Howe Vs Dyche

[Jakubclaret]

Agreed. He did take the job though. They will get Bielsa next season and continue their calamity.

That's unlikely in the championship but we will see.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Agreed. He did take the job though. They will get Bielsa next season and continue their calamity.

They can't afford the transfer spending Bielsa is going to demand, let's be honest here.

[Shaggy]

Not sure I actually care that much to be honest. We’re not going to get a fair comparison between them whichever way it gets sliced up. Both managers have their own merits and both contributed to our recent success, but you still can’t fairly compare them at all really

Which in plain English says. I can’t find any argument for Dyche…

27.6% win percentage is crap.

[Jakubclaret]

They can't afford the transfer spending Bielsa is going to demand, let's be honest here.

Agree, common sense would suggest if they couldn't agree terms with him whilst in the PL how are they going to agree anything whilst in the championship on the assumption they end up there.

[Rick_Muller]

Which in plain English says. I can’t find any argument for Dyche…

27.6% win percentage is crap.

No. In plain English it states that "I dont care"

[IanMcL]

That's unlikely in the championship but we will see.

He did Leeds in the Championship. Gives him breathing space to make the changes.

[Jakubclaret]

He did Leeds in the Championship. Gives him breathing space to make the changes.

You never know with the return I just can't see it happening but I could be wrong, I just think him & Leeds & have moved onto different things & it's nostalgic reunions but you rarely recapture what once worked.

[boatshed bill]

It clearly isn't that simple, carry on being silly it's a job you are familiar with & go beyond all expectations.

HaHa. Just read this. I might be silly, and I might enjoy it.
But being stupid is your territory...somewhere I don't choose to go.

[aggi]

Which in plain English says. I can’t find any argument for Dyche…

27.6% win percentage is crap.

Sounds like the type of win percentage that would get you the Newcastle job.

[KRBFC]

I think it’s a fair observation that the Pl has moved beyond Dyche given his horrific record over the last 2 1/2 years as a PL manager. Did we win just twice (Brentford and Everton) in his last season here? He must have managed close to 30 games too before MJ took over.

No matter how you dress it up, the football is really miserable and makes fans hate watching their own team play. People say it’s all about results but judging by our attendances, fans want more.

[Steve1956]

Just a honest question....could Dyche have done what Howe has done at Newcastle?

[warksclaret]

NO. Howe has shown he can manage top players, for example he is using Wilson & Isaak very effectively, rarely playing both but keeping them both motivated.He is tactically in a different world to Dyche, with the ability to change it round earlier rather than later in a game. He has massively developed existing players like Linton, Almiron, Woodstaffe,Schar. If certain players are not performing he is quick to drop them With Dyche he has seen the pairing of Tarkse/Keane performing poorly in the last 4-5 games but keeps a recent international defender in Coady in the dark, and Mina who has been a top defender out of the first team.I will bet my house the same pairing start on Monday v Brighton. Dyche has a quick match winner in Gray, but has not given him any minutes in the last few games. On Monday Leicester were there for the taking and Gray with his pace would have caused problems in the last 10-15 minutes but other than replace the injured Coleman Dyche made no changes.

In time I would like to see Howe manage England as I could see him taking them to the next level. Having said all this though, I am not sure Howe could be more effective with the current Everton team, but he would at least experiment a little more in getting the best starting 11, and using fringe players more effectively

[Steve1956]

NO. Howe has shown he can manage top players, for example he is using Wilson & Isaak very effectively, rarely playing both but keeping them both motivated.He is tactically in a different world to Dyche, with the ability to change it round earlier rather than later in a game. He has massively developed existing players like Linton, Almiron, Woodstaffe,Schar. If certain players are not performing he is quick to drop them With Dyche he has seen the pairing of Tarkse/Keane performing poorly in the last 4-5 games but keeps a recent international defender in Coady in the dark, and Mina who has been a top defender out of the first team.I will bet my house the same pairing start on Monday v Brighton. Dyche has a quick match winner in Gray, but has not given him any minutes in the last few games. On Monday Leicester were there for the taking and Gray with his pace would have caused problems in the last 10-15 minutes but other than replace the injured Coleman Dyche made no changes.

In time I would like to see Howe manage England as I could see him taking them to the next level. Having said all this though, I am not sure Howe could be more effective with the current Everton team, but he would at least experiment a little more in getting the best starting 11, and using fringe players more effectively

Great reply to my query Warks you summed the question up perfectly.

[warksclaret]

NO. Howe has shown he can manage top players, for example he is using Wilson & Isaak very effectively, rarely playing both but keeping them both motivated.He is tactically in a different world to Dyche, with the ability to change it round earlier rather than later in a game. He has massively developed existing players like Linton, Almiron, Woodstaffe,Schar. If certain players are not performing he is quick to drop them With Dyche he has seen the pairing of Tarkse/Keane performing poorly in the last 4-5 games but keeps a recent international defender in Coady in the dark, and Mina who has been a top defender out of the first team.I will bet my house the same pairing start on Monday v Brighton. Dyche has a quick match winner in Gray, but has not given him any minutes in the last few games. On Monday Leicester were there for the taking and Gray with his pace would have caused problems in the last 10-15 minutes but other than replace the injured Coleman Dyche made no changes.

In time I would like to see Howe manage England as I could see him taking them to the next level. Having said all this though, I am not sure Howe could be more effective with the current Everton team, but he would at least experiment a little more in getting the best starting 11, and using fringe players more effectively

Cheers Steve-not use to that type of response

[Pearcey]

I still can’t get my head around the level of disrespect shown to Dyche by some of you. Bizarre old lot. Howe was dire for us and Dyche was unbelievable. Howe is doing very well at Newcastle and fair play to him. Dyche has taken over a dreadful team and wasn’t able to sign one player in the transfer window. He has got them giving their all for the shirt though and they still have a chance of survival.
I’ll be forever grateful to Howe for stepping aside and letting Dyche in. I can’t imagine where we’d be if he hadn’t.

[warksclaret]

I still can’t get my head around the level of disrespect shown to Dyche by some of you. Bizarre old lot. Howe was dire for us and Dyche was unbelievable. Howe is doing very well at Newcastle and fair play to him. Dyche has taken over a dreadful team and wasn’t able to sign one player in the transfer window. He has got them giving their all for the shirt though and they still have a chance of survival.
I’ll be forever grateful to Howe for stepping aside and letting Dyche in. I can’t imagine where we’d be if he hadn’t.

If you read my post above you will see I state that I am not sure Howe could have got more out of the current Everton team than Dyche, but maybe would have experimented more where it warranted.Sometimes by being honest and balanced ,people regard this as being "disrespective to SD". By the same gesture, its easy to be disrespective to Howe by saying his current success is due primarily to money. He has made Schar, Linton, Almiron, Longstaffe, Murphy into very good and consistent PL players and they were already at the club. In a relatively short period Howe took Bournemouth from the fourth pillar of the League to the PL, and kept them there for 5 years, at times with a transfer embargo at the club. We must also appreciate he was with us 20 months as opposed to over a decade, as per Dyche, and you can achieve a lot more in 10 years than 20 months. You must remember too that Howe brought us Ings, Mee, Trippier, Austin in a short period, for a total sum under £3m, in my mind some of the best players we have seen between 2011 and 2022.

[Pearcey]

If you read my post above you will see I state that I am not sure Howe could have got more out of the current Everton team than Dyche, but maybe would have experimented more where it warranted.Sometimes by being honest and balanced ,people regard this as being "disrespective to SD". By the same gesture, its easy to be disrespective to Howe by saying his current success is due primarily to money. He has made Schar, Linton, Almiron, Longstaffe, Murphy into very good and consistent PL players and they were already at the club. In a relatively short period Howe took Bournemouth from the fourth pillar of the League to the PL, and kept them there for 5 years, at times with a transfer embargo at the club. We must also appreciate he was with us 20 months as opposed to over a decade, as per Dyche, and you can achieve a lot more in 10 years than 20 months. You must remember too that Howe brought us Ings, Mee, Trippier, Austin in a short period, for a total sum under £3m, in my mind some of the best players we have seen between 2011 and 2022.

Wasn’t a dig at you Warks. Don’t forget the backing Howe got at Bournemouth. He nicked players from the likes of Norwich because of the financial clout he had.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Wasn’t a dig at you Warks. Don’t forget the backing Howe got at Bournemouth. He nicked players from the likes of Norwich because of the financial clout he had.

You can't mention that, you have to follow the media's narrative that it was a fairytale story against the odds etc

[Jakubclaret]

I'm not sure how it's comparable, 1 man having vast resources at his disposal & 1 man having hardly anything & scratting about trying to make a do, surely any meaningful comparison should be based on level ground it's impossible any other way.

[Devils_Advocate]

You can't mention that, you have to follow the media's narrative that it was a fairytale story against the odds etc

Or alternatively follow your narrative that it was all down to money. Taking a club from 92nd to the Premier League is a pretty amazing achievement with or without money.

The wage bills of our Championship winning team under Dyche and Bournemouth's Championship winning team was about the same except a lot more money was spent acquiring or players than that of Bournemouth so if you think what Dyche did in 15/16 was impressive then you also need to give Howe some credit to.

Worth noting that 2 or 3 years into their Premier League stint they still had about 4 or 5 players regularly in the squad and often starting that they had back in League 1 which shows Howe's talent at improving players in the way he has done with some of the players up at Newcastle

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Or alternatively follow your narrative that it was all down to money. Taking a club from 92nd to the Premier League is a pretty amazing achievement with or without money.

The wage bills of our Championship winning team under Dyche and Bournemouth's Championship winning team was about the same except a lot more money was spent acquiring or players than that of Bournemouth so if you think what Dyche did in 15/16 was impressive then you also need to give Howe some credit to.

Worth noting that 2 or 3 years into their Premier League stint they still had about 4 or 5 players regularly in the squad and often starting that they had back in League 1 which shows Howe's talent at improving players in the way he has done with some of the players up at Newcastle

Calm your nips

I'm well aware of the work Howe has done over the years to improve players.
I've also stated before that the work he did here in clearing out the disruptive senior players was key to laying down the foundations for Dyche to do what he did here.

I'm not going to ignore the fact Bournemouth needed bank rolling to get into the PL though, I never have and never will.
The media love in was downright bizarre because they were more than willing to overlook it.

[Devils_Advocate]

Calm your nips

I'm well aware of the work Howe has done over the years to improve players.
I've also stated before that the work he did here in clearing out the disruptive senior players was key to laying down the foundations for Dyche to do what he did here.

I'm not going to ignore the fact Bournemouth needed bank rolling to get into the PL though, I never have and never will.
The media love in was downright bizarre because they were more than willing to overlook it.

Course a small club like Bournemouth are going to need bankrolling to get from the bottom league to the top but what Howe achieved with the money at his disposal (regardless where it came from) was impressive and I think the media reaction was about fair considering a club went from 92nd to the the top league in about 7 seasons.

Just making the point that you always pipe up when Howe is mentioned to remind everyone Bournemouth spent money so if you gonna go on about narratives start with your own

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Course a small club like Bournemouth are going to need bankrolling to get from the bottom league to the top but what Howe achieved with the money at his disposal (regardless where it came from) was impressive and I think the media reaction was about fair considering a club went from 92nd to the the top league in about 7 seasons.

Just making the point that you always pipe up when Howe is mentioned to remind everyone Bournemouth spent money so if you gonna go on about narratives start with your own

Ok sweetheart, whatever you want to claim.

[Billyblah]

Steve Stone especially. Seemed to a catalyst to our demise.

Surely just a fairly small cog in Mike Garlicks short lived empire?

[Billyblah]

I think it’s a fair observation that the Pl has moved beyond Dyche given his horrific record over the last 2 1/2 years as a PL manager. Did we win just twice (Brentford and Everton) in his last season here? He must have managed close to 30 games too before MJ took over.

No matter how you dress it up, the football is really miserable and makes fans hate watching their own team play. People say it’s all about results but judging by our attendances, fans want more.

A horrific record maybe yet we have quickly forgotten that during that last two and a half years there was a chronic under investment in the first team squad. Mike Garlicks last signings included Danny Drinkbeer and that old fogey from Brighton whose name escapes me.
By the time Alan Pace was in place the damage was done with the club having to pick itself up and dust itself off before any progression could be made.

[KRBFC]

A horrific record maybe yet we have quickly forgotten that during that last two and a half years there was a chronic under investment in the first team squad. Mike Garlicks last signings included Danny Drinkbeer and that old fogey from Brighton whose name escapes me.
By the time Alan Pace was in place the damage was done with the club having to pick itself up and dust itself off before any progression could be made.

Dyche chose to sign Dale Stephens, who cost the club more over the length of his contract than Josh Cullen has. Dyche had the opportunity to sell Tarkowski and others to reinvest in the squad and refresh it, he declined that opportunity.

[KRBFC]

Course a small club like Bournemouth are going to need bankrolling to get from the bottom league to the top but what Howe achieved with the money at his disposal (regardless where it came from) was impressive and I think the media reaction was about fair considering a club went from 92nd to the the top league in about 7 seasons.

Just making the point that you always pipe up when Howe is mentioned to remind everyone Bournemouth spent money so if you gonna go on about narratives start with your own

Weird when people say Bournemouth were bankrolled but get angry when facts are twisted about Burnley’s spending to achieve promotions. Flood and Kilby bankrupted the club and gambled on promotion, completely reckless and left us under a transfer embargo because we bent rules on spending by not paying part of Eagles instalments. Dyches wage bill was about the same as Bournemouths in the second promotion and we had a £9m forward the rest of the division couldn’t afford. Kompany has spent £40m on new players, probably same as the rest of the division combined.

I don’t discredit our promotions because of those facts, there are reasons VK had to spend to replace outgoings and if the club has money, what is wrong with spending it to help achieve goals?


it’s plain stupid to discredit Howe and Bournemouth who really didn’t spend that much. Was their record signing not Toekele Rantie the South African flop for £3m?

[warksclaret]

Or alternatively follow your narrative that it was all down to money. Taking a club from 92nd to the Premier League is a pretty amazing achievement with or without money.

The wage bills of our Championship winning team under Dyche and Bournemouth's Championship winning team was about the same except a lot more money was spent acquiring or players than that of Bournemouth so if you think what Dyche did in 15/16 was impressive then you also need to give Howe some credit to.

Worth noting that 2 or 3 years into their Premier League stint they still had about 4 or 5 players regularly in the squad and often starting that they had back in League 1 which shows Howe's talent at improving players in the way he has done with some of the players up at Newcastle

Some very good points DA. I also saw what Howe did with Stanislas when he took him to Bournemouth, and he was very good for a couple of seasons including the PL games where he scored some great goals, whereas he could barely get into Dyche's Championship starting 11

[Shaggy]

I don’t understand why people get angry at pointing out dyches major flaws ( he has many, most Evertonians have similar views about him already )

Dyche is trying to emulate Brian Clough in that he has a basic tactic but most of his work is around the group character and motivation. His tactical acumen is very limited. It’s also why he is very limited in the transfer market, the player needs to be of a certain character to fit in with Dyche. Look at the problems he’s having at Everton just now with Michael Keane and the fact he has much better players on the bench.

Howe is a lot more expressive tactically than Dyche and he has an eye for a player. It didn’t work out for us as I think we were too big a job too soon for him. He went back to familiar pastures and built up from there.

There’s no question that Howe is the better of the 2 and he will go on to have a much better career. I’d put my house in it.

[warksclaret]

I don’t understand why people get angry at pointing out dyches major flaws ( he has many, most Evertonians have similar views about him already )

Dyche is trying to emulate Brian Clough in that he has a basic tactic but most of his work is around the group character and motivation. His tactical acumen is very limited. It’s also why he is very limited in the transfer market, the player needs to be of a certain character to fit in with Dyche. Look at the problems he’s having at Everton just now with Michael Keane and the fact he has much better players on the bench.

Howe is a lot more expressive tactically than Dyche and he has an eye for a player. It didn’t work out for us as I think we were too big a job too soon for him. He went back to familiar pastures and built up from there.

There’s no question that Howe is the better of the 2 and he will go on to have a much better career. I’d put my house in it.

And whats winding up the Everton fans is his loyalty to certain out of form players, and stubborness to change, or make early subs when Everton are trailing or being outplayed. Keane was dropped by Lampard as he was playing badly. When Dyche arrived he played Coady/Tarks in the first 4 games getting 2 wins and 2 defeats including an Arsenal win.In those 4 games they conceded 4 goals and kept 2 clean sheets. Then for some reason Coady was dropped and Keane brought in. In those 10 games since its been Keane/Tarks, and in 10 games kept 2 clean sheets and won one game, with 20 goals conceded. Also Keane has given away 2 penalties. As I said in an earlier post I will be surprised if Dyche changes things for the Brighton game. Unlike Burnley he does some decent choices on the bench and within the squad

[Jakubclaret]

And whats winding up the Everton fans is his loyalty to certain out of form players, and stubborness to change, or make early subs when Everton are trailing or being outplayed. Keane was dropped by Lampard as he was playing badly. When Dyche arrived he played Coady/Tarks in the first 4 games getting 2 wins and 2 defeats including an Arsenal win.In those 4 games they conceded 4 goals and kept 2 clean sheets. Then for some reason Coady was dropped and Keane brought in. In those 10 games since its been Keane/Tarks, and in 10 games kept 2 clean sheets and won one game, with 20 goals conceded. Also Keane has given away 2 penalties. As I said in an earlier post I will be surprised if Dyche changes things for the Brighton game. Unlike Burnley he does some decent choices on the bench and within the squad

That lot will never be happy whatever you do, every single manager I can recall they've hounded out in some shape or form, you could put neymar & messi on the field playing for them they'd find some reason to moan, Keane offers more of a goal threat & for a side short on goals that's the thinking, they weren't moaning when he started the comeback against palace in the penultimate game last season or when he salvaged an unexpected point against Tottenham late on, coady can't belt the ball the same.

[BurnleyFC]

Eddie Howe couldn’t have done what Sean Dyche did at Burnley, but likewise, Sean Dyche couldn’t have done what Eddie Howe did at Bournemouth.

In the end, they both left huge legacies at their respective clubs but it was also the right time for them to both leave those clubs when they did.

[Jakubclaret]

Eddie Howe couldn’t have done what Sean Dyche did at Burnley, but likewise, Sean Dyche couldn’t have done what Eddie Howe did at Bournemouth.

In the end, they both left huge legacies at their respective clubs but it was also the right time for them to both leave those clubs when they did.

More or less spot on (doubts over dyche pending survival) both were equally good managers doing what their did, kind of proves itself that both are still employable & well respected within the game by people not just associated with Burnley.