The reality, perspective!!

[Lowbankclaret]

Look at history of the championship. You need 70-80 goals to be in the top two.

People feel free to write down how many goals are in this team.

Discounting the first two games, we have 50 at most.

Thats not Parker’s fault.

It is what it is.

It’s not a style of play, nor how they set up, just a fact we don’t have enough players who can score goals.

Go on list the players and goals they will get, let’s see if anyone can get over 50.?

[Stonehouse]

Not 100% Parker’s fault but the way he sets up we go backwards and sideways ,and when he makes excuses about having a young team that weren’t used to a break in play due to the linesman’s injury and they couldn’t cope with is taking the fans for mugs ,Fulham and Bournemouth fans have echoed the same about his boring safety first football,I wouldn’t sack him just yet but things need to change before Christmas or we can forget promotion ,and if his future signings are the same quality as Anthony then the **** will really hit the fan.

[Lowbankclaret]

Not 100% Parker’s fault but the way he sets up we go backwards and sideways ,and when he makes excuses about having a young team that weren’t used to a break in play due to the linesman’s injury and they couldn’t cope with is taking the fans for mugs ,Fulham and Bournemouth fans have echoed the same about his boring safety first football,I wouldn’t sack him just yet but things need to change before Christmas or we can forget promotion ,and if his future signings are the same quality as Anthony then the **** will really hit the fan.

So how many goals do you see in this team. Simple question

[CrosspoolClarets]

Not sure statistics work by disregarding the stats that don’t fit our argument.

Feels like we are set for 60 goals, not 50, but yes, I feel that number needs to be 70. I’m sure he will be pondering this more than we are.

I feel goals conceded will only be 30-40. So not pretty but still a great chance.

[Lowbankclaret]

Please list your 69 goals against the players that get them

[Elizabeth]

Flemming 15
Brownhill 12
Foster 10
New striker in Jan 8
Widemen combined 10
Defenders combined 6
Ogs 2
Cullen 2
Lauren 2
Hannibal 2

How am I doing?

[dsr]

Flemming 15
Brownhill 12
Foster 10
New striker in Jan 8
Widemen combined 10
Defenders combined 6
Ogs 2
Cullen 2
Lauren 2
Hannibal 2

How am I doing?

You're doing wonderfully optimistically!

Dyche's system was to play two centre forwards, one scoring 20+ and the other backing him up with 15 or so, plus a fair few goals from centre halves at corners. Kompany's system was to play just one centre forward who scored close to 20 goals and a "number 10/widish player" who got forward at will and added another 20, plus midfielders and wingers popping up from everywhere to add to the tally.

Parker certainly isn't going to use either of those systems. So what next?

[Vegas Claret]

Not Parkers fault ? we could lump it to two big men up top and be far more threatening than we currently are.

[Stonehouse]

So how many goals do you see in this team. Simple question

About 40 if we’re lucky.

[Herts Clarets]

Look at history of the championship. You need 70-80 goals to be in the top two.

People feel free to write down how many goals are in this team.

Discounting the first two games, we have 50 at most.

Thats not Parker’s fault.

It is what it is.

It’s not a style of play, nor how they set up, just a fact we don’t have enough players who can score goals.

Go on list the players and goals they will get, let’s see if anyone can get over 50.?

We could have had Harland, Kane and Salah upfront on Sunday, we still wouldn't have scored. It is nothing to do with not having goalscorers and everything to do with an obsession with possession for the sake of it. We went 1 down early in the second half and barely got the ball into their box, never mind tested their keeper. Something needs to change.

[dibraidio]

Koleosho 2 in 12 > 8 in 46
Anthony 1 in 9 > 5 in 46
Sarmiento 1 in 1 start and 7 sub appearances > 5 in 46
Flemming 1 in 4 > 11 in 46
Foster 1 in 8 > 6 in 46
Brownhill 5 in 13 > 17 in 46
Total: 52

Some of those are very generous, it's not because they've scored once that they're going to do it anywhere near that often.

9 goals in the last 11 games > 53 in 44 (excluding those first two games where we scored for fun before everyone left).

Without the possibility to recruit before January we could arguably improve on set pieces and add nearly 20 goals, in 2023 Cardiff scored 21 from set pieces, Ipswich 19, Norwich 18.... That would get us close to 70 but we're far from that right now.

I can see Flemming having a good season but that will probably be tempered by the fact that Brownhill will tail off as the season goes on. We need someone else to step up a level. What's worrying is the lack of goals from the strikers.

I agree with the OP, it's not 100% down to Scott Parker, that last week of the transfer window left us with a very average set of forward options when we needed them to be exceptional for this level of football.

[Quickenthetempo]

The players might not be good enough but they haven't got a chance under Parkers system.

It's so slow, teams get back into defend easily.

[dibraidio]

The players might not be good enough but they haven't got a chance under Parkers system.

It's so slow, teams get back into defend easily.

So you're suggesting that he should quicken the tempo?

[CaptJohn]

A fair chunk of the goals that we've scored so far were from players no longer at the club. Odobert, O'Shea, JBG, Amdouni. A couple were made by Vitinho who is no longer here. It's not rocket science and not SP's fault IMHO. Put those five back in the squad and things would be far rosier. I know it's a money issue but the stark reality is we've sold our chance at automatic promotion and unless SP can pull a rabbit out of the hat, the best we can hope for is a play-off place.

[ChorltonCharlie]

You're doing wonderfully optimistically!

Dyche's system was to play two centre forwards, one scoring 20+ and the other backing him up with 15 or so, plus a fair few goals from centre halves at corners. Kompany's system was to play just one centre forward who scored close to 20 goals and a "number 10/widish player" who got forward at will and added another 20, plus midfielders and wingers popping up from everywhere to add to the tally.

Parker certainly isn't going to use either of those systems. So what next?

I think you're missing the point. The OP was on about whether there was goals in the team not whether Parkers tactics would get us those goals. There's been a tendency from some to be hyper-critical of the players. I think Elizabeth's point is we do have players who will get goals if used right.

[Dark Cloud]

We'll be lucky to get 10 games out of Foster, let alone 10 goals!!

[Hipper]

In that early spell against Millwall we carried a threat. It seemed to me that there was good movement up front, from Hountondji and Laurent in particular, and quite speedy balls forward. Then it all stopped. I don't know why.

Apart from the first two games, the match when we most looked like scoring was Leeds, when we were pinned back for long periods and made some quick breaks.

There are two solutions to the problem with the current manager staying:

1. The players still haven't got the system working properly so they need more work and time to get it right. Slight tweaks to the plan or small changes in personnel could help.

2. The current players cannot play the system - we need another way of playing.

At some point either this system will start to work or he will have to change it. Parker may say that he needs other players to get things to work. Well, then it's up to the Board whether they get him more players or get someone else.

I don't know if it's fair on Parker to give him just half a season after all the upheaval at the start but I would hope something more productive at least seems possible by Christmas, some evidence that we are progressing.

I'm reminded though that when when Coyle replaced Cotterill in November 2007 there was a refreshing change in the style of play with practically the same team which brought immediate rewards - that 2-1 win at Watford was unexpected in every way. Of course it didn't properly kick off until the following amazing season.

[Sutton-Claret]

It's no good scoring goals if you're also leaking goals. We've conceded the least in the league so we're doing something right.

[Hipper]

Sorry, I've not really answered the OP's question.

Apart from what I wrote there is very little evidence lately that there are goals anywhere in this team. Eight goals in eleven games since we settled down to this current system. Simple maths says 24 goals in our remaining 33 matches making a total of 50 for the season. However we are coming up against mostly better sides then we have played up until now so it's likely less then that.

On individuals, we don't remotely look like scoring from corners or free kicks so we can count out goals from our centre backs.

Our centre forwards, Foster, Flemming, Rodriquez and Hountondji, have got two goals between them. Of those, and based mostly on the early efforts in the Millwall match, Hountondji seems the most likely to knock in a few goals, followed by Flemming.

Anthony and Koleosho are our biggest threat but only have a goal each. Whilst Sarmiento has scored he's not convincing at all.

Brownhill is our leading goalscorer with five but in some games he offers little and I'm wondering if he should be playing at all. Hannibal offers little goalscoring threat, not does Laurent or Cullen.

Pires has the odd shot. Roberts can get in the box but hasn't done much of that this season.

That leaves Trafford - as much a goalscoring threat as any other!

So even if theoretically we can score another 33 goals I just cannot see where that number will come from.

[Enola Gay]

Look at history of the championship. You need 70-80 goals to be in the top two.

People feel free to write down how many goals are in this team.

Discounting the first two games, we have 50 at most.

Thats not Parker’s fault.

It is what it is.

It’s not a style of play, nor how they set up, just a fact we don’t have enough players who can score goals.

Go on list the players and goals they will get, let’s see if anyone can get over 50.?

It sort-of is Parker’s fault though, isn’t it?

Some fans seem to have arrived at a strange position on Parker where he deserves sympathy for all the players that left (fair enough, tbf) but somehow doesn’t deserve scrutiny for the players that came in.

If his tactics could create chances for the strikers as easily as some fans make excuses for his tactics we wouldn’t be having these conversations after every stultifying performance.

[Elizabeth]

You're doing wonderfully optimistically!

Dyche's system was to play two centre forwards, one scoring 20+ and the other backing him up with 15 or so, plus a fair few goals from centre halves at corners. Kompany's system was to play just one centre forward who scored close to 20 goals and a "number 10/widish player" who got forward at will and added another 20, plus midfielders and wingers popping up from everywhere to add to the tally.

Parker certainly isn't going to use either of those systems. So what next?

I agree that it might looked that way at this particular moment in time but I have ignored all the talk of Parkerball that is bogging down objectivity for far too many.

I have looked at the scoring capabilities of certain players and the contributions that always come from defenders and defensive midfielders.

Anyone drawing the conclusion that I am happy with the way we are playing at the moment would be wrong. I also think they are wrong to have already decided that this is going to be the case over the next 33 games. I suppose I'm not into this reactionary stuff.

My projected predictions I believe are more realistic that if I had overestimated goal contributions from the defence and midfield players like Cullen and Laurent who aren't going to score more than 2-3 goals each over the season. I've also taken into account that our wide players are not great goalscorers.

If I have any doubts that my estimation may fall short it is around Foster who I have been continually frustrated by since he was signed. Having said that I'm not going to write him off from somehow crawling to double figures.

If you look at my aggregation I have included a new striker arriving in January , something I think most of us believe is essential for a strong promotion push.

Fleming is only just getting fully match fit and has a proven record and I see no reason Brownhill will not maintain his excellent goalscoring start to this season.

I would like to be wrong , but I never even considered Rodgrigues and Hout.... for a goal between them.

[clarets1978]

You know its possible to win the championship with maximum points scoring just 46 goals.

We can keep clean sheets, I suspect we are looking at winning games 1-0 but have come up short of doing that against QPR, Preston & Oxford where we drew 0-0. Think we will have to get used to the idea of this unfortunately. We arent going to be raving about how amazing we are any more

[ecc]

You know its possible to win the championship with maximum points scoring just 46 goals.

We can keep clean sheets, I suspect we are looking at winning games 1-0 but have come up short of doing that against QPR, Preston & Oxford where we drew 0-0. Think we will have to get used to the idea of this unfortunately. We arent going to be raving about how amazing we are any more

I'd be delighted with some 1-0 wins soon, absolutely delighted.

[brexit]

I never thought I would say this, but I would have Dyche back tomorrow

[kentonclaret]

It sort-of is Parker’s fault though, isn’t it?

Some fans seem to have arrived at a strange position on Parker where he deserves sympathy for all the players that left (fair enough, tbf) but somehow doesn’t deserve scrutiny for the players that came in.

If his tactics could create chances for the strikers as easily as some fans make excuses for his tactics we wouldn’t be having these conversations after every stultifying performance.

His tactics proved perfectly adequate at Fulham and Bournemouth creating plenty of scoring opportunities for Mitrovic and Solanke to bag a combined total of 55 goals (29 Solanke, 26 Mitrovic).
Bournemouth ended that season as the second highest scorers whilst having the tightest defence being the only side to concede less than 40 goals in that division.
Mitrovic was injured for the Play Off Final but Parker set up Fulham completely differently to stifle the highest scoring team Brentford (Ollie Watkins, Mbuemo, Buendia et all) to record a 2-1 win considered by many pundits to have been a tactical masterclass.
The fact remains we don’t possess a striker who will score 15 goals this season let alone 26 or 29. Flemming has an outside chance if he replicates his best ever scoring season but I have my doubts.

[dsr]

His tactics proved perfectly adequate at Fulham and Bournemouth creating plenty of scoring opportunities for Mitrovic and Solanke to bag a combined total of 55 goals (29 Solanke, 26 Mitrovic).
Bournemouth ended that season as the second highest scorers whilst having the tightest defence being the only side to concede less than 40 goals in that division.
Mitrovic was injured for the Play Off Final but Parker set up Fulham completely differently to stifle the highest scoring team Brentford (Ollie Watkins, Mbuemo, Buendia et all) to record a 2-1 win considered by many pundits to have been a tactical masterclass.
The fact remains we don’t possess a striker who will score 15 goals this season let alone 26 or 29. Flemming has an outside chance if he replicates his best ever scoring season but I have my doubts.

Which brings us back to stating the bleeding obvious. If we don't have the players to play these tactics, then we need to play different tactics.

[clarets1978]

I'd be delighted with some 1-0 wins soon, absolutely delighted.

Thats makes 2 of us!

[IanMcL]

Flemming 15
Brownhill 12
Foster 10
New striker in Jan 8
Widemen combined 10
Defenders combined 6
Ogs 2
Cullen 2
Lauren 2
Hannibal 2

How am I doing?

[IanMcL]

Flemming 15
Brownhill 12
Foster 10
New striker in Jan 8
Widemen combined 10
Defenders combined 6
Ogs 2
Cullen 2
Lauren 2
Hannibal 2

How am I doing?

Very creatively!

[jojomk1]

I never thought I would say this, but I would have Dyche back tomorrow

Never going to happen

More chance of us scoring 70 goals this season

[Lowbankclaret]

Thank you for peoples replies, I think it does show that most people would agree there are not enough goals in this team to get auto promotion!
I don’t think a different style would change the stat of goals scored.

We don’t have two strikers we could lump it to.

I think the conclusion should be we need two new strikers in Jan.

Not a new manager. I feel he was dealt a bad hand in the transfer window.

[Lowbankclaret]

Flemming 15
Brownhill 12
Foster 10
New striker in Jan 8
Widemen combined 10
Defenders combined 6
Ogs 2
Cullen 2
Lauren 2
Hannibal 2

How am I doing?

Like others, I think that’s optimistic. Plus you added a striker in Jan.

We will see as time goes on if the number of goals improves.

[Elizabeth]

Very creatively!

Talking about creativity Ian, when are you going to call Houtondji by his proper name?

[kentonclaret]

Flemming 15
Brownhill 12
Foster 10
New striker in Jan 8
Widemen combined 10
Defenders combined 6
Ogs 2
Cullen 2
Lauren 2
Hannibal 2

How am I doing?

Stretching it to the limits of credibility by expecting 2 goals from Ole Gunnar Solskjaer

[IanMcL]

Talking about creativity Ian, when are you going to call Houtondji by his proper name?

When he scores goals, controls ball and makes things happen.
Currently, the opposite. However, I did like the way he turned and shot last Saturday, before being overwhelmed.

[Elizabeth]

I think it’s really because you cannot spell his name

[clarets1978]

Im just going to back up my point again. Millwall have just gained 12pts in 4 games scoring just 4 goals. You dont have to be scoring 80 goals a season to do it! I think we are more likely to see games like Leeds again if we get to where Parker would want us to be

[kentonclaret]

Im just going to back up my point again. Millwall have just gained 12pts in 4 games scoring just 4 goals. You dont have to be scoring 80 goals a season to do it! I think we are more likely to see games like Leeds again if we get to where Parker would want us to be

I actually posted immediately following the Leeds game that 1-0 to the Burnley is a score line that fans should get used to. Grab a goal and see out the rest of the match.
Tonight’s game should be a cracker with WBA scoring just twice in their last six matches which included three score lines of 0-0.

[hoosier-daddy]

I actually posted immediately following the Leeds game that 1-0 to the Burnley is a score line that fans should get used to. Grab a goal and see out the rest of the match.
Tonight’s game should be a cracker with WBA scoring just twice in their last six matches which included three score lines of 0-0.

3-3 it is then.

[kentonclaret]

3-3 it is then.

William Hill odds 80/1

[Elizabeth]

The reality is we have scored 49 goals with 10 games still to go. This is only 2 less than Sheff Utd. What is the perspective now?

[Woodleyclaret]

7 more wins gets us 95 points and promoted in top 2.

[ClaretAndJew]

7 more wins gets us 95 points and promoted in top 2.

What if Sheffield United and Leeds also get 7 more wins?

[Newcastleclaret93]

What if Sheffield United and Leeds also get 7 more wins?

Looking at sheffields fixtures I genuinely think there’s only two games where they might not win.

Coventry and Burnley. I suspect they will win the rest

[taio]

Looking at sheffields fixtures I genuinely think there’s only two games where they might not win.

Coventry and Burnley. I suspect they will win the rest

I remember when you said Sheff Utd were running away with the league...in September

[Newcastleclaret93]

I remember when you said Sheff Utd were running away with the league...in September

Think you’re mistaken?

Yep just checked all my posts from September. Never said that. Il await an apology

[taio]

Think you’re mistaken?

Yep just checked all my posts from September. Never said that. Il await an apology

I'm referring to September 2022 when you and some other tit were saying it. Point being, a team doesn't run away with the league in September.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I'm referring to September 2022 when you and some other tit were saying it. Point being, a team doesn't run away with the league un September.

So not related to this season at all then

Well done your post has nothing to do with the topic

[morninbob]

What if Sheffield United and Leeds also get 7 more wins?

I think it comes down to Burnley v Sheffield utd on Easter Monday, winner takes all.

[taio]

So not related to this season at all then

There's only two games where they might not win.

Meaningless twaddle.

Clown.