Benson to Southampton

[123EasyasBFC]

Still find it baffling how some fans' first thought is 'how much can we sell him for' now rather than 'how long can we have this lad and how much success can he contribute to Burnley FC'

Quite a shift in perspectives.

Oh yeah and players have loads of loyalty towards clubs and fanbases to don’t they

[123EasyasBFC]

Yes potentially but then I would argue what was the point? We would no doubt be losing all of our remotely decent talent if we were to make that kind of money.

To reach 100 you would be talking Foster, Amdouni, Koleosho, Odobert, Trafford etc… all leaving

The response was to us being in financial disaster and with the sales we could make we wouldn’t be in financial disaster, whether there’s a point to it or not

[CoolClaret]

Oh yeah and players have loads of loyalty towards clubs and fanbases to don’t they

I think you can certainly create that culture at a club - not gonna get much of it with this new approach like.

Bet Brownhill could’ve got a move away last summer if he really pushed for it - just one example.

[123EasyasBFC]

I think you can certainly create that culture at a club - not gonna get much of it with this new approach like.

Bet Brownhill could’ve got a move away last summer if he really pushed for it - just one example.

That’s one example and the only reported news on brownhill last summer was a silly comment from Alex crook saying we would let him go for free

A player like benson for all we know isn’t willing to put it in, in training to win a place in the side and could be pushing for a move first chance he gets, or it could be manager being stubborn we don’t know, but what is wrong when news is out there for fans to think you know what if we can triple our money on a player who’s coming up to 27 then we’d be silly not to, you can still think he’s one of the better players at the club and be gutted if he leaves and still be ok with him leaving

[spt_claret]

Still find it baffling how some fans' first thought is 'how much can we sell him for' now rather than 'how long can we have this lad and how much success can he contribute to Burnley FC'

Quite a shift in perspectives.

I'd say it's as if they own shares but didn't ALK buy them all out?
I've noticed it in other things too though weirdly. People taking an interest in the corporate bottom line of industries such as entertainment, which they have no investment of their own in, but point to the revenue to say it's doing well. Truly bizarre to care about how much money a millionaire with no connection to yourself makes.

So I guess in a way, ALK are running the club in the fans' interest if the fans are so interested in ALK making money.

[CoolClaret]

That’s one example and the only reported news on brownhill last summer was a silly comment from Alex crook saying we would let him go for free

A player like benson for all we know isn’t willing to put it in, in training to win a place in the side and could be pushing for a move first chance he gets, or it could be manager being stubborn we don’t know, but what is wrong when news is out there for fans to think you know what if we can triple our money on a player who’s coming up to 27 then we’d be silly not to, you can still think he’s one of the better players at the club and be gutted if he leaves and still be ok with him leaving

That was but one example off the top of my head.

People going on about his age as though he’s close to the knackers yard good grief.

Benson is 26 and easily has another 4-6 years of quality output. He’s not the straight line speed type that falls off a cliff more tricky and can go inside and outside around players - that skill isn’t going anywhere.

For even a second choice winger I think we have a great option there and we’re just kicking a can down the road with this obsession of wanting to buy players all the time.

He cost naff all - why not get a quality 5 years out of him? That’s as good of a ROI as you can get on a player. It’s not like we’re gonna be selling him for obscene money - just stinks of this finance everything and push the finances to the absolute limit approach that I’m not a fan of one jot.

I’m more perplexed at people just being unable to have original though in all honesty - when the news broke there’s some that are immediately in total support of anything that ALK/VK decides upon and totally undermine/understate any contributing factors that Benson or other players have done for us.

We would not have won the league last year without Manuel Bensons contributions - that’s an absolute fact.

I’ll reserve my judgement but i don’t think this model is going to have long term success for us and will leave us looking every much like a completely soulless Watford type… then everyone will be complaining what happened to the club, I personally think that the writings on the wall already.

[ClaretPete001]

What makes you think we will be in financial disaster, we lost around 19 players in the summer of 22 and brought in 70m in the process, rebuilt a squad for less than half, what makes you think this coming summer we can’t make 140m in sales?

We rebuilt a Championship squad for slightly more than half and had to spend another £97 million this summer.

Many would say we're £50 million short of a squad that could compete in the PL needing a dominant centre-half, holding centre-mid, let back and a backup central striker for Foster..

[spt_claret]

That was but one example off the top of my head.

People going on about his age as though he’s close to the knackers yard good grief.

Benson is 26 and easily has another 4-6 years of quality output. He’s not the straight line speed type that falls off a cliff more tricky and can go inside and outside around players - that skill isn’t going anywhere.

For even a second choice winger I think we have a great option there and we’re just kicking a can down the road with this obsession of wanting to buy players all the time.

He cost naff all - why not get a quality 5 years out of him? That’s as good of a ROI as you can get on a player. It’s not like we’re gonna be selling him for obscene money - just stinks of this finance everything and push the finances to the absolute limit approach that I’m not a fan of one jot.

100% agree.

Riyad Mahrez didn't go to City until he was 27.
Grealish is 28, joined City at 26.
Luis Figo, winger, won the Ballon Dor when he'd just turned 28.
Pavel Nedved, winger, won the Ballon Dor at 31.

The players who we need to focus on selling for a profit, are, rather frustratingly, the ones who've just arrived on big fees, replaced Benson & Zaroury, and not offered much so far. The sheer expense they came for requires we either recover it from them, or recover it from other players and then at some point break about even on them. Which again leaves me lost by the way the model is working in practice. Surely if you have a couple wingers playing brilliantly in the Championship, you do one of two things:
1- Sell them that very first summer at peak value, if you think they can't hack it, to fund replacements without the replacements having as much pressure on appreciating value and providing ROI because they've already been funded.
2- Play them, focus on strengthening elsewhere, and provided they don't absolutely stink up the pitch you'll probably still turn a profit on them even on relegation as they've put themselves in the shop window in the Prem, on a small fee.

Koleosho makes sense under the model. The other wingers, even Odobert, less so. Leaves me scratching my head as to the thinking behind our summer business and our team selection, and why the players proven to deliver for us are the ones we want to loan out or sell, rather than the likes of Ramsey who's looking far too raw for the Prem (so again, why sign him right now, but...)

[123EasyasBFC]

That was but one example off the top of my head.

People going on about his age as though he’s close to the knackers yard good grief.

Benson is 26 and easily has another 4-6 years of quality output. He’s not the straight line speed type that falls off a cliff more tricky and can go inside and outside around players - that skill isn’t going anywhere.

For even a second choice winger I think we have a great option there and we’re just kicking a can down the road with this obsession of wanting to buy players all the time.

He cost naff all - why not get a quality 5 years out of him? That’s as good of a ROI as you can get on a player. It’s not like we’re gonna be selling him for obscene money - just stinks of this finance everything and push the finances to the absolute limit approach that I’m not a fan of one jot.

I’m more perplexed at people just being unable to have original though in all honesty - when the news broke there’s some that are immediately in total support of anything that ALK/VK decides upon and totally undermine/understate any contributing factors that Benson or other players have done for us.

We would not have won the league last year without Manuel Bensons contributions - that’s an absolute fact.

I’ll reserve my judgement but i don’t think this model is going to have long term success for us and will leave us looking every much like a completely soulless Watford type… then everyone will be complaining what happened to the club, I personally think that the writings on the wall already.

There’s a reason benson is the age he is and has only played in Belgium and a loan spell in Netherlands, nobody can possibly know if he has 4-6 years left at top of his game

Again why does being open to benson leaving suddenly make you an ALK fan, not everybody has to agree with your opinion, I think benson was excellent impact player last season but never saw it being replicated this season before a ball had been kicked and after seeing the quality of the league I stick by the fact I don’t think benson would be effective in the premier league

But to start suggesting we wouldn’t of won the league without benson, you could say that about every single player in the squad last season not just benson

[Goliath]

100% agree.

Riyad Mahrez didn't go to City until he was 27.
Grealish is 28, joined City at 26.
Luis Figo, winger, won the Ballon Dor when he'd just turned 28.
Pavel Nedved, winger, won the Ballon Dor at 31.

The players who we need to focus on selling for a profit, are, rather frustratingly, the ones who've just arrived on big fees, replaced Benson & Zaroury, and not offered much so far. The sheer expense they came for requires we either recover it from them, or recover it from other players and then at some point break about even on them. Which again leaves me lost by the way the model is working in practice. Surely if you have a couple wingers playing brilliantly in the Championship, you do one of two things:
1- Sell them that very first summer at peak value, if you think they can't hack it, to fund replacements without the replacements having as much pressure on appreciating value and providing ROI because they've already been funded.
2- Play them, focus on strengthening elsewhere, and provided they don't absolutely stink up the pitch you'll probably still turn a profit on them even on relegation as they've put themselves in the shop window in the Prem, on a small fee.

Koleosho makes sense under the model. The other wingers, even Odobert, less so. Leaves me scratching my head as to the thinking behind our summer business and our team selection, and why the players proven to deliver for us are the ones we want to loan out or sell, rather than the likes of Ramsey who's looking far too raw for the Prem (so again, why sign him right now, but...)

Maybe its proof that Kompany isn't solely think about profit. I doubt he finished last season thinking Zaroury and Benson werent going to get any minutes. Personally, I don't think he expected Odobert and Koleosho to hit the ground running so quickly but once they did it was hard to revert back.
Also, by the time Benson got fit, wed gone through the spell of shipping goals left right and centre so we'd gone into a tighter 442 with JBG sitting in a very disciplined role on the right. I dont see how Benson then fits into the system unless coming off the bench really

[123EasyasBFC]

100% agree.

Riyad Mahrez didn't go to City until he was 27.
Grealish is 28, joined City at 26.
Luis Figo, winger, won the Ballon Dor when he'd just turned 28.
Pavel Nedved, winger, won the Ballon Dor at 31.

The players who we need to focus on selling for a profit, are, rather frustratingly, the ones who've just arrived on big fees, replaced Benson & Zaroury, and not offered much so far. The sheer expense they came for requires we either recover it from them, or recover it from other players and then at some point break about even on them. Which again leaves me lost by the way the model is working in practice. Surely if you have a couple wingers playing brilliantly in the Championship, you do one of two things:
1- Sell them that very first summer at peak value, if you think they can't hack it, to fund replacements without the replacements having as much pressure on appreciating value and providing ROI because they've already been funded.
2- Play them, focus on strengthening elsewhere, and provided they don't absolutely stink up the pitch you'll probably still turn a profit on them even on relegation as they've put themselves in the shop window in the Prem, on a small fee.

Koleosho makes sense under the model. The other wingers, even Odobert, less so. Leaves me scratching my head as to the thinking behind our summer business and our team selection, and why the players proven to deliver for us are the ones we want to loan out or sell, rather than the likes of Ramsey who's looking far too raw for the Prem (so again, why sign him right now, but...)

You can’t be possibly comparing benson to Mahrez, grealish, luis figo and Pavel nedved, come on hahaha getting silly now

[CoolClaret]

100% agree.

Riyad Mahrez didn't go to City until he was 27.
Grealish is 28, joined City at 26.
Luis Figo, winger, won the Ballon Dor when he'd just turned 28.
Pavel Nedved, winger, won the Ballon Dor at 31.

The players who we need to focus on selling for a profit, are, rather frustratingly, the ones who've just arrived on big fees, replaced Benson & Zaroury, and not offered much so far. The sheer expense they came for requires we either recover it from them, or recover it from other players and then at some point break about even on them. Which again leaves me lost by the way the model is working in practice. Surely if you have a couple wingers playing brilliantly in the Championship, you do one of two things:
1- Sell them that very first summer at peak value, if you think they can't hack it, to fund replacements without the replacements having as much pressure on appreciating value and providing ROI because they've already been funded.
2- Play them, focus on strengthening elsewhere, and provided they don't absolutely stink up the pitch you'll probably still turn a profit on them even on relegation as they've put themselves in the shop window in the Prem, on a small fee.

Koleosho makes sense under the model. The other wingers, even Odobert, less so. Leaves me scratching my head as to the thinking behind our summer business and our team selection, and why the players proven to deliver for us are the ones we want to loan out or sell, rather than the likes of Ramsey who's looking far too raw for the Prem (so again, why sign him right now, but...)

Exactly how I feel about it all.

I thought option 2 was the sure fire game plan in all honesty, that’s exactly what I was expecting.. maybe with adding players like your Townsend / Redmond on frees to add to the strike force.

No issue with the odd few punts on young players and slowly bed them in but this current approach to me seems very strange.

It is literally kicking a can down the road / throwing **** against a wall and seeing what sticks.

Very bizarre to me.

[CoolClaret]

You can’t be possibly comparing benson to Mahrez, grealish, luis figo and Pavel nedved, come on hahaha getting silly now

He’s not - and you know he’s not… he was simply stating that a winger at 26/27 isn’t in the knackers yard as some are alluding to - that other wingers have gotten big moves at that age, even gotten better and contributed for a good number of seasons.

Oh and btw, Benson scored more goals in the champ than Grealish did - just saying.

Why deliberately undermine the rest of his post by deliberately being disingenuous like that? So boring

[123EasyasBFC]

Can’t believe I’m seeing benson get compared to Mahrez, grealish, figo and nedved yet he’s being linked to hull and Southampton

[spt_claret]

You can’t be possibly comparing benson to Mahrez, grealish, luis figo and Pavel nedved, come on hahaha getting silly now

Sick to my back teeth of posts like this. You know full well what you're doing, being deliberately stupid to deliberately reframe what I'm saying.
At what point did I ever say Benson was as good as them? Never.
My point is entirely about player development.
Let's take another one- Marc Pugh. He didn't play in the Premier League until he was 28 and had a good couple years.
Or Junior Stanislas- his best season for goals in the Prem he was 27, he had another good year at 28.

This trend of people refusing to engage with posts so disingenously going "You can't possibly be saying XYZ" to dismiss the other person is toxic as hell and needs to stop. I'm not saying that, you bloody know it, knock it off.

[spt_claret]

Can’t believe I’m seeing benson get compared to Mahrez, grealish, figo and nedved yet he’s being linked to hull and Southampton

You're not seeing that and you know it. You're insincere as it gets. But have fun misrepresenting people's arguments to defend your precious ALK.

[ClaretPete001]

Maybe its proof that Kompany isn't solely think about profit. I doubt he finished last season thinking Zaroury and Benson werent going to get any minutes. Personally, I don't think he expected Odobert and Koleosho to hit the ground running so quickly but once they did it was hard to revert back.
Also, by the time Benson got fit, wed gone through the spell of shipping goals left right and centre so we'd gone into a tighter 442 with JBG sitting in a very disciplined role on the right. I dont see how Benson then fits into the system unless coming off the bench really

Surely, if it were true that VK didn't anticipate Zaroury and Benson he wouldn't have bought Odobert and Kolosheo and took Bruun Larssen and Tresor on loan.

Unless, he just likes watching wingers in training..

[123EasyasBFC]

He’s not - and you know he’s not… he was simply stating that a winger at 26/27 isn’t in the knackers yard as some are alluding to - that other wingers have gotten big moves at that age, even gotten better and contributed for a good number of seasons.

Oh and btw, Benson scored more goals in the champ than Grealish did - just saying.

Why deliberately undermine the rest of his post by deliberately being disingenuous like that? So boring

You can’t compare figo ballon d’or winner going to Real Madrid form Barcelona to a club like Burnley potentially cashing in on a nearly 27 year old for potentially double or triple the money, it’s not a fair comparison at all

[123EasyasBFC]

You're not seeing that and you know it. You're insincere as it gets. But have fun misrepresenting people's arguments to defend your precious ALK.

How does being ok with benson being sold mean your an ALK fan, it’s a very strange argument to make, that’s like saying you must not be fans of likes of foster or odobert because ALK where involved with signing them

[spt_claret]

Maybe its proof that Kompany isn't solely think about profit. I doubt he finished last season thinking Zaroury and Benson werent going to get any minutes. Personally, I don't think he expected Odobert and Koleosho to hit the ground running so quickly but once they did it was hard to revert back.
Also, by the time Benson got fit, wed gone through the spell of shipping goals left right and centre so we'd gone into a tighter 442 with JBG sitting in a very disciplined role on the right. I dont see how Benson then fits into the system unless coming off the bench really

So why isn't Benson coming off the bench then? Or even making it, given he's allegedly been fit over a month?
We were 2-0 down vs Everton, crying out for a goal. Benson proved last year he's got that ability to conjure a goal from nothing off the bench, time after time after time.
Comes on near the death.
Tresor gets chance after chance, Zaroury's never been back near the side. Almost like we desperately need Tresor to start delivering to start recovering his purchase price, rather than we just need *a player* to start delivering, whoever they may be.
Ramsay's cost us multiple goals and had more chances than Zaroury or Benson.
I can understand not starting Benson even if I'm not thrilled at JBG starting as a winger anymore- Gudmundsson's more a CM to me but has been important and productive when he's played this year. But he's not even being used as a sub. Our use of subs in general has been poor this season and it just seems to be a rolling rota of new arrivals getting cameo minutes, or maybe 30-40 mins if lucky, as like-for-like swaps.

[CoolClaret]

You can’t compare figo ballon d’or winner going to Real Madrid form Barcelona to a club like Burnley potentially cashing in on a nearly 27 year old for potentially double or triple the money, it’s not a fair comparison at all

‘Cashing in on a 27 year old’ EXACTLY he’s 27! Christ almighty, plenty of life in him yet - how much for? If it’s anything less than 8 mill I would not be interested one bit.

You’re only going to have to find another player - what’s the point? Why not just use him as a very skilful, dangerous winger?

The comparison was there saying players don’t fall off a cliff at 27 - especially those that aren’t overtly reliant on characteristics like straight line sprint speed.

[spt_claret]

You can’t compare figo ballon d’or winner going to Real Madrid form Barcelona to a club like Burnley potentially cashing in on a nearly 27 year old for potentially double or triple the money, it’s not a fair comparison at all

You're doing it again. What is your problem?
When did I remotely mention Figo's transfer?
It was all about how players don't suddenly fall off a cliff at 27, and how Benson easily has a few quality years left which Burnley could benefit from on the pitch, AND still likely recoup the same money or even a profit on, at say, 29- especially if in those intervening years he's delivered in the Premier League.
You're literally inventing points I've not made and repeatedly denied making, to try pretend you're smart and have won the argument and so we obviously should sell Benson or whatever. Seriously knock it off, it's so tiresome and dishonest.
For the 5th time- I am not saying Manuel Benson is remotely as good as Luis Figo, Pavel Nedved, Riyad Mahrez or Jack Grealish, I am not remotely saying loaning him to Hull is the same as Figo moving between Real & Barca.
Stop the misrepresentation.

[ClaretPete001]

If we’re relegated there won’t be a fire sale. A couple will inevitably leave (plus Jay, Cork and squad fillers deemed not good enough), a few will be loaned but most will remain.

It’s a completely different scenario than following the last relegation. We’re building something not starting from scratch.

How do you know?

The players will have relegation clauses and potentially big wage deductions in their contracts. There is a decent sized drop in the broadcast revenue received from the PL and the debt is much higher this time around.

[123EasyasBFC]

‘Cashing in on a 27 year old’ EXACTLY he’s 27! Christ almighty, plenty of life in him yet - how much for? If it’s anything less than 8 mill I would not be interested one bit.

You’re only going to have to find another player - what’s the point? Why not just use him as a very skilful, dangerous winger?

The comparison was there saying players don’t fall off a cliff at 27 - especially those that aren’t overtly reliant on characteristics like straight line sprint speed.

But again you can’t compare this players they referred to and the clubs they where playing at and sold to, if the model is to sell players for profit then a player like benson is the exact profile they will look to cash in on whilst they can, kompany made a reference last season that benson needs to be 100% to be the real benson so there is every chance with the amount of injuries he gets and has had that they don’t feel like he will ever be the 100% benson

[spt_claret]

How does being ok with benson being sold mean your an ALK fan, it’s a very strange argument to make, that’s like saying you must not be fans of likes of foster or odobert because ALK where involved with signing them

Because you're deliberately misrepresenting my points so you can chortle "HAW HAW, THIS IDIOT CAN'T POSSIBLY THINK THIS, WHAT A FOOL" and dismiss criticism of this decision. I've never seen you say anything against ALK's decisions, so forgive me for feeling like you're acting like you have some compulsion to side with whatever they, or the club, decide, at all times.
You CAN support Burnley without agreeing with every single decision the club makes and suddenly deciding our biggest individual points-winning player from last year is now obsolete because he's a decrepit 26 and engaging in circular reasoning that he's not up to it because he doesn't play because he's not up to it in lieu of ever getting a chance.

[CoolClaret]

But again you can’t compare this players they referred to and the clubs they where playing at and sold to, if the model is to sell players for profit then a player like benson is the exact profile they will look to cash in on whilst they can, kompany made a reference last season that benson needs to be 100% to be the real benson so there is every chance with the amount of injuries he gets and has had that they don’t feel like he will ever be the 100% benson

Yeah and my retort to it all is that it's not gonna end well when you have a converyor belt of anyone whos ever done anything for Burnley being sold after one season of half decent play.

The days of a Tarky type knowingly going OOC and still absolutely leaving it all on the pitch every game is gonna be long gone. You keen for this? Because i aint

[spt_claret]

But again you can’t compare this players they referred to and the clubs they where playing at and sold to, if the model is to sell players for profit then a player like benson is the exact profile they will look to cash in on whilst they can, kompany made a reference last season that benson needs to be 100% to be the real benson so there is every chance with the amount of injuries he gets and has had that they don’t feel like he will ever be the 100% benson

I refer you to my earlier post, since the mere mention of Figo clearly meant you couldn't bear to read the rest:

The players who we need to focus on selling for a profit, are, rather frustratingly, the ones who've just arrived on big fees, replaced Benson & Zaroury, and not offered much so far. The sheer expense they came for requires we either recover it from them, or recover it from other players and then at some point break about even on them. Which again leaves me lost by the way the model is working in practice. Surely if you have a couple wingers playing brilliantly in the Championship, you do one of two things:
1- Sell them that very first summer at peak value, if you think they can't hack it, to fund replacements without the replacements having as much pressure on appreciating value and providing ROI because they've already been funded.
2- Play them, focus on strengthening elsewhere, and provided they don't absolutely stink up the pitch you'll probably still turn a profit on them even on relegation as they've put themselves in the shop window in the Prem, on a small fee.

Koleosho makes sense under the model. The other wingers, even Odobert, less so. Leaves me scratching my head as to the thinking behind our summer business and our team selection, and why the players proven to deliver for us are the ones we want to loan out or sell, rather than the likes of Ramsey who's looking far too raw for the Prem (so again, why sign him right now, but...)

[123EasyasBFC]

You're doing it again. What is your problem?
When did I remotely mention Figo's transfer?
It was all about how players don't suddenly fall off a cliff at 27, and how Benson easily has a few quality years left which Burnley could benefit from on the pitch, AND still likely recoup the same money or even a profit on, at say, 29- especially if in those intervening years he's delivered in the Premier League.
You're literally inventing points I've not made and repeatedly denied making, to try pretend you're smart and have won the argument and so we obviously should sell Benson or whatever. Seriously knock it off, it's so tiresome and dishonest.
For the 5th time- I am not saying Manuel Benson is remotely as good as Luis Figo, Pavel Nedved, Riyad Mahrez or Jack Grealish, I am not remotely saying loaning him to Hull is the same as Figo moving between Real & Barca.
Stop the misrepresentation.

How do you know though that benson won’t fall off a cliff, just because players at the level of figo and nedved didn’t doesn’t mean that a player like benson won’t, we aren’t a club that can afford to take risks on players not being the same players after injuries, people seem to find it hard that understanding the model of selling players for profit and benson fits the profile to sell, doesn’t mean your a supporter of the model and ALK but you can still be ok with it

[RVclaret]

How do you know?

The players will have relegation clauses and potentially big wage deductions in their contracts. There is a decent sized drop in the broadcast revenue received from the PL and the debt is much higher this time around.

You question how someone knows something then go and state a load of stuff as facts that you don’t know

[spt_claret]

How do you know though that benson won’t fall off a cliff, just because players at the level of figo and nedved didn’t doesn’t mean that a player like benson won’t, we aren’t a club that can afford to take risks on players not being the same players after injuries, people seem to find it hard that understanding the model of selling players for profit and benson fits the profile to sell, doesn’t mean your a supporter of the model and ALK but you can still be ok with it

How do you know he will? It's Chicken Little this, deciding the sky's falling and he's already washed because he had an injury at the start of the season.
He's literally not been given a chance in the Prem.
Tresor's had far more chances than he has, how do you know hes ever going to come good to recoup his investment? We can't afford to not play him in case he depreciates, but by your own logic can we afford to keep playing him as how d'you know he'll ever make it? Ditto Ramsey? Or Larsen, who even if he's produced 2 goals has been hit-miss?
You're jumping the gun on Benson being finished when he's had less of a chance to show if he's up to it than all of the above. It's like how Zaroury's been written off on the back of one game vs Bournemouth. If we're writing him off we honestly may as well write off every player every time they get an injury or have a bad game.

[123EasyasBFC]

Yeah and my retort to it all is that it's not gonna end well when you have a converyor belt of anyone whos ever done anything for Burnley being sold after one season of half decent play.

The days of a Tarky type knowingly going OOC and still absolutely leaving it all on the pitch every game is gonna be long gone. You keen for this? Because i aint

I understand the sentiment of players seeing out their contracts and coming back to rounds of applause like Tarky did, but What did tarky staying till the end of his contract do for us? Absolutely nothing we missed out on 30m and still ended up getting relegated

The whole point I’m making is you are allowed to still think benson was good for us and still be understanding and ok with the decision to let him go with the current model, what is the point in getting yourself worked up about the model of selling players, it’s clearly not going to change

[Goliath]

So why isn't Benson coming off the bench then? Or even making it, given he's allegedly been fit over a month?
We were 2-0 down vs Everton, crying out for a goal. Benson proved last year he's got that ability to conjure a goal from nothing off the bench, time after time after time.
Comes on near the death.
Tresor gets chance after chance, Zaroury's never been back near the side. Almost like we desperately need Tresor to start delivering to start recovering his purchase price, rather than we just need *a player* to start delivering, whoever they may be.
Ramsay's cost us multiple goals and had more chances than Zaroury or Benson.
I can understand not starting Benson even if I'm not thrilled at JBG starting as a winger anymore- Gudmundsson's more a CM to me but has been important and productive when he's played this year. But he's not even being used as a sub. Our use of subs in general has been poor this season and it just seems to be a rolling rota of new arrivals getting cameo minutes, or maybe 30-40 mins if lucky, as like-for-like swaps.

I've no idea, as far as i'm aware hes been injured for most of the season so thats a large part of it. But if we were thinking of making a profit above anything else then surely wed be at least giving him cameos. If anything it seems to show that VK is thinking about more than just potential profit.
I can only think he doesnt trust Benson to put the work in and he doesnt show enough in training, but obviously thats pure guesswork.

[ClaretPete001]

But again you can’t compare this players they referred to and the clubs they where playing at and sold to, if the model is to sell players for profit then a player like benson is the exact profile they will look to cash in on whilst they can, kompany made a reference last season that benson needs to be 100% to be the real benson so there is every chance with the amount of injuries he gets and has had that they don’t feel like he will ever be the 100% benson

His contract does not expire until after the 2027 season.

So, you think someone is going to pay a lot more than £4 million and improve the players wages for a less than 100 per cent Manuel Benson?

Is everyone thick in the football business apart from us?

[ecc]

Sick to my back teeth of posts like this. You know full well what you're doing, being deliberately stupid to deliberately reframe what I'm saying.
At what point did I ever say Benson was as good as them? Never.
My point is entirely about player development.
Let's take another one- Marc Pugh. He didn't play in the Premier League until he was 28 and had a good couple years.
Or Junior Stanislas- his best season for goals in the Prem he was 27, he had another good year at 28.

This trend of people refusing to engage with posts so disingenously going "You can't possibly be saying XYZ" to dismiss the other person is toxic as hell and needs to stop. I'm not saying that, you bloody know it, knock it off.

I genuinely feel sorry for you.

I'll give you one some people might treat with a little bit more respect (said he in hope).

McGinn at Villa. Although he was just under 25 when he played first in the PL I think most people would agree he really started to push on at 26 or 27.

[123EasyasBFC]

How do you know he will? It's Chicken Little this, deciding the sky's falling and he's already washed because he had an injury at the start of the season.
He's literally not been given a chance in the Prem.
Tresor's had far more chances than he has, how do you know hes ever going to come good to recoup his investment? We can't afford to not play him in case he depreciates, but by your own logic can we afford to keep playing him as how d'you know he'll ever make it? Ditto Ramsey? Or Larsen, who even if he's produced 2 goals has been hit-miss?
You're jumping the gun on Benson being finished when he's had less of a chance to show if he's up to it than all of the above. It's like how Zaroury's been written off on the back of one game vs Bournemouth. If we're writing him off we honestly may as well write off every player every time they get an injury or have a bad game.

Nobody knows if he will or won’t but the club obviously think something
Tresor - he is a left winger got 24 assists from the left so starting him on the right made no sense
Ramsey - 21 year old, more central or left sided so how’s he a fair comparison
Larsen - I have actually been impressed with him on the right, his work rate and technical ability and turn of pace, just needs more match fitness
Zaroury- again left sided player who can play central, I believe has more celling then benson

[CoolClaret]

This thread shows my exact concerns -

I find it so bizarre how people that were probably calling Zaroury / Benson absolute world beaters last year are now so quick to want to get rid of them.

Tred f**king lightly guys - this isn't the Burnley FC that we've all grown to love.

Buying players in the sole hope that they may return money and pushing the finances so that we then have to sell existing players that still have something to offer just to finance the new arrivals is ******* stupid.

Literally no club does this and has long term success with it - not one and no, even Brighton aren't as daft as to sell anyone and everyone.

[123EasyasBFC]

His contract does not expire until after the 2027 season.

So, you think someone is going to pay a lot more than £4 million and improve the players wages for a less than 100 per cent Manuel Benson?

Is everyone thick in the football business apart from us?

The 100% is what kompany feels is 100% in benson

[spt_claret]

I genuinely feel sorry for you.

I'll give you one some people might treat with a little bit more respect (said he in hope).

McGinn at Villa. Although he was just under 25 when he played first in the PL I think most people would agree he really started to push on at 26 or 27.

Thank you!

Some people honestly seem to think it's exactly like Football Manager. Scout a player who gets 5 star potential rated, check his stats if they're good now, stick him in and watch the numbers go up. I love Football Manager, I play a lot of it, and its scouting database is even used by several pro clubs now because of the sheer number of scouts they have, but it's really not comparable to reality. In Football Manager, a player pretty much stops developing at 24-25. In reality, you get some players don't even peak til around 30. Real life player development is extremely nonstandard and nonlinear.

[123EasyasBFC]

I genuinely feel sorry for you.

I'll give you one some people might treat with a little bit more respect (said he in hope).

McGinn at Villa. Although he was just under 25 when he played first in the PL I think most people would agree he really started to push on at 26 or 27.

Again you can’t compare McGinn, completely different positions

[CoolClaret]

I understand the sentiment of players seeing out their contracts and coming back to rounds of applause like Tarky did, but What did tarky staying till the end of his contract do for us? Absolutely nothing we missed out on 30m and still ended up getting relegated

The whole point I’m making is you are allowed to still think benson was good for us and still be understanding and ok with the decision to let him go with the current model, what is the point in getting yourself worked up about the model of selling players, it’s clearly not going to change

CHRIST ALMIGHTY - I'm not wanting every player to leave on a ******* free - I'm saying even having that attitude to do so instead of downing tools is the culture that we created and we're going to go a long way away from that with this approach!

Tarkys performances kept us up in the PL for seasons that returned far more than 30 mill ever would - not to mention not having to buy new centre halves every season/other season!

[spt_claret]

Nobody knows if he will or won’t but the club obviously think something
Tresor - he is a left winger got 24 assists from the left so starting him on the right made no sense
Ramsey - 21 year old, more central or left sided so how’s he a fair comparison
Larsen - I have actually been impressed with him on the right, his work rate and technical ability and turn of pace, just needs more match fitness
Zaroury- again left sided player who can play central, I believe has more celling then benson

Not disagreeing! You realise that what you've just said here is that none of these players save Larsen are competition for Benson on the right?
What you've just said weakens the argument against playing him or at least having him on the bench like last season, his party trick was coming on to score 25 yarders and our subs have barely ever impacted the game this season.

[123EasyasBFC]

This thread shows my exact concerns -

I find it so bizarre how people that were probably calling Zaroury / Benson absolute world beaters last year are now so quick to want to get rid of them.

Tred f**king lightly guys - this isn't the Burnley FC that we've all grown to love.

Buying players in the sole hope that they may return money and pushing the finances so that we then have to sell existing players that still have something to offer just to finance the new arrivals is ******* stupid.

Literally no club does this and has long term success with it - not one and no, even Brighton aren't as daft as to sell anyone and everyone.

You are getting yourself worked up over something that won’t change, Brighton don’t keep players for sentiment value and to see how many years they can be at Brighton for, they keep them till they get the fee they want for them

[123EasyasBFC]

Not disagreeing! You realise that what you've just said here is that none of these players save Larsen are competition for Benson on the right?
What you've just said weakens the argument against playing him or at least having him on the bench like last season, his party trick was coming on to score 25 yarders and our subs have barely ever impacted the game this season.

I haven’t once said he shouldn’t play, all along I have said you are able to be abit gutted about him leaving and thinking he’s a good player but be able to understand why the club might be looking to sell him and give reasons as to why the club might be selling him, which is all I’m doing

[CoolClaret]

You are getting yourself worked up over something that won’t change, Brighton don’t keep players for sentiment value and to see how many years they can be at Brighton for, they keep them till they get the fee they want for them

Still have Lewis Dunk, Lallana, Pascal Gross and Danny Welbeck playing in their Starting XI, no?

They've all been there for a significant amount of time.

[spt_claret]

CHRIST ALMIGHTY - I'm not wanting every player to leave on a ******* free - I'm saying even having that attitude to do so instead of downing tools is the culture that we created and we're going to go a long way away from that with this approach!

Tarkys performances kept us up in the PL for seasons that returned far more than 30 mill ever would - not to mention not having to buy new centre halves every season/other season!

Exhausting innit? This is another 'debate' tactic I'm seeing more and more across the internet. Exhaust people into getting fed up so you can 'win' by attrition.

Somehow if you compare players peaking in their late 20s that means you're saying Benson's a Ballon Dor winner, no context involved.
Somehow if you question the logic in NOT playing a player when he's in peak form, OR selling him when he's at peak value, but instead benching/dropping him for a rotating roster of underperforming big money arrivals, then moving him out on loan/sale 6 months after he was on a high and being rumoured with links to big clubs in Europe...that means you don't understand the concept of buying to sell at profit.
Somehow if you suggest that the transfer model might be better served by letting the cheaper Championship high performers get in the shop window at the level above because you're at least still not going to make a loss on them and don't have to sell 18 months into a 5 year contract, you're wanting everyone to leave on a Bosman.

Forget up is down left is right, up is green and left is apples.

[123EasyasBFC]

Still have Lewis Dunk, Lallana, Pascal Gross and Danny Welbeck playing in their Starting XI, no?

They've all been there for a significant amount of time.

Right and we still have Taylor, cork, brownhill and jay rod? We had to rebuild a brand new squad last season.

Lallana only been there 2 seasons so roberts would count similar to lallana

[123EasyasBFC]

CHRIST ALMIGHTY - I'm not wanting every player to leave on a ******* free - I'm saying even having that attitude to do so instead of downing tools is the culture that we created and we're going to go a long way away from that with this approach!

Tarkys performances kept us up in the PL for seasons that returned far more than 30 mill ever would - not to mention not having to buy new centre halves every season/other season!

One of the centre halves we signed decided to jump ship after one season in Collins

[spt_claret]

I haven’t once said he shouldn’t play, all along I have said you are able to be abit gutted about him leaving and thinking he’s a good player but be able to understand why the club might be looking to sell him and give reasons as to why the club might be selling him, which is all I’m doing

The whole point of this frustration is- why is he being moved on rather than played or at least given a chance to see if he can step up, because both from an on-pitch perspective he was HUGELY effective last year especially as an impact sub, and from a transfer model perspective you're more likely to get better money for him if he delivers the goods in the Prem and given how relatively cheap he was you're unlikely to lose money on him even if he struggles- because a lot of Championship promotion-chasing clubs will likely figure he might just need another chance, different system, to step up, or if they don't go up now figure he's a good promotion fighter for next year.

I don't see how it benefits the sell-at-profit model or our on pitch performances to take last season's most impactful player, have him fit for a month, and not play him at all while instead looking to move him on, 6 months AFTER his peak transfer value.

It points to 1 of 2 things to me- a fallout, or some incomprehensible demands based around playing the expensive new arrivals. Because unless he's absolutely garbage in training I can't see how the guy who did what he did for us last season can be fit and not warrant a sub now.

[CoolClaret]

Exhausting innit? This is another 'debate' tactic I'm seeing more and more across the internet. Exhaust people into getting fed up so you can 'win' by attrition.

Somehow if you compare players peaking in their late 20s that means you're saying Benson's a Ballon Dor winner, no context involved.
Somehow if you question the logic in NOT playing a player when he's in peak form, OR selling him when he's at peak value, but instead benching/dropping him for a rotating roster of underperforming big money arrivals, then moving him out on loan/sale 6 months after he was on a high and being rumoured with links to big clubs in Europe...that means you don't understand the concept of buying to sell at profit.
Somehow if you suggest that the transfer model might be better served by letting the cheaper Championship high performers get in the shop window at the level above because you're at least still not going to make a loss on them and don't have to sell 18 months into a 5 year contract, you're wanting everyone to leave on a Bosman.

Forget up is down left is right, up is green and left is apples.

It's very boring - I only bother really posting on here as I think there are at least some serious posters but I can't do with the deliberate misrepresentation

It's extremely tiresome and very dishonest - come on how old are we? Christ take the 'gotchas' to X.com or faceache. Boring on here

[123EasyasBFC]

The whole point of this frustration is- why is he being moved on rather than played or at least given a chance to see if he can step up, because both from an on-pitch perspective he was HUGELY effective last year especially as an impact sub, and from a transfer model perspective you're more likely to get better money for him if he delivers the goods in the Prem and given how relatively cheap he was you're unlikely to lose money on him even if he struggles- because a lot of Championship promotion-chasing clubs will likely figure he might just need another chance, different system, to step up, or if they don't go up now figure he's a good promotion fighter for next year.

I don't see how it benefits the sell-at-profit model or our on pitch performances to take last season's most impactful player, have him fit for a month, and not play him at all while instead looking to move him on, 6 months AFTER his peak transfer value.

It points to 1 of 2 things to me- a fallout, or some incomprehensible demands based around playing the expensive new arrivals. Because unless he's absolutely garbage in training I can't see how the guy who did what he did for us last season can be fit and not warrant a sub now.

Nobody knows but there has to be some reason behind it from the club and kompanys side