Burnley Town Centre

[superdimitri]

Er no. Just got back from centre of Chester. Place is heaving. People everywhere, restaurants booming and pubs full.

Sadly it's full of scousers now. If it weren't for then the place would be empty.
Same goes for the coastline in North Wales.

[Nori1958]

Chester is a City and as always attracts a lot of visitors from outside the UK because of it's history.

Stayed in Chester for a couple of nights not long ago, after 6pm the town centre was full of kids on skateboards, beggers and drunks.....as a tourist I felt in the minority

[CaptJohn]

Sadly it's full of scousers now. If it weren't for then the place would be empty.
Same goes for the coastline in North Wales.

You are joking aren't you? There are scousers yes, but they are very much in the minority.
The reason I used Chester as a comparison is the size of the population which I estimate is the same as Burnley. The history of Chester is certainly a big attraction but it also a very nice place to spend a short holiday in terms of the nice walks in the area, good hotels, nice restaurants and of course the racecourse and it's many events. I live close to the city centre and often meet groups who come from all over the country for a short break in the city. They plan visits to take in the North Wales coast, Chester races, golf, trips to Liverpool and the Beatles attractions but use Chester as a base because it's perceived as a nice place. This is where Burnley loses out as it is perceived as a dump. How you go about changing this is difficult because the one thing that Burnley does have is a world famous football club but the area surrounding the Turf is awful. Just for a moment put yourself in the shoes of a football tourist. They want to come and see the Clarets and look for hotels. What is available within walking distance? Not a lot and it hardly feels safe or welcoming. They look further afield and most likely end up staying in Manchester, thus Burnley as a town loses out on the upsell from these tourists. Sad but true. Who is going to invest in an upgrade to infrastructure, to make the place appealing? I don't know the answer.

[Jakubclaret]

I think Darlo town centre is a lot more depressing than Burnley's but the absolute worst I've seen recently is Bishop Auckland. It even has vape and phone case shops closing down

Spennymoor is probably just as bad if not worse than bishop Auckland, estate agents & charity shops seem to be the mainstay. Lot's of northeast towns are deprived it becomes more affluent further up weardale.

[bfcjg]

You are joking aren't you? There are scousers yes, but they are very much in the minority.
The reason I used Chester as a comparison is the size of the population which I estimate is the same as Burnley. The history of Chester is certainly a big attraction but it also a very nice place to spend a short holiday in terms of the nice walks in the area, good hotels, nice restaurants and of course the racecourse and it's many events. I live close to the city centre and often meet groups who come from all over the country for a short break in the city. They plan visits to take in the North Wales coast, Chester races, golf, trips to Liverpool and the Beatles attractions but use Chester as a base because it's perceived as a nice place. This is where Burnley loses out as it is perceived as a dump. How you go about changing this is difficult because the one thing that Burnley does have is a world famous football club but the area surrounding the Turf is awful. Just for a moment put yourself in the shoes of a football tourist. They want to come and see the Clarets and look for hotels. What is available within walking distance? Not a lot and it hardly feels safe or welcoming. They look further afield and most likely end up staying in Manchester, thus Burnley as a town loses out on the upsell from these tourists. Sad but true. Who is going to invest in an upgrade to infrastructure, to make the place appealing? I don't know the answer.

Real dump, no decent hotels in walking distance, yeah right.
https://crowwoodhotel.com/

[arise_sir_charge]

Burnley town centre is way too big.

If you could concentrate everything around the kite recent developments Next, Primark, Pioneer Place and work from say Road Vera island down it would be much better.

Flatten the rest and let Barratt build as many homes as they want on it.

[Dyched]

Being able to drive through town from St James Street to the Bus Station may help. Being able to park and just pop into shops could help a bit like Hebden Bridge. May also stop anti social behaviour and people hanging around.

[Clovius Boofus]

It's silly to compare Chester with Burnley. Might as well compare York with Burnley while we're at it.

A couple of things though. The Keirby should go. Also, in specific areas, councils should be given planning powers for what's allowed on shop frontage, and also be able to enforce standards of upkeep. It's ok spending large sums of money tarting bits up here and there, but it hardly amounts to much when some of the buildings look like they do.

[Rowls]

Chester is a city and a tourist destination, with one of the most popular attractions in the country down the road, slightly unfair comparison.

Q. And why is that the case?

A. Because of its unspoilt architecture and history.

It appears it’s unfair to compare Burnley to anywhere for some people.

[NewClaret]

Examples of towns that have turned their centres around seem to be of the more middle class type. Altrincham, Hebden Bridge, Clitheroe etc.
They had less Industrial Revolution buildings to begin with and also the smaller populace that went with not needing huge work forces for the factories.
They have a demographic that can afford bistro eateries and independent shops. I suspect that type of person who lives in Burnley (or any other large post industrial northern town), drives out to said smaller fashionable towns for their leisure time.
Are there any examples of larger post industrial towns that have managed to turn their centres around?

I take your point about size an history playing a part in a location’s redevelopment prospects.

I’m probably what you would consider ‘middle class’ (although I hate the whole notion of ‘class’) and I’ll travel wherever is nice. I’ll go to Burnley for a meal at the Pallazo because it’s a nice Italian or Whalley for a pub lunch. If an area has nice things I’ll travel.

I think it’s worth saying that Burnley is doing okay in many respects. The public realm through Burnley is decent, I think the shopping centre is okay and we now have a new cinema and eateries on the way. I also think the college/UCLAN campus and Weavers Triangle have been well done. Plus Town2Turf should hopefully see some investment in that stretch. We’re a lot better off than most.

I’d just like to see a concerted effort to transform empty shops to entertainment businesses (I could name loads Burnley council could try to partner with & incentivise) and more local accommodation so that the town centre has residents to support it day & night. Oh and some central investment in shop fronts but we’ve discussed the complexities of that before.

[Clovius Boofus]

The anti-social behaviour needs sorting out, and the police and council should make this a priority. No more namby-pamby. People, especially families with young children and our elderly, should feel safe when shopping in the town.

Shocking that it's been allowed to come to this, with the council and the police quibbling about who's responsible for policing.

[GetIntoEm]

The state of those slobs that sit on the floor outside McDonald's with their cans and litter are a sight to make anyone not want to return. They need tackling

[Targetman]

ive suggested this before on local facebook groups, build on the take aways and cafes that are in there now. "people of Burnley" hated the idea as they wanted somewhere to buy buttons & cotton thread once a year, and "it stinks".

Theres a lot of rose tinted views of Burnley market, its been shite for 20 years. Needs either getting rid of, or repurposing. A market hall isnt what people want these days

You only need to travel a few miles down the road to Bury to see whether people do or dont want a market any more.

Bury Market is always very busy and brings lots of visitors into the town, coach firms even run day trips there on market days.

The locals love the market, maybe because they can buy buttons and cotton thread there, and an incredible variety of other things too!

[Rowls]

Examples of towns that have turned their centres around seem to be of the more middle class type. Altrincham, Hebden Bridge, Clitheroe etc.
They had less Industrial Revolution buildings to begin with and also the smaller populace that went with not needing huge work forces for the factories.
They have a demographic that can afford bistro eateries and independent shops. I suspect that type of person who lives in Burnley (or any other large post industrial northern town), drives out to said smaller fashionable towns for their leisure time.
Are there any examples of larger post industrial towns that have managed to turn their centres around?

Hebden Bridge was a derelict mess of industrial buildings in the 70s.

To answer your question about industrial northern towns, I don’t know of any.

But does that mean towns like Burnley should give up? Or should they keep trying with methods that are known to help?

First and foremost is making the town centre beautiful. Tear down the ugly and build back the beautiful buildings that were wrongly pulled down.

People visit pretty places and avoid ugly ones.

[GetIntoEm]

You only need to travel a few miles down the road to Bury to see whether people do or dont want a market any more.

Bury Market is always very busy and brings lots of visitors into the town, coach firms even run day trips there on market days.

The locals love the market, maybe because they can buy buttons and cotton thread there, and an incredible variety of other things too!

Bury market is a myth though, its a dump. Bury is also about 3 times bigger than Burnley. 3 times as many people clinging on to the past.

[criminalclaret]

I'm sorry there isn't a cat in hells chance that you can compare Burnley to have the potential of Chester or York. I've been in York recently and its gorgeous and makes Skipton look like a dump (and Skipton is a lovely place!).

I was born in Burnley and grew up down the road in the valley where I left for pastures new 20 years ago. I love going to the Turf but I bloody hate going via Burnley Town Centre, it really is a dump. Even when I came through the other day it was just depressing, especially without the buzz of a matchday.

For locals and tourists/ away fans alike, I'd love to see the main stretch from Manchester Road Train Station down the road, St James St, Yorkshire Street to the Turf to be a ablaze with planters and colour. Sandblast all the buildings back to the original yellow stone, put fake fronts / history information in closed down premises. Uplift the horrible brown exterior of Charter Walk tower building. From the top part of Yorkshire Street to the roundabout with the Keirby, get a CPO put it in its grave once and for all. Try and make that aRiverside plaza. Make that thoroughfare nice and enjoyable place to walk through and instill a bit of pride back. It has to start small and grow, no way around that. Rawtenstall had that awful precinct for years before it was flattened. Even with nothing on that land, its still MILES better than it was before. Its now a rotational community space and looks beautiful. I think the Lions volunteers look after all the gardening and planters for it.

The socio-ecomonic and generation issues of Burnley will never be fixed with a makeover that is for certain. And the surrounding area of Burnley is something we need to be selling to our new global audience being so close the transport amenities of Manchester. We will be getting more eyes on us now this season, we need to make it as pleasant for the day trippers as we do for the locals.

[Woodleyclaret]

There have been improvements but I take the point re accommodation. Rosehall House was a good spot to stay but post Covid the prices got silly and building a gin bar in it didn't help .The council gave never been great at repurposing the older buildings ,preferring bulldozing old houses to renovation and leaving empty houses to get trashed.CPO is needed and hostels provided to deal with the increasing homeless population.Lower retail rents to incourage start ups and a strategic plan to deal with unoccupied retail outlets
The market need more smaller units and encouragement given to more diverse shops.

[giveusaB]

Lancashire County Council update:
“We have now further extended the closure until Friday August 25th following some delays to the maintenance to the bridge due to poor weather. We're sorry for the added disruption, and grateful for people's patience while we make these significant improvements.”

[Targetman]

Bury market is a myth though, its a dump. Bury is also about 3 times bigger than Burnley. 3 times as many people clinging on to the past.

Just like you are clinging on to that silly statement!

Bury market regularly wins awards in nationwide polls and has also been voted England's best market several times.

It would seem that lots of shoppers have different views from you about the place.

[ralph8]

Burnley Express now stating planning application is in with Burnley Council to return the Sparrow Hawk back to a Hotel from Student accommodation.

The story goes on to quote a local Councillor stating that this OK if it is a proper Hotel, however, we would not want it to be another Hostel or Half way house.

If this is the case that it is another Hostel dressed up as a Hotel, the town cannot sustain this high level of housing type, given the current depravation in that side of town.

[Papabendi]

. Rawtenstall had that awful precinct for years before it was flattened. Even with nothing on that land, its still MILES better than it was before. Its now a rotational community space and looks beautiful. I think the Lions volunteers look after all the gardening and planters for it]






Civic Pride look after Rawtenstall. It is a shame in a way that it has been left to a bunch of volunteers to be custodians but they do a great job.

Knocking eye sores down is certainly a start. I'd argue with Rawtenstall it was perhaps a different issues in that until the early 2010s it had a half finished retail park. The town had seen better days but looks great now. You see the improvements more clearly when you live away and come back every so often. It can be done.

[AlargeClaret]

While there’s some excellent posts , the “ football tourist “ thing is pretty damn small and vastly overated . Burnley will NEVER be a Chester/York/Bath /Harrogate etc ( I guess the Romans passed us by)

The vast bulk of the 2k who come do so in cars /coaches and unless a Sat “ derby” with a few on the train .They might spend a few £ on beer but any tourists in the Burnley end will inevitably stay in Manc. Football fans don’t give a flying feck about the walk from car to ground , it’s simply a case of finding your end asap really . We’ll never have big city attractions, history etc.

Town / city centre re-developments of buildings /areas are almost always anchored with large food & drink halls/squares serving vast array of fairly pricey drinks , cocktails and cuisine . However for this you NEED the right social demographics /day visitors , workers , tourists , reasonably upwardly mobile which Burnley just isn’t .

[giveusaB]

Just watched Granada reports.It shows what Liverpool council are doing to encourage new business start ups.A pound rent for three years.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2023-0 ... ps-for-a-1

[criminalclaret]

Knocking eye sores down is certainly a start

Gimme a nod and I'll be driving the bulldozer there myself to Yorkshire St. I'll take a few local characters/scotes out in the process.