Arijanet Muric

[Claretmisterg]

It's a fairly close call between Trafford and Muric - a case can be made for either. I don't know why some people can't just leave it at that rather than trying to be so divisive. Both have strengths but also a careless mistake in them - as we have seen with Trafford and we saw last night with Muric for Spurs' goal.

Just so. They both have their relative strengths and weaknesses hence the longevity of the debate. It is not as clear cut as when Heaton came in for Hart and totally re-galvanised the team.

[123EasyasBFC]

I think in comparison to Muric he’s incredibly calm. Muric is erratic he does things that can’t be predicted.

Whilst everyone was raving in the first half all I thought was we looked so shaky at the back, and a lot of that was because Muric was putting players (that aren’t good enough to play this way) under a lot of pressure with poor passes. The one that stood out to me was a hospital pass to Ramsey in the first half (on the edge of our box) where Kulevski was touch tight to him.

That kind of pass is because he’s erratic.

If I’m honest I’m not sure there’s a lot between the two keepers but after last night I totally understand why VK dropped Muric.

So the hospital pass Trafford played to Berge in first minute of season half against Fulham makes him erratic to.

I would argue Muric has a calmer personality than Trafford, didn’t once see Muric over celebrate anything after a win last season.

The main reason is the shot stopping and it’s hard to tell whether had Muric have started in games we would have ended conceding as many chances.

Had we not signed a keeper and had Muric BPF and Vig as a 3 nobody would have been saying in the summer ‘we need a new keeper’

[Newcastleclaret93]

So the hospital pass Trafford played to Berge in first minute of season half against Fulham makes him erratic to.

I would argue Muric has a calmer personality than Trafford, didn’t once see Muric over celebrate anything after a win last season.

The main reason is the shot stopping and it’s hard to tell whether had Muric have started in games we would have ended conceding as many chances.

Had we not signed a keeper and had Muric BPF and Vig as a 3 nobody would have been saying in the summer ‘we need a new keeper’

If you look back there was actually quite a few posters saying we needed a keeper.

I think one thing we can all be certain off, this mess is not because of which keeper is in net though. It’s about our poor transfer window

[kentonclaret]

I don't want to do the comparison, but....

Muric has a presence.

He certainly provided Porro with a late Xmas present

[CoolClaret]

One left Man City for 4 million the other 18 million.

That tells a tale

One actually played for City, the other didn't

Tells a tale

OR we just judge players for what they do in a Burnley shirt, and how the team operates with them in.

[CoolClaret]

Watch how Trent drills balls into feet when playing for Liverpool btw - top players do that when they pass a ball.

Then watch some of the balls he put into Amdouni bypassing the midfield. Special, special talent.

Genuinely think his vision is world class.

[Cooclaret]

That means absolutely nothing, we paid 2m for koleosho and 15m for Tresor

Both at the same club, one of the most successful clubs in the world, managed by a world class coaching setup.

Their opinion of both players, who after being recruited, coached, scrutinised was that one was worth a considerable amount more than the other, indicates to me that they feel Trafford is a better keeper, person and professional than Muric.

I’ll bow to the experts in their field.

[Cooclaret]

Watch how Trent drills balls into feet when playing for Liverpool btw - top players do that when they pass a ball.

Then watch some of the balls he put into Amdouni bypassing the midfield. Special, special talent.

Genuinely think his vision is world class.

Are you mad? You think our second string keeper has the vision of a world class player…

Christ on a bike. Thats some stretch.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Watch how Trent drills balls into feet when playing for Liverpool btw - top players do that when they pass a ball.

Then watch some of the balls he put into Amdouni bypassing the midfield. Special, special talent.

Genuinely think his vision is world class.

Best judge will be the clubs they end up going to.

I suspect Muric will be back in Turkey by the end of the summer.

[123EasyasBFC]

Both at the same club, one of the most successful clubs in the world, managed by a world class coaching setup.

Their opinion of both players, who after being recruited, coached, scrutinised was that one was worth a considerable amount more than the other, indicates to me that they feel Trafford is a better keeper, person and professional than Muric.

I’ll bow to the experts in their field.

You would argue then that they keep muric at the club until he was 23/24 and gave him opportunities in the first team and decided to let Trafford go aged 21, a team who is always looking to keep home grown players around for champions league Registration purposes, why would they let a 21 year old leave

[123EasyasBFC]

It’s all opinion, in mine I don’t think we would be sitting 19th in the table on 11 points had muric started all the premier league games, I think we would be comfortably out the relegation zone. That isn’t a negative on Trafford because he isn’t the reason we are in the position we are in but I feel the back 5 would of been better as a collective with Muric

[Newcastleclaret93]

It’s all opinion, in mine I don’t think we would be sitting 19th in the table on 11 points had muric started all the premier league games, I think we would be comfortably out the relegation zone. That isn’t a negative on Trafford because he isn’t the reason we are in the position we are in but I feel the back 5 would of been better as a collective with Muric

I just can’t see that at all. The whole team is too poor. I suspect we would have been in exactly the same position

[123EasyasBFC]

I just can’t see that at all. The whole team is too poor. I suspect we would have been in exactly the same position

Yeah and it’s fine for you to think differently, we will never know either

[Anthonini]

Watch how Trent drills balls into feet when playing for Liverpool btw - top players do that when they pass a ball.

Then watch some of the balls he put into Amdouni bypassing the midfield. Special, special talent.

Genuinely think his vision is world class.

I really think so too his passing is lovely at times but he's not a world class shot stopper which Trafford is who reminds me of Petr Cech or Courtois. Not the best passers but cold as ice. Knowing when to hold on to a ball and when to go fast. And winning games for their teams catching everything. Being a human wall is better than a mad man as a GK for me. Not making mistakes is also a great quality.

[willsclarets]

His aerial presence last night was misleading, if you take the quality of the crosses into account.
Which were absolutely woeful from spurs. They were more or less all catching practice with no one anywhere near him. Contrast that with mitoma and gross at Brighton for example, which were all whipped with pace dipping from just over head height.

The appraisal of muric right now would be very different in my opinion.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

One thing I will say about Muric last night was the high floaty listless chips to either fullback or into midfield where we inevitably cough up possession were largely absent last night

[CoolClaret]

I really think so too his passing is lovely at times but he's not a world class shot stopper which Trafford is who reminds me of Petr Cech or Courtois. Not the best passers but cold as ice. Knowing when to hold on to a ball and when to go fast. And winning games for their teams catching everything. Being a human wall is better than a mad man as a GK for me. Not making mistakes is also a great quality.

That's fine and it's a valid point/argument.

Mien all along is that we're a better unit/collective with Aro and that's all I'm ultimately arsed about.

Which players give Burnley the best chance of winning a game of football.

[123EasyasBFC]

His aerial presence last night was misleading, if you take the quality of the crosses into account.
Which were absolutely woeful from spurs. They were more or less all catching practice with no one anywhere near him. Contrast that with mitoma and gross at Brighton for example, which were all whipped with pace dipping from just over head height.

The appraisal of muric right now would be very different in my opinion.

So anything good muric does is misleading due to the opposition being poor? Had Trafford placed last night and commanded his area like Muric did, fans would be all over threads saying what an improve it was from Trafford commanding his area, we all know Trafford isn’t going to lose the number 1 shirt but can still think muric in the 4 games he has played this season has also shown how he hasn’t done anything to warrant not being number 1

[CoolClaret]

So anything good muric does is misleading due to the opposition being poor? Had Trafford placed last night and commanded his area like Muric did, fans would be all over threads saying what an improve it was from Trafford commanding his area, we all know Trafford isn’t going to lose the number 1 shirt but can still think muric in the 4 games he has played this season has also shown how he hasn’t done anything to warrant not being number 1

The narrative before was that "well he can't play through the press against better opposition, any keeper could do it for Burnley in the champ" - certainly set that one straight last night

[South West Claret.]

Personally I thought his general keeping was fine throughout.

[willsclarets]

So anything good muric does is misleading due to the opposition being poor? Had Trafford placed last night and commanded his area like Muric did, fans would be all over threads saying what an improve it was from Trafford commanding his area, we all know Trafford isn’t going to lose the number 1 shirt but can still think muric in the 4 games he has played this season has also shown how he hasn’t done anything to warrant not being number 1

Where did I say everything muric does is misleading? Actually engage with what I did say. Was spurs delivery I to the box last night good or bad? I think it was terrible, and that has to be taken into account when you're appraising how well a keeper did aerially.

For what it's worth I think muric was good last night. Some nice saves and his passing is a lot crisper than Traffords. So before assuming I have some kind of agenda don't put words in my mouth

[123EasyasBFC]

The narrative before was that "well he can't play through the press against better opposition, any keeper could do it for Burnley in the champ" - certainly set that one straight last night

Which also makes the decision to not think Trafford was ready to play championship football last season so we signed muric instead even stranger

[NewClaret]

He’s had no first team action for sometime but I thought he did really well. I’m usually nervous when the opposition are taking corners but with Muric in goal last night I felt much more confident. Trafford’s done well but Muric is far better at distribution and that could play a big part over the remaining games.

Just a word on our defending at corners (agree Muric looked solid), but I actually think we defend them and set pieces much better than we give them credit for. Yes we’ve conceded a few goals from them this year but I doubt a l doubt a lot more than other teams in the bottom half.

Big test in Luton coming up though.

[123EasyasBFC]

Where did I say everything muric does is misleading? Actually engage with what I did say. Was spurs delivery I to the box last night good or bad? I think it was terrible, and that has to be taken into account when you're appraising how well a keeper did aerially.

For what it's worth I think muric was good last night. Some nice saves and his passing is a lot crisper than Traffords. So before assuming I have some kind of agenda don't put words in my mouth

You said his presence was misleading which is putting a negative spin on his performance straight away when if it had been Trafford last night out outpour of positive comments that would have arrived had he commanded his area. Where did I say the word ‘everything’

[Nori1958]

It’s all opinion, in mine I don’t think we would be sitting 19th in the table on 11 points had muric started all the premier league games, I think we would be comfortably out the relegation zone. That isn’t a negative on Trafford because he isn’t the reason we are in the position we are in but I feel the back 5 would of been better as a collective with Muric

What would you base that assumption on?

If its Muric playing out from the back, how many goals have we scored in the last two games he's played against Premier league opposition? In fact how many chances did we make in those games? So how would we have got the points to be comfortably out of the relegation places?

[willsclarets]

You said his presence was misleading which is putting a negative spin on his performance straight away when if it had been Trafford last night out outpour of positive comments that would have arrived had he commanded his area. Where did I say the word ‘everything’

Ok you said "anything". Semantics. It wasn't a negative spin at all. I just said he played well. And my first post is simply balanced not negative. Why is it not reasonable to say that spurs crossing was abysmal when it clearly was. He dealt with them absolutely fine, but I should hope so.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

The pass out for the goal was stupid, they had just had a mad couple of minutes in our box with a few chances. The game needed slowing down and let us get back into shape, any decent goalkeeper having caught the ball would have fallen to the floor and allowed us to regroup, the last thing we needed was the ball to a player under pressure

If you take away his distribution, he had a good game, commanding his box and making some reasonable saves, albeit some resulting from his own poor distribution

A bit like the one in a recent home game near halftime where if Trafford picks it up instead of lolloping it out to O'Shea who in turn puts Berge under pressure that goal isn't conceded either

Both the goal last night and the one highlighted above were down in some part to keeper error ( ( not entirely, but in part )

[123EasyasBFC]

What would you base that assumption on?

If its Muric playing out from the back, how many goals have we scored in the last two games he's played against Premier league opposition? In fact how many chances did we make in those games? So how would we have got the points to be comfortably out of the relegation places?

I think the playing out from the back would of led to move passes going into midfield rather than going to O’Shea and Beyer which has caused us problems and I also think the defending of set pieces would have been better. I think muric would have brought an aura of confidence in the back line and we wouldn’t have been as shakey as we have been, again all in my opinion.

[123EasyasBFC]

Ok you said "anything". Semantics. It wasn't a negative spin at all. I just said he played well. And my first post is simply balanced not negative. Why is it not reasonable to say that spurs crossing was abysmal when it clearly was. He dealt with them absolutely fine, but I should hope so.

So when we we say Trafford made all these saves against Brighton, Fulham, Liverpool and Villa, should we just say well he’s a keeper so we should hope he saves those? That’s my point, muric made something look easy last night and it’s all about the opposition being poor, would those crosses last night have looked poor having Trafford stood on his line?

[Bigbopper]

Lets all get excited about how Muric played last night . He had an average game.

He made a couple of regulation saves.

He caught a number of poor crosses.

He takes 50% of the blame for the goal.

At times his distribution was adequate at times woeful.

[Nori1958]

I think the playing out from the back would of led to move passes going into midfield rather than going to O’Shea and Beyer which has caused us problems and I also think the defending of set pieces would have been better. I think muric would have brought an aura of confidence in the back line and we wouldn’t have been as shakey as we have been, again all in my opinion.

No problem with opinions.... Its just the facts don't back this one up

[Nori1958]

A bit like the one in a recent home game near halftime where if Trafford picks it up instead of lolloping it out to O'Shea who in turn puts Berge under pressure that goal isn't conceded either

Both the goal last night and the one highlighted above were down in some part to keeper error ( ( not entirely, but in part )

Correct

[123EasyasBFC]

No problem with opinions.... Its just the facts don't back this one up

How can an opinion have facts, how can you have facts behind it when there’s no possible way to have facts because we can’t replay all the games with muric in goal

[willsclarets]

So when we we say Trafford made all these saves against Brighton, Fulham, Liverpool and Villa, should we just say well he’s a keeper so we should hope he saves those? That’s my point, muric made something look easy last night and it’s all about the opposition being poor, would those crosses last night have looked poor having Trafford stood on his line?

I judge something based on its merit. If Trafford makes a save I think he should make I'll say that. I do think Trafford has been poor aerially this season, too. But Muric made his aerial presence look easy last night because it was. I'm not trying to be "pro trafford" comparing spurs crossing to Brighton away, it was just night and day the balls into the box we had to deal with.

[123EasyasBFC]

And Trafford might well of caught all the crosses last night and made it look easy but the point is if he had of played and caught everything, everyone would be saying how well he played and he is improving in the air but because muric caught everything with ease it’s because the quality of crossing was poor, it’s almost like people don’t want to give Muric credit

[willsclarets]

And Trafford might well of caught all the crosses last night and made it look easy but the point is if he had of played and caught everything, everyone would be saying how well he played and he is improving in the air but because muric caught everything with ease it’s because the quality of crossing was poor, it’s almost like people don’t want to give Muric credit

Ok well you're making that assumption about my opinion, and it's false. I do think Trafford has improved a hell of a lot in the last 5 or 6 games, and has more potential than Muric. But I would agree that the shirt should have been Murics to lose at the start of the season. One of many mistakes I think VK made over the summer and into the start if the campaign imo.

[Nori1958]

How can an opinion have facts, how can you have facts behind it when there’s no possible way to have facts because we can’t replay all the games with muric in goal

But the ones he's played in haven't made the results anymore positive. Those type of facts

For what it's worth my opinion is if Muric had played all season, our goals against would have been around the same. Our goals scored would have been around the same.

The reason why we are where we are is not down to who plays in goal.

[123EasyasBFC]

Ok well you're making that assumption about my opinion, and it's false. I do think Trafford has improved a hell of a lot in the last 5 or 6 games, and has more potential than Muric. But I would agree that the shirt should have been Murics to lose at the start of the season. One of many mistakes I think VK made over the summer and into the start if the campaign imo.

I think as a keeper with muric being 25 still has as much potential, there is far less muric has to work on than Trafford, Muric has natural ability with his feet.

But Trafford is number one in kompanys eyes and that won’t change unless Trafford gets an injury

[123EasyasBFC]

But the ones he's played in haven't made the results anymore positive. Those type of facts

For what it's worth my opinion is if Muric had played all season, our goals against would have been around the same. Our goals scored would have been around the same.

The reason why we are where we are is not down to who plays in goal.

How have there not been positive in the 4 games muric has played? We won 2 out of 4, kept 2 clean sheets, only conceded 4 goals in the 4 games he’s played, are they not positive? I don’t understand how you can’t see any positives in the 4 games he’s played

You can’t base it on facts because muric hasn’t played in the league, you can have an opinion without needing facts

[Big Vinny K]

Another divisive thread on this subject which has been done to death.
Silly comments like when Trafford makes the types of saves Muric did last night he parries it back to forwards and Muric parries out to safety. I must be watching a different game because I pretty sure the way Trafford saves these shots is virtually identical to Muric - almost like they may have the same goalkeeping coach ?

Muric cost us the goal in the same way that Traffird did with a stupid throw when Maddison scored against us on the Turf. They both made poor mistakes and bad decisions and most fans who don’t have the extreme bias a few on this forum show would say there is little between both keepers and in truth they both have at least one big mistake in them in most games….and in this league that is going to hurt you time and time again.

[bumba]

You have explained the difference between Muric and Trafford really where Trafford slows the game down so much there is no clear pass available to any of our players and the opposition is set up .. Muric however has a wide range of accurate passing that can catch out other teams .. Muric didn’t have to make that many saves against a good team like spurs and how refreshing was it to see him cooly collecting from corners or high balls into the box … Trafford is nowhere near as good or confident with the ball at his feet .. I’d prefer Muric in nets against Luton

You and me both, he's currently the better all round goalkeeper. Muric should be number 1 in the shop window to sell in the summer at a huge profit with Trafford then trained up and ready to be number 1 after spending a season watching what Muric does.
For me the two centre backs and goalkeeper last night looked as solid as they have all season and this would be the way I'd be moving forward if we plan on survival

[Nori1958]

How have there not been positive in the 4 games muric has played? We won 2 out of 4, kept 2 clean sheets, only conceded 4 goals in the 4 games he’s played, are they not positive? I don’t understand how you can’t see any positives in the 4 games he’s played

You can’t base it on facts because muric hasn’t played in the league, you can have an opinion without needing facts

Let's not count Salford.... I said earlier.. The last two against prem teams... 0 goals... One game no shots on target in 90 mins, how many on target last night, and 4 goals against... Nothing there to suggest we'd be well clear of relegation

[bumba]

Let's not count Salford.... I said earlier.. The last two against prem teams... 0 goals... One game no shots on target in 90 mins, how many on target last night, and 4 goals against... Nothing there to suggest we'd be well clear of relegation

We lost 1-0 not 4-0

[123EasyasBFC]

Let's not count Salford.... I said earlier.. The last two against prem teams... 0 goals... One game no shots on target in 90 mins, how many on target last night, and 4 goals against... Nothing there to suggest we'd be well clear of relegation

So are you now choosing to ignore that there has been positives in the 4 games muric has played this season? You just want to count the last 2 he’s played?

Which performance against spurs this season did you prefer, last nights 1-0 defeat or the 5-2 defeat early on in the season

[Newcastleclaret93]

We lost 1-0 not 4-0

The last two games against prem teams for Muric

[Nori1958]

So are you now choosing to ignore that there has been positives in the 4 games muric has played this season? You just want to count the last 2 he’s played?

Which performance against spurs this season did you prefer, last nights 1-0 defeat or the 5-2 defeat early on in the season

I said positive results

The last two because they are the most relevant....Forest was 2nd game of the season, neither team settled in, and as for Salford, if you're using that to prove anything, you're trying too hard

I preferred last night, but at the end of the day we lost, which has been my point all season, Muric or Trafford.....the results are the same

[Nori1958]

We lost 1-0 not 4-0

Before jumping in, just sit back and look at what's being said....

[Dark Cloud]

Like all good goalies he's slightly eccentric and at times somewhat erratic, but I'll take that because he catches high crosses, can make instinctive saves, organises his defence and can pick a long pass like David Beckham. He can also win headers at corners! He still has his heart stopping moments, but Trafford has far more of them and Muric should be starting in my book.

[Nori1958]

Like all good goalies he's slightly eccentric and at times somewhat erratic, but I'll take that because he catches high crosses, can make instinctive saves, organises his defence and can pick a long pass like David Beckham. He can also win headers at corners! He still has his heart stopping moments, but Trafford has far more of them and Muric should be starting in my book.

Best header in the box last night

But if he's up for corners etc, it only means one thing

[123EasyasBFC]

I said positive results

The last two because they are the most relevant....Forest was 2nd game of the season, neither team settled in, and as for Salford, if you're using that to prove anything, you're trying too hard

I preferred last night, but at the end of the day we lost, which has been my point all season, Muric or Trafford.....the results are the same

You said in the games Muric has played but you only want to count 2 of the 4 he’s played, your whole argument is having a problem with my opinion because there’s no facts, you simply can’t have facts because Muric hasn’t played in the league, simply in my opinion we would have been a much more confident, harder to beat side from minute one of the season with Muric in goal but I also think there’s other decisions at the start the season that cost us points