I do doubt you....iam talking about the overall atmosphere at games, not fans moaning amongst themselvesAGENT_CLARET wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:09 pmWho mentioned chants ???? And don't doubt me because there was plenty of moaning at the team and management especially at Brentford last week and again Bournemouth and not for the first time
Clearly you don't need to see a game to call it right. You didn't need to be Nostradamus to look at the team sheet before the game and predict what was going to happen...Big Vinny K wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:07 amAnd Benson who scored 2 and was replaced by Tella.
We also had Barnes who was playing a very different and much more effective role than Amdouni did and Zaroury who was full of confidence and tore them apart in that game running at their defenders constantly.
Not sure how that system yesterday could have been the same given the difference in style between Barnes and Amdouni. I didn’t see all the game yesterday but if they did try and play the same system then that is a big mistake in itself thinking Amdouni could play that role.
Bournemouth played a strong team in the cup against us and we were the much better side and given their poor form this year for them to dominate as much as they did yesterday has got to be worrying to say the least.
Roberts didn't playClaretPete001 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:41 pmClearly you don't need to see a game to call it right. You didn't need to be Nostradamus to look at the team sheet before the game and predict what was going to happen...
It's worrying that our manager seems so out of touch.
On the up side, we were a toe nail away from a draw after a calamitous and fortuitous second goal for them. On a different day, Roberts doesn't give the ball away and Jay Rod scores the winner in the last minute.
On the downside, they could have been 4-1 at half time with few complaints from us.
In the post before I wrote 'Of course, Benson and Roberts do not give the ball away like Kolosheo and Vitinho.'CoolClaret wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:03 pmI guess you do need to be Nostradamus to know who played though...
BrilliantClaretPete001 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:19 pmOne thing I've learned about this message board is that Usernames often accurately reflect the User
Ok, I’ll bite.ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:19 pmOne thing I've learned about this message board is that Usernames often accurately reflect the User
Did you go to Brentford and or Bournemouth
I haven’t read the whole thread as I find the idea utterly ridiculous, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It shouldn’t but it never ceases to amaze me how fickle we are as a fan base and actually football fans in general we have laughed at and criticised other clubs and there fans for turning on there managers in similar situations. We will truly get what we deserve as a fan base if Vincent gets sacked I will have no doubt at that point of our relegation.
Club finances and the owners aims of making profit pretty much depend on it.JarrowClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:52 amI haven’t read the whole thread as I find the idea utterly ridiculous, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It shouldn’t but it never ceases to amaze me how fickle we are as a fan base and actually football fans in general we have laughed at and criticised other clubs and there fans for turning on there managers in similar situations. We will truly get what we deserve as a fan base if Vincent gets sacked I will have no doubt at that point of our relegation.
Anyway what will be will be we have no Devine right to be in this league I still think we will be okay admittedly we are going to have to make huge improvements for that to happen. Even if we do go down though it isn’t the end of the world we will just go by again in the words of Sean Dyche don’t get to high with the highs or too low with the lows. Anyone who believes that we HAVE to be in the prem is crazy, something has gone truly wrong if we have to be in the prem to survive
No I didn't, which is why I said I hadn't read or heard anything to suggest it happened, as you will know you aren't allowed to leave a game early, or go to the loo during the game without there being a 5 page thread on here about it.
I agree with the sentiment and great to have another promotion season with VK.Jjjack wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:03 amWe have to stick with the long term project the club and Kompany have aligned themselves on. If we are destined for relegation better to do it with Kompany and keep the club together - like we did with Dyche when we had the same sentiments in his first PL season.
Absolutely right.Jjjack wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:03 amWe have to stick with the long term project the club and Kompany have aligned themselves on. If we are destined for relegation better to do it with Kompany and keep the club together - like we did with Dyche when we had the same sentiments in his first PL season.
I don’t think cutting out the errors is as simple as it sounds. It’s also about the way we are set up to play in midfield, how many options are there for a pass and is there good movement creating space for the players receiving. It’s not just the individual error maker but a whole system tactical approach as well which includes the decision to just get rid. As demonstrated why Dyches teams rarely made errors at the back or give penalty’s away.warksclaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:30 amWe can only pick up points in this League, if we cut out the silly mistakes and loss of possession where it hurts. Even the top teams concede goals from player mistakes but for us its happened in the majority of games. Would love to see the analysis over our first 10 games where an obvious error has cost us goals and points. For example we technically lost 3 points at Bournemouth through Charlie losing possession, and Vitinho passed it away. In some games we would still have lost ie Berge losing possession at Brentford would not have affected the result
The Burnley documentary certainly suggested the opposite to megawthorpe_view wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:16 amIf, as said by Vincent Kompany, promotion was not expected last season, then relegation this season shouldn't result in his dismissal.
He's brought in an unexpected season of Premier League money which the board should regard as a bonus, not a failure.
This was the kind of things he, and the chairman, were saying at Easter.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:23 amThe Burnley documentary certainly suggested the opposite to me
Dyche teams rarely made mistakes as he set his teams up to have little of the ball and rely on solid defending to him through, whereas it feels like Kompany is trying to set his teams up to dominate the ball and attack. Unfortunately we don't currently have the players available to do that.northeastclaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:54 amI don’t think cutting out the errors is as simple as it sounds. It’s also about the way we are set up to play in midfield, how many options are there for a pass and is there good movement creating space for the players receiving. It’s not just the individual error maker but a whole system tactical approach as well which includes the decision to just get rid. As demonstrated why Dyches teams rarely made errors at the back or give penalty’s away.
The thing is results would almost certainly be the same. From back to front that team/squad isn't up to PL football, despite having some excellent footballers in it who would (and in some cases already have)rip up the Championship. A new manager isn't going to change that fact. The only thing (imo) which could change in the near future (whoever is in charge) is that the injury situation may improve and it's just possible the missing players could make a material difference to the trajectory of our season, but I'm not convinced. We'll see!claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:25 amIf we sack him I take it the new guy gets 10 games to prove himself in this division before he too gets potted if results are the same ?
I am a bit confused by this did they lose a massive chunk of their investment last season? Are you on about Investors are the money they have. If it is investors I imagine it will be harder to get them on board in the championship but it seems it isn’t impossible see us with JJ Watt etc and Birmingham City with Tom Brady.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:59 amClub finances and the owners aims of making profit pretty much depend on it.
They will lose a massive chunk of their investment if we are not a premier league club.
Absolutely spot on, especially calling those deserting the team and manager pathetic.JarrowClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:39 amI am a bit confused by this did they lose a massive chunk of their investment last season? Are you on about Investors are the money they have. If it is investors I imagine it will be harder to get them on board in the championship but it seems it isn’t impossible see us with JJ Watt etc and Birmingham City with Tom Brady.
Finances would take a hit no doubt but surely a Club of our size has contingency plans for relegation! I don’t know how Clubs are run financially but i would be shocked if having just been promoted we haven’t factored in relegation with and i guess without Kompany.
i have no idea what ALK are taking out of the Club if anything but I would have thought there profit will/ would come should they ever sell the Club maybe I am wrong. If I am right I agree to realise what they would think is a good price we would need to be in the Prem but if they aren’t looking to sell yet is it a massive issue? You could be right I guess and if you are they will have to make a decision on Vincent.
The fact of the matter is that if Kompany had left us during or at the end of last season there would have been people on here moaning about his loyalty and how he deserted us when we needed him the most. When it is getting tough there are elements of our fan base deserting the team and Kompany and i just find it pathetic really. Football is not binary just because we lost last week does not mean we will lose this week and if we get beat by Palace it does not mean we will lose against Arsenal. Throughout every 1 of our prem seasons there have been periods where we couldn’t buy a win and periods where we grabbed several we have to give the Team and Vincent the chance to get to the point where we start winning it will come.
Either way it fitsJarrowClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:02 amTo be fair i didn’t call anyone pathetic as much as i disagree they are entitled to that opinion i just find the idea of it pathetic.
If the PL isn't important to paces business plan & model you need to be asking why was SD sacked. Paces wants the club stabilized in the PL & he won't want to gamble on the club being relegated & instantly bouncing back like last time. It's seems to be the common held belief that if we get relegated pace will perservere with kompany as if it's a planned journey completely dismissing the fact that he had already sacked somebody prior with a good track record of getting clubs promoted from the second tier. if that's the plan with kompany he could have saved himself a fortune & just kept dyche in situ.JarrowClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:39 amI am a bit confused by this did they lose a massive chunk of their investment last season? Are you on about Investors are the money they have. If it is investors I imagine it will be harder to get them on board in the championship but it seems it isn’t impossible see us with JJ Watt etc and Birmingham City with Tom Brady.
Finances would take a hit no doubt but surely a Club of our size has contingency plans for relegation! I don’t know how Clubs are run financially but i would be shocked if having just been promoted we haven’t factored in relegation with and i guess without Kompany.
i have no idea what ALK are taking out of the Club if anything but I would have thought there profit will/ would come should they ever sell the Club maybe I am wrong. If I am right I agree to realise what they would think is a good price we would need to be in the Prem but if they aren’t looking to sell yet is it a massive issue? You could be right I guess and if you are they will have to make a decision on Vincent.
The fact of the matter is that if Kompany had left us during or at the end of last season there would have been people on here moaning about his loyalty and how he deserted us when we needed him the most. When it is getting tough there are elements of our fan base deserting the team and Kompany and i just find it pathetic really. Football is not binary just because we lost last week does not mean we will lose this week and if we get beat by Palace it does not mean we will lose against Arsenal. Throughout every 1 of our prem seasons there have been periods where we couldn’t buy a win and periods where we grabbed several we have to give the Team and Vincent the chance to get to the point where we start winning it will come.
No I am on about owners making a profit.JarrowClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:39 amI am a bit confused by this did they lose a massive chunk of their investment last season? Are you on about Investors are the money they have. If it is investors I imagine it will be harder to get them on board in the championship but it seems it isn’t impossible see us with JJ Watt etc and Birmingham City with Tom Brady.
Finances would take a hit no doubt but surely a Club of our size has contingency plans for relegation! I don’t know how Clubs are run financially but i would be shocked if having just been promoted we haven’t factored in relegation with and i guess without Kompany.
i have no idea what ALK are taking out of the Club if anything but I would have thought there profit will/ would come should they ever sell the Club maybe I am wrong. If I am right I agree to realise what they would think is a good price we would need to be in the Prem but if they aren’t looking to sell yet is it a massive issue? You could be right I guess and if you are they will have to make a decision on Vincent.
The fact of the matter is that if Kompany had left us during or at the end of last season there would have been people on here moaning about his loyalty and how he deserted us when we needed him the most. When it is getting tough there are elements of our fan base deserting the team and Kompany and i just find it pathetic really. Football is not binary just because we lost last week does not mean we will lose this week and if we get beat by Palace it does not mean we will lose against Arsenal. Throughout every 1 of our prem seasons there have been periods where we couldn’t buy a win and periods where we grabbed several we have to give the Team and Vincent the chance to get to the point where we start winning it will come.
Pretty sure if you went back to past threads about Dyche every time we lost a few games you’d spot a trend.Steve1956 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:27 amHaving glanced through the 9 pages of this thread,I can't believe we are discussing sacking our manager,just go back to last seasons threads when posters where drooling over our performances being the best ever,short memories people have,we have a progressive young manager and all we can do is want him sacked.....shame on all calling for Kompany's head...you never know what you got till its gone.
Stop scaremongering.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:09 pmNo I am on about owners making a profit.
They won’t make money by being a championship club. The average losses per championship club in 21-22 season was 15m (as per deloittes findings).
The only way the owners make profit on their investment is by being a premier league club. There are no certainties at all that if we are relegated this season we get promoted again.
From a fans point of view, we need the income to cover the debts (who knows how much debt we have after this summer).
Right now club safety is important
It was only fine because we came back up.NewClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:18 pmStop scaremongering.
We went down the year before last year and all this tripe was rolled out about our impending doom (by yourself, I’m pretty sure, will have to check). Everything was fine.
It will be again if we’re relegated.
Only this time even our B team is massively stronger than the side we started last season with. Note additions of Foster, Obafemi, AAD and Ekdal in Jan last year + multiple fringe players signed in summer, plus two players in McNally & Twine who will have far more extensive Championship experience next season.
I expect we’ll be playing Championship football next season judging by how we’ve started but let’s not start all this utter nonsense about finances when nobody on here has a clue how good or bad they are, especially considering recent financial revelations.
Re read what I wrote Newclaret.NewClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:18 pmStop scaremongering.
We went down the year before last year and all this tripe was rolled out about our impending doom (by yourself, I’m pretty sure, will have to check). Everything was fine.
It will be again if we’re relegated.
Only this time even our B team is massively stronger than the side we started last season with. Note additions of Foster, Obafemi, AAD and Ekdal in Jan last year + multiple fringe players signed in summer, plus two players in McNally & Twine who will have far more extensive Championship experience next season.
I expect we’ll be playing Championship football next season judging by how we’ve started but let’s not start all this utter nonsense about finances when nobody on here has a clue how good or bad they are, especially considering recent financial revelations.
Not sure it's correct to discuss sacking him at this moment in time but the clock has to be ticking from a business pov, which as several have pointed out in this thread that that's what it boils down to moving forward, but what I am sure of is that Vincent kompany is light year's away from being a premier league manager at the moment, so as I see it, either he finds a way of improving thing's quickly or that clock keeps ticking and the time on the clock gets shorter, my view is that if he's going to find some improvement in performances and results it means making some change in he's philosophy. There are glaring thing's that springs to mind in order to do that,Steve1956 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:27 amHaving glanced through the 9 pages of this thread,I can't believe we are discussing sacking our manager,just go back to last seasons threads when posters where drooling over our performances being the best ever,short memories people have,we have a progressive young manager and all we can do is want him sacked.....shame on all calling for Kompany's head...you never know what you got till its gone.
I'm still laughing at the fact you think our B team is massively stronger than our side last year.NewClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:18 pmStop scaremongering.
We went down the year before last year and all this tripe was rolled out about our impending doom (by yourself, I’m pretty sure, will have to check). Everything was fine.
It will be again if we’re relegated.
Only this time even our B team is massively stronger than the side we started last season with. Note additions of Foster, Obafemi, AAD and Ekdal in Jan last year + multiple fringe players signed in summer, plus two players in McNally & Twine who will have far more extensive Championship experience next season.
I expect we’ll be playing Championship football next season judging by how we’ve started but let’s not start all this utter nonsense about finances when nobody on here has a clue how good or bad they are, especially considering recent financial revelations.
Disagree. You (and I) have no idea what would’ve happened had we stayed down but from what I saw they club had massively reduced their wage bill to a manageable level. I think we’d have been fine, at least for another couple of years at which point we’d have likely needed to trim again but there were no signs whatsoever of impending doom.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:25 pmIt was only fine because we came back up.
I'm not sure if we'd be stronger; our spine of leaders would be once again smaller.
No doubt we have some talented players but we don't have a team (at least not right now), sadly.
No room in squad for new players unless some leavealwaysaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:41 pmNot sure it's correct to discuss sacking him at this moment in time but the clock has to be ticking from a business pov, which as several have pointed out in this thread that that's what it boils down to moving forward, but what I am sure of is that Vincent kompany is light year's away from being a premier league manager at the moment, so as I see it, either he finds a way of improving thing's quickly or that clock keeps ticking and the time on the clock gets shorter, my view is that if he's going to find some improvement in performances and results it means making some change in he's philosophy. There are glaring thing's that springs to mind in order to do that,
1, He needs to realise that the present 1st choice goalkeeper is no better than league one standard, the right thing to do would have been to loan him out to a championship club to continue he's development, that's if of course any were interested, but he's far too weak to be thrown in to the Premier league, he's positioning is poor, he's reading of the game is poor, and he shows no cohesion with he's defense whatsoever.
2, He needs to find a leader in the camp, because we don't have one at the moment.
3, He needs to play he's best 11 to start the game to give him the best chance to win a game, at this moment in time he doesn't have the foggiest idea who he's best 11 are, and furthermore he doesn't seem to be bothered about finding it, so in order to do this he needs to eat some humble pie and maybe take some advice and stop being so stubborn.
4, Finally if its not too late by that time, he needs to sign a couple of players with Premier league experience in the window if there's anything left in the pot.
1) Promotion is never a guaranteeNewClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:55 pmDisagree. You (and I) have no idea what would’ve happened had we stayed down but from what I saw they club had massively reduced their wage bill to a manageable level. I think we’d have been fine, at least for another couple of years at which point we’d have likely needed to trim again but there were no signs whatsoever of impending doom.
Re: team, I agree we have a diminishing number of leaders, but without getting in to arguments on who’d stay and go, we’d have Taylor, Brownhill, JBG and potentially Redmond, Cork & JRod (if relegated) which is a lot more Prem experience than our remaining competitors in the league would have. On top of that, we’d have a number of players with experience of winning that league. Again, a lot more than any of our competitors would have. We shouldn’t need any more than that to be very competitive in that league again.
So you think Burnley FC made a loss last season do you?Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:09 pmNo I am on about owners making a profit.
They won’t make money by being a championship club. The average losses per championship club in 21-22 season was 15m (as per deloittes findings).
The only way the owners make profit on their investment is by being a premier league club. There are no certainties at all that if we are relegated this season we get promoted again.
From a fans point of view, we need the income to cover the debts (who knows how much debt we have after this summer).
Right now club safety is important
Nice.
1) Of course it’s not. We might not even need it though (see point two)CoolClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:01 pm1) Promotion is never a guarantee
2) We had a large level of debt (no idea what it is now) - two years down would see a reduction in our parachute payments, another two would be totally gone. We’re not a club that can handle debt like a bigger club, we do not have mega wealthy benefactors - most clubs in the Champ have owners with bigger net worths than what we have.
It’s absolutely not sustainable for us in our current model to be in the Champ for a prolonged period.
I mean half the contingency is based on the fact that some of the lads we’ve bought would have ‘appreciated’ in value - that’s probably true in Koleosho, but I can’t think of it for many/any others from the 10 games played so far.
Thanks for your support
I can’t be bothered to debate all this.NewClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:14 pm1) Of course it’s not. We might not even need it though (see point two)
2) Since we don’t know what the debt is, how do you know we have any? What about the £150m+ cash held by the organisations that own BFC? Nobody knows so tbf you have absolutely no idea how sustainable our finances or model is.
What we do know, factually, is that there were plenty panicking on here before relegation and our leadership managed it well and so I’d expect them to do the same again.