Fan Forum Application: Successful Application - Wednesday 11th December 2024

[Goliath]

Going back to Tresor, one possibility is that he is refusing to agree that he's fit to play, therfore leaving us without a leg to stand on in terms of fining him.

[gandhisflipflop]

Why does it bother you that someone has mentioned he is the former BNP spokesman? Nobody has said that he shouldn't be allowed to attend the event or ask a question so why are you suggesting people are trying to shut him down?

If Alastair Campbell was at the event and asked a question would you have taken an issue with someone mentioning it? PS, if the answer is no, then that makes you the hypocrite.

fidelcastro
Re: Fan Forum Application: Successful Application - Wednesday 11th December 2024
Post Wed Dec 11, 2024 10:47 pm

BNP spokesman getting to ask a question!





In answer to your alistair Campbell question, i wouldn’t have an issue him asking a question nor would I feel the need to bring up his political past on a forum. It’s funny you mention him because I was just about to use him as an example.



The above post suggests that because of his BNP background, he shouldn’t get to ask a question.

[Goliath]

Why on earth has this descended into a debate about BNP and Alastair Campbell

[Rileybobs]

fidelcastro
Re: Fan Forum Application: Successful Application - Wednesday 11th December 2024
Post Wed Dec 11, 2024 10:47 pm

BNP spokesman getting to ask a question!





In answer to your alistair Campbell question, i wouldn’t have an issue him asking a question nor would I feel the need to bring up his political past on a forum. It’s funny you mention him because I was just about to use him as an example.



The above post suggests that because of his BNP background, he shouldn’t get to ask a question.

No it doesn't, that's how you're interpreting it. Nobody has suggested that he shouldn't get to ask a question.

I didn't ask if you would have an issue with Alastair Campbell asking a question, I asked if you would have an issue if someone pointed out that he asked a question - because that's all anyone has done about this BNP fella.

[fidelcastro]

Because you don’t agree with them, why should that mean they do not get to ask a question irrelevant to the topic you take issue with? Isn’t that what fascists do? Want people who don’t agree with them shutting down?

No. Given that his little rant sounded somewhat unhinged, I was pointing out his political leanings as a form of partial explanation.

I'm not the only one who has mentioned it. CT has done the same.

Sorry if it upset you though

[gandhisflipflop]

No it doesn't, that's how you're interpreting it. Nobody has suggested that he shouldn't get to ask a question.

I didn't ask if you would have an issue with Alastair Campbell asking a question, I asked if you would have an issue if someone pointed out that he asked a question - because that's all anyone has done about this BNP fella.

Go and look at the post. It is obvious from the sarcastic eye roll that he feels like he shouldn’t be asking a question.

[deanothedino]

You see it’s that type of rhetoric that get people frustrated. Because I can see hypocrisy in the posters logic that automatically makes me a ‘BNP Sympathiser’.

Him being ex bnp or not bares no relevance to the football forum evening and it’s really weird that it has even been brought up.

It does have relevance to his question though because in general the only people who are going to be worried about facial recognition in a football ground are likely to be people who have committed some sort of criminal act.

[Fretters]

Just heard that question, absolutely nothing to do with Burnley or running the club, a complete waste

It was something the fan wanted to know, so not a waste to her.

[bumba]

It does have relevance to his question though because in general the only people who are going to be worried about facial recognition in a football ground are likely to be people who have committed some sort of criminal act.

Not necessarily...what if two parents share a season ticket but you can only register one face to each season ticket? Does that mean the other then can't use it or has to go through an extra journey to the ground each time to swap the tickets over(impossible for some long distance fans)

[NewForestClaret]

It does have relevance to his question though because in general the only people who are going to be worried about facial recognition in a football ground are likely to be people who have committed some sort of criminal act.

Not so. I have committed no criminal acts nor do I have any extreme political past, but would be wholly against facial recognition being used in the ground, if it isn't already. I also do not like the QR code ticketing, it is too reminiscent of the social credit scoring systems and vaccine passports, green light = ok, red light =bad. All part of sleepwalking into the digital gulag for me.

[Hbclaret007]

A good listen and well done to AP for this forum. I understand better the position he is faced with and no one can deny his passion and desire for success.
He is a businessman, however, and he will be under pressure to deliver for banks, shareholders etc.

The premier league season was a shambles and he must take responsibility as the man at the top, even if swayed by his love affair with VK. It seemed like a complete gamble to me. We found ourselves easily promoted and he took the opportunity to bet a big chunk of money on lots of 'potential' talent from lower leagues across Europe. The potential win being he finds a couple of 30-50 million pound players, being in the biggest showroom in football. A nice return on investment, if it works. The worst that could happen being relegation, but still some good residual value on players. When relegation did happen, those values were realised, as our best players left and we have tried to salvage a squad with a number of lesser quality players.

I hope that this squad may be good enough to get us back up, but we look a little off it at the moment. We would certainly struggle, if promoted, without further significant investment.

I would like to know his thoughts on where we go next and how we get there; however, it would be a longer conversation than last night afforded.

[gandhisflipflop]

It does have relevance to his question though because in general the only people who are going to be worried about facial recognition in a football ground are likely to be people who have committed some sort of criminal act.

That’s absolute BS. Many can see the wider impact this potentially has and how it can be potentially used in more sinister ways further down the line. Anyway, that’s for the facial recognition technology thread.

[NewClaret]

Agree with this and most of what you’ve said, but can we just be clear on something:

This is NOT Alan Pace’s idea or the idea of Burnley Football Club. Last night happened because it is now a REQUIREMENT for club’s to host a fans forum. Without such a requirement, I’m pretty confident that last night’s ‘managed’ forum would not have taken place; certainly not in that guise anyway. Pleased that people got something out of it though.

Hi John,

Yes, I was aware it was an EFL requirement after I think Tony posted. At first I found that quite disappointing, having given credit in my mind to the club for organising the event, but in retrospect I don’t care why it happened - just that it did.

My point is that it was a resounding success and I hope therefore the seed of the initiative may have come from the EFL but that the club take them forward, do them even if they’re not required in future and ideally do more than is required.

Alan Pace made a point that he cannot speak during a transfer window and I think every fan would understand that, but in my view he could have done one of these before it opened - set expectations around 3-5 outgoings - and then done one a few days after it closed, to de-brief. I think most fans would have been calmer if they knew the answers would be forthcoming very soon.

He also seems to want fans to support the manager and club and I think people would remain far more positive and engaged if they had updates like last night more regularly.

On your point about it being ‘managed’, I agree and disagree. I agree it was curated to tell a bit of a story, starting with his passion and connection for the club, on to strategy/goals, then transfer window, then open Q&A. But the fact they had an open Q&A meant it wasn’t entirely managed at all. I’d hope this session going so well gives rise to a more unstructured session next time.

Overall a really positive step forward for the club that should be applauded.

[jdrobbo]

I don't think this is the case at all. There is a fans advisory board already, and this was not it. This was an evening with Alan Pace and he didn't need to do it.

I was there and I thought he came across extremely passionate about Burnley as a club, a place and its people. He's also financially astutue and made it clear that what happened at the start of the season was forced on him (the leaked WhatsApp?). We are lucky to have Alan and his team running our football club.

I’ll politely agree to disagree. I’m extremely pleased that it went well and more pleased that people seemed impressed. We all want this. But last night was unequivocally, an event that WAS a requirement. See below:

IMG_9673.jpeg (499.49 KiB) Viewed 2123 times

https://thefsa.org.uk/our-work/supporte ... efl-rules/

[randomclaret2]

Why on earth has this descended into a debate about BNP and Alastair Campbell

Surprising the number of threads on here that still manage to somehow drag politics in...

[NewClaret]

It was something the fan wanted to know, so not a waste to her.

Completely agree with this.

To be honest it felt a little as though some questions were asked that Alan wanted to discuss, and that’s fine. It was a 90 minute event so plenty of time to cover a broad range of topics that matter to fans.

I wasn’t interested in the answer to that or the facial recognition systems questions but if other fans were, they were good questions.

[clarets1978]

I wasn’t interested in the answer to that or the facial recognition systems questions but if other fans were, they were good questions.

The answer was a lot shorter and wasted less time than the question did! I was sat on the same row and wondered if he was ever going to get to the point!

[Poulton-le-Claret]

The answer was a lot shorter and wasted less time than the question did! I was sat on the same row and wondered if he was ever going to get to the point!

You're doing him justice saying it was a question. I think Pace even said something like 'so what is your question?' when he finally stopped ranting

[Row x]

That’s absolute BS. Many can see the wider impact this potentially has and how it can be potentially used in more sinister ways further down the line. Anyway, that’s for the facial recognition technology thread.

It's not BS...only with people who have weird views on life

I've done nothing wrong, I've got the correct ticket, I'm not banned, take my photo as much as you want, it's not like it's not taken many times just during normal day to day life.

[Row x]

I’ll politely agree to disagree. I’m extremely pleased that it went well and more pleased that people seemed impressed. We all want this. But last night was unequivocally, an event that WAS a requirement. See below:

IMG_9673.jpeg

https://thefsa.org.uk/our-work/supporte ... efl-rules/

I think that covers the FAB....this was an extra forum, as the club would argue that the FAB contains the fans representatives, and has more than 2 meetings a year

[dushanbe]

I think that covers the FAB....this was an extra forum, as the club would argue that the FAB contains the fans representatives, and has more than 2 meetings a year

I think Row X is correct here based on those rules, I’d say they are covered by the FAB

[NewClaret]

The answer was a lot shorter and wasted less time than the question did! I was sat on the same row and wondered if he was ever going to get to the point!

Funny that Alan just asked him what the question was

[Row x]

I think Row X is correct here based on those rules, I’d say they are covered by the FAB

Very much so

[Walt]

I'm not sure i understand the Alan gets Burnley comments.

What he does need to 'get' is it's all down to what happens on the pitch. He needs to back Parker in Jan and get the PL money rolling in, or at least give him the best opportunity.

Without this he can't do anything about the crowds. They'll go down unless there's a moderately successful team. Ok, fair play he's frozen season tickets but the increases he's made are clearly already making an impact, so that isn't encouraging fans to support us. In my mind it's as simple as that.

And as for the finances he's lumbered us with, without PL money I dread to imagine how it will go. He certainly doesnt understand Burnley if he thinks that can carry on should we run out of parachute money.

He comes across as a nice bloke but some of the stuff he comes out with show no understanding of football. He doesn't even know who Eric Dier is. He's played in the Champions League though, so given it's his ambition for us to compete at that level I thought he'd have been well versed with the elite players.

Now, I'm not for a minute advocating that signing should have happened, I think he's crap.

How can someone be making crucial financial decisions not knowing whether a player is worth financing, how much? Computer says no.

[ChristheViking]

I think he does get it. What happens on the pitch is critical but what happens off the pitch directly impacts what happens on it. He gets that.

This is why he has been looking at various different income streams. He's cast the net further than Padiham and Nelson which hasn't gone down well with some fans but this is what we have to do to compete.

On the one hand you're imploring him to back Parker in Jan and spend money. In the next paragraph you're dreading how we will do without money.
I think Alan Pace can understand a balance sheet.

If he doesn't know who Eric Dier is - who cares? He made it very clear last night that he doesn't impact what's on the field - and nor should he. That's Parker's job. He trusts Parker. He has a team of people who work on transfers. Had you heard of Hannes Delcroix before we signed him?

I'm giving him credit for last night. The responses on here suggest we have a small % of fans that aren't backing him or are backing him thru gritted teeth. Fans would rather point out who called the meeting vs the fact that he was actually there and answering questions direct with the fans.

[Walt]

That's because he's set his stall out where PL income is absolutely critical. The only way to do that is buy players.

[NewClaret]

The answer was a lot shorter and wasted less time than the question did! I was sat on the same row and wondered if he was ever going to get to the point!

He definitely didn’t get to the point or ask a question I don’t think. I did manage to deduce that he’s not a fan of facial recognition being introduced at the turf though

[Goliath]

I think he does get it. What happens on the pitch is critical but what happens off the pitch directly impacts what happens on it. He gets that.

This is why he has been looking at various different income streams. He's cast the net further than Padiham and Nelson which hasn't gone down well with some fans but this is what we have to do to compete.

On the one hand you're imploring him to back Parker in Jan and spend money. In the next paragraph you're dreading how we will do without money.
I think Alan Pace can understand a balance sheet.

If he doesn't know who Eric Dier is - who cares? He made it very clear last night that he doesn't impact what's on the field - and nor should he. That's Parker's job. He trusts Parker. He has a team of people who work on transfers. Had you heard of Hannes Delcroix before we signed him?

I'm giving him credit for last night. The responses on here suggest we have a small % of fans that aren't backing him or are backing him thru gritted teeth. Fans would rather point out who called the meeting vs the fact that he was actually there and answering questions direct with the fans.

It's not about blindly backing him. This isn't a footballer that needs confidence on the pitch.
This is a businessman who we have to judge through his actions. At present I think the doubts are more than fair. Just look at the finances and the late filing of accounts on a regular basis.

[NewClaret]

Great post ChristtheViking. I wasn’t interested going to say something similar but you worded it brilliantly.

[NewClaret]

It's not about blindly backing him. This isn't a footballer that needs confidence on the pitch.
This is a businessman who we have to judge through his actions. At present I think the doubts are more than fair. Just look at the finances and the late filing of accounts on a regular basis.

I’m surprised there were no questions on finances.

Sort of the one elephant left in the room. I think there will be next time. Which is good I suppose, maybe different focuses / content each time.

[NewClaret]

I’ll politely agree to disagree. I’m extremely pleased that it went well and more pleased that people seemed impressed. We all want this. But last night was unequivocally, an event that WAS a requirement. See below:

IMG_9673.jpeg

https://thefsa.org.uk/our-work/supporte ... efl-rules/

I have to say John, if that is the definition I would think the club could easily argue that the FAB meets that criteria and not hold them at all.

[Goliath]

I’m surprised there were no questions on finances.

Sort of the one elephant left in the room. I think there will be next time. Which is good I suppose, maybe different focuses / content each time.

He would have been able to blag an answer about finances no problem. He's been here for 3 or 4 years and I've still not heard any reasonable explanation of how we could cope without parachute payments if we didn't go up

[Walt]

He didn't appear to understand the balance sheet throwing eye watering amounts around. Then we were relegated and he ended up with a mess of a window rushing to bring the money back in.

I understand his hand was forced to an extent, everyone sells upon relegation. Additionally, with the rumours of players refusing to play and kicking up a stink. It was a crazy strategy and in the short term has bitten him on the backside.

I like the fact he's going global searching for players but it's not as easy as that. Everyone else is doing the same thing.

I know he has Mooney and Williams in key roles but to flat out refuse a transfer without any knowledge of what he's saying no to, is to me baffling.

[Row x]

I have to say John, if that is the definition I would think the club could easily argue that the FAB meets that criteria and not hold them at all.

Mentioned earlier that the FAB definitely fits that criteria

[NewClaret]

Mentioned earlier that the FAB definitely fits that criteria

Yes, skimmed through the debate but saw those rules. Would definitely agree.

[jrgbfc]

I’m surprised there were no questions on finances.

Sort of the one elephant left in the room. I think there will be next time. Which is good I suppose, maybe different focuses / content each time.

Not sure there'd be much point asking the question. Pace is hardly going to say if we don't go up in 2 or 3 years we're well and truly screwed.

[NewClaret]

I know he has Mooney and Williams in key roles but to flat out refuse a transfer without any knowledge of what he's saying no to, is to me baffling.

He didn’t. Matt Williams told him “you can have Eric Diet for £[bleep]m wages” and he flat out refused to pay them. Presumably because he didn’t want to throw eye watering amounts of money you accuse him of spending on players wages. He said “well that’s not going to happen”.

Talking of which, one thing Alan has definitely done is reset the wage bill. We no longer have any players earning the £50-£60k per week that we did in that team. Top earners seem to be on half that and less according to data online - not sure that is right but the general direction is definitely a more sustainable wage bill.

If that means he has to strengthen lots on promotion but also sell lots on relegation to keep the finances in check, I’d less call it “biting him on the bum” and more call it “taking decisive action to protect the clubs finances” which is exactly as I would expect.

It’s absolutely not his job to know players by the way. It’s his job ensure that the technical committee have followed the right processes to identify a target.

[NewClaret]

Not sure there'd be much point asking the question. Pace is hardly going to say if we don't go up in 2 or 3 years we're well and truly screwed.

Number of ways it could’ve been framed, but I agree you’re unlikely to get too much out of him.

[Walt]

He didn’t. Matt Williams told him “you can have Eric Diet for £[bleep]m wages” and he flat out refused to pay them. Presumably because he didn’t want to throw eye watering amounts of money you accuse him of spending on players wages. He said “well that’s not going to happen”.

Talking of which, one thing Alan has definitely done is reset the wage bill. We no longer have any players earning the £50-£60k per week that we did in that team. Top earners seem to be on half that and less according to data online - not sure that is right but the general direction is definitely a more sustainable wage bill.

If that means he has to strengthen lots on promotion but also sell lots on relegation to keep the finances in check, I’d less call it “biting him on the bum” and more call it “taking decisive action to protect the clubs finances” which is exactly as I would expect.

It’s absolutely not his job to know players by the way. It’s his job ensure that the technical committee have followed the right processes to identify a target.

Buying and selling lots, potentially on an annual basis is no way to deliver success unless you get extremely lucky with recruitment, window after window. It's not a realistic long term and stable way forward.

Yes the wage bill is under control, for now. The 50 to 60k players were part of a team that had spent a good while in the PL. We'll have to get to those levels again should we achieve that status. It's not savvy planning just a reality of promotion and relegation.

How will this be funded. More loans on top of loans against the club with ever increasing annual servicing costs.

I admire his efforts to increase revenue streams which can aid what can be spent on the team. There has to be realism around this. We're Burnley trying to mix it with clubs with owners worth billions and worldwide appeal. We're doing it on the tick.

[Walt]

In terms of biting him on the backside. The chaotic window we've just had was also exacerbated by needing
to meet PSR. Which, if accurate, would also suggest the outlay wasn't well thought out. I'm sure ChesterPerry can clear that up, if he hasn't already done so on the money thread.

It was a gamble based on believing Kompany was the 2nd coming. More naivety allowing a manager, a novice one at that such influence. Fair enough he'd just delivered an incredible season. That season by their own admission came as a surprise. Confirmed by Bellamy on a couple of occasions, virtually saying they'd luckily and unexpectedly struck gold.

That emphasises my point about luck playing a large part in recruitment. It all aligned that time, overhauls don't work generally.

[Walt]

He wanted to know about players signing Cornet and Weghorst. If I was in his position I would certainly want to know players, especially when it comes to the actual point of signing them, or not.

Yes, the other employees can do the donkey work so to speak. If I'm in control of the ultimate yes or no, then I wouldn't be saying I don't even know who he is. After saying no.

[Walt]

The only board member that came out of MtB with any sense of understanding or realistic view was Dave Checketts, in my opinion.

[deanothedino]

Not so. I have committed no criminal acts nor do I have any extreme political past, but would be wholly against facial recognition being used in the ground, if it isn't already. I also do not like the QR code ticketing, it is too reminiscent of the social credit scoring systems and vaccine passports, green light = ok, red light =bad. All part of sleepwalking into the digital gulag for me.

Surprised you have internet to post on here living in your cave.

Not sure how a QR coded ticket is even remotely like social credit scoring or vaccine passports, it’s just like a normal ticket except doesn’t rely on the person at the turnstile having the capability to read.

[deanothedino]

Not necessarily...what if two parents share a season ticket but you can only register one face to each season ticket? Does that mean the other then can't use it or has to go through an extra journey to the ground each time to swap the tickets over(impossible for some long distance fans)

Don’t think you need to worry, based on the code scanner at the turnstiles and the kiosks for buying a pie any camera for that purpose just wouldn’t work.

[Walton]

Not so. I have committed no criminal acts nor do I have any extreme political past, but would be wholly against facial recognition being used in the ground, if it isn't already. I also do not like the QR code ticketing, it is too reminiscent of the social credit scoring systems and vaccine passports, green light = ok, red light =bad. All part of sleepwalking into the digital gulag for me.

Is that you Matt Le Tissier?

[deanothedino]

I’m surprised there were no questions on finances.

Sort of the one elephant left in the room. I think there will be next time. Which is good I suppose, maybe different focuses / content each time.

I'm kind of glad there wasn't.

Karen Fazackley was spouting off about finances when we first got relegated under ALK and she couldn't even read the accounts properly to understand how much would be repayable. That's a journalist, unless there was a finance professional in the room who had a full understanding of the club's accounts then Pace would have run rings round them. You don't get up the ranks of a company like Citi knowing nothing about finance.

[Clowbridge89]

Is there any indication facial recognition will be used at the turnstiles to link a face with a ticket? Surely it’s just on a broader scale for the purpose of identifying those who shouldn’t be there?

Just for a bit of context, Booths in Longridge has a sign on the door saying they use facial recognition technology. It’s already out there…

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I think the problem with older fans is they were used to the constant open communication from the club in the past such as Frank Teasdale’s weekly surgery on Burnley Bandstand and Barry’s big chat in Planet Pizza.

[Row x]

I've watched the YouTube recording

Amazing how many miss quotes there's been on here

I bet if you showed this recording to fans of other clubs, the response would be along the lines of... I wish our owner/chairman was this open to engaging with fans..