Real Betis v Burnley (pre-season friendly) Match thread

[Spiral]

The Cork of a few years ago would have covered the ground needed to anticipate a phase of play, but he does the fouls these days because he's chasing a wee bit, and he's chasing rather than anticipating because he's not the runner he used to be. Happens to everyone, but it's more noticeable in a midfielder where play is 360 degrees all around them. Good squad player, he will do better when fresh against tired opponents for the last 20 mins, but we need more energetic players to start games.

[Belgianclaret]

Some good stuff but clearly in the buildup stage. Although we were chasing the win at the end.

Foster was lively but needs to be more clinical in front of goal

[fatboy47]

Good to hear that Twine & Foster had good games. Bodes well for the starting 11 and competition for places

Foster in particular played well..this lad is going to raise a few eyebrows in the Prem believe me.

[Boss Hogg]

Still early days and match spoilt a bit with the sendings off. Foster, Twine and Koleosho the stand outs with Beyer good as usual. Will be interesting to see the line up v Mainz. The last friendly normally gives an idea of the system and line up we will use.

[Hedontplayforyou]

I think Al Dakeel could play the midfield role that Corks legs can’t quite do any more
Just think with the CH we have that Al Dakeel could step up and I think he’s a tiny bit too aggressive in and around the box for the Premier League & VAR

Against Benfica Al-Dakhil was fantastic in the press from right back and also moving into midfield

[spt_claret]

Even though the camera wasn't on him once, you can just tell he was fuming

And Roberts telling him all game that he's on and you're on the bench won't have helped either - just a shame the camera never caught that, cos I;m sure it was happening all game

A mate who's godson's mate's dad was there says he heard Weghorst shout "SNAP HIS LEG OFF" at Gudmundsson before he lashed out.
His mate's sister's boyfriend's aunt's cousin says Weghorst was saying it to the Betis player to free up a squad space for himself.

[Spiral]

Based on form, and if Cullen is fit (I'm just gonna assume Benny is not fit) I'd go this team for Mainz and see how it looks.

Muric
Roberts O'Shea Beyer Al-Dakhil
Cullen
Townsend Twine Brownhill
Amdouni
Foster

I can totally see a 50/50 split of games between Ekdal and O'Shea or Ekdal and Ameen. I don't think Ekdal starts every game, but I think he'll be called on a lot. Based on pre-season form the players that look to me like 'best of their position' are the back four as above plus Muric, Townsend and Foster. We're yet to see Cullen within this exact configuration, but he's still the first name on the team sheet when fit, so we've got 8 almost nailed on. That means we've got three positions that could be filled by any three of Brownhill, JBG (ignoring the red card for a moment), Zaroury, Amdouni, Twine, Benny, Jay, Wout (if he stays) and the newer lads — Koleosho and Larsen.

[Spiral]

Oh, and Redmond too. And we have Obafemi to come back later in the season.

When you look at it like this, the positions that look most vital to sign are LB and CDM. I think we're well stocked for attacking players.

[spt_claret]

Very, very early days, so perhaps I'm being unfair, but it's a bit concerning how quiet Amdouni has been in the admittedly short amount of time he's had. Suppose he'll grow into it, but I may have to reassess my expectations a bit. Thought that with the fee and his pedigree he'd make an immediate impact. You can see immediately what O'Shea and Koleosho bring to the table, and it's good to see Townsend looking fit and hungry. He'll be a good signing.

Far too soon to say with Amdouni, still not sure if the role he's playing is the role he's mostly played (even if he has played it before), and he was on a bad pitch against a rough team here, and only had limited minutes elsewhere. I think his performances (and, unfortunately, probably Townsend's) are the definition of 'preseason is meaningless'.

Here’s the million dollar question -

Who would you start at centre half week one?

I literally can’t split them.. bar perhaps Beyer just for his ability to drive us up the pitch coming out of defense.

Some dilemma to have

Beyer/Ekdal everytime. Best pairing IMO last season, best two individuals (although Al Dakhil's eventual ceiling will be higher than Ekdal's).
Muric looks so much more composed behind Ekdal too. He's got the Ben Mee effect about him.
Or possibly move Beyer into CDM, he has the running and ball ability for it. Just a diamond of a player, he's like some hybrid of Beckenbauer & Lahm (not to get carried away!!)

[Quickenthetempo]

I think Jack knows what he is doing and doesn't need coaching

He's openly spoke about Vinny asking him to take the yellow cards in them situations.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Based on form, and if Cullen is fit (I'm just gonna assume Benny is not fit) I'd go this team for Mainz and see how it looks.

Muric
Roberts O'Shea Beyer Al-Dakhil
Cullen
Townsend Twine Brownhill
Amdouni
Foster

I can totally see a 50/50 split of games between Ekdal and O'Shea or Ekdal and Ameen. I don't think Ekdal starts every game, but I think he'll be called on a lot. Based on pre-season form the players that look to me like 'best of their position' are the back four as above plus Muric, Townsend and Foster. We're yet to see Cullen within this exact configuration, but he's still the first name on the team sheet when fit, so we've got 8 almost nailed on. That means we've got three positions that could be filled by any three of Brownhill, JBG (ignoring the red card for a moment), Zaroury, Amdouni, Twine, Benny, Jay, Wout (if he stays) and the newer lads — Koleosho and Larsen.

I see it looking more like the below:

Trafford
Roberts, Ekdal, Beyer, Taylor
Cullen, Cork,
Twine, Amdouni, Zaroury
Foster

[Hurstwood_Claret]

what kind of idiot gets a Red in a friendly?

Johan Berg Gudmundsson

[spt_claret]

I see it looking more like the below:

Trafford
Roberts, Ekdal, Beyer, Taylor
Cullen, Cork,
Twine, Amdouni, Zaroury
Foster

I'd be starting Benny if he's fit, and I'd put Gudmundsson or Brownhill over Cork.
Would definitely want to see Twine getting minutes though but more as a sub for Amdouni, he's so good at 360 movement and finding space in the centre.

[RVclaret]

Based on form, and if Cullen is fit (I'm just gonna assume Benny is not fit) I'd go this team for Mainz and see how it looks.

Muric
Roberts O'Shea Beyer Al-Dakhil
Cullen
Townsend Twine Brownhill
Amdouni
Foster

I can totally see a 50/50 split of games between Ekdal and O'Shea or Ekdal and Ameen. I don't think Ekdal starts every game, but I think he'll be called on a lot. Based on pre-season form the players that look to me like 'best of their position' are the back four as above plus Muric, Townsend and Foster. We're yet to see Cullen within this exact configuration, but he's still the first name on the team sheet when fit, so we've got 8 almost nailed on. That means we've got three positions that could be filled by any three of Brownhill, JBG (ignoring the red card for a moment), Zaroury, Amdouni, Twine, Benny, Jay, Wout (if he stays) and the newer lads — Koleosho and Larsen.

Zaroury has to start wide left in that team, otherwise there’s too much congestion on that side with Brownhill and Al-Dakhil drifting centrally. So replace Twine (I see as a sub for now) for Brownhill, Zaroury left and I’m in agreement with the rest of it.

[CoolClaret]

Beyer/Ekdal everytime. Best pairing IMO last season, best two individuals (although Al Dakhil's eventual ceiling will be higher than Ekdal's).
Muric looks so much more composed behind Ekdal too. He's got the Ben Mee effect about him.
Or possibly move Beyer into CDM, he has the running and ball ability for it. Just a diamond of a player, he's like some hybrid of Beckenbauer & Lahm (not to get carried away!!)

I’d probably be leaning to Beyer/Ekdal as well but I’ve been mightily impressed with O’Shea so far as well and I think Ameen is absolutely mustard.

Good problem to have!

[boatshed bill]

He's openly spoke about Vinny asking him to take the yellow cards in them situations.

That's surprising....
or is it? Who used to do that for Man City, was it Fernandinho?

[Steddyman]

I'm not sure we really need that in the PL.
Foster worked really hard tonight, I'm not sure we can afford a CF who spends the majority of his time on the half-way line.

Weggy doesn't do that though. He is very aggressive in his play, and frequently feeds other players. He will be required in some games.

[Longsider]

Thought Twine looked strong. Foster for me was excellent. Strong and Hungry. He will score and create goals. Ekdal was very good. UTC

[spt_claret]

I’d probably be leaning to Beyer/Ekdal as well but I’ve been mightily impressed with O’Shea so far as well and I think Ameen is absolutely mustard.

Good problem to have!

Definitely is. Can see either of those playing leftback honestly.
Dakhil's rise has been meteoric. From unknown signed in January, to Belgian international and now a viable contender for any position along the back 4.
We've been absurdly blessed with centre backs for the past 10 years. When Shackell & Duff are bottom of the list you know you've had it good.

[boatshed bill]

Weggy doesn't do that though. He is very aggressive in his play, and frequently feeds other players. He will be required in some games.

I guess that all depends if we keep him
FWIW, I don't think he's quick enough to receive the ball deep, spread play, and get on the end of the move he's started.
Time will tell, I suppose.

[Spiral]

Or possibly move Beyer into CDM, he has the running and ball ability for it. Just a diamond of a player, he's like some hybrid of Beckenbauer & Lahm (not to get carried away!!)

Interesting you mention Lahm. He was one of the first players of a very high profile that I remember Pep converting to CDM. Was always a fullback, then Pep confused everyone by playing him in front of the defence. Pep has been repurposing defenders (and repurposing midfielders to play in defence) for the best part of a decade now. Looking at Roberts (and how Al-Dakhil v Benfica), we're the lucky inheritors of this it seems. Vinnie going beyond historical and conventional player roles is just a fact of our playstyle these days.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Ekdal tickles my fancy something chronic

[spt_claret]

Interesting you mention Lahm. He was one of the first players of a very high profile that I remember Pep converting to CDM. Was always a fullback, then Pep confused everyone by playing him in front of the defence. Pep has been repurposing defenders (and repurposing midfielders to play in defence) for the best part of a decade now. Looking at Roberts (and how Al-Dakhil v Benfica), we're the lucky inheritors of this it seems. Vinnie going beyond historical and conventional player roles is just a fact of our playstyle these days.

To be fair there's been fans ahead of the game on this one- 'Duff as Striker' and 'Tarkowski as CDM' anyone?
Also Grezza made that exact transition under Coyle, as did Bikey, and he also converted Elliott to a CM, but I wouldn't call Coyle a purveyor of Guardiolissimo or Total Football.

I loved Lahm, one of my alltime favourite players. One of the best right backs AND left backs of all time, a very capable CDM and I seem to remember him filling in at CB on occasion. It's actually one of the things the Fifa/Football Manager generation's approach is good for- thinking in terms of a player's qualities and attributes, and how that fits into a system around them, rather than just the position they're used to playing.

[CoolClaret]

Interesting you mention Lahm. He was one of the first players of a very high profile that I remember Pep converting to CDM. Was always a fullback, then Pep confused everyone by playing him in front of the defence. Pep has been repurposing defenders (and repurposing midfielders to play in defence) for the best part of a decade now. Looking at Roberts (and how Al-Dakhil v Benfica), we're the lucky inheritors of this it seems. Vinnie going beyond historical and conventional player roles is just a fact of our playstyle these days.

Worth mentioning that Lahm is possibly the most underrated football player of all time.

People know that he was decent but I don’t think people truly know just how good he was.

Shame that he didn’t play in England at any one point.. ridiculous player.

[Spiral]

Zaroury has to start wide left in that team, otherwise there’s too much congestion on that side with Brownhill and Al-Dakhil drifting centrally. So replace Twine (I see as a sub for now) for Brownhill, Zaroury left and I’m in agreement with the rest of it.

I'm envisioning Amdouni more as a Rashford type, coming in from wide to central attacking positions rather than playing as a traditional No10 behind the striker or a winger like Zaroury, but that's only based on highlights I've seen of him and the one or two moments in these last few games where he took up those not-wide-but-not-central-either positions. I could be wrong though, and you might be right in us needing a proper wide winger to stretch defences.

[Quickenthetempo]

That's surprising....
or is it? Who used to do that for Man City, was it Fernandinho?

City are masters at it, they take turns.

Cork plays like it's on his mind all game.

[Spiral]

I see it looking more like the below:

Trafford
Roberts, Ekdal, Beyer, Taylor
Cullen, Cork,
Twine, Amdouni, Zaroury
Foster

I dunno, I just feel that even in the PL six defensive players plus a GK is overkill for how we play. It leaves the four in attack with a hell of a lot of work to do, feeding on scraps at times as we saw in the first half today where we played 442 with Roberts and Brownhill as defensive midfielders, whereas under Kompany our whole playstyle and our whole build up has almost always revolved around having five players in attack rather than four, and those five having the legs to overload whichever zone we need to overload. We attack so fluidly because there are always so many pass options for any player at any moment, and this comes about by having that extra man forward.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I dunno, I just feel that even in the PL six defensive players plus a GK is overkill for how we play. It leaves the four in attack with a hell of a lot of work to do, feeding on scraps at times as we saw in the first half today where we played 442 with Roberts and Brownhill as defensive midfielders, whereas under Kompany our whole playstyle and our whole build up has almost always revolved around having five players in attack rather than four, and those five having the legs to overload whichever zone we need to overload. We attack so fluidly because there are always so many pass options for any player at any moment, and this comes about by having that extra man forward.

I honestly can’t see us setting up any other way against city. I think we will try sit deep and hit them on the counter.

[Hedontplayforyou]

I'm envisioning Amdouni more as a Rashford type, coming in from wide to central attacking positions rather than playing as a traditional No10 behind the striker or a winger like Zaroury, but that's only based on highlights I've seen of him and the one or two moments in these last few games where he took up those not-wide-but-not-central-either positions. I could be wrong though, and you might be right in us needing a proper wide winger to stretch defences.

I mentioned Suarez very loosely in a previous post about Amdouni. However I do think, based on brief showings, that Zeki has some similarities to the Suarez style.

[123EasyasBFC]

I see it looking more like the below:

Trafford
Roberts, Ekdal, Beyer, Taylor
Cullen, Cork,
Twine, Amdouni, Zaroury
Foster

There’s no way kompany doesn’t play brownhill or muric against City, they 100% play. If Townsend signs he also starts over amdouni

[CoolClaret]

Really hoping Manuel Benson & Josh Cullen get some minutes against Mainz.

& Hopefully another centre midfielder, whoever that maybe

[Spiral]

To be fair there's been fans ahead of the game on this one- 'Duff as Striker' and 'Tarkowski as CDM' anyone?
Also Grezza made that exact transition under Coyle, as did Bikey, and he also converted Elliott to a CM, but I wouldn't call Coyle a purveyor of Guardiolissimo or Total Football.

Aye, Coyle certainly ain't that (Where even is he nowadays?) I was thinking more along the lines of players who were genuinely world class in their positions being redeployed against all conventional wisdom more than I was thinking the more fortunate incidents of square pegs actually fitting in round holes! Arfield as a winger under Dyche is another good example of a player being used not how they traditionally were to great success. Difference between all those examples and when Pep does it is that when lesser managers at lesser teams do it I'm tempted to think they did it out of necessity, but when Pep does it it's mad-scientist level confidence and bravery, because he has never been short of squad options or funds to get the players he otherwise wants and needs.

[dermotdermot]

Really hoping Manuel Benson & Josh Cullen get some minutes against Mainz.

& Hopefully another centre midfielder, whoever that maybe

When is the Mainz game?

[Newcastleclaret93]

When is the Mainz game?

Saturday next week

[Quicknick]

Glad Foster showed up well. Koleoshi looks a find. UTC

[Spiral]

I honestly can’t see us setting up any other way against city. I think we will try sit deep and hit them on the counter.

City's weakness (if they can be said to have one) is teams who take the game to them and try to match the intensity of their press. They are characterised by a slow build up, and if you can frustrate that, you can frustrate City, but you can only do that with numbers, by hunting in packs in the middle and higher up the park past the half way line, and using the touchline to cage them in in wide areas. If you sit back and (try to) survive pressure and hit them on the counter, assuming you survive the pressure you then have to get past Stones, Rodri, Akanji, Dias, Ake and Ederson. Not a chance three of our players breaking on the counter get past that. It's totally impenetrable. I feel it's impossible to counter attack against.

[CoolClaret]

In all honesty it’s the best time to play City.

They’ve lost Gundo who was absolutely massive for them last season - and I’m pretty convinced that De Bruyne will be out with that hamstring tear he got in the UCL final - hopefully Jack Grealish is still half cooked as well.

There’s going to be a lot of pressure on Foden and to step up and be a key contributor straight away imo and perhaps Alvarez.

Should definitely bring the game to them, no doubt about it.

Two wonderful players of course but you never know we may just catch them off guard.

[Spiral]

"City have lost Gundogan"

"yay" (cheering)

"But they've replaced him with Kovacic"

(silence..) "oh cock"

[Nonayforever]

Can't see Brownhill or Cork playing against City. Brownhill can't keep control of the ball and Cork is way off speed.
Muric in goal, any combination of defence , the new number 12 will deffo play along with Twine & Foster.

[Newcastleclaret93]

In all honesty it’s the best time to play City.

They’ve lost Gundo who was absolutely massive for them last season - and I’m pretty convinced that De Bruyne will be out with that hamstring tear he got in the UCL final - hopefully Jack Grealish is still half cooked as well.

There’s going to be a lot of pressure on Foden and to step up and be a key contributor straight away imo and perhaps Alvarez.

Should definitely bring the game to them, no doubt about it.

Two wonderful players of course but you never know we may just catch them off guard.

De Bruyne has featured twice in pre season.

The scary thing about this city team is that both Foden is struggling to even get off the bench at the moment

[Newcastleclaret93]

City's weakness (if they can be said to have one) is teams who take the game to them and try to match the intensity of their press. They are characterised by a slow build up, and if you can frustrate that, you can frustrate City, but you can only do that with numbers, by hunting in packs in the middle and higher up the park past the half way line, and using the touchline to cage them in in wide areas. If you sit back and (try to) survive pressure and hit them on the counter, assuming you survive the pressure you then have to get past Stones, Rodri, Akanji, Dias, Ake and Ederson. Not a chance three of our players breaking on the counter get past that. It's totally impenetrable. I feel it's impossible to counter attack against.

I think if we go after city and try press them hard we will be on the end of 5/6 nil drubbing.

City are a different beast with Haaland up top they absolutely love it when teams press them as it allows Haaland space to get in behind.

[Carwin261]

I think we need to assume that the first 4 games of the season could see us bottom of the league ,but not to panic,we then will have 34 matches left to average 4 points every 3 games that gives us well over 38 points ,simple .

[spt_claret]

I think if we go after city and try press them hard we will be on the end of 5/6 nil drubbing.

City are a different beast with Haaland up top they absolutely love it when teams press them as it allows Haaland space to get in behind.

They're a testament to unlimited financial resources.
Sit deep and try defend, they'll just boss the pitch and pull you apart with passing and pace.
Try and press them and go to them, they've got the dribblers to round you and Haaland is a freak, he's clocked faster sprint speeds than some of Mbappe's, is fully two footed, and a monster in the air.
Try and go compact, players like Grealish or Walker can roam down the sides and ping in crosses for Haaland.
Try and get at them in the wide zones, De Bruyne and Silva thread it through the middle for Haaland to run onto.
The blueprint is whatever the hell Brentford did to do the double over them last season. Which seemed to me to mostly be "hope Ben Mee can stop Haaland and peg it forwards for Toney."

[CoolClaret]

"City have lost Gundogan"

"yay" (cheering)

"But they've replaced him with Kovacic"

(silence..) "oh cock"

Ha - shrewd buy Kovacic but isn’t the same sort of player going forwards as Gundo is.

De Bruyne has featured twice in pre season.

The scary thing about this city team is that both Foden is struggling to even get off the bench at the moment

Interesting, I didn’t realise.

I wonder who they’ll line up behind Haaland and if they’ll play 3 at the back and two in midfield again…

[Carwin261]

I think we need to assume that the first 4 games of the season could see us bottom of the league ,but not to panic,we then will have 34 matches left to average 4 points every 3 games that gives us well over 38 points ,simple .

Please ignore this post ,I’ve had a drink ,and am talking ********.

[CoolClaret]

The blueprint is whatever the hell Brentford did to do the double over them last season. Which seemed to me to mostly be "hope Ben Mee can stop Haaland and peg it forwards for Toney."

I think Inter pressed them incredibly well and if the game went on for another 5-10 minutes probably got themselves another goal.

Be interesting to see how they lineup in their remaining preseason fixtures - I just checked and their last game was back to a 4-2-3-1 with Kovacic and Rico Lewis in midfield…

I wonder if he goes back to Stones and Rodri or Rodri & Kovacic, both, erm, challenging

Be a tough game of course - still think it’s the best time to play them

[Newcastleclaret93]

Ha - shrewd buy Kovacic but isn’t the same sort of player going forwards as Gundo is.



Interesting, I didn’t realise.

I wonder who they’ll line up behind Haaland and if they’ll play 3 at the back and two in midfield again…

If there pre season is anything to go off I would suggest there starting eleven vs us will look something like this:

Ederson
Walker, Stones, Dias, Kanji
Rodri, Bernardo, De bruyne
Alvarez, Haaland, Grealish

[spt_claret]

I think Inter pressed them incredibly well and if the game went on for another 5-10 minutes probably got themselves another goal.

Be interesting to see how they lineup in their remaining preseason fixtures - I just checked and their last game was back to a 4-2-3-1 with Kovacic and Rico Lewis in midfield…

I wonder if he goes back to Stones and Rodri or Rodri & Kovacic, both, erm, challenging

Be a tough game of course - still think it’s the best time to play them

Inter overperformed massively, it was impressive. Younger legs and they could have won that.
You need a hard pressing midfield with pace, and a mobile defence who are willing to sit deep and leave a man on Haaland. Acerbi did the same job Mee did for Brentford, same foot too. You stick a physical, savvy centre back on Haaland, and have a more mobile and technical partner to press up or drop back and cover if Haaland's pace gets past his man.
For us, I think that the marker's Ekdal- Mee & Acerbi aren't quick but managed to shackle Haaland, Ekdal's got the physicality and reading, and while not quick is quicker than either of they are. The more I think about it the more I think it means we want Dakhil or O'Shea at LB rather than Taylor for that game, for their composure on the ball when trying to recover.

[Vegas Claret]

De Bruyne has featured twice in pre season.

Don't think that's correct !!

KDB was on the bench against Bayern with zero intent on playing him, according to the MEN he only started training on Tuesday. No doubt he'll be back for us though

[AfloatinClaret]

Really hoping Manuel Benson & Josh Cullen get some minutes against Mainz...

The more they don't play, the more convinced I become that income from their sales, is what will pay for our new signings