Mission to Burnley 2

[Big Vinny K]

Just watched the first episode.

Feels completely different watching it to the first series knowing how badly we got things wrong.
First series you think the swearing and rousing speeches is all part of the success and great team spirit and how much of a winner and a leader he is. Second series it sounds like cliches and all a bit contrived.

Same with Alan Pace - first series he comes across as friendly and wanting to build relationships with fans etc. Second series he comes across as a complete idiot - a giggling fanboy with that stupid laugh !!

Funny how your perspective changes when the team is doing well and when it’s playing disastrously. The problem is between the 2 seasons is that the contrast is so extreme. One season is one of the best ever and the next one of the worst. So the reaction and feeling in the dressing room as an onlooker is also extreme. There’s nothing in between as it was so good and then so bad.

One thing coming across already is how alienated some of the players that are not involved are feeling. Lots of players straight on to their mobiles as soon as they come into the dressing room after a game and just going through the motions when VK is going round hugging them.

Lee Mooney seems to come across pretty well but when he talks about the worldwide analysis and monitoring 300,000 players etc personally I just get the feeling that we have taken it all a bit too far away from the basics of needing quality and experience. You employ all these people and all this analytics and we ended up with a completely imbalanced team that was nowhere near ready or good enough for the Premier League. All feels very disjointed and lacking basic understanding of what was needed.

Think it’s going to be a hard watch this time round.

[Clowbridge89]

I was so close to turning off the second episode when they were discussing the drum/atmosphere/fans leaving early. It just shows that they were clueless about how poor we were and what everybody else could see happening.

The less said about the JBG incident the better. I wouldn’t have been signing a new contract either.

[Burnley1989]

Interesting that Benny had the reputation as a bit of party animal too, probably contributed to him not playing.

One of my mates told me he'd heard he was the mystery footballer that was addicted to balloons starting to wonder if that actually was the case

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Also noticed players straight on their mobiles in the dressing room. Maybe sorting their Saturday night out!

[Hipper]

Right there, in the first few minutes of episode 2, is the reason we got relegated. Kompany’s an arrogant clown. He’d clearly run out of ideas and resorted to blaming others (JBG in this case). He’d lost the dressing room so early in the season with his babbling nonsense and then shouting and bawling and here is the evidence, laid bare. The tactics and signings weren’t working. The players knew that and lost faith in him and his arrogance to stick to his “plan”. We all knew it, too.

I was one of those at the time saying he should be sacked because of the poisonous atmosphere around the club. Of course we’ll never know if that would have made a difference, but doing nothing certainly got us relegated.

No matter what happens this season, I’m delighted Kompany’s no longer associated with our great club and that JBG still is.

How did you know at the time that there was 'a poisonous atmosphere around the club'?

[wilks_bfc]

Are they not showing it in “normal Sky” like the first series was?

I don’t have the sports package but was able to download it to watch via Sky Max last time

[ClaretTony]

Are they not showing it in “normal Sky” like the first series was?

I don’t have the sports package but was able to download it to watch via Sky Max last time

They are, it’s going on the Documentaries channel I think but it glues on sport first to try and promote the new channel.

[ClaretTony]

How did you know at the time that there was 'a poisonous atmosphere around the club'?

I think most of us picked that up during the season.

[ClaretTony]

I was so close to turning off the second episode when they were discussing the drum/atmosphere/fans leaving early. It just shows that they were clueless about how poor we were and what everybody else could see happening.

The less said about the JBG incident the better. I wouldn’t have been signing a new contract either.

Did I hear right that Pace commented on fans leaving early and said they have an OBLIGATION to stay and support the team.

[Goody1975]

I think most of us picked that up during the season.

Most people would only be 'guessing' that was the case, the same as people trotting out the line "he's lost the dressing room"

[ClaretTony]

Most people would only be 'guessing' that was the case, the same as people trotting out the line "he's lost the dressing room"

I knew certain things which I found seriously concerning

[Goody1975]

I knew certain things which I found seriously concerning

I'm not disputing that a small number of people hear things coming out of the club, my point is that 'most' people would only be spouting things they heard down the pub.

How many players have been dropped for giving the managers daughter one? You know, the manager who doesn't even have a daughter!!!

[Big Vinny K]

I’d go in a different pub if that’s what you’ve been hearing !

[Raconteur]

Just watched the first episode.

Feels completely different watching it to the first series knowing how badly we got things wrong.
First series you think the swearing and rousing speeches is all part of the success and great team spirit and how much of a winner and a leader he is. Second series it sounds like cliches and all a bit contrived.

Same with Alan Pace - first series he comes across as friendly and wanting to build relationships with fans etc. Second series he comes across as a complete idiot - a giggling fanboy with that stupid laugh !!

Funny how your perspective changes when the team is doing well and when it’s playing disastrously. The problem is between the 2 seasons is that the contrast is so extreme. One season is one of the best ever and the next one of the worst. So the reaction and feeling in the dressing room as an onlooker is also extreme. There’s nothing in between as it was so good and then so bad.

One thing coming across already is how alienated some of the players that are not involved are feeling. Lots of players straight on to their mobiles as soon as they come into the dressing room after a game and just going through the motions when VK is going round hugging them.

Lee Mooney seems to come across pretty well but when he talks about the worldwide analysis and monitoring 300,000 players etc personally I just get the feeling that we have taken it all a bit too far away from the basics of needing quality and experience. You employ all these people and all this analytics and we ended up with a completely imbalanced team that was nowhere near ready or good enough for the Premier League. All feels very disjointed and lacking basic understanding of what was needed.

Think it’s going to be a hard watch this time round.

I suppose it's all about opinions. I've watched it whole now and i didn't find it hard to watch at all.
I think it is quality. I have found it to be better than the first series.

[jrgbfc]

Tbf the amount of times we completely crumbled and fell apart you didn't need to be a genius to see all wasn't well.

[Clowbridge89]

Did I hear right that Pace commented on fans leaving early and said they have an OBLIGATION to stay and support the team.

It just shows how starstruck they were by him. They 100% believed in the methods when the majority of us could, eventually, see our failings and how not much changed through the season. And they had all the insider knowledge!

I hadn’t left early since Ian Wright scored that late goal against Notts County (I fully accept people pay their money and have a right to leave when they want), but I did last season because it was just so frustrating. To put the blame on fans is ridiculous. It’s on the staff/players to give us something to shout about. The same dross week in week out grinds everyone down.

[Raconteur]

Right there, in the first few minutes of episode 2, is the reason we got relegated. Kompany’s an arrogant clown. He’d clearly run out of ideas and resorted to blaming others (JBG in this case). He’d lost the dressing room so early in the season with his babbling nonsense and then shouting and bawling and here is the evidence, laid bare. The tactics and signings weren’t working. The players knew that and lost faith in him and his arrogance to stick to his “plan”. We all knew it, too.

I was one of those at the time saying he should be sacked because of the poisonous atmosphere around the club. Of course we’ll never know if that would have made a difference, but doing nothing certainly got us relegated.

No matter what happens this season, I’m delighted Kompany’s no longer associated with our great club and that JBG still is.

I would say arguments like that happen on training grounds up and down the country.

I have watched it all now and it doesn't come across that Kompany lost the dressing room at all.

[Exeterclaret]

Most people would only be 'guessing' that was the case, the same as people trotting out the line "he's lost the dressing room"

I do find some of the blatant revisionism and baseless assertions surrounding last season quite funny. The general fan consensus even towards the end of last season was that it had been a poor season but Kompany deserved a crack at the Championship.

[RVclaret]

Dressing room looked relatively as you’d expect. Obv we don’t see the full picture but the producers did say they had full edit rights and full access so not sure why they’d have held off any worse. They showed the Foster - Cork argument and Cullen - Fofana spat (liked this from Josh) which was fair intense.

[fidelcastro]

I do find some of the blatant revisionism and baseless assertions surrounding last season quite funny. The general fan consensus even towards the end of last season was that it had been a poor season but Kompany deserved a crack at the Championship.

Speak for yourself.

[ClaretTony]

The general fan consensus even towards the end of last season was that it had been a poor season but Kompany deserved a crack at the Championship.

I was relieved he went, and I know I can only speak for myself but I don't think there was a consensus that he should stay.

[RVclaret]

I was relieved he went, and I know I can only speak for myself but I don't think there was a consensus that he should stay.

There were polls done on here and X where a clear majority thought he should stay.

[Exeterclaret]

Speak for yourself.

Realise I have undermined my argument somewhat by making a baseless assertion myself Still as RV says polls at the time as far as they can be relied on suggested that was the case.

[ClaretTony]

There were polls done on here and X where a clear majority thought he should stay.

I don’t ever recall running a poll on here and wouldn’t run one, but I was absolutely relieved when he went.

[Casper2]

Dave Checketts just called it absolutely spot on

[martin_p]

While there wasn’t a huge clamour for him to go there wasn’t a great wailing and gnashing of teeth when he did. The biggest shock was where he ended up!

[Exeterclaret]

While there wasn’t a huge clamour for him to go there wasn’t a great wailing and gnashing of teeth when he did. The biggest shock was where he ended up!

I also think on reflection it was probably a good juncture for him to move on. Time will tell but I do think he's a good coach with a high ceiling. It will probably be a long time before we see a Burnley side playing football like we did in 22/23.

[Raconteur]

Reflecting on the series i would actually say one of the reasons we were relegated was highlighted by Matt Williams in episode 1 when he says "We need men"

[Rick_Muller]

got to say, after episode 3 - Lyle Foster - take a bow son and thanks for saying what many of us were thinking

[ClaretTony]

Reflecting on the series i would actually say one of the reasons we were relegated was highlighted by Matt Williams in episode 1 when he says "We need men"

Spot on for me is that

[Sheedyclaret]

Reflecting on the series i would actually say one of the reasons we were relegated was highlighted by Matt Williams in episode 1 when he says "We need men"

Perhaps we should of signed some then..

[ElectroClaret]

It will probably be a long time before we see a Burnley side playing football like we did in 22/23.

And hopefully a hell of a sight longer before we suffer the absolute dross that was served up last season, please God never.

[blatherwickstattoos]

I was relieved he went, and I know I can only speak for myself but I don't think there was a consensus that he should stay.

He was lucky to be in a job at Xmas. The signings and football he continued to play was nothing short of a disgrace. Add onto this Bellamy asking to leave , it really makes you think how toxic and stubborn vk was. Look forward to the series

[Exeterclaret]

And hopefully a hell of a sight longer before we suffer the absolute dross that was served up last season, please God never.

Might be controversial but I thought the turgid stuff toward the end of Dyche's tenure was as bad if not worse.

[claretburns]

Matt Williams: You can sign Eric Dier if you want?

Alan Pace: I don't even know who that is.

I am not saying Eric Dier is sort of Beckhamesque and known all around the world but if you are the owner of a Premier League club (in charge of spending the money and buying players) and you don't know Eric Dier that is a concern.

[Stonehouse]

Just started watching it and how apt the first shot of James Trafford walking across the car park and he drops one of his boots.

[quoonbeatz]

The beauty of the last championship season was well worth the beast of the last PL season.

[jedi_master]

Finished it - enjoyed it a lot more than I expected to in fairness, almost a cathartic experience. A load of naivety from Pace throughout, but that does not shock me. In fact - the show didn't surprise me much at all, which is interesting. The players that looked like they cared are the ones I expected, and the ones who didn't likewise. Loved Cullen digging Fofana out, and enjoyed seeing the passion Foster and Cork showed with their argument. Stuff needed to be said, and from my perspective what Lyle said was from the heart and pretty fair.

Kompany comes across well in some ways and poorly in others. I found his pre-match talks to be repetitive and lacking in real tangible advice/criticism. He speaks in broad strokes and resorts to the F bomb too often. He speaks too often like a captain, not a manager. I have seen enough in this documentary to say to me that it might well have been the best thing for both those players as well as Vinny for a parting of the ways to have occurred, they all looked in need of a change in my opinion. I wanted him to get the chance to bring us back, but not sure if it would have been wise having seen this. I wish him all the best at a club he could never turn down.

This feels like a good thing to 'get over' the horrendous 12 months we all suffered. As I say, cathartic.

[Steve1956]

Just started watching it and how apt the first shot of James Trafford walking across the car park and he drops one of his boots.

And the abuse continues FFS give the guy a break.

[CoolClaret]

Myself and a few posters got pelters early season for pointing out the bleeding obvious, least the doc has cleared a few things up.

Munich coming in for VK I truly believe is a blessing in disguise... There's no doubt that he gave us a fabulous season 22/23 but he's just not the type of manager we need at our club when, more often than not (especially in the PL) we will be up against it.

[fidelcastro]

The beauty of the last championship season was well worth the beast of the last PL season.

It really wasn't.

[Stonehouse]

And the abuse continues FFS give the guy a break.

Not being abusive I just thought it funny.

[Exeterclaret]

Myself and a few posters got pelters early season for pointing out the bleeding obvious, least the doc has cleared a few things up.

Munich coming in for VK I truly believe is a blessing in disguise... There's no doubt that he gave us a fabulous season 22/23 but he's just not the type of manager we need at our club when, more often than not (especially in the PL) we will be up against it.

Maybe I'm naive but I would like to see a Burnley side have success in the Premier League playing it out from the back. Pragmatism will always be required but other teams have proved it's possible.

[Cowick Claret]

If I get now TV sports will I be able to watch it?

[Steve1956]

Not being abusive I just thought it funny.

Your way to easily amused if you thought someone dropping a football boot was funny.

[quoonbeatz]

It really wasn't.

Was for me. Winning the championship at ewood with 100+ points in the style we did it will always make up for us being predictably not very good in the division above. I'll happily take the two relegation either side for that.

[Vegas Claret]

how many parts have been released ?

[Row x]

how many parts have been released ?

All 4 on demand.....I was surprised how decent a watch it actually was

[Vegas Claret]

All 4 on demand.....I was surprised how decent a watch it actually was

ok cheers

[Big Vinny K]

Finished it - enjoyed it a lot more than I expected to in fairness, almost a cathartic experience. A load of naivety from Pace throughout, but that does not shock me. In fact - the show didn't surprise me much at all, which is interesting. The players that looked like they cared are the ones I expected, and the ones who didn't likewise. Loved Cullen digging Fofana out, and enjoyed seeing the passion Foster and Cork showed with their argument. Stuff needed to be said, and from my perspective what Lyle said was from the heart and pretty fair.

Kompany comes across well in some ways and poorly in others. I found his pre-match talks to be repetitive and lacking in real tangible advice/criticism. He speaks in broad strokes and resorts to the F bomb too often. He speaks too often like a captain, not a manager. I have seen enough in this documentary to say to me that it might well have been the best thing for both those players as well as Vinny for a parting of the ways to have occurred, they all looked in need of a change in my opinion. I wanted him to get the chance to bring us back, but not sure if it would have been wise having seen this. I wish him all the best at a club he could never turn down.

This feels like a good thing to 'get over' the horrendous 12 months we all suffered. As I say, cathartic.

Spot on with the dressing room pre match war cry stuff.
And even when he says it’s time for you to hear a different voice and Bellamy gives the speech it’s exactly the same !! I know it’s edited a lot but there’s not much by the way of practical or tactical advice that the players are getting. There’s little game management stuff either. And even if the programme is edited in such a way to leave this out to be honest we saw very little game management, tactical use of substitutions or points in a game where we decide to make changes to the way we are playing in an attempt to counter the opposition or just change something that was clearly not working.

I’ve watched 2 episodes now and one thing that does stand out for me more than ever is that many of those people in senior positions at the club just don’t seem to get it. I’m not really sure how many of these guys are genuine football fans let alone have an affiliation to Burnley. I don’t really see any evidence coming through in the documentary of long term strategy or thinking for the club.
Again could be the documentary and the way it is edited but Pace is hardly portrayed as a serious owner - they make him look like a bit of a fool. It’s not just the pathetic stuff with the drum and his 3 line whip that it was going to happen irrespective of people telling him it would back fire it’s virtually every time he is on the screen he just comes across as a bit of a caricature of an American who does not understand football or its culture.