page on the club website which has not been updated since September 2021 - it doesn't even get the shareholding in the club correct - that is now 86.6% since the offer to the small shareholders closed

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/company-details
Significant Interest: The Club is a member of the English Premier League (EPL) and English Football League (EFL) and is subject to the EPL and EFL’s rules and regulations. As required by those regulations, the Club can confirm the following person(s) have a ‘significant interest’ (as that term is defined within the EPL and EFL regulations) in the Club:

Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited is wholly-owned by Burnley FC Holdings Limited, of which 83.97% of its entire issued share capital is owned by Calder Vale Holdings Limited, a company incorporated in England and Wales (“Calder Vale”).

Calder Vale is owned, through a wholly-owned subsidiary, by Velocity Sports Limited, a company incorporated in Jersey. ALK Capital LLC and Velocity Sports Partners LLC are the only persons or entities owning 25% or greater of Velocity Sports Limited.

ALK Capital LLC holds and controls the voting rights of Velocity Sports Limited, and Alan Pace, Michael Smith and Stuart Hunt are each directors. The persons having a significant interest in Velocity Sports Limited, and therefore Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited, are Alan Pace (50.382%), Michael Smith (16.794%) and Stuart Hunt (16.794%).


Has Velocity Sports Feed has always been part of the structural hierarchy controlling the club? or is it now, with the ownership group looking to expand that it is to take it's place? The introduction of the new articles with significant mention of football rules and bodies certainly indicates that it is now a relevant entity for us to be aware of.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Wed May 03, 2023 7:57 pm

I am sensing that some of the delay signing off accounts is linked to the corporate structure and that steps are being taken to address those issues, and potentially linked to the decision to sack the previous lawyers.

Anyway, I take some reassurance from these things going on behind the scenes and hope it’s all resolved soon.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Carwin261 » Wed May 03, 2023 8:08 pm

The bottom line for me is,Should we be wetting ourselves,& is the present joy,& optimism running round our club just a false dawn,& in the near future ,will those down the road be laughing their cotton socks off over our financial demise?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Wed May 03, 2023 8:15 pm

Carwin261 wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 8:08 pm
The bottom line for me is,Should we be wetting ourselves,& is the present joy,& optimism running round our club just a false dawn,& in the near future ,will those down the road be laughing their cotton socks off over our financial demise?
No, no and er....no
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 8:25 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 8:15 pm
No, no and er....no
I think I agree with that overall - It is right for fans to be aware of these intricacies but the people running the club have shown themselves to be capable

I know a number of small shareholders are and have been experiencing issues (for quite some time) in regards to their rights under the Companies Act 2006 that may/may not create problems for some of the directors down the line, but I do not know of (or believe there to be) anything untoward with our financial situation.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by 123EasyasBFC » Wed May 03, 2023 8:42 pm

Some effort from you Chester Perry posting all the information and the family tree style imagine, helps give the average fan a sense of what the business side means.

Do we imagine the embargo gets lifted as soon as season finishes on Monday

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 8:52 pm

123EasyasBFC wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 8:42 pm
Some effort from you Chester Perry posting all the information and the family tree style imagine, helps give the average fan a sense of what the business side means.

Do we imagine the embargo gets lifted as soon as season finishes on Monday
my understanding is the embargo gets lifted the day we submit a valid pack of accounts for the 2021/22 season with the appropriate signatures - as I posted earlier rule 16.2 appears to be about a submission of a specific set of contents together with signatures of authorisation from a club director and the auditors.

if issues are found with the contents on detailed inspection, then that may lead to other charges - more likely under the Profit and Sustainability rules (FFP to us mortals) - but that would be an exceptional occurrence which the club will be wanting to avoid

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by 123EasyasBFC » Wed May 03, 2023 9:05 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 8:52 pm
my understanding is the embargo gets lifted the day we submit a valid pack of accounts for the 2021/22 season with the appropriate signatures - as I posted earlier rule 16.2 appears to be about a submission of a specific set of contents together with signatures of authorisation from a club director and the auditors.

if issues are found with the contents on detailed inspection, then that may lead to other charges - more likely under the Profit and Sustainability rules (FFP to us mortals) - but that would be an exceptional occurrence which the club will be wanting to avoid
And we all like to think we wouldn’t be in breach of FFP for 21/22 with the premier league money and Chris wood sale

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nonayforever » Wed May 03, 2023 9:29 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 8:52 pm
my understanding is the embargo gets lifted the day we submit a valid pack of accounts for the 2021/22 season with the appropriate signatures - as I posted earlier rule 16.2 appears to be about a submission of a specific set of contents together with signatures of authorisation from a club director and the auditors.
What would be the potential consequences to Burnley FC if the new auditors either can't or won't sign off the accounts ?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 9:31 pm

123EasyasBFC wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 9:05 pm
And we all like to think we wouldn’t be in breach of FFP for 21/22 with the premier league money and Chris wood sale
My understanding is that there would have been a significant operating profit that season before MSD repayments and player trading

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 9:36 pm

Nonayforever wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 9:29 pm
What would be the potential consequences to Burnley FC if the new auditors either can't or won't sign off the accounts ?
We have actual accountants on here that can answer that question from a legal perspective - but from a football perspective the EFL often has defined penalties for each of it's rule breaches re finances - I have not looked but you may find them in here

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/ef ... gulations/

The Premier League do not have defined penalties because no one has ever broken the rules before. Though there has been indication that they will now apply any penalty the EFL has given if the club is subsequently promoted

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Carwin261 » Wed May 03, 2023 9:38 pm

Nonayforever wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 9:29 pm
What would be the potential consequences to Burnley FC if the new auditors either can't or won't sign off the accounts ?
Obviously we wont be able to sign our current loan signings.or anyone else.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nonayforever » Wed May 03, 2023 9:52 pm

Carwin261 wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 9:38 pm
Obviously we wont be able to sign our current loan signings.or anyone else.
From reading the EFL rules it appears that upon promotion the problem becomes the PLs problem.
Therefore I doubt the transfer embargo would apply.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 9:57 pm

Nonayforever wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 9:52 pm
From reading the EFL rules it appears that upon promotion the problem becomes the PLs problem.
Therefore I doubt the transfer embargo would apply.
As I have said a number of times - that practice appears to be changing - The Premier League are proving keen to show they can deal with issues themselves in partnership with the EFL and FA without the imposition of an independent Football Regulator - it is why we are now seeing significant charges against Manchester City and Everton being stringently pursued

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed May 03, 2023 9:59 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 8:25 pm
I think I agree with that overall - It is right for fans to be aware of these intricacies but the people running the club have shown themselves to be capable

I know a number of small shareholders are and have been experiencing issues (for quite some time) in regards to their rights under the Companies Act 2006 that may/may not create problems for some of the directors down the line, but I do not know of (or believe there to be) anything untoward with our financial situation.
this is what we want to hear, the rest of it is a bit too technical for most of us tbh so it's always useful when you add this sort of context CP :)
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nonayforever » Wed May 03, 2023 10:01 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 9:57 pm
As I have said a number of times - that practice appears to be changing - The Premier League are proving keen to show they can deal with issues themselves in partnership with the EFL and FA without the imposition of an independent Football Regulator - it is why we are now seeing significant charges against Manchester City and Everton being stringently pursued
I agree, but without current rules in place, the matter can be dragged out as witnessed by the above mentioned clubs.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 10:04 pm

Nonayforever wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:01 pm
I agree, but without current rules in place, the matter can be dragged out as witnessed by the above mentioned clubs.
I would not want us to be a test case for that theory - we know that the Premier League do not allow the right of appealing to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, in fact they only allow one appeal to a domestic panel

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 10:41 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 9:59 pm
this is what we want to hear, the rest of it is a bit too technical for most of us tbh so it's always useful when you add this sort of context CP :)
It is the technicalities that are important, there was a lot of detail in todays posts that needs to be out there, people can get too carried away in the here and now of a wonderful season without knowing what is happening in the background. Surely some are uncomfortable with the level of control and freedom from recourse that ALK have injected into Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd (Jersey). There is a lot that ALK have gotten right in the past year but there is also much in the background that requires scrutiny and at times criticism.

How about this one

Would you like me, have an issue with the fact that the Burnley FC Fan Advisory Board meet with Club officials but do not publish minutes of meetings so fans can see what is being said on their behalf and cannot really talk about what has been said because they have had to sign NDA's to actually take part? the last meeting was around the 19th of April and it would be nice to know what happened

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Wed May 03, 2023 10:54 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:41 pm
Would you like me, have an issue with the fact that the Burnley FC Fan Advisory Board meet with Club officials but do not publish minutes of meetings so fans can see what is being said on their behalf and cannot really talk about what has been said because they have had to sign NDA's to actually take part? the last meeting was around the 19th of April and it would be nice to know what happened
I’m honestly not bothered in the slightest that the FAB have signed NDA’s (absolutely commonplace in scenarios where people are exposed to potentially commercially sensitive information) or that minutes aren’t produced. Again, most likely because of the nature of what they’re discussing and providing feedback on. I’m glad there is one and fans voices are being heard.

I just want the accounts filed and the embargo lifted.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 03, 2023 11:07 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:54 pm
I’m honestly not bothered in the slightest that the FAB have signed NDA’s (absolutely commonplace in scenarios where people are exposed to potentially commercially sensitive information) or that minutes aren’t produced. Again, most likely because of the nature of what they’re discussing and providing feedback on. I’m glad there is one and fans voices are being heard.

I just want the accounts filed and the embargo lifted.
I am interested how that works in a representative context - your MP can be a cabinet minister and subject to the official secrets act on a number of issues but will still give an overview of their activities while not sharing certain confidential details.

Is it not reasonable to assume that the situation around the embargo was discussed at the last meeting for instance - one member of the FAB is also Chair of the Supporters Trust which holds 130 or so shares in the club. Shareholders have a specific right to understand how that situation arose, when a new auditor was appointed and who it is, together with sight of the ledger for the meeting where it was decided to dispense with the services of the previous auditor along with other meetings in which the issues around compiling the accounts were discussed. The Trust should be pursuing this and at very least making the situation known to their members. Is that ability compromised by the NDA for the FAB? perhaps not but we don't know. The club under this ownership has been much more opaque on its activities than it has ever been in its history. It is relying on attitudes like yours to continue with that approach

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Spike » Wed May 03, 2023 11:18 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:54 pm
I’m honestly not bothered in the slightest that the FAB have signed NDA’s (absolutely commonplace in scenarios where people are exposed to potentially commercially sensitive information) or that minutes aren’t produced. Again, most likely because of the nature of what they’re discussing and providing feedback on. I’m glad there is one and fans voices are being heard.

I just want the accounts filed and the embargo lifted.
Maybe the auditors can’t disclose the accounts due to having signed an NDA

I am very concerned that Supporters are allegedly willing to sign NDA’s just so that they can feel important and not share information with the actual supporters they pretend to represent

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu May 04, 2023 12:21 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:41 pm
It is the technicalities that are important, there was a lot of detail in todays posts that needs to be out there, people can get too carried away in the here and now of a wonderful season without knowing what is happening in the background. Surely some are uncomfortable with the level of control and freedom from recourse that ALK have injected into Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd (Jersey). There is a lot that ALK have gotten right in the past year but there is also much in the background that requires scrutiny and at times criticism.

How about this one

Would you like me, have an issue with the fact that the Burnley FC Fan Advisory Board meet with Club officials but do not publish minutes of meetings so fans can see what is being said on their behalf and cannot really talk about what has been said because they have had to sign NDA's to actually take part? the last meeting was around the 19th of April and it would be nice to know what happened
I think you misunderstood what I was saying (I don't think I explained it well tbh), as well as the technical side it was useful that you said "It is right for fans to be aware of these intricacies but the people running the club have shown themselves to be capable". There are many of us that appreciate the end result as such rather than just the full blown technical stuff - that is clearly of use to many folks who hold an interest in the in depth and have good knowledge of accounting but for many of us much of it goes over our heads ! I hope that's a bit clearer, carry on your good work :)

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu May 04, 2023 12:27 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 10:41 pm

How about this one

Would you like me, have an issue with the fact that the Burnley FC Fan Advisory Board meet with Club officials but do not publish minutes of meetings so fans can see what is being said on their behalf and cannot really talk about what has been said because they have had to sign NDA's to actually take part? the last meeting was around the 19th of April and it would be nice to know what happened
if your only source is the tweet you put on the NDA thread I'd need way more than that to believe it either way tbh

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 04, 2023 12:30 am

you will find there is more than one point raised in that paragraph

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu May 04, 2023 12:31 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 12:30 am
you will find there is more than one point raised in that paragraph
have you forgotten how to use the quote function mate !!! :D

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu May 04, 2023 6:03 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 12:27 am
if your only source is the tweet you put on the NDA thread I'd need way more than that to believe it either way tbh
Having now read said tweet, iam amazed it's being taken so seriously

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by OffTheBar » Thu May 04, 2023 8:09 am

The Premier League’s document on fan engagement standards state there should be an NDA in place. So nothing to see here at all.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Thu May 04, 2023 9:55 am

OffTheBar wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 8:09 am
The Premier League’s document on fan engagement standards state there should be an NDA in place. So nothing to see here at all.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Really quite funny that on a thread we’ve all been berating the club for seemingly lax on following league protocols… they get criticised for following league protocols…

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu May 04, 2023 10:22 am

OffTheBar wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 8:09 am
The Premier League’s document on fan engagement standards state there should be an NDA in place. So nothing to see here at all.
Is that the same for EFL?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by OffTheBar » Thu May 04, 2023 11:27 am

No idea, and not sure if the EFL have one. I just found the PL doc via Google. But guess we should follow the PL now for this.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by HistoricalClaret » Thu May 04, 2023 12:07 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Tue May 02, 2023 11:01 pm
I'd be surprised if they aren't available on Companies House by the end of the week. I'd be surprised if they aren't published on the club's website shortly after the accounts become available on Companies House.

Apart from expecting this year's filing of accounts to follow the same pattern as last year's - and, also following similar patterns to almost every other football club and most other limited companies in England and Wales - there are two other strong indicators that everything is in "good order."

Would we be seeing all the top publicity from JJ Watt and Kealia Watt if there was anything financially remiss or problematic at BFC? Would any of us expect Alan Pace et al to be drawing attention to the club's finances with all the publicity around a very high profile American sports couple "investing in BFC" if there was anything at all that could be considered "bad news" in the accounts?

Also, would we expect Vincent Kompany to be planning for the club's return to the Premier League and another busy summer transfer window if there were financial issues?

All indications are good.
Also worth noting that Watt's lawyers almost certainly got to see our most recent accounts before decision was made on investment and it all still went ahead ok

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by arise_sir_charge » Thu May 04, 2023 12:10 pm

STAND BY YOUR BEDS THE ACCOUNTS HAVE BEEN FILED!!
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