ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon May 15, 2023 3:26 pm

He bent in to the top corner from 20 yards out in a game that had had zero chances, and that they were desperate not to lose, and we were desperate to win (and that effected both teams performances)

To do that from there, given the context of the match and its importance (every single Rovers and Burnley fan will never forget that we won the league at Ewood Park), it should be winning this by an absolute mile

IMHO of course!

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by boyyanno » Mon May 15, 2023 3:39 pm

martin_p wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 3:05 pm
But the ‘best’ goal shouldn’t be ‘in light of those things’. That makes it about the moment not the goal.
According to who?

Some people will think a team goal that has 30 passes is the best. Some people will think a screamer from 35 yards is the best. Some people will think that a volley or acrobatic finish is the best. Some people will think that a long run before a goal will make it the best. Some people think that a goal in a high pressure game is the best.

Every single person who votes does so on a criteria that they themselves decide make it the "best" goal, and no one is wrong or right.
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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by dsr » Mon May 15, 2023 3:49 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 2:35 pm
I'm saying it's winning because of where, when and against who it was scored against.
I'm sure you're right. Context matters. It can be argued that Benson's QPR goal (for example) was better, but on the other hand Benson's QPR goal earned us zilch while Benson's Ewood goal clinched the title, beat the rivals, won the league, maintained bragging rights, and will be shown on Burnley TV sets for a million years to come. (Or thereabouts.)

Having said which, my winner is another one not on the list! Zaroury's double nutmeg at Bournemouth! What a set of goals we had.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by ClaretTony » Mon May 15, 2023 4:02 pm

dsr wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 3:49 pm
I'm sure you're right. Context matters. It can be argued that Benson's QPR goal (for example) was better, but on the other hand Benson's QPR goal earned us zilch while Benson's Ewood goal clinched the title, beat the rivals, won the league, maintained bragging rights, and will be shown on Burnley TV sets for a million years to come. (Or thereabouts.)

Having said which, my winner is another one not on the list! Zaroury's double nutmeg at Bournemouth! What a set of goals we had.
There were so many in the league, we opted to leave out the cup goals.
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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by Boss Hogg » Mon May 15, 2023 4:04 pm

I would have gone for Zaroury at Bournemouth if one of the options. Benson at Bristol was probably the best of his 4 in a row as he was tightly marked, They knew what he would try and do and he still found space and an accurate shot from a tight angle.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by martin_p » Mon May 15, 2023 4:17 pm

boyyanno wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 3:39 pm
According to who?

Some people will think a team goal that has 30 passes is the best. Some people will think a screamer from 35 yards is the best. Some people will think that a volley or acrobatic finish is the best. Some people will think that a long run before a goal will make it the best. Some people think that a goal in a high pressure game is the best.

Every single person who votes does so on a criteria that they themselves decide make it the "best" goal, and no one is wrong or right.
According to me, clearly!

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Mon May 15, 2023 4:23 pm

When the prem season is done I wonder if the goal of the season will be selected from a selection of top finishes or will it include the goal that wins City the league or the goal that keeps a team up due to it's meaning or will it be what this should have been the best goal of the season.

Some really do like to make things hardwork

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by dsr » Mon May 15, 2023 4:32 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 4:23 pm
When the prem season is done I wonder if the goal of the season will be selected from a selection of top finishes or will it include the goal that wins City the league or the goal that keeps a team up due to it's meaning or will it be what this should have been the best goal of the season.

Some really do like to make things hardwork
I think you might be slightly missing the point here. Yes, all else being equal, blasting the goal into the top corner from three yards outside the corner of the box is a harder skill than doing it from only two yards outside. But context matters.

Some of of choose to decide that doing it in a high pressure environment against a small but passionate crowd where the league title is on the line against a team that is fighting desperately for a play-off place, is harder than doing it when both sides' position is set and neither is under pressure.

It's not as if Benson's goal was a bit so-so. Perhaps you wouldn't put it on your shortlist, but plenty of others would. If (for example) the winner at Blackburn had been the goal Cullen scored at Stoke, then it wouldn't be winning this poll.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by martin_p » Mon May 15, 2023 4:40 pm

dsr wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 4:32 pm
I think you might be slightly missing the point here. Yes, all else being equal, blasting the goal into the top corner from three yards outside the corner of the box is a harder skill than doing it from only two yards outside. But context matters.

Some of of choose to decide that doing it in a high pressure environment against a small but passionate crowd where the league title is on the line against a team that is fighting desperately for a play-off place, is harder than doing it when both sides' position is set and neither is under pressure.

It's not as if Benson's goal was a bit so-so. Perhaps you wouldn't put it on your shortlist, but plenty of others would. If (for example) the winner at Blackburn had been the goal Cullen scored at Stoke, then it wouldn't be winning this poll.
I don’t think we were under much pressure at all at Ewood. Great that we officially won it there but we’d have won it anyway and everyone knew that. I’d argue that goals earlier in the season were higher pressure situations.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by dsr » Mon May 15, 2023 4:48 pm

martin_p wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 4:40 pm
I don’t think we were under much pressure at all at Ewood. Great that we officially won it there but we’d have won it anyway and everyone knew that. I’d argue that goals earlier in the season were higher pressure situations.
Perfectly valid argument. Which is the whole point, of course.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by boyyanno » Mon May 15, 2023 4:49 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 4:23 pm
When the prem season is done I wonder if the goal of the season will be selected from a selection of top finishes or will it include the goal that wins City the league or the goal that keeps a team up due to it's meaning or will it be what this should have been the best goal of the season.

Some really do like to make things hardwork
Fair enough, if its that simple can you let me know the criteria for "best goal"?

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by OffTheBar » Mon May 15, 2023 5:03 pm

I actually thought his one at Bristol was the ‘worst’ of his four.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by Hibsclaret » Mon May 15, 2023 5:20 pm

There’s a lot of missing the point here. It would be nice to just have a poll where views are respected. The poll results will accurately reflect the best goal from the majority which is the point.

The goal at Bristol was an absolute cracker in essentially a friendly match. The goal at Ewood you could argue was similar, and technically slightly easier, but in a match of far greater significance. There is also arguments that Zaroury’s at Sunderland was in a game we had struggled in and having been 2 down was a key pressure goal.

The point of a poll is to allow opinions and there is absolutely no need for comments along the lines of ‘not even Benson’s best goal’ or ‘wouldn’t be in the top 5’ etc. which given the context is absolute nonsense and why around 1 in 2 votes are for the goal when there are 19 others to pick from.
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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by martin_p » Mon May 15, 2023 5:28 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 5:20 pm
There’s a lot of missing the point here. It would be nice to just have a poll where views are respected. The poll results will accurately reflect the best goal from the majority which is the point.

The goal at Bristol was an absolute cracker in essentially a friendly match. The goal at Ewood you could argue was similar, and technically slightly easier, but in a match of far greater significance. There is also arguments that Zaroury’s at Sunderland was in a game we had struggled in and having been 2 down was a key pressure goal.

The point of a poll is to allow opinions and there is absolutely no need for comments along the lines of ‘not even Benson’s best goal’ or ‘wouldn’t be in the top 5’ etc. which given the context is absolute nonsense and why around 1 in 2 votes are for the goal when there are 19 others to pick from.
In what sense is ‘not even Benson’s best goal’ not an opinion?

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by Hibsclaret » Mon May 15, 2023 5:34 pm

It is and you’re entitled to it. Most would disagree with the opinion.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue May 16, 2023 7:58 am

boyyanno wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 4:49 pm
Fair enough, if its that simple can you let me know the criteria for "best goal"?

Do you think the Barnes header against Blackburn is the 3rd "best" goal we have scored this season ?

This goal has currently received the 3rd most votes probabaly something like 49% of votes for shoving the keeper / 49% because of who it is against / 2% possibly think it is the 3rd best goal

If you think yes - then there is no point trying to explain

If you think no - then there is no need to explain

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by Culmclaret » Tue May 16, 2023 8:32 am

At least we are bickering about picking the best goal in an amazing season rather than whether Neil Grewcock’s goal against Orient should come above Ashley Hoskin’s at Swansea…..

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by claptrappers_union » Tue May 16, 2023 8:34 am

There are many goals technically better, but it's Ashley Barnes’ first v Blackburn is mine.

Barnes was the forgotten man, with fans rolling their eyes when he started in place of an injured Jay Rodriguez. He tore Blackburn apart that day.

The pinpoint cross, the powerful header, the Turf exploding, the keeper being pushed into the net - it confirmed that we were the real deal as we were going top of the league.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by Hibsclaret » Tue May 16, 2023 8:38 am

Or perhaps the Barnes goal scored so high because it was scored by a perfect connection to the best cross we played all season in a game of relevance.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by claptrappers_union » Tue May 16, 2023 8:58 am

I'd not read the whole thread, but Goals are about the context.

Take Robbie Blake's goal v Man Utd... He's scored miles better than that, but scoring our first Premier League goal against the Champions makes it a great goal.

The greatest goals have something more about them - Rooney's overhead kick v Man Utd, or VK’s pile driver v Leicester, would instead be filed under Peter Crouch’s v Man City if those goals were scored against Aston Villa in October and archived for Premier League Year's on Sky

But it's about opinion. Sometimes it is about skill and ability when it comes to choosing, but this season, I took different factors into account. For me, sometimes there more to it than it being a beauty.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by Hibsclaret » Tue May 16, 2023 9:02 am

claptrappers_union wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 8:58 am
I'd not read the whole thread, but Goals are about the context.

Take Robbie Blake's goal v Man Utd... He's scored miles better than that, but scoring our first Premier League goal against the Champions makes it a great goal.

The greatest goals have something more about them - Rooney's overhead kick v Man Utd, or VK’s pile driver v Leicester, would instead be filed under Peter Crouch’s v Man City if those goals were scored against Aston Villa in October and archived for Premier League Year's on Sky

But it's about opinion. Sometimes it is about skill and ability when it comes to choosing, but this season, I took different factors into account. For me, sometimes there more to it than it being a beauty.
Couldn’t agree more. Quite ironic that people voting for the best technical goal of the season in a dead rubber can’t accept that their view is not shared by the masses.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by claptrappers_union » Tue May 16, 2023 9:08 am

Hibsclaret wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 9:02 am
Couldn’t agree more. Quite ironic that people voting for the best technical goal of the season in a dead rubber can’t accept that their view is not shared by the masses.
It's like Jay Rods v Chelsea a couple of years ago. A thing of beauty but in the end, it was just a consolation. He didn't even celebrate it and the ground was half empty too. If it had been an equalizer it would be burned into our retinas for decades to come.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by boyyanno » Tue May 16, 2023 1:29 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 7:58 am
Do you think the Barnes header against Blackburn is the 3rd "best" goal we have scored this season ?

This goal has currently received the 3rd most votes probabaly something like 49% of votes for shoving the keeper / 49% because of who it is against / 2% possibly think it is the 3rd best goal

If you think yes - then there is no point trying to explain

If you think no - then there is no need to explain
Ahhh I see, you can't answer the question so chose not too.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by boyyanno » Tue May 16, 2023 1:35 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 8:58 am
I'd not read the whole thread, but Goals are about the context.

Take Robbie Blake's goal v Man Utd... He's scored miles better than that, but scoring our first Premier League goal against the Champions makes it a great goal.

The greatest goals have something more about them - Rooney's overhead kick v Man Utd, or VK’s pile driver v Leicester, would instead be filed under Peter Crouch’s v Man City if those goals were scored against Aston Villa in October and archived for Premier League Year's on Sky

But it's about opinion. Sometimes it is about skill and ability when it comes to choosing, but this season, I took different factors into account. For me, sometimes there more to it than it being a beauty.
Exactly this.

The best goal I've ever seen Is one that Shearer scored in a friendly for England against Portugal in 98. I rate it so highly because it was a long bouncing ball that he volleys in, but what makes it so spectacular for me is the fact that he has 20 yards of free space infront of him and he still elects to smash the volley in. The audacity and confidence to do that just amazes me every time I watch it.

Would people say it's better than Di Canios? Probably not, but for the reasons above to me it is just as good.

That's the thing though, some people on here are open to other people's views. Sadly some aren't.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by Roosterbooster » Tue May 16, 2023 1:45 pm

I think there are plenty of people who accept that their best goal will differ from other peoples' best goal. Opinions are opinions (otherwise CT would just decide for himself amd the vote would be pointless)

And that plenty of people understand that context is important - very important

But there are also people who think an opinion can be swayed disproportionately by the context. Barnes got MOM against Cardiff. He could have played like he did against Sunderland away, and would still have won MOM. I'm fine with that. But I don't think its unreasonable to suggest this is also happening with this vote. Let's be honest, had Barnes scored a scrappy tap in to win the league at Ewood, that'd probably be in the top 10, and maybe even higher.

It's not people disregarding others' opinions, it's suggesting that context plays more heavily in the assessment than others think it should do. And that's my opinion. Saying that's not valid is pretty hypocritical

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by claptrappers_union » Tue May 16, 2023 2:37 pm

We'll go with the Puskas criteria next season

Award criteria

It should be an absolutely beautiful goal (subjective, but decided by voting and judgement from experts — the spread of goals should include long-range shots, team goals, rabona, overhead kicks, individual plays, scorpion kicks, etc.)
It should be awarded "without distinction of championship, gender or nationality"
It should not be the result of luck, mistakes, or deflection by another player or the player in an offside position.
It should support fair play, i.e. the player should not have behaved badly in the game or have been charged with doping, for example.
The player cannot be nominated with two different goals.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by claptrappers_union » Tue May 16, 2023 2:55 pm

Roosterbooster wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 1:45 pm
But there are also people who think an opinion can be swayed disproportionately by the context. Barnes got MOM against Cardiff. He could have played like he did against Sunderland away, and would still have won MOM. I'm fine with that. But I don't think its unreasonable to suggest this is also happening with this vote. Let's be honest, had Barnes scored a scrappy tap-in to win the league at Ewood, that'd probably be in the top 10, and maybe even higher.
I slightly disagree; Barnes' first against Blackburn was a good goal; any goal in a Lancashire derby is highly regarded. There's so much more to a goal than the ball crossing the line... but I get what you mean.

Take Scott Arfields against Blackburn, it's a good goal, but if it were against Barnsley, it wouldn't be remembered as fondly. Still, the goal is well taken after a long punt into the box and some head tennis, but what makes it special is a lonesome Blackburn fan coming back from the toilet and celebrating and then realising he was celebrating a Burnley goal and attempts to disguise it by flashing a V sign instead (look for him coming the exit gate behind the goal) and the team celebration of all the players running to the away end. That's the type of stuff I like to take into account as well, other than just the team of the player's individual skill.

I wonder if Benson had scored that open goal if that would win the best goal... it would've been the topper to everything, especially after Barnes blocked their attempt with his arm after all the Rover's pressure. The fans would've gone wild, which would've been the standout moment of the game and maybe the goal of the season... with the ball bouncing into an empty net.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by Rick_Muller » Tue May 16, 2023 3:15 pm

Barnes 1st goal against Rovers evoked such deep emotions within me because of the context of the game. The outpouring of unreserved joy and happiness in me and those around me are what make that goal “great”. Technically it was also so well taken and the cross was so accurate that Barnes only had to be there and smash it in, then follow up into the net with the keeper.

It wasn’t just a good goal, it was a great goal.

But not as great as Benson’s at Ewood. That was another level again, but I suppose you had to be there (and I was)

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed May 17, 2023 8:13 am

boyyanno wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 1:29 pm
Ahhh I see, you can't answer the question so chose not too.

Using your logic I have re-thought my goal of the season and gone for Dervisoglu against Rotherham.

Granted it was a toe poke from a few yards out but it was in the 100th minute of normal time virtually the last kick of the game and those extra 2 points meant we finished on over 100 points.

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Re: ARTICLE: Choose your goal of the 2022/23 season

Post by boyyanno » Wed May 17, 2023 8:19 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Wed May 17, 2023 8:13 am
Using your logic I have re-thought my goal of the season and gone for Dervisoglu against Rotherham.

Granted it was a toe poke from a few yards out but it was in the 100th minute of normal time virtually the last kick of the game and those extra 2 points meant we finished on over 100 points.
I see, you still can't answer the question :lol: must be really simple...

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