RATE THE REF - David Webb v Portsmouth

[jdrobbo]

David Webb (Sunderland) v Portsmouth

How to Score
A. Decision Making (including use of advantage) - out of 25
B. Consistency - out of 25
C. Fitness and Positioning - of 25
D. Control and Authority - out of 25


Please only Rate the Ref if you attended the game and only do so, after the game has ended. Thank you

[jdrobbo]

A 5
B 5
C 7
D 7

[Rowls]

A. 9
B. 7
C. 8
D. 6

[MeeActon1]

5
5
15
5

Awful.

[MrTopTier]

One of the few refs I just cannot be arsed with.

An over officious dick.

5
5
12
5

[ClaretTony]

A 6
B 6
C 8
D 4

Absolutely appalling

[Spike]

A)6
B)4
C)8
D) 7

How the hell did Flemming get booked over the time wasting antics of Norris

[MDWat]

3
3
3
3

Hilariously bad.

[The Shire Claret]

Don’t like to hammer refs - they have a tough job and 99% of crowds couldn’t and wouldn’t do the job but well below par today

A 5
B 5
C 20
D 5

[beeholeclaret]

5
10
5
5


He was hopeless and completely lost control in the second half. I know there are players on both sides diving and pretending they’ve been hurt but surely the refs are trained to deal with this sort of thing.

A yellow card would’ve ensured Norris and his fellow defenders stopped taking the **** with time wasting antics.

I predicted with 20 minutes left that Pompey players would start to lie down and roll around and the ref bought it completely.

The Portsmouth players virtually refereed the match in second half.

Although his fitness levels can’t be criticised his positioning was poor. He always seemed to be in the way when we were trying to break down the lines.

He was effectively a 12th man in their defensive block at times.

It says something that there are comments like this on a day when we won.

[CrosspoolClarets]

A - 5. Missed a clear red on Sarmiento and numerous others
B - 5. Only four freekicks for us summed him up
C - 5. Never seen a ref hit or nearly hit as often.
D - 5. Didn’t stamp down at all on diving and time-wasting but gets marks for the time added on

I didn’t think this clown could get any worse after wrongly sending off Roberts 2 years ago, which was rescinded, but he has. Now clearly too old and slow.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

5
5
5
5
Unbelievably bad.Obviously never played the game at any level.Appalling.

[Ric_C]

Awful for both sides. But mainly terrible for us for the main fact he fell for the time-wasting antics hook line and sinker. Norris pinching easily 15 yards at most free-kicks, then being told to go back, so he walks back 5 yards and throws the ball forward 5 yards, no talking to.

Missed countless off the ball muggings from them
Lost count the amount of times they pulled our shirts with no foul given
The Flemming booking, just bizarre. He gives no foul for the shoulder barge, and the other player retaliates, result, booking for both players
Pompey player "hurt his side"... I know I'll stop the game and give a drop ball.
Soft free-kick after soft free-kick given for them.

4
4
4
4

[Woodleyclaret]

4
4
4
4
Total shite

[Turfmoorclaret]

A. Decision Making (including use of advantage) - 6
B. Consistency - 5
C. Fitness and Positioning - 5
D. Control and Authority - 4

[agreenwood]

10
8
5
8

Thought the worst thing about him was his positioning. Ignoring the ball that hit him, he consistently found himself in the thick of the midfield action and players were having to avoid him to keep the play going.

[MACCA]

I don't generally comment these days as it's just getting silly in terms of rules/refereeing, however I genuinely thing a Sunday league would have been able to perform better yesterday

He was just really really crap

5
5
5
5

[Beagleheart]

9
8
5
5

Incomprehensibly poor.

[4:20]

5
6
4
4

An awful referee yesterday.

[Hipper]

May be it's a passion thing but I've just watched this game on Clarets+ Replay and I thought the ref was pretty good!!!

Let's have a look at some of the criticisms I've read on this site:

1. Constantly in the way. I saw just one incident where a Burnley crossfield pass from nearby hit him. He correctly restarted play with a free drop ball to us.
2. We were penalised for 15 fouls whilst Portsmouth only conceded 4. All the fouls by us looked correct except the Egan-Riley one near the end of the match. We are in fact a fouling team. Look at the stats for our previous five matches this season: Luton 17, Cardiff 19, Sunderland 19, Blackburn 15, Leeds 13 (from the BBC).
3. Yellow cards. Both correct. Cullen - uncontrolled tackle. Flemming - 'handbags'. Flemming pushed his luck after that and couldn't have been far from a red.
4. Pompey player hurts his side so stops play. Whether he is really hurt or not it's not the ref's position to judge - he's not a physio. The ball was with our defenders and he did the right thing to stop play then, allow treatment, and restart with a free drop ball to our defenders.
5. Timewasting generally. We do it too. All sides do it. It's one of today's football rituals. If you are winning you get cramps, injuries from nothing etc. etc.. Surely we all know this? Until managers stop their players from doing this nonsense we will continually see it.

In addition I thought he let a few things we did go near the end where Portsmouth could have got yet more fouls given in their favour.

I've no problem with this ref, or the one who did the PNE - Blackburn game!

[ClaretTony]

May be it's a passion thing but I've just watched this game on Clarets+ Replay and I thought the ref was pretty good!!!

Let's have a look at some of the criticisms I've read on this site:

1. Constantly in the way. I saw just one incident where a Burnley crossfield pass from nearby hit him. He correctly restarted play with a free drop ball to us.
2. We were penalised for 15 fouls whilst Portsmouth only conceded 4. All the fouls by us looked correct except the Egan-Riley one near the end of the match. We are in fact a fouling team. Look at the stats for our previous five matches this season: Luton 17, Cardiff 19, Sunderland 19, Blackburn 15, Leeds 13 (from the BBC).
3. Yellow cards. Both correct. Cullen - uncontrolled tackle. Flemming - 'handbags'. Flemming pushed his luck after that and couldn't have been far from a red.
4. Pompey player hurts his side so stops play. Whether he is really hurt or not it's not the ref's position to judge - he's not a physio. The ball was with our defenders and he did the right thing to stop play then, allow treatment, and restart with a free drop ball to our defenders.
5. Timewasting generally. We do it too. All sides do it. It's one of today's football rituals. If you are winning you get cramps, injuries from nothing etc. etc.. Surely we all know this? Until managers stop their players from doing this nonsense we will continually see it.

In addition I thought he let a few things we did go near the end where Portsmouth could have got yet more fouls given in their favour.

I've no problem with this ref, or the one who did the PNE - Blackburn game!

If you thought the Flemming card was justified then you weren’t watching the game I was watching. I’ve seen it back since and it is a ridiculous decision.

I also think your comments highlight that jdrobbo is absolutely correct in only permitting ratings from those in attendance.

[Rowls]

May be it's a passion thing but I've just watched this game on Clarets+ Replay and I thought the ref was pretty good!!!

Let's have a look at some of the criticisms I've read on this site:

1. Constantly in the way. I saw just one incident where a Burnley crossfield pass from nearby hit him. He correctly restarted play with a free drop ball to us.
2. We were penalised for 15 fouls whilst Portsmouth only conceded 4. All the fouls by us looked correct except the Egan-Riley one near the end of the match. We are in fact a fouling team. Look at the stats for our previous five matches this season: Luton 17, Cardiff 19, Sunderland 19, Blackburn 15, Leeds 13 (from the BBC).
3. Yellow cards. Both correct. Cullen - uncontrolled tackle. Flemming - 'handbags'. Flemming pushed his luck after that and couldn't have been far from a red.
4. Pompey player hurts his side so stops play. Whether he is really hurt or not it's not the ref's position to judge - he's not a physio. The ball was with our defenders and he did the right thing to stop play then, allow treatment, and restart with a free drop ball to our defenders.
5. Timewasting generally. We do it too. All sides do it. It's one of today's football rituals. If you are winning you get cramps, injuries from nothing etc. etc.. Surely we all know this? Until managers stop their players from doing this nonsense we will continually see it.

In addition I thought he let a few things we did go near the end where Portsmouth could have got yet more fouls given in their favour.

I've no problem with this ref, or the one who did the PNE - Blackburn game!

Disagree with nearly everything you've put but that's what life is about.

[Hipper]

If you thought the Flemming card was justified then you weren’t watching the game I was watching. I’ve seen it back since and it is a ridiculous decision.

Flemming's 'challenge' wasn't a shoulder charge if that is what you are thinking. A shoulder charge is nicely summed up here:

https://refchat.co.uk/threads/barge-or- ... der.12461/

Firstly, there is nothing in law saying shoulder to shoulder is no foul. The only thing you have to judge by is if it's fair or a careless (or higher) charge.
In addition to SF's general rule, they should both be running in the same general direction. If one is coming form the side with speed, has eyes only for the player then in most cases its a foul.


To me it was Flemming 'coming form the side with speed, has eyes only for the player'. He was overly aggressive too. That is clearly a yellow card. What else could he have been doing?

[Hipper]

I also think your comments highlight that jdrobbo is absolutely correct in only permitting ratings from those in attendance.

I've no argument with this. I of course haven't put any ratings up. I'm just astonished that there is such a difference between my views from watching on TV (and in this case watching when knowing the result) and those that went to the game.

Perhaps I should just leave this these threads to stew in their own juice and make my comments elsewhere.

[PaintYorkClaretnBlue]

May be it's a passion thing but I've just watched this game on Clarets+ Replay and I thought the ref was pretty good!!!

Let's have a look at some of the criticisms I've read on this site:

1. Constantly in the way. I saw just one incident where a Burnley crossfield pass from nearby hit him. He correctly restarted play with a free drop ball to us.
2. We were penalised for 15 fouls whilst Portsmouth only conceded 4. All the fouls by us looked correct except the Egan-Riley one near the end of the match. We are in fact a fouling team. Look at the stats for our previous five matches this season: Luton 17, Cardiff 19, Sunderland 19, Blackburn 15, Leeds 13 (from the BBC).
3. Yellow cards. Both correct. Cullen - uncontrolled tackle. Flemming - 'handbags'. Flemming pushed his luck after that and couldn't have been far from a red.
4. Pompey player hurts his side so stops play. Whether he is really hurt or not it's not the ref's position to judge - he's not a physio. The ball was with our defenders and he did the right thing to stop play then, allow treatment, and restart with a free drop ball to our defenders.
5. Timewasting generally. We do it too. All sides do it. It's one of today's football rituals. If you are winning you get cramps, injuries from nothing etc. etc.. Surely we all know this? Until managers stop their players from doing this nonsense we will continually see it.

In addition I thought he let a few things we did go near the end where Portsmouth could have got yet more fouls given in their favour.

I've no problem with this ref, or the one who did the PNE - Blackburn game!

Number 4

It wasn’t a head injury so the ref shouldn’t have stopped the game. He should have waited until the ball was dead before allowing the physio on.

[ClaretTony]

Flemming's 'challenge' wasn't a shoulder charge if that is what you are thinking. A shoulder charge is nicely summed up here:

https://refchat.co.uk/threads/barge-or- ... der.12461/

Firstly, there is nothing in law saying shoulder to shoulder is no foul. The only thing you have to judge by is if it's fair or a careless (or higher) charge.
In addition to SF's general rule, they should both be running in the same general direction. If one is coming form the side with speed, has eyes only for the player then in most cases its a foul.


To me it was Flemming 'coming form the side with speed, has eyes only for the player'. He was overly aggressive too. That is clearly a yellow card. What else could he have been doing?

Don’t agree with you at all

[ClaretTony]

Number 4

It wasn’t a head injury so the ref shouldn’t have stopped the game. He should have waited until the ball was dead before allowing the physio on.

100% - another one that Webb got wrong

[Rowls]

I've no argument with this. I of course haven't put any ratings up. I'm just astonished that there is such a difference between my views from watching on TV (and in this case watching when knowing the result) and those that went to the game.

Perhaps I should just leave this these threads to stew in their own juice and make my comments elsewhere.

It would be a shame if your comments weren't welcomed in the right spirit - even by those of us who disagree with you.

Being at the match is necessary to make certain informed decisions (like the referee's positioning, which won't always be caught on camera) but it leaves us susceptible to group think for having formed part of the crowd. However, the same factors are at play when you take in the commentators and pundits opinions when watching it on TV (as well as the far more subtle editing and production choices as to whether we're going to discuss this or that).

None of us can ever be completely neutral on these matters, we can only ever do our best to honest and understand our biases.

Another big factor in terms of bias is if we allow ourselves to read other's marks on here before posting our own. It probably works best if people don't scroll down and see other verdicts before posting their own.

It's only a observational, but these kind of threads appear to have a habit of becoming more conformist the longer they get.

[Luppy]

An absolute shocker

A - 5
B - 5
C - 5
D - 5

How nobody was booked for time wasting only he will know. Fell for every fall to the floor. Embarrassing performance

[claretspice]

Flemming's 'challenge' wasn't a shoulder charge if that is what you are thinking. A shoulder charge is nicely summed up here:

https://refchat.co.uk/threads/barge-or- ... der.12461/

Firstly, there is nothing in law saying shoulder to shoulder is no foul. The only thing you have to judge by is if it's fair or a careless (or higher) charge.
In addition to SF's general rule, they should both be running in the same general direction. If one is coming form the side with speed, has eyes only for the player then in most cases its a foul.


To me it was Flemming 'coming form the side with speed, has eyes only for the player'. He was overly aggressive too. That is clearly a yellow card. What else could he have been doing?

I think that this can only be correct if the ref deemed Flemming's challenge a foul, surely? And the problem is he didn't. He gave a throw in. The only way that wouldn't stand is if he deemed the ball to already be dead and that isn't how it appeared to me live. I therefore assumed he'd booked Flemming for his part in the afters, and the issue was he didn't have one. Had he booked him for the initial challenge I'm not sure I'd have complained.

My frustration with the ref was that he was far more concerned with pedantry about where the free kick/throw in was taken (and preventing quick free kicks so he could be in exactly the position he wanted) than enforcing the rules on time wasting. It annoys me when teams steal 10 yards plus at a throw, so I'm glad he was hot on that, but pushing Norris back 5 yards for an offside on or around the 18 yard box was pointless and just slowed the game down. Eventually Pompey cottoned on that if they took a free kick from the wrong place, or too quickly, they'd get to blast the ball 80 yards down the pitch and take it again, wasting two lots of time and disrupting the game- entirely because of the way the ref managed the game. He created a wholly unnecessary loophole for them and they exploited it 4 or 5 times.

He also then failed to enforce the requirement players leave the field at the nearest exit - it was frustration about that which caused the melee after Flemming's shoulder charge.

[ClaretTony]

I think that this can only be correct if the ref deemed Flemming's challenge a foul, surely? And the problem is he didn't. He gave a throw in. The only way that wouldn't stand is if he deemed the ball to already be dead and that isn't how it appeared to me live. I therefore assumed he'd booked Flemming for his part in the afters, and the issue was he didn't have one. Had he booked him for the initial challenge I'm not sure I'd have complained.

My frustration with the ref was that he was far more concerned with pedantry about where the free kick/throw in was taken (and preventing quick free kicks so he could be in exactly the position he wanted) than enforcing the rules on time wasting. It annoys me when teams steal 10 yards plus at a throw, so I'm glad he was hot on that, but pushing Norris back 5 yards for an offside on or around the 18 yard box was pointless and just slowed the game down. Eventually Pompey cottoned on that if they took a free kick from the wrong place, or too quickly, they'd get to blast the ball 80 yards down the pitch and take it again, wasting two lots of time and disrupting the game- entirely because of the way the ref managed the game. He created a wholly unnecessary loophole for them and they exploited it 4 or 5 times.

He also then failed to enforce the requirement players leave the field at the nearest exit - it was frustration about that which caused the melee after Flemming's shoulder charge.

It’s not a foul at all claretspice and as you have rightly said, the referee awarded a throw in to Burnley which was the correct decision. And the ball was not dead at the time. He clearly saw nothing untoward.

When the Portsmouth player reacted, that’s when the referee blew. He rightly carded him but no wonder Flemming looked totally bemused when he received a yellow card. He’d not been involved in anything at all, he’d had the sense to get away.

You are so right too on his constant moving a free kick of throw a really short distance and as you said it just played into Portsmouth’s hands.

Overall, as bad a refereeing performance as I’ve seen in a long time.

[jdrobbo]

Flemming's 'challenge' wasn't a shoulder charge if that is what you are thinking. A shoulder charge is nicely summed up here:

https://refchat.co.uk/threads/barge-or- ... der.12461/

Firstly, there is nothing in law saying shoulder to shoulder is no foul. The only thing you have to judge by is if it's fair or a careless (or higher) charge.
In addition to SF's general rule, they should both be running in the same general direction. If one is coming form the side with speed, has eyes only for the player then in most cases its a foul.


To me it was Flemming 'coming form the side with speed, has eyes only for the player'. He was overly aggressive too. That is clearly a yellow card. What else could he have been doing?

But the game restarted with a throw-in? No foul was committed!

[Wokingclaret]

Dreadful ref, the sub time was just radicicolous, at least we benefitted.

[Wokingclaret]

Dreadful ref, the sub time was just radicicolous, at least we benefitted.

5
5
5
5

Caused all the problems this match. That should be his last game

[Devils_Advocate]

Perhaps I should just leave this these threads to stew in their own juice and make my comments elsewhere.

Please don't, when it comes to discussions about the ref's performance you are one of the very few balanced, objective and sensible views we got on here.

As for CT saying that "your comments highlight that jdrobbo is absolutely correct in only permitting ratings from those in attendance" I think it actually shows how ridiculous and pointless these ratings are as the majority of fans are so blinded by bias and wrapped up in the emotion of the game their views don't reflect the actually reality (as your OP laid out perfectly)

Thing I find amusing is that every away game we get a "homer" yet at home the refs suddenly seem to favour the away side.

[bobinho]

So, one guy who watched it on telly gets the only balanced view, and everyone else who attended the game, and could see in real time how poor he was, are wrong because they are emotionally biased because of the occasion? Had we lost, you might have a point. As it is, your assessment is fairly crackpot, even for you!

Nowt wrong with having a different view Hipper, please continue to share it, even when you are the only person to have it. By all means be controversial, but unlike others, please try to make sure you’re not just doing it for the sake of it, or because you are bored. That sort of thing just bores others.

And JD…. your feature, your rules. As it happens, I’d like to contribute when I have only watched on telly, but not enough to have a chunter, and I’m ok with sitting it out.

[bart_claret]

His kit looked as though it had been washed & ironed. That is as good as it got.