Coming of age?

[NewClaret]

Always thought this young team would improve and look like a real Premier League team at some point in the season, but thought it’d happen sooner.

But felt today we really started to come of age. Down to 10 men, dug in, grabbed a point after a horrendous decision… caught back from going behind twice… away at Chelsea.

It’s too late of course, but O’Shea and Esteve looking like a partnership, ditto Cullen & Berge, midfield digging in, Muric back makes a big difference.

Great to see.

[ksrclaret]

Not sure it's a coming of age thing, rather than the manager finally getting our best players on a football pitch together.

[Vegas Claret]

when you consider Leicester the "best team the Championship has ever seen" went there in a one off game and got smashed I'm still 100% convinced this team is way better than last seasons, whatever happens the future is bright for us

[CoolClaret]

The back three were absolutely sensational.

[JimmyRobbo]

Coming of age?

The team today lacked many of those "youngsters". The average age of the final 10 on the pitch is probably quite experienced. JBG, JR, CT etc.

[ksrclaret]

Coming of age?

The team today lacked many of those "youngsters". The average age of the final 10 on the pitch is probably quite experienced. JBG, JR, CT etc.

Spot on.

Nothing to do with young players finally coming good and everything to do with experienced players showing why it was foolish to disregard them.

[FCBurnley]

Once VK realized the error of his ways and played Muric and Cullen who have both been magnificent we look like a team that can survive. If only he hadn’t been so obstinate !!!!

[expoultryboy]

Pity he didn't realise 10 games ago . We need to start with the "old heads " and use the likes of Odobert as an impact sub when required.

[AlargeClaret]

The old guard really stood up to be counted today with Jay/Brownhill/ Taylor/JBG on the pitch . True ,other players showed real fight in defence ,and oddly the starting XI had they stayed intact maybe well have been beaten . Main thing is the lift for the players and some belief . Could be a cracking atmosphere v Wolves .

[Vino blanco]

Once VK realized the error of his ways and played Muric and Cullen who have both been magnificent we look like a team that can survive. If only he hadn’t been so obstinate !!!!

This. It was madness not to start with Muric in goal.

[getbennyon]

Utter nonsense.

Muric back into the team, yes it really is that simple.

[ClaretPete001]

I think VK has been the big problem this season - it's as simple as that....!

The only really young player who played very well today and could be said to have improved over the season was Odobert. Esteve is young but he only arrived in January.

Cullen, Berg and O' Shea are really in their prime as players.

Had we evolved the team from last year and played with much more disciplined approach from the start we would not be in this situation.

Even today the shape looked much better when VKs hand was forced and we to had to bring on Taylor and go to a much deeper more disciplined two banks of four.

VKs decision to play a 4-3-3 at the start and to play Ramsey instead of Cullen and to persist with Trafford has really cost us. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

[Stayingup]

Some poor team selections at times yes and experience is a must in this division. But, we have been on the wrong end of some tight decisions. Some poor officiating has cost us points.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Not having a little boy in goal again today just proves what an embarrassing decision Trafford was all season.

[scouseclaret]

Not having a little boy in goal again today just proves what an embarrassing decision Trafford was all season.

Just hope Muric is ok or Trafford will be back on Tuesday night…

[StayingDown4Ever]

Just hope Muric is ok or Trafford will be back on Tuesday night…

Don’t scare people like that!

[NewClaret]

when you consider Leicester the "best team the Championship has ever seen" went there in a one off game and got smashed I'm still 100% convinced this team is way better than last seasons, whatever happens the future is bright for us

So am I.

Have felt that all season, albeit Cullen (who I thought deserved to be dropped tbf) and Muric (who I thought was unfairly dropped) have been big influences.

But I look at the quality of Odobert, Berge, Koleosho earlier in the season, Esteve is class, I personally think O’Shea is also very good, and I think this team is a lot better than last.

Just hope we can hold it together to find out!!

[NewClaret]

I think VK has been the big problem this season - it's as simple as that....!

The only really young player who played very well today and could be said to have improved over the season was Odobert. Esteve is young but he only arrived in January.

Cullen, Berg and O' Shea are really in their prime as players.

Had we evolved the team from last year and played with much more disciplined approach from the start we would not be in this situation.

Even today the shape looked much better when VKs hand was forced and we to had to bring on Taylor and go to a much deeper more disciplined two banks of four.

VKs decision to play a 4-3-3 at the start and to play Ramsey instead of Cullen and to persist with Trafford has really cost us. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

Can’t really argue with any of that but I do think we signed some young players with real potential (including Ramsey), just played too many of them together.

[Elizabeth]

We are getting there but is it too late frustratingly ?

[CoolClaret]

Can’t really argue with any of that but I do think we signed some young players with real potential (including Ramsey), just played too many of them together.

Like i've said all year though (and got pelters for it) anyone can do that, signing young players en masse... it's about having a balance and not trying to fix something that isn't broken.

The fact remains that a staggering % of our summer expenditure have arguably weakened the team when they have featured.

Yes talking Amdouni, Trafford, Ramsey, Tresor - that's really poor no matter what way you look at it... Talking £65 or so million there; I just hope that lessons have been learnt.

Love how VK sets us up and we're showing enough now that I believe we will kick on again but damn - what could've been?!

[NewClaret]

Like i've said all year though (and got pelters for it) anyone can do that, signing young players en masse... it's about having a balance and not trying to fix something that isn't broken.

The fact remains that a staggering % of our summer expenditure have arguably weakened the team when they have featured.

Yes talking Amdouni, Trafford, Ramsey, Tresor - that's really poor no matter what way you look at it... Talking £65 or so million there; I just hope that lessons have been learnt.

Love how VK sets us up and we're showing enough now that I believe we will kick on again but damn - what could've been?!

Amdouni I thought was a real talent early season, now he looks awful and I don’t think he’s ever really put a shift in. He needs dropping and he’ll be nowhere near the team on Tuesday.

The others I think all have talent and were probably players we couldn’t have either afforded or attracted in the Premier League. I think they’ll come good eventually and prove good signings, but as I say Kompany has played too many of them together.

But not playing Muric all season has been Kompany’s biggest mistake. Huge. I initially just thought Muric was unfairly treated being dropped (I don’t think Traff has been anywhere near as ‘bad’ as has been made out, but when you watch the difference he’s made since coming back in it’s absolutely heartbreaking to think what could’ve been.

[CoolClaret]

Amdouni I thought was a real talent early season, now he looks awful and I don’t think he’s ever really put a shift in. He needs dropping and he’ll be nowhere near the team on Tuesday.

The others I think all have talent and were probably players we couldn’t have either afforded or attracted in the Premier League. I think they’ll come good eventually and prove good signings, but as I say Kompany has played too many of them together.

But not playing Muric all season has been Kompany’s biggest mistake. Huge. I initially just thought Muric was unfairly treated being dropped (I don’t think Traff has been anywhere near as ‘bad’ as has been made out, but when you watch the difference he’s made since coming back in it’s absolutely heartbreaking to think what could’ve been.

I do think Ramsey will come good, just didn't think he should have been used like he had done.

On Traff - It's never been that he's been 'bad' per say, it's the complimentary affect he had on the rest of the team; confidence with the defenders, positions the players take up, ability to play out etc.

To me it has been really obvious. I just don't think he has the tools to do what we need in a goalkeeper in our team and his inclusion has made us worse as a collective.

Not sure where we go from here with him in all honesty. I would love to keep Muric and I don't think Traff wants to be playing second fiddle.

[Vegas Claret]

Koleosho can't be far away either surely ? He would give us a big lift

[bumba]

Like i've said all year though (and got pelters for it) anyone can do that, signing young players en masse... it's about having a balance and not trying to fix something that isn't broken.

The fact remains that a staggering % of our summer expenditure have arguably weakened the team when they have featured.

Yes talking Amdouni, Trafford, Ramsey, Tresor - that's really poor no matter what way you look at it... Talking £65 or so million there; I just hope that lessons have been learnt.

Love how VK sets us up and we're showing enough now that I believe we will kick on again but damn - what could've been?!

£65 million and I wouldn't have any of them near the starting 11, they all some up the season weak and not ready for this level. Muric and Cullen come in from last season along with some more experienced players at the top level (Esteve/Assignon) and the excitement of Fofana and we look more able to compete.
Why it took 28 games to figure out is anyone's guess, it was so obvious from October

[NewClaret]

I do think Ramsey will come good, just didn't think he should have been used like he had done.

On Traff - It's never been that he's been 'bad' per say, it's the complimentary affect he had on the rest of the team; confidence with the defenders, positions the players take up, ability to play out etc.

To me it has been really obvious. I just don't think he has the tools to do what we need in a goalkeeper in our team and his inclusion has made us worse as a collective.

Not sure where we go from here with him in all honesty. I would love to keep Muric and I don't think Traff wants to be playing second fiddle.

Actually I think the problem with Traff if we’re really honest is that he’s played well enough not to be second fiddle. In a marginally stronger team (in front of him) he’d be ready for this level. The problem has been we’ve worked him too much this season; Muric would’ve coped better but in a stronger PL team Traff would’ve been just fine.

I think we’ve got ourselves in a pickle but think we’ve just got to man up as a club and tell Traff he’s got to wait and earn his place in the team. Theres no way on earth James Trafford is bigger than this club currently.

[CoolClaret]

Actually I think the problem with Traff if we’re really honest is that he’s played well enough not to be second fiddle. In a marginally stronger team (in front of him) he’d be ready for this level. The problem has been we’ve worked him too much this season; Muric would’ve coped better but in a stronger PL team Traff would’ve been just fine.

I think we’ve got ourselves in a pickle but think we’ve just got to man up as a club and tell Traff he’s got to wait and earn his place in the team. Theres no way on earth James Trafford is bigger than this club currently.

How can you say that though when we've just looked far better as a defensive unit with Aro back in?

Any keeper would look better with a better defence - but what's the keeper doing for the team, to help the defensive unit? It's more than saves btw and odd bits of play, it's all the hidden details - where they position themselves, how they make themselves available for passes, how quick they see a pass etc

I find this logic you've put here bit strange tbh, surely it's just about picking the players that make us a better collective?

The fact is he was a substantial chunk of change and isn't at the level of the guy we had on the bench for 29 games this season. It's that simple.

[NewClaret]

How can you say that though when we've just looked far better as a defensive unit with Aro back in?

Any keeper would look better with a better defence - but what's the keeper doing for the team, to help the defensive unit? It's more than saves btw and odd bits of play, it's all the hidden details - where they position themselves, how they make themselves available for passes, how quick they see a pass etc

I find this logic you've put here bit strange tbh, surely it's just about picking the players that make us a better collective?

The fact is he was a substantial chunk of change and isn't at the level of the guy we had on the bench for 29 games this season. It's that simple.

I’m not arguing with you. I don’t really know why you’re trying to find a disagreement here, or generally get so sensitive about anyone who says anything remotely positive about Trafford.

But to qualify:

- I absolutely agree that Muric is levels above Trafford.
- I also agree he should’ve started the season and kept his place had he played like he has in the first two games.
- As you say I think age and maturity plays a big part in this league.
- Those things considered I think we’d have been much better playing Muric behind a young defence.
- I think we’d be on more points had Muric played all season.
- I think it’s Kompany’s biggest mistake not playing him (& quite worrying someone like me would’ve taken a different decision)

But that does not mean that Trafford wouldn’t have looked very good behind a decent defence like Wolves, Everton, Brentford, etc. He’s made some excellent saves and kept us in some games this year when the defence were worse than they are now. He’d have been fine behind a better defence and could quite reasonably make an argument he should be playing at this level. Equally we should be very stone in not letting him go too early and before he’s realised his true value.
-

[CoolClaret]

I’m not arguing with you. I don’t really know why you’re trying to find a disagreement here, or generally get so sensitive about anyone who says anything remotely positive about Trafford.

I'm not mate at all.

I just disagree with your conclusion - I think one of the reasons that the defence has looked poor is because of the goalkeeper, that's what I'm trying to get at.

[dougcollins]

when you consider Leicester the "best team the Championship has ever seen" went there in a one off game and got smashed I'm still 100% convinced this team is way better than last seasons, whatever happens the future is bright for us

The same Leicester team that's gonna struggle to get automatic promotion?

[Carlos the Great]

£65 million and I wouldn't have any of them near the starting 11, they all some up the season weak and not ready for this level. Muric and Cullen come in from last season along with some more experienced players at the top level (Esteve/Assignon) and the excitement of Fofana and we look more able to compete.
Why it took 28 games to figure out is anyone's guess, it was so obvious from October

Amazing really how wasteful we have been but refused to make a worthy offer for Tella ..: I wonder how we would have got on this season with Maatsen and Tella and Muric .. teh nucleus of last years team

[Vim Fuego]

Coming of age is premature. Our manager is still making mistakes. Like Not playing Charlie Taylor today. Why?

And like others have said, it was our more mature players that saw the game out today

The goalkeeper decision has been pivotal to our season and it has been such a bad one

Said it before. But it is like football decisions are being made by accountants