Summer 2024 Transfer Window Discussion - Rumours and Links welcome

[Quickenthetempo]

Want him to what?

They have no money, as has been confirmed by their manager.

Percy saying they have 20m budget left for the summer after bringing 90m in.

[taio]

There is a fine line between making a profit on players and scuppering your own chances at developing your business model by not achieving promotion.

It's inevitable that we'll sell some of our best players. And realistically we couldn't stop Odebert going to Spurs and the same will be true of Berge to Man United or Trafford to Newcastle if the price is right - which is why the focus needs to be on the club holding its nerve and maximising fees. But, as you say, balance is key.

[NewClaret]

The other reason not to sell Vitinho is because he is a pal and interpreter to Pires who would probably be the sole Portuguese speaker otherwise. I really see no need to rock the boat for under £10m if it deprives us in a sense of 2 decent players.

Very good point.

Unless it’s Inter in for him & he wants out.

[quoonbeatz]

On the flip side, he'd played a fabulous ball down the right for Roberts at one point, who inexplicably stood still

That was delicious.

[Dark Cloud]

There is a fine line between making a profit on players and scuppering your own chances at developing your business model by not achieving promotion.

Our transfer window and miy thoughts in a nutshell! The club is treading a very fine line atm and will be for the next 12 days. We clearly currently have a squad very capable of achieving promotion with good management, but will we have a similar squad when the window closes or will we have a shed load of cash in the bank and a team who are "thereabouts"? Tbf, Parker knew this on day one and you'd like to think that he's got all bases, eventualities and scenarios covered as a result. But time will tell.

[Holtyclaret]

Absolutely spot on.

I feel we might be sleepwalking in to a few bad decisions over the next few weeks.

You think the board don’t know exactly what’s going on and are acting without any element of pre-planning, strategy, diligence and with an eye to maximising fees received?

You don’t think we have several targets for each position earmarked (it’s what the data analysts/mud do for us) or replacements lined up for bigger name departures?

Don’t think oderbert needs replacing but I can see replacements for berge/brownhill/o’shea coming in if they’re sold. They’ll be cheaper and could be better/equivalent.

[kentonclaret]

Selling a key member of central defence in O’Shea for a fee of £15m is just bonkers when he could be the difference between automatic promotion and a top 6 finish.
The management teams at Brentford and Ipswich are both very astute and if they see O’Shea as a player worth adding to their squads for a relatively modest fee we are probably undervaluing the player.

[JimmyRobbo]

Seeing as it seems it is time for the daily have-a-go at Wout session, for a bit of balance, Amdouni would have never scored that goal without Wout's intelligence in deliberately pulling a defender away when he saw it was on for Amdouni to give him a massive hole to shoot in that vacant space created by Wout.

An outstanding observation.

I thought he took up an excellent position and then switched across to open up the space. Football is not all about the shooting. Not everybosy sees that.

[claretspice]

If we recoup anywhere close to £30m for Berge, I’d like to think we’d be in the luxurious position of not having to take a large gamble on playing someone in a position they’ve played very little in or hoping a younger player plays at a level they’ve never done before.

If we’re serious about promotion, let’s get a good solid CM in who has a track record of performing at the level we require for promotion.

If Berge goes we will need another central midfielder, although with Cullen and Brownhill already first choices and Ramsey (who might be the natural replacement) to come back, I'm not sure it needs to be a marquee signing - particularly if Amdouni is likely to stay and be an option in a number 10 role. What we'll need is someone to add depth and almost more replace the role Cork filled last time at this level.

[NewClaret]

You think the board don’t know exactly what’s going on and are acting without any element of pre-planning, strategy, diligence and with an eye to maximising fees received?

You don’t think we have several targets for each position earmarked (it’s what the data analysts/mud do for us) or replacements lined up for bigger name departures?

Don’t think oderbert needs replacing but I can see replacements for berge/brownhill/o’shea coming in if they’re sold. They’ll be cheaper and could be better/equivalent.

No, I know there’s some replacements lined up.

If I’m honest, I’m not particularly excited about the names that have been mentioned to me as potential replacements and I definitely wouldn’t consider them equivalents let alone better. So in that respect I’m hoping I have been misinformed or there’s more that I don’t know.

But it looks like another summer of very high turnover. At some point that’s going to come unstuck.

[quoonbeatz]

Selling a key member of central defence in O’Shea for a fee of £15m is just bonkers when he could be the difference between automatic promotion and a top 6 finish.
The management teams at Brentford and Ipswich are both very astute and if they see O’Shea as a player worth adding to their squads for a relatively modest fee we are probably undervaluing the player.

Or, given neither of them have met our valuation, we probably aren’t undervaluing him.

I’d rather keep him as he’s a good player at this level and is one of our leaders, but 15m is probably about right for him.

[Pearcey]

I’d be surprised if O’Shea went to Wolves after being a Baggie. I think it’s obvious that we’re open to selling. I expect him to leave along with Berge.

[randomclaret2]

Or, given neither of them have met our valuation, we probably aren’t undervaluing him.

I’d rather keep him as he’s a good player at this level and is one of our leaders, but 15m is probably about right for him.

Surely he's worth more than.Jacob Greaves who cost Ipswich £18m from Hull ?

[NewClaret]

An outstanding observation.

I thought he took up an excellent position and then switched across to open up the space. Football is not all about the shooting. Not everybosy sees that.

While we are discussing movement and intelligent play, there was a better example of it for JBG’s goal.

Hountondji won the ball back in his own half with a header, Massengo picked up the loose ball and drove forward with it.

Meanwhile, Hountondji ran half the length of the pitch to make a run that drew two defenders and created space for JBG to shoot.

Massengo also followed his pass and made a run to the left to draw the defenders (as it happens they were tracking Hountondji anyway).

Great play all round by both of them. I’ve been particularly impressed with Hountondji.

[Vegas Claret]

But it looks like another summer of very high turnover. At some point that’s going to come unstuck.

Plenty of us said this and it's absolutely correct.

[Holtyclaret]

Surely he's worth more than.Jacob Greaves who cost Ipswich £18m from Hull ?

You’d think so, but of those two who has the higher ceiling?

[quoonbeatz]

Surely he's worth more than.Jacob Greaves who cost Ipswich £18m from Hull ?

No idea, I’ve never heard of him.

[Firthy]

We aren't selling O'Shea for £15m or £10m. It's all rumour and we apparently turned down £15m from Brentford so no chance £10m from Ipswich will be accepted. So all we know is that the club are asking for more than £!5m or he might not even be for sale. Only time will tell.

[winsomeyen]

You think the board don’t know exactly what’s going on and are acting without any element of pre-planning, strategy, diligence and with an eye to maximising fees received?

You don’t think we have several targets for each position earmarked (it’s what the data analysts/mud do for us) or replacements lined up for bigger name departures?

Don’t think oderbert needs replacing but I can see replacements for berge/brownhill/o’shea coming in if they’re sold. They’ll be cheaper and could be better/equivalent.

Are you Alan Pace ?

[123EasyasBFC]

| Botafogo is interested in signing Vitinho from Burnley!

The full-back is looking forward to going to Fogão, for a possible chance to play for the Brazilian national team in the future!

Now, Botafogo is trying to convince Burnley to release the player.

[ @geglobo ] ( )

[Holtyclaret]

Are you Alan Pace ?

Nope but I wish I had his bank balance!

[randomclaret2]

You’d think so, but of those two who has the higher ceiling?

Difficult to say of course but they are a similar age, have played a similar number of games in their careers, but O"Shea's totals include 60 odd games in the Premier League and 26 International caps and Greaves' dont. Hopefully whoever is negotiating for us is using Greaves' fee as a starting point...

[RVclaret]

| Botafogo is interested in signing Vitinho from Burnley!

The full-back is looking forward to going to Fogão, for a possible chance to play for the Brazilian national team in the future!

Now, Botafogo is trying to convince Burnley to release the player.

[ @geglobo ] ( )

Says they want a loan with an option. Just wouldn’t make any sense from our perspective at all.

[KlyBfc]

I think it’s obvious that we’re open to selling. I expect him to leave along with Berge.

I think it’s clear we are open to selling any player if the price is right. That’s the model they want, and possibly why Vitinhio’s name is out there at the minute. Signed for 1m sell for a profit bring the next player through. As others have said that method will likely come unstuck at some point.

[summitclaret]

Where are people getting the idea that we may end up with money in the bank from? We are in substantial debt and paying higher interest on it. Also, some appear to be writing off Beyer, which is very premature. He's a very talented player if used correctly.

Furthermore, the last player we should be selling is O'Shea He's PL ready for next season. Finally, we need to remember that in some cases, contract exit values may be coming into play.

[Big Vinny K]

But it looks like another summer of very high turnover. At some point that’s going to come unstuck.

24 points last season suggests it already has.

[123EasyasBFC]

Where are people getting the idea that we may end up with money in the bank from? We are in substantial debt and paying higher interest on it. Also, some appear to be writing off Beyer, which is very premature. He's a very talented player if used correctly.

Furthermore, the last player we should be selling is O'Shea He's PL ready for next season. Finally, we need to remember that in some cases, contract exit values may be coming into play.

If we were in substantial debt and it was panic stations we wouldn’t be turning bids of 15m down for O’Shea

[Big Vinny K]

Where are people getting the idea that we may end up with money in the bank from? We are in substantial debt and paying higher interest on it. Also, some appear to be writing off Beyer, which is very premature. He's a very talented player if used correctly.

Furthermore, the last player we should be selling is O'Shea He's PL ready for next season. Finally, we need to remember that in some cases, contract exit values may be coming into play.

Exactly this.
And if we start using factoring facilities again to bring forward money due from other clubs then our finances are probably even more perilous than we think.

[RicardoMontalban]

If I’m honest, I’m not particularly excited about the names that have been mentioned to me as potential replacements and I definitely wouldn’t consider them equivalents let alone better. So in that respect I’m hoping I have been misinformed or there’s more that I don’t know.

I guess the thing about this is it’s fairly self evident that if we’re selling someone for £25m+, we’re not replacing them with better or equal. What we’re hoping is that through the scouting department we’ve identified players who can both be good enough for this season (in the championship), and can be developed quickly enough to take their place on the conveyor belt.

And that’s the plan isn’t it? We’re never going to be a club that sells a player for £25m and replaces with a £25m player.

And being in the EPL is central to that.

[billyhamilton82]

Exactly this.
And if we start using factoring facilities again to bring forward money due from other clubs then our finances are probably even more perilous than we think.

"If"

"probably"

"think"

Usually the words of a politician.

[Holtyclaret]

I guess the thing about this is it’s fairly self evident that if we’re selling someone for £25m+, we’re not replacing them with better or equal. What we’re hoping is that through the scouting department we’ve identified players who can both be good enough for this season (in the championship), and can be developed quickly enough to take their place on the conveyor belt.

And that’s the plan isn’t it? We’re never going to be a club that sells a player for £25m and replaces with a £25m player.

And being in the EPL is central to that.

….. better or equal at a relatively low price and start the process again I meant.

……. And by replacements, more of a squad replacement of the position, with the imediate team replacement already in house and ‘up to speed’.

[Big Vinny K]

"If"

"probably"

"think"

Usually the words of a politician.

Indeed….or someone who has not got the most up to date financial information for the club because it’s not available until around 18 months after year end.
It’s hardly the wildest assumption in the world to suggest something we might do something we have done a few times already under the current owners

[claretskeith]

Is the scouting department the same as when Kompany was here and we brought in the likes of Odobert, Koleosho, Berge, O'Shea, Foster et al? And the same system? Or did anybody in this department leave with Kompany? I'm just wondering if we can expect to be bringing in the same quality of players.

[billyhamilton82]

"Indeed….or someone who has not got the most up to date financial information for the club because it’s not available until around 18 months after year end."

Exactly this

[Holtyclaret]

Is the scouting department the same as when Kompany was here and we brought in the likes of Odobert, Koleosho, Berge, O'Shea, Foster et al? And the same system? Or did anybody in this department leave with Kompany? I'm just wondering if we can expect to be bringing in the same quality of players.

Exactly same

[Colburn_Claret]

I think it’s clear we are open to selling any player if the price is right. That’s the model they want, and possibly why Vitinhio’s name is out there at the minute. Signed for 1m sell for a profit bring the next player through. As others have said that method will likely come unstuck at some point.

Only if we sell every player that gives us a profit.
There's no evidence that is the case. AP understands the need for every club to reach the Premier League. As in any business losses can be made short term, in order to create long term gain, but despite the leveraged buyout, we appear to be sound financially. So long as the immediate debt is covered, there is no need to sell everybody. The sale of Odobert/Kompany sorted the balancing act. We are still squad heavy, and need to shed a few first teamers who are down the pecking order, just to make the squad manageable, but unless the offers for Traff and or Berge are too good to turn down, I can't see the club letting them go. There's no need imo, to sell anyone we don't want to, and that is key in getting top dollar for your players.

[Spijed]

unless the offers for Traff and or Berge are too good to turn down, I can't see the club letting them go. There's no need imo, to sell anyone we don't want to, and that is key in getting top dollar for your players.

But what happens if we get offers for the likes of Foster, Koleosho, O'Shea etc. that are too good to turn down?

[claretskeith]

But what happens if we get offers for the likes of Foster, Koleosho, O'Shea etc. that are too good to turn down?

Then you start getting your boots polished.

[Holtyclaret]

But what happens if we get offers for the likes of Foster, Koleosho, O'Shea etc. that are too good to turn down?

They’ll be off

[taio]

But what happens if we get offers for the likes of Foster, Koleosho, O'Shea etc. that are too good to turn down?

Depends on prior sales at that point, I imagine

[Holtyclaret]

…. And you’d imagine the more that are sold the higher we demand for remaining players as the need to sell is less.

[Colburn_Claret]

But what happens if we get offers for the likes of Foster, Koleosho, O'Shea etc. that are too good to turn down?

In the realms of possibilty, it can't be dismissed, but in the world of probability highly unlikely.

I suspect if we were offered top money for 6 or 7 of our best players, AP would see SP and agree which 2 are most expendable, and keep the rest.

I have no evidence for that, I just believe AP wants what is best for the club, and selling everyone isn't in the best interest of the club.

[Woodleyclaret]

Traff and Sander can go for me as long as we stick to top money

[fatboy47]

some appear to be writing off Beyer, which is very premature. He's a very talented player if used correctly.

This.^

Easily our most exciting CH in possession last time in the Championship.

[NewClaret]

I guess the thing about this is it’s fairly self evident that if we’re selling someone for £25m+, we’re not replacing them with better or equal. What we’re hoping is that through the scouting department we’ve identified players who can both be good enough for this season (in the championship), and can be developed quickly enough to take their place on the conveyor belt.

And that’s the plan isn’t it? We’re never going to be a club that sells a player for £25m and replaces with a £25m player.

And being in the EPL is central to that.

Yes, that’s exactly what I was saying: if we’re selling at £25m we’re not replacing with equal or better quality.

So the bank balance increases (or our debt lowers) but our playing talent and therefore chances of making an immediate return decrease. That’s obviously a risk in its own right because miss promotion and the whole model collapses very quickly.

I agree that the hope is our recruitment dept have identified suitable successors that can get us up again. I’m not particularly convinced with the names I’ve heard but I do think the rump of the squad probably has enough talent to get the job done anyway. And to be fair our competition are getting raided too to equal things out.

But I’m not convinced that anyone we buy now will be able to step up to the premier league if we got up, which is the issue for me because by selling your Berge and O’Shea’s you’re actually removing the pillars you should be building around.

When we went down and we sold Pope, Tarks, Mee, Dwight, Cornet you immediately have 5 top players to replace if you go up. Then you get your arguments about too much change, team spirit, connections with the players, etc etc.

If we’re selling Muric, Odobert, Berge & O’Shea (minimum) I feel we’re in similar territory and I think we’re going to struggle to break the cycle without holding on to players that proved themselves in the premier league and building around them.

Thats why I can’t really get excited when we sell a good player regardless of the fee.

[Paul Waine]

Indeed….or someone who has not got the most up to date financial information for the club because it’s not available until around 18 months after year end.
It’s hardly the wildest assumption in the world to suggest something we might do something we have done a few times already under the current owners

Hi Big VK, limited companies have to file their accounts with Companies House 9 months after the year end. BFCHL has often filed at the end of April following 31st July year end. Last season the accounts were filed at the end of December, only 5 months after year end. This was most likely a Premier League requirement.

So, I'll let you adjust your "18 months after year end" to 18 to 21 months after the start of the relevant accounting period. Agree, there is always a gap in outsiders financial information. So, we make estimates.

[Colburn_Claret]

This.^

Easily our most exciting CH in possession last time in the Championship.

6 months ago I'd readily agree, but Esteve has been awesome this season and is growing. He's even making those Beyeresque surges forward when the space appears.
Beyer had no competition in the championship, but big competition now. It doesn't make Beyer any less exciting than he was 6 months ago, and I'd never write him off, but as well as Steeeeeve shining, he's also created a great partnership with O'Shea, and the best CBs always work in pairs. Barring injury or suspension I wouldn't dream of bringing Beyer back in. More credit to the incumbents than a slight on Beyer.

[randomclaret2]

6 months ago I'd readily agree, but Esteve has been awesome this season and is growing. He's even making those Beyeresque surges forward when the space appears.
Beyer had no competition in the championship, but big competition now. It doesn't make Beyer any less exciting than he was 6 months ago, and I'd never write him off, but as well as Steeeeeve shining, he's also created a great partnership with O'Shea, and the best CBs always work in pairs. Barring injury or suspension I wouldn't dream of bringing Beyer back in. More credit to the incumbents than a slight on Beyer.

When did Beyer last play 90 mins. ?

[Colburn_Claret]

When did Beyer last play 90 mins. ?

?

[Steddyman]

This.^

Easily our most exciting CH in possession last time in the Championship.

But he'll be fit for no more than 5 games a season.