Sam Morsy

[morninbob]

Ipswich captain refused to wear the rainbow armband citing his islamic faith.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... ow-armband

[fatboy47]

Should be a two-pager.

[bobinho]

This should be good… now, where’s the popcorn?

[Lip]

Its his choice ,good for him.

[Herts Clarets]

But seemingly quite happy to wear a shirt with the logo of a gambling firm on the front, which is also against his Islamic faith...

[TheFamilyCat]

Marc Guehi:

Screenshot_20241203_154933_Samsung Internet.jpg (213.21 KiB) Viewed 6432 times

[Vegas Claret]

There are reasons there are rules, he is paid to work in a place where those rules exist. It's not even a debate, the same for the Palace captain. Abide by the rules or leave.

[morninbob]

Marc Guehi:


Screenshot_20241203_154933_Samsung Internet.jpg

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... jzrze0479o

[burnmark]

But seemingly quite happy to wear a shirt with the logo of a gambling firm on the front, which is also against his Islamic faith...

Gambling firm? Isn’t the sponsor Ed Sheeran’s Tour logo?

[Herts Clarets]

Boro were sponsored by Unibet and 32RED when he played for them

[Bowclaret]

About time someone came out (no pun intended) and stood up to this. His choice, just like anyone else of that persuasion.

Good lad !

[NottsClaret]

Ticks every box this for some proper internet fury.

Must be tempting to post something like "good on him, it's his choice, you shouldn't be forced to do this stuff" but first have to delete a load of s**te posted about James McClean about a month ago.

[TheFamilyCat]

I Muslim taking a stand against "virtue signalling".

This will be causing real conflict for some.

[Devils_Advocate]

Few separate angles to this one.

- First he should have every right to refuse to wear it if for whatever reason he doesnt want to or doesnt feel comfortable

- Second I find his reasoning suspect when as pointed out he is happy to go against his religion to wear a gambling sponsored shirt. I think if he is going to make the stance not to wear it (his right) he shouldn't need to hide behind his religion when there is obviously some personal belief in there as well

- Thirdly lets not conflate his right not to wear it with his right not to be criticised for his decision and his attitude to this minority group. As said he has every right not to wear it but I would hope that the majority of our society thinks his attitude towards homosexuality is unacceptable in this day and age

[Tall Paul]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... jzrze0479o

What's religious about declaring his love for Arsenal's Brazilian striker?

[Hibsclaret]

Marc Guehi:


Screenshot_20241203_154933_Samsung Internet.jpg

Bit harsh that he’s pulled up for supporting the Arsenal substitute.

[Row x]

Nobody should ever be made to wear or take part in something they don't believe in.

It's a free country allegedly

[Bow]

It shows these daft PL ideas up doesn’t it. I wish they would just scrap the rainbow laces, black armbands, poppy shirts, minutes silences, last post etc etc.

None of it has anything to do with football.

[Stalbansclaret]

Looking at the comments on social media around this bloke’s decision it’s ironic to see people who would normally heavily criticise Islam as a backward and regressive religion now lining up behind Morsy because his stance on this issue aligns with their own narrow-minded, hate-filled agenda.

As far as I can see the rainbow armband is there to offer a simple message of inclusivity ie that football is for everyone equally and has no time for hate or discrimination against LBGT minorities. If Morsy wants to stand against that message then we should all recognise it for what it is … a stance against those values. Anyone applauding his stance can also be recognised for what they are.

As for Guehi the religious message he chose to add to his armband introduces an unwelcome ambiguity as to what he thinks and believes . At least with Morsy it’s clear .

[NottsClaret]

It shows these daft PL ideas up doesn’t it. I wish they would just scrap the rainbow laces, black armbands, poppy shirts, minutes silences, last post etc etc.

None of it has anything to do with football.

Spot on.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I guess this is what happens when politics comes into football.

All of this type of stuff should be taken out of football in its entirety

[daveisaclaret]

Football is inherently political, including whether it's welcoming or unwelcoming to LGBT people.

Morsy is well within his rights not to wear it, but any religion that doesn't allow its adherents to show support for gay people deserves short shrift from anyone who believes in their rights.

[Anonymous Claret]

When are they going to learn to keep politics out of sport?

It wouldn't surprise that most people who are offended at Morsy not wearing the rainbow armband probably think that James McClean should not have the right not to wear the poppy.
Vice versa people who think Morsy should have the freedom not to wear the armband will probably be outraged that McClean doesn't wear the poppy.

Tell me I am wrong.

[forzagranata]

For over a century football did perfectly well without political or campaign symbols or slogans on kit. They were rightly banned by FIFA and the football authorities.

It was a big mistake from the FA and FIFA to move away from that policy a few years ago.

This won't be the last of these kind of conflicts - eventually the game will see sense and return to the old position of no political or campaign symbols in the game.

[CoolClaret]

Of everything happening in the world, is this really that much of a problem? The inflated outrage/fallout is absolutely insane.

I'm all for personal freedom and expression - whenever there's coercion to do something (such as this) it makes me feel uneasy. So what he doesn't want to wear it.

[CoolClaret]

Looking at the comments on social media around this bloke’s decision it’s ironic to see people who would normally heavily criticise Islam as a backward and regressive religion now lining up behind Morsy because his stance on this issue aligns with their own narrow-minded, hate-filled agenda.

As far as I can see the rainbow armband is there to offer a simple message of inclusivity ie that football is for everyone equally and has no time for hate or discrimination against LBGT minorities. If Morsy wants to stand against that message then we should all recognise it for what it is … a stance against those values. Anyone applauding his stance can also be recognised for what they are.

As for Guehi the religious message he chose to add to his armband introduces an unwelcome ambiguity as to what he thinks and believes . At least with Morsy it’s clear .

& conversely, those who will not criticise Islam/any ideology are now lining up to crucify Morsy for not wearing a rainbow-colored armband.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Seems like we need Fridays match to come round quicker than normal to overtake the UTC Woke Wars

[Andreshotboots]

When are they going to learn to keep politics out of sport?

It wouldn't surprise that most people who are offended at Morsy not wearing the rainbow armband probably think that James McClean should not have the right not to wear the poppy.
Vice versa people who think Morsy should have the freedom not to wear the armband will probably be outraged that McClean doesn't wear the poppy.

Tell me I am wrong.

Totally agree with this. As much as I don't particularly like the character that is James McLean, if I was in his shoes with his reasons given for not wearing a poppy, I'd probably have a similar opinion.

This whole taking of the knee, rainbow laces etc should be knowehere near a sports pitch.

Sportsmen and women are entertainers, not mouthpieces for politicians or governments..What next, Peter Kay taking the knee before a show, rainbow coloured stumps at the Ashes next year?

I'm a great believer in people are entitled to their own opinions as long as they're not illegal and offensive, whether you agree with them or not. There will be millions of people worldwide who don't believe with the whole rainbow laces and what it stands for, and that's their choice, so to make it a National story just because a footballer obviously doesn't is ridiculous.

Are we really turning into a nation where everybody is expected to back whatever movement or campaign some politician decides, and if you have any sort of alternative view you're some sort of disrespectful, discrimitory alien of society?

That's very very dangerous ground if that's the case...

[Anonymous Claret]

Of everything happening in the world, is this really that much of a problem? The inflated outrage/fallout is absolutely insane.

I'm all for personal freedom and expression - whenever there's coercion to do something (such as this) it makes me feel uneasy. So what he doesn't want to wear it.

Fully agree. It is none of anyone's business why Morsy chooses not to wear the armband. The same goes for MacClean choosing not to wear the poppy. I know that MacClean recently gave an explanation as to why he didn't wear it but he should never have had to do that.

[Firthy]

His religion shouldn't even come into it. If he refuses to wear the armband then that's his decision. You can't force people to support something that they might not agree with.

[Rileybobs]

It’s his right not to wear it, and he’s not going to be forced into doing so by anyone. It appears that he has some rather unpleasant values though which is a shame.

[CoolClaret]

It’s his right not to wear it, and he’s not going to be forced into doing so by anyone. It appears that he has some rather unpleasant values though which is a shame.

Not wearing a rainbow symbol doesn't automatically indicate someone's values - people can support LGBT rights while choosing not to display symbols.

I'd personally refuse if it was mandated.

[Rileybobs]

Not wearing a rainbow symbol doesn't automatically indicate someone's values - people can support LGBT rights while choosing not to display symbols.

I'd personally refuse if it was mandated.

Football players wear countless symbols every day so I think it’s highly doubtful that he supports LGBT rights considering his stance on this. But obviously he can do what he wants, and to be honest I don’t care. It just makes me believe that he has unpleasant values, which of course he’s entitled to have.

Also, this isn’t mandated. He can choose not to wear the symbol, which he has.

[johnnyjones]

Man refusing to wear rainbow armband, his choice, respect his believes etc etc
Man refusing to wear poppy, a disgrace, he should be banned etc etc

[CoolClaret]

Football players wear countless symbols every day so I think it’s highly doubtful that he supports LGBT rights considering his stance on this. But obviously he can do what he wants, and to be honest I don’t care. It just makes me believe that he has unpleasant values, which of course he’s entitled to have.

Also, this isn’t mandated. He can choose not to wear the symbol, which he has.

In my reply to you, I meant in general, not specifically for Morsy here. I believe it gets slippy slope territory very quickly if/when people are demonised for things of this nature.

[Rileybobs]

In my reply to you, I meant in general, not specifically for Morsy here. I believe it gets slippy slope territory very quickly if/when people are demonised for things of this nature.

Yes true, and that is one of the problem with allowing these symbols/gestures in football. See also taking the knee and poppies on shirts.

[fidelcastro]

Man refusing to wear rainbow armband, his choice, respect his believes etc etc
Man refusing to wear poppy, a disgrace, he should be banned etc etc

Said no one ever.

[BigGaz]

It shows these daft PL ideas up doesn’t it. I wish they would just scrap the rainbow laces, black armbands, poppy shirts, minutes silences, last post etc etc.

None of it has anything to do with football.

Your last sentence, rearranged, is the heart of the matter

Football has everything to do with a lot of people.

There is a large amount of match going fans that still have strong (negative) opinions about homosexuality and skin colour. We're still having fans arrested at football matches for homophobic and racism, so yes, just because you may not have directly witnessed it, it is footballs problem.

As football fans, we get the short end of the straw as regards to things like bubble matches, no drinking, zero tolerance because it's easier for the police to treat groups of people like the neanderthals some of us are, which affects all of us.

They're appealing to those people to try to reflect on their prejudice and signposting places where they can get good advice and combat misconception, and it actually works on some people. For a lot of ignorant people, it won't. But that's ok, because the people that do get positively influenced make it worth the while.

I always feel there is an inbuilt, closeted homophobia or racism to people who say 'its fine, just don't ram it down my throat and don't talk to me about it' because if you are open minded enough to accept homosexuality, different cultures and skin colours and so on, it is a far far far smaller step from there to acknowledge that whilst the messaging might sometimes be a bit frequent or on the nose for your tastes, some of these people require support and you can just bury your head in your phone or talk to your mates for the 30 seconds or so they're talking about it.

It whiffs a bit.

[Rowls]

Just as refusing to "take the knee" doesn't make you a racist, refusing to endorse or sport the rainbow flag doesn't make you a homophobe.

[dougcollins]

Gambling firm? Isn’t the sponsor Ed Sheeran’s Tour logo?

Even worse.

[jedi_master]

Not read the thread so I may well be on my own in this, but that’s fine if so - it’s just my opinion. I don’t like it, personally. Of course it’s his choice and what not/freedom of expression etc but, hypothetically, if I was a member of the LGBT community and Josh Brownhill, for whatever reason, felt he didn’t want to publicly show his support for my existence as a fan of the club and be welcoming to my community, I’d be (personally) pretty sad about that - and confused.

I don’t think it’s fair or right to compare it to stuff like McClean with the Poppy and apply whataboutery with this, it’s just how I feel about this specific gesture (and I’m not someone who joins in with the outrage, generally!). It feels exclusionary.

[chekhov]

For over a century football did perfectly well without political or campaign symbols or slogans on kit. They were rightly banned by FIFA and the football authorities.

It was a big mistake from the FA and FIFA to move away from that policy a few years ago.

This won't be the last of these kind of conflicts - eventually the game will see sense and return to the old position of no political or campaign symbols in the game.

You could say that, however would you want to go back to the racism and homophobia of 50 years ago?

[Exeterclaret]

You could say that, however would you want to go back to the racism and homophobia of 50 years ago?

I suspect some on here wouldn't actually mind that much.

[Conroy92]

Your last sentence, rearranged, is the heart of the matter

Football has everything to do with a lot of people.

There is a large amount of match going fans that still have strong (negative) opinions about homosexuality and skin colour. We're still having fans arrested at football matches for homophobic and racism, so yes, just because you may not have directly witnessed it, it is footballs problem.

As football fans, we get the short end of the straw as regards to things like bubble matches, no drinking, zero tolerance because it's easier for the police to treat groups of people like the neanderthals some of us are, which affects all of us.

They're appealing to those people to try to reflect on their prejudice and signposting places where they can get good advice and combat misconception, and it actually works on some people. For a lot of ignorant people, it won't. But that's ok, because the people that do get positively influenced make it worth the while.

I always feel there is an inbuilt, closeted homophobia or racism to people who say 'its fine, just don't ram it down my throat and don't talk to me about it' because if you are open minded enough to accept homosexuality, different cultures and skin colours and so on, it is a far far far smaller step from there to acknowledge that whilst the messaging might sometimes be a bit frequent or on the nose for your tastes, some of these people require support and you can just bury your head in your phone or talk to your mates for the 30 seconds or so they're talking about it.

It whiffs a bit.

There are people all over the world still being arrested for homophobia and racism. I'm not sure it has anything to do with being a football fan. Is there a statistic somewhere that backs up a large number of match going fans have strong negative opinions on these topics? Or is that the belief most football supporters are knuckle draggers? Maybe that's part of the issue, maybe a large section of the government do believe that too and feel these sort of 'stances' are needed to educate the larger fan base.
Personally I think it's a minority of fans. And a worldwide problem. Not footballs problem. Although I agree with the sentiment that football can influence community's and help break down prejudices.

What I would say is that if you are relying on football in the modern day to teach you some decent beliefs and values then something has gone seriously wrong somewhere along the line. And I know that is probably a real reality for some kids out there. With the corruption, cheating and manipulation of the whole game in general now it's ironic they make the stand against modern issues. Maybe they should try the well run club campaigns and the sticking to the rules campaigns.

Football needs to stick to getting the values of football right first before it looks at anything else.

[Bow]

Your last sentence, rearranged, is the heart of the matter

Football has everything to do with a lot of people.

There is a large amount of match going fans that still have strong (negative) opinions about homosexuality and skin colour. We're still having fans arrested at football matches for homophobic and racism, so yes, just because you may not have directly witnessed it, it is footballs problem.

As football fans, we get the short end of the straw as regards to things like bubble matches, no drinking, zero tolerance because it's easier for the police to treat groups of people like the neanderthals some of us are, which affects all of us.

They're appealing to those people to try to reflect on their prejudice and signposting places where they can get good advice and combat misconception, and it actually works on some people. For a lot of ignorant people, it won't. But that's ok, because the people that do get positively influenced make it worth the while.

I always feel there is an inbuilt, closeted homophobia or racism to people who say 'its fine, just don't ram it down my throat and don't talk to me about it' because if you are open minded enough to accept homosexuality, different cultures and skin colours and so on, it is a far far far smaller step from there to acknowledge that whilst the messaging might sometimes be a bit frequent or on the nose for your tastes, some of these people require support and you can just bury your head in your phone or talk to your mates for the 30 seconds or so they're talking about it.

It whiffs a bit.

It’s still nothing to do with football.

Arseholes aren’t going to change their mind because of an armband.

A blanket ban on any political statement would be so much easier and make much more sense.

For some reason the FA has taken it upon itself to become the moral arbiter of all social issues.

[timshorts]

Sammy morsy has committed no offence. Guehi has, and has taken a bit of minor admonishment for it.

As far as aware, we have not been told why morsy chose not to wear the armband with any great detail, and long may it stay like that. His views could range from the Israel folau type of bigotry, using religion as an excuse, to not agreeing that former men should be beating women up at the Olympics.

I'd probably rather not know, but if it wasn't for the latter type of issues, then you would think that we ought to have reached the stage where you don't notice and don't care whether a person is gay or not any more than what colour their skin is. Give it another generation and we might be close to that. (maybe three in backward countries like the USA).

[Cleveleys_claret]

Don't really care if a player supports this LGBT thing at all. Don't get the hypocrisy though from the FA...telling players they must wear this and that armband whilst fining the likes of Guardiola for his support Catalan badge, or the prostate cancer badges players got fined for. The F.A should either have a blanket ban on all polics or allow players the right to do what they want. Personally think these agendas shouldn't be allowed at all, that way no one gets offended

[Newcastleclaret93]

Your last sentence, rearranged, is the heart of the matter

Football has everything to do with a lot of people.

There is a large amount of match going fans that still have strong (negative) opinions about homosexuality and skin colour. We're still having fans arrested at football matches for homophobic and racism, so yes, just because you may not have directly witnessed it, it is footballs problem.

As football fans, we get the short end of the straw as regards to things like bubble matches, no drinking, zero tolerance because it's easier for the police to treat groups of people like the neanderthals some of us are, which affects all of us.

They're appealing to those people to try to reflect on their prejudice and signposting places where they can get good advice and combat misconception, and it actually works on some people. For a lot of ignorant people, it won't. But that's ok, because the people that do get positively influenced make it worth the while.

I always feel there is an inbuilt, closeted homophobia or racism to people who say 'its fine, just don't ram it down my throat and don't talk to me about it' because if you are open minded enough to accept homosexuality, different cultures and skin colours and so on, it is a far far far smaller step from there to acknowledge that whilst the messaging might sometimes be a bit frequent or on the nose for your tastes, some of these people require support and you can just bury your head in your phone or talk to your mates for the 30 seconds or so they're talking about it.

It whiffs a bit.

Have you ever met anyone in real life that has changed there opinion due to these types of things in football.

I can honestly say the only time I’ve ever heard anyone talk about this type of stuff is to complain about it.

I don’t even understand how they expecting people to react to a rainbow armband? It just seems to be a policitcal box ticking exercise.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Said no one ever.

That's correct

McLean just has to deal with annual threats to him and his family, which is quite tiresome I suspect

[GodIsADeeJay81]

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Homophobic chants are still an ongoing issue at British games and around the world

Yes, I know people don't want the rainbow stuff shoved down their throats, but equally gay people don't want to attend an event and hear chants aimed at people like them

It's claimed Football is for everyone, but at times it isn't