Summer 2024 Transfer Window Discussion - Rumours and Links welcome

[NewClaret]

He caused a lot of violent unrest across Italy too

Be good to add a bit of bite to our midfield though

[claretburns]

I've lost track here. Are we signing Driver or not ?

Don't think so but heard that a deal for Lansbury is back on.

[Boss Hogg]

Selling one or two each year makes sense. On the face of it this looks like a fire sale. Debt reducing and servicing look to be the priority even if it breaks up the team and squad. Lining the previous Chairman’s pockets and putting the club into huge debt means this is probably a sign of things to come.

[Big Vinny K]

It's all good! Nothing personal. Just something I've seen mentioned a few times since ALK and I don't quite agree but then enough people feel it so must be something in it.

The model requires us to be more active bringing players in than most of us have ever experienced in our time supporting Burnley. Some of these players won't play much, some will and we'll get attached to them. But hopefully, all if not most get sold a few years down the line for profit.

It's dog eat dog. You either have a sugar daddy, a successful youth academy or you're canny in the market.

Yep get it
And I realise that there is something in the view that many fans complained when we signed too few players and now moaning that we have signed too many !!

For me the debate is just not that linear. It’s also about context - and one of the biggest areas of context is the ownership structure, finances, level of debt etc

Getting the balance right between your team end too old and a bit stale (often directed towards Dyche) and where we are now with the biggest turnover of players and size of squad any of us can ever remember is very difficult to get that balance correct for us or anybody else.

I don’t think we have got that balance correct personally but time will tell. If we had a sugar daddy owner like Brighton did for years where losing £50m a season didn’t matter then I would not be as concerned about spending what we have and the large size of our squad as I am now. But even putting this aside I am not sure how having so many changes in the playing staff in such a short period of time is good for any long term consistency on the pitch.

[BleedingClaret]

From the very outset, before Kompany ALK make it clear that the plan was to make the club profitable based on player trading, that's what's happening, and we seem be quite successful at it so far. If we can turn a profit this year and go back up, it'll be a massive thing

Back to this
Turn a profit
Is that
A. On player sales & purchases
Or
B. On full trading accounts

I can’t see that we do it on B

A. could make the loss on B look less serious

If we go back up then B matters less

Trading a profit on A makes promotion less likely

Then B is a problem with or without A

[claretburns]

SSN reporting that Norwich are close to agreeing a loan plus £13.6 million obligation to buy deal with Marseille for Jonathan Rowe.

[Cleveleys_claret]

Wondering whether people still think they are funny regurgitating the Driver/ Lansbury links as a joke...surely they have been done to death

[Chester Perry]

It's not a simple calculation, but a legal publishing of a set of accounts where all these things are considered. That's where we will see if we've made a profit, not just Sales - Purchases.

The accounts never tell the full story, they can be and are (by virtually all clubs) drawn up to mostly tell the story that the owners/major shareholders want to tell, much is never recorded in detail (albeit legally) and most of what is there is far from being completely clear when it comes to player trading and financing.

With these two latter elements being very significant elements in the way the club is currently being operated it is pointless looking at this on a year by year basis. Particularly when you considered that profits just incur the cost of more taxes from the owners perspective. Over the ownership term I expect that taxation on profits will be minimised, with profits only being declared if it helps with FFP/PSR or whatever such rules come into place.

[SonofPog]

We stretched ourselves with the stupid summer window last year. Took on too much debt and too many players. The players only increase in value if you play them VK!

This window is just a reaction / fixing that one.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the model, player trading is the only other way of making money (other than TV Rev).

And despite the horrific last season, on and off the field. I'm still confident at the end of the window we'll have a better squad (That's owned by us, unlike loans that got us up last time) and paid down some of the debt. Than we had when VK came in.

[FCBurnley]

And the Kompany to Bayern

[KRBFC]

I'm not sure that Hannibal only having a handful of appearances for Sevilla and them choosing to not sign him is a good argument for us not signing him. Sevilla will be looking at a far higher standard than what we need to get promoted from the Championship.

Sevilla were absolutely tosh last season, the worst Sevilla side in recent memory.

[Rick_Muller]

Apologies Rick didn't mean to break posting protocols..feel free to post update on the right thread.

Thanks

Just jesting - I don’t mind it myself

[claretlegend]

A link to Sarmiento highlights if there's anything in this...

https://youtu.be/sLVC4TKjhIY?si=J7avp8Ispb77XZdj

[KRBFC]

I just don’t see the hype at all.

Looks a decent finisher but he’s not particularly quick, strong or good on the ball (technically). Honestly he would probably be fourth choice striker if he signed for us right now. I know he doesn’t player as striker but just referencing that due to KRBFC post.

Respectfully you haven’t seen enough based on your observation. Technically he’s streets ahead of Foster, more of a threat in the final third too (even from wide right).

[Vegas Claret]

Is there a proper link to sarmiento, or just a guess on here?

Unless something goes wrong he should be coming

[jedi_master]

I’ll try to be positive and say that this team would still get promoted (no idea on homegrown status before RV sorts me out ):

———————————Hladky
Roberts——-Worrall———Esteve———-Pires
———————Cullen——Brownhill
—-Koleosho———-Amdouni———-Sarmiento
———————————-Foster

Greene, Egan-Riley, Sambo, Humphreys, Hannibal, Zaroury, Houtondji, Rodriguez


The depth without knowing where the Hell Tresor and Delcroix are, and how far off fitness Ramsey, Redmond, Beyer and Ekdal are is not so hot though. I reckon we need to sign (on top of Worrall, Sarmiento and Hannibal):

Goalkeeper (assuming Trafford goes)
Centre Mid
Right Wing

[123EasyasBFC]

Selling one or two each year makes sense. On the face of it this looks like a fire sale. Debt reducing and servicing look to be the priority even if it breaks up the team and squad. Lining the previous Chairman’s pockets and putting the club into huge debt means this is probably a sign of things to come.

It only looks like a fire sale because we stock piled players for 2 years, are the start of pre season we had what 40 senior players, many cast aside by the previous manager, whether we wanted to or not we had to lose about 15 players leave purely for squad size

[Row x]

Unless something goes wrong he should be coming

Where is that being reported?

[123EasyasBFC]

I’ll try to be positive and say that this team would still get promoted (no idea on homegrown status before RV sorts me out ):

———————————Hladky
Roberts——-Worrall———Esteve———-Pires
———————Cullen——Brownhill
—-Koleosho———-Amdouni———-Sarmiento
———————————-Foster

Greene, Egan-Riley, Sambo, Humphreys, Hannibal, Zaroury, Houtondji, Rodriguez


The depth without knowing where the Hell Tresor and Delcroix are, and how far off fitness Ramsey, Redmond, Beyer and Ekdal are is not so hot though. I reckon we need to sign (on top of Worrall, Sarmiento and Hannibal):

Goalkeeper (assuming Trafford goes)
Centre Mid
Right Wing

That squad should be top 2

[Vegas Claret]

Where is that being reported?

Not a clue on that tbh. I was told about him coming before the Cardiff game but other than having that reiterated I don't know anything more

[mdd2]

The buy/sign and sell at a profit whilst for us it can only be the way forward and we did have a lot of success with it in the 1960's but the 70's and 80's did show what can happen if you replace the good with awful players-remember Hamilton's sale to I think Oxford and we signed a declining Neil Whatmore. Fine when we sold Connelly and replaced with Morgan but we need to be careful we dont sell the silver and end up with fools gold.
Just cant get my head around letting Vitinho leave given how little we paid for him.

[Vegas Claret]

Right lads, I'm off. I've been sold to Al-Ettifaq, tripled my wages. Don't worry I'll be back in a bit once it doesn't work out

[NewClaret]

Unless something goes wrong he should be coming

Not heard anything other than his name as part of a selection of players. I’d say he’s the best of the lot but I don’t get it at all.

Doesn’t look particularly fast, no real turn of pace, quite diminutive, think he only scored 3 for Ipswich in a promotion team - Anass and Benny had better stats. Presumably Ipswich didn’t fancy him. Doesn’t strike me as a premier league player and you’d expect Brighton to know if he was.

I can only imagine the plan is to put him left and Koleosho right. But even then I just think we’d be so much better playing Anass and trying to lift his value. Makes no sense at all to me.

Would rather we went in for JBL.

[claretskeith]

It could be worse. This could be happening with a paper-thin squad.

[Vegas Claret]

Not heard anything other than his name as part of a selection of players. I’d say he’s the best of the lot but I don’t get it at all.

Doesn’t look particularly fast, no real turn of pace, quite diminutive, think he only scored 3 for Ipswich in a promotion team - Anass and Benny had better stats. Presumably Ipswich didn’t fancy him. Doesn’t strike me as a premier league player and you’d expect Brighton to know if he was.

I can only imagine the plan is to put him left and Koleosho right. But even then I just think we’d be so much better playing Anass and trying to lift his value. Makes no sense at all to me.

Would rather we went in for JBL.

me too mate, not much of this is making any sense.

[scamander]

If we do sign Hannibal I am available (have Roman armour from my time in reinactment). It's later kit than would have been worn by the Romans at the time but just in case

[ArmchairDetective]

Sevilla were absolutely tosh last season, the worst Sevilla side in recent memory.

Maybe they should have played Hannibal a bit more then

[123EasyasBFC]

Not heard anything other than his name as part of a selection of players. I’d say he’s the best of the lot but I don’t get it at all.

Doesn’t look particularly fast, no real turn of pace, quite diminutive, think he only scored 3 for Ipswich in a promotion team - Anass and Benny had better stats. Presumably Ipswich didn’t fancy him. Doesn’t strike me as a premier league player and you’d expect Brighton to know if he was.

I can only imagine the plan is to put him left and Koleosho right. But even then I just think we’d be so much better playing Anass and trying to lift his value. Makes no sense at all to me.

Would rather we went in for JBL.

You’d argue that if benson and zaroury are leaving along with JBG then we would need more than just Sarmiento, especially if Tresor and Redmond are nowhere near fitness

[Dark Cloud]

When Kompany took over we were having something of a major reset following relegation and understandably we were all very nervous because there was an exodus of good players underway. Mee, Tarks, Collins, Westwood, Lowton et al. Cork was clearly coming to the end and we'd lost Pope and Wood only shortly before. However, far from being gloomy, that summer was brilliant because almost every day we were bringing in new, young, exciting talent from lower leagues all over Europe and beyond. For all his faults (which became increasingly clear over last season and since he's left) Kompany, because of his name, could attract talent and although there's a lot of discussion around how much say managers have in signings, he was obviously well versed in the leagues of Europe and the unheralded talent which can be found there. Not everything worked (Bastien, Churlinov) but many have. We're now facing another reset. The difference is our most talented players who could clearly dominate this division are suddenly queuing up to leave and the replacements linked (such as they are) are names like the guy from Chelsea who was at Swansea last season and let's be honest they weren't very good and another guy from Chelsea who Ipswich had last year and have chosen to pass on. Atm it has the gloomy feelings of a fire sale and I never felt that way two years ago. Hope I'm wrong.

[Vegas Claret]

I think I've seen links to this Madsen chap earlier on in the thread, he's off to QPR
https://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20240820_9300 ... witterfeed

[bfcmik]

Atm it has the gloomy feelings of a fire sale and I never felt that way two years ago. Hope I'm wrong.

If it was a fire sale then we wouldn't be signing new players or holding out for decent transfer fees, as a fire sale implies that you are totally skint.

Instead we have made signings and are still actively recruiting to strengthen the squad. Relegation means that clubs will see your players as being available and some of your players wanting to get back to the top flight with a move, all you can do is set your value and not sell until that value is met.

[dibraidio]

Just cant get my head around letting Vitinho leave given how little we paid for him.

No prices being quoted in the stories I read. They seem to be suggesting that they want a loan with an option to buy.
There are stories in the Brazilian press (Terra and Gazeta do Urubu) that says Botafoga have an agreement with the player but not the club (isn't that illegal?) and that they have other options if Burnley don't want to do business. CNN Brazil says he's one of two targets. Gazeta says Flamengo are also interested.

According to vamofutebol.com

Botafogo took the lead and already presented a loan proposal with an option to purchase, which was well received by the player, especially with regard to salary. On the other hand, Flamengo has not yet formalized an official offer, although talks have been ongoing for more than a week.

They suggest that he is keen to return to Brazil because he thinks it will improve his chances of playing for the Brazilian national team.

I have no idea if Vitinho really wants to go back to Brazil but a loan move now really doesn't sound like the sort of deal that would appeal to ALK. His versatility would also be a huge loss.

[RVclaret]

Vitinho to Brazil links wide of the mark according to David Anderson

https://x.com/mirroranderson/status/182 ... 05888?s=46

[Row x]

Burnley are also signing centre-half Bashir Humphreys from Chelsea, but reports linking Vitinho with a move back to Brazil and Botafogo appear wide of the mark. #burnley

David Anderson of the mirror

[Vegas Claret]

His versatility would also be a huge loss.

100%, I get most of the others but letting Vitinho go unless it's for stupid money makes no sense at all

[RicardoMontalban]

Selling one or two each year makes sense. On the face of it this looks like a fire sale.

Had we stayed in the prem then I suspect that’s more like what we’d have seen. Alas, Kompany tried to go all Megamind and 4D chess his way to survival, and we got relegated with nearly 2 squads worth of players in the books.

[SonofPog]

.....that summer was brilliant because almost every day we were bringing in new, young, exciting talent from lower leagues all over Europe and beyond....

If it helps you out, we've brought in four 1st team players, 2 of those are young and from abroad. (3 if you count Green), the other being a solid GK.

Yes, the links are to "known" Prem / champ players, but that doesn't mean something wont come out of the blue. I don't think we've stopped shopping abroad just yet.

[wilks_bfc]

Vitinho to Brazil links wide of the mark according to David Anderson

https://x.com/mirroranderson/status/182 ... 05888?s=46

Good news if that’s the case

It did seem an odd one, with the reasons stated it was to have more chance of getting an international call up. Most of the Brazil squad play in Europe anyway

[Colburn_Claret]

The buy/sign and sell at a profit whilst for us it can only be the way forward and we did have a lot of success with it in the 1960's but the 70's and 80's did show what can happen if you replace the good with awful players-remember Hamilton's sale to I think Oxford and we signed a declining Neil Whatmore. Fine when we sold Connelly and replaced with Morgan but we need to be careful we dont sell the silver and end up with fools gold.
Just cant get my head around letting Vitinho leave given how little we paid for him.

Whether you are a fan of it or not, the analytical modern scouting system appears to work. Back in the day we were reliant on people with the golden eye, can't remember the name of our NE Scout back in the 60s.
Selling a couple to balance the books (whilst having a replacement in house), losing 2 who don't look like making the grade, and buying 4 each summer window who we hope can progress sounds about right.
This window is definitely not atypical just because of the size of the squad. We are making profits on sales, but we will make a lot of money also just having 12 or so fewer wages to pay.

The problem in the 70s probably stemmed from losing our chief scouts, not having the ready replacements, the relegations this brought about, and the less attractiveness of us as a route to the top of the game. The main problem though was as it is today, the removal of the maximum wage Jimmy Hill, meant that most clubs could pay more in wages than us. It's still the case today, the only difference in our favour being we now have a world wide pool to fish in, and bargains can be found. In the 70s and 80s we had next to no chance.

[whiffa]

Does anyone see Hannibal as a potential replacement for Berge? Different types of player I know. My only concern with Hannibal is his temperament, clearly a gifted footballer. Not sure which of the two I'd prefer in the side if it had to be a choice.

[BedlingtonTerrier]

Think it was Jack Hixon in the north east.

[mdd2]

Yes I think it was

[Rick_Muller]

Kompany tried to go all Megamind

OMG - I see it now - that's spit your coffee out funny that

Megamind-vs-the-Doom-Syndicate.png (617.54 KiB) Viewed 2453 times

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Botafoga have an agreement with the player but not the club (isn't that illegal?)

I think so yes! but it's one of them, how do you prove it?

I assume the game is rife with it, as most clubs will just reach an agreement with the agent and not the player, circumventing the rules.

[JimmyRobbo]

Does anyone see Hannibal as a potential replacement for Berge? Different types of player I know. My only concern with Hannibal is his temperament, clearly a gifted footballer. Not sure which of the two I'd prefer in the side if it had to be a choice.

Quite right. He doesn't cure my concern about height in midfield, either. 3 x CM would all be average or shorter.

Money aside, I'd pick Berge every day.

[dansch]

Brentford strongly linked to signing CB Sepp Van den Berg from Liverpool for around £20m which might mean their interest in O'Shea has cooled.

[claretskeith]

Brentford strongly linked to signing CB Sepp Van den Berg from Liverpool for around £20m which might mean their interest in O'Shea has cooled.

If O'Shea ends up staying... go on I'll say it... it'll be like a new signing.

[RicardoMontalban]

He caused a lot of violent unrest across Italy too

Surprised to see he’s not a product of the Barca academy.

[Blyclaret]

It’s Wolves that have a big interest in O Shea now

[BigGaz]

I think so yes! but it's one of them, how do you prove it?

I assume the game is rife with it, as most clubs will just reach an agreement with the agent and not the player, circumventing the rules.

A club can give a player permission to begin talking to another club to agree terms if they are open to selling but just haven't agreed on a fee yet.

Often done on deadline day where time is of the essence, so you have representatives from either side putting elements of the deal into buckets and working on them in tandem rather than ticking off items one by one.

As always, the devil is in the detail and it depends what's gone on. I'm not aware of noise that anyone's acted in an underhanded way so can only conclude that the club have encouraged a bid and allowed them to start talking to each other