Social Mobility for young 'uns

[basil6345789]

Is the move to Electric Cars going to be a big handicap on young people? It's expensive enough as it is with petrol and diesel (unless their family is wealthy) but at least there are many affordable second hand cars about for them to get started with. Also, EV insurance is higher. This won't help career prospects.

[Rowls]

Obviously houses are far, far less affordable than for previous generations.

But is the same true about cars? And do we really need to buy cars to move up the social ladder?

[Newcastleclaret93]

Yes it will definitely hinder the younger generation, as will Net zero as a whole.

[fatboy47]

Don't know they're born.

[Billyblah]

It's interesting comparing my Lancashire lifestyle with that of my adult children. Both live in cities....London and Birmingham where lack of land/ on street parking and also congestion charges come not play.
Neither have a car. They have access to a plethora of cheap public transport that actually turns up. Having a car would involve finding somewhere to park it and then move around the respective city at a snail's pace. There is no interest in either acquiring a car. It doesn't affect their social mobility.
In contrast I can understand younger people in the North finding the purchase of an EV undesirable for other reasons. Up front costs, beholden to dealerships for servicing with attached obscene costs, uncertainty 're battery lifetime, high depreciation...and all of this whilst paying a big mortgage..

[ecc]

Everything will be fine when the HS2 reaches the barren northern wastelands.

[Boss Hogg]

Many can just run their lives from behind a screen and don’t need to go anywhere.

[Leon_C]

It depends on your long-term world view, and how technology maps into this.

Car ownership, arguably, is a pointless construct. Why would we almost universally own an item, which costs tens of thousands of pounds, and it then sits idle for the vast majority of the time. For many people, over the Christmas period, their car is going to sit, unused, for days at a time.

Instead, mobility-as-a-service - significantly more plausible with autonomous EVs, means we essentially tap into a more widely available network of vehicles-for-hire. It makes so much sense. Pay for what you use. A vehicle from a trusted service provider, usually with you in a few minutes. Cost and specification to suit your own preference.

For some, sure, car ownership may seem to make sense. But I don't think it's a universal truth by any stretch.

It won't be as popular with people who cling to the past rather than the future, but I believe that it's the direction of travel, pun intended.

[dougcollins]

Don't know about you but my car is hardly ever idle.

[Clovius Boofus]

It depends on your long-term world view, and how technology maps into this.

Car ownership, arguably, is a pointless construct. Why would we almost universally own an item, which costs tens of thousands of pounds, and it then sits idle for the vast majority of the time. For many people, over the Christmas period, their car is going to sit, unused, for days at a time.

I think people have a right to do as they wish with their hard-earned. Any Govt that begs to differ by deliberately making car ownership prohibitively expensive, won't be in Government for long.

[Newcastleclaret93]

It depends on your long-term world view, and how technology maps into this.

Car ownership, arguably, is a pointless construct. Why would we almost universally own an item, which costs tens of thousands of pounds, and it then sits idle for the vast majority of the time. For many people, over the Christmas period, their car is going to sit, unused, for days at a time.

Instead, mobility-as-a-service - significantly more plausible with autonomous EVs, means we essentially tap into a more widely available network of vehicles-for-hire. It makes so much sense. Pay for what you use. A vehicle from a trusted service provider, usually with you in a few minutes. Cost and specification to suit your own preference.

For some, sure, car ownership may seem to make sense. But I don't think it's a universal truth by any stretch.

It won't be as popular with people who cling to the past rather than the future, but I believe that it's the direction of travel, pun intended.

I don’t think I know a single person who’s car just sits there.

I suggest your based in a city from this point of view.

I have a polestar 2 and it’s great car but it’s an absolute hassle charging. Until the range and the cost (both of the vehicle and the price of public charging) change drastically I don’t think they will ever be mass adopted.

[aggi]

Don't know about you but my car is hardly ever idle.

Really? You're driving 24 hours a day?

On the original question, although I disagree with electric cars for a number of reasons their impact on social mobility is negligible compared to the actual factors.

[Stonehouse]

Obviously houses are far, far less affordable than for previous generations.

But is the same true about cars? And do we really need to buy cars to move up the social ladder?

Don’t let Rachel from accounts see that us older ones are a lot better off or she’ll be taxing the air that we breath .

[Stonehouse]

Obviously houses are far, far less affordable than for previous generations.

But is the same true about cars? And do we really need to buy cars to move up the social ladder?

I know a lot of my generation were in the same boat and had to use hp to by a car and back in the 70’s by the time we’d paid off the finance on the cheap runabout it had generally rusted away and was only worth scrap value and for todays generation they can by a relatively stylish hatchback stick some cheap private reg on it and it will run forever,also relatively speaking apart from the biggest outlay to buy a house things like microwaves ,tv’s and white goods are dirt cheap.

[bfcjg]

The lazy little gits will expect us boomers to carry them like we have always done

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[Stonehouse]

It depends on your long-term world view, and how technology maps into this.

Car ownership, arguably, is a pointless construct. Why would we almost universally own an item, which costs tens of thousands of pounds, and it then sits idle for the vast majority of the time. For many people, over the Christmas period, their car is going to sit, unused, for days at a time.

Instead, mobility-as-a-service - significantly more plausible with autonomous EVs, means we essentially tap into a more widely available network of vehicles-for-hire. It makes so much sense. Pay for what you use. A vehicle from a trusted service provider, usually with you in a few minutes. Cost and specification to suit your own preference.

For some, sure, car ownership may seem to make sense. But I don't think it's a universal truth by any stretch.
Definitely agree with you about car economics it’s batshit crazy we have 2 cars and between us struggle to do more than 6,000 miles a year ,our costs are probably £1000 for servicing ,£450 road tax ,£1,100 insurance ,so that’s £50 per week + £25 week fuel + £100 depreciation it would be cheaper hiring a car and chauffeur.
It won't be as popular with people who cling to the past rather than the future, but I believe that it's the direction of travel, pun intended.

[Tufty]

Will EVs be the death of the boy racer ?

I reckon not....it will be a wise entrepreneur that will invent the growling exhaust audio box beneath the bonnet....then all's that will be needed is the rear plastic spoiler. Broom, broom lives on.

[NottsClaret]

Wherever we go on holiday we always use public transport as it’s cheap and reliable in most countries. It’s a joke here, so stuck with cars for the foreseeable. Not that I’m a car person really, only had two over the last 19 years, both gone over 100k miles. Decent value tbf.

[basil6345789]

It's interesting comparing my Lancashire lifestyle with that of my adult children. Both live in cities....London and Birmingham where lack of land/ on street parking and also congestion charges come not play.
Neither have a car. They have access to a plethora of cheap public transport that actually turns up. Having a car would involve finding somewhere to park it and then move around the respective city at a snail's pace. There is no interest in either acquiring a car. It doesn't affect their social mobility.
In contrast I can understand younger people in the North finding the purchase of an EV undesirable for other reasons. Up front costs, beholden to dealerships for servicing with attached obscene costs, uncertainty 're battery lifetime, high depreciation...and all of this whilst paying a big mortgage..

A car opens up vastly more career options, That's my whole point.

[Burnley1989]

Don't know they're born.

Exactly lifes well easier now

Winds me right up, thankfully my family are intelligent enough to think that way

[Taffy on the wing]

Will EVs be the death of the boy racer ?

I reckon not....it will be a wise entrepreneur that will invent the growling exhaust audio box beneath the bonnet....then all's that will be needed is the rear plastic spoiler. Broom, broom lives on.

Already exists in LA.......total Wankers!

[Commy]

I was talking to one of the salesment at Mercedes. He said they had one that did 330 miles, until you put the air con, heating or radio on. He also said that electricity was dearer than fuel at the services as they have the monopoly (I wouldn't know if this is true). I wouldn't get there and back to my mothers and she would have a coronary if I plugged it in at her house.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I was talking to one of the salesment at Mercedes. He said they had one that did 330 miles, until you put the air con, heating or radio on. He also said that electricity was dearer than fuel at the services as they have the monopoly (I wouldn't know if this is true). I wouldn't get there and back to my mothers and she would have a coronary if I plugged it in at her house.

The mercs are all around 73 KWH. It costs roughly 70p per KWH to charge at most public chargers (although some are nearly 1£ per KWH).

So a full charge would cost you 73 x 0.7 =51.1 pound at a public charger for approx 260 miles.

[Bullabill]

I know a lot of my generation were in the same boat and had to use hp to by a car and back in the 70’s by the time we’d paid off the finance on the cheap runabout it had generally rusted away and was only worth scrap value and for todays generation they can by a relatively stylish hatchback stick some cheap private reg on it and it will run forever,also relatively speaking apart from the biggest outlay to buy a house things like microwaves ,tv’s and white goods are dirt cheap.

A lot of my generation would have used a few commas and full stops. They were pretty cheap back then.

[BigGaz]

The leading cause of a lack of Social mobility in this country is directly attributable to anyone who is already or close to taking their pension. Anyone in that age range of folk is absolutely shafting the economy and still they demand more.

It might not be directly *your* fault, but it certainly is a collective. A collective hard on to summon up the blitz spirit of a war they never experienced and Triple lock pensions whilst the country is on its knees. Grimmers.

[Commy]

The mercs are all around 73 KWH. It costs roughly 70p per KWH to charge at most public chargers (although some are nearly 1£ per KWH).

So a full charge would cost you 73 x 0.7 =51.1 pound at a public charger for approx 260 miles.

I will stick to my diesel. I get 4p a litre off with my Blue Light Card and they sometimes throw in a double so I fill the tank .

[Bosscat]

The mercs are all around 73 KWH. It costs roughly 70p per KWH to charge at most public chargers (although some are nearly 1£ per KWH).

So a full charge would cost you 73 x 0.7 =51.1 pound at a public charger for approx 260 miles.

I have a Citroen EC4 (wifes car) with a 50kwh battery with around 205 ml range in summer and around 145 range in winter. Charging overnight at home at 11p per kwh (never used a public charger as its only used for local journeys). Also we have a Citroen C5 Aircross petrol Hybrid PHEV that does around 26 ml in summer on electric only ...
I use it to go to TM on match days, a 40 miles plus round trip, and in hybrid mode it varies between 160 and 200 mpg (plus needs a battery recharge costing £1.20 overnight) so is very economical to run.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I have a Citroen EC4 (wifes car) with a 50kwh battery with around 205 ml range in summer and around 145 range in winter. Charging overnight at home at 11p per kwh (never used a public charger as its only used for local journeys). Also we have a Citroen C5 Aircross petrol Hybrid PHEV that does around 26 ml in summer on electric only ...
I use it to go to TM on match days, a 40 miles plus round trip, and in hybrid mode it varies between 160 and 200 mpg (plus needs a battery recharge costing £1.20 overnight) so is very economical to run.

There great for local journeys, I pretty much only use my EV for pottering around the local town.

Anything that’s longer than an hour or so i tend to use the wife’s diesel car because charging is so expensive and time consuming on the road.

I’ve had a couple of shockers before where charging has taken a couple of hours due to ques

[Bosscat]

There great for local journeys, I pretty much only use my EV for pottering around the local town.

Anything that’s longer than an hour or so i tend to use the wife’s diesel car because charging is so expensive and time consuming on the road.

I’ve had a couple of shockers before where charging has taken a couple of hours due to ques

Thats why I bought the PHEV ... I love it and next yr we are selling the Electric and going down to one car (Gov have decided to charge full road tax on EV's).

With having the home charger its viable but wouldn't if I had to charge it on public chargers...

[basil6345789]

I have a Citroen EC4 (wifes car) with a 50kwh battery with around 205 ml range in summer and around 145 range in winter. Charging overnight at home at 11p per kwh (never used a public charger as its only used for local journeys). Also we have a Citroen C5 Aircross petrol Hybrid PHEV that does around 26 ml in summer on electric only ...
I use it to go to TM on match days, a 40 miles plus round trip, and in hybrid mode it varies between 160 and 200 mpg (plus needs a battery recharge costing £1.20 overnight) so is very economical to run.

It won't be when Rachel From Complaints gets on the case

[dsr]

It depends on your long-term world view, and how technology maps into this.

Car ownership, arguably, is a pointless construct. Why would we almost universally own an item, which costs tens of thousands of pounds, and it then sits idle for the vast majority of the time. For many people, over the Christmas period, their car is going to sit, unused, for days at a time.

Instead, mobility-as-a-service - significantly more plausible with autonomous EVs, means we essentially tap into a more widely available network of vehicles-for-hire. It makes so much sense. Pay for what you use. A vehicle from a trusted service provider, usually with you in a few minutes. Cost and specification to suit your own preference.

For some, sure, car ownership may seem to make sense. But I don't think it's a universal truth by any stretch.

It won't be as popular with people who cling to the past rather than the future, but I believe that it's the direction of travel, pun intended.

You can tell how popular the idea is by looking at older people, who don't drive very far at all - purely local trips, perhaps 2,000 miles per year or less - who ditch their car and travel by taxi. It's virtually none, as long as they can still drive. Cars are so much more convenient. People who can afford cars, will do.

If all you want a car for is to do the job of a taxi, then a taxi (manned or otherwise) is fine. But what if you want to keep stuff in the boot? (Walking frame, children's nappies, overcoat in case it turns wet.) What if you want to go to two different places and don't want the inconvenience of carting your stuff around? What if "usually just a few minutes" isn't really soon enough? What, even, if you like driving?

One thing that would be interesting to watch - the traffic at Turf Moor at chucking out time. It's bad enough getting away when everyone is leaving at once. Imagine the chaos if half the cars were arriving to collect their passengers at the same time as the quicker-off-the-mark half were leaving.

PS - none of my cars have ever cost tens of thousands of pounds. Only one even touched five thousand.

[Damo]

The leading cause of a lack of Social mobility in this country is directly attributable to anyone who is already or close to taking their pension. Anyone in that age range of folk is absolutely shafting the economy and still they demand more.

It might not be directly *your* fault, but it certainly is a collective. A collective hard on to summon up the blitz spirit of a war they never experienced and Triple lock pensions whilst the country is on its knees. Grimmers.

Calm down Kier

[Dyched]

EVs will be a distant memory in a decade or 2 time. Don’t worry.

[Quicknick]

It's interesting comparing my Lancashire lifestyle with that of my adult children. Both live in cities....London and Birmingham where lack of land/ on street parking and also congestion charges come not play.
Neither have a car. They have access to a plethora of cheap public transport that actually turns up. Having a car would involve finding somewhere to park it and then move around the respective city at a snail's pace. There is no interest in either acquiring a car. It doesn't affect their social mobility.
In contrast I can understand younger people in the North finding the purchase of an EV undesirable for other reasons. Up front costs, beholden to dealerships for servicing with attached obscene costs, uncertainty 're battery lifetime, high depreciation...and all of this whilst paying a big mortgage..

Cheap public transport in London? The tube is ludicrously expensive.

[Goalkeeper]

There is no flexibility on public transport. What if you want a walk up Pendle hill from Barley with your dog? No taxi will take you and rural buses are every couple of hours at best....

[GetIntoEm]

I'll keep buying diesels while they are still available, prefer it. Mrs has a plug in hybrid however.

Will never go full electric while there remains a choice.

Used car prices have tanked currently, so there's some good bargains about

[Bosscat]

The leading cause of a lack of Social mobility in this country is directly attributable to anyone who is already or close to taking their pension. Anyone in that age range of folk is absolutely shafting the economy and still they demand more.

It might not be directly *your* fault, but it certainly is a collective. A collective hard on to summon up the blitz spirit of a war they never experienced and Triple lock pensions whilst the country is on its knees. Grimmers.

Is that you Rachel

[IanMcL]

There is no flexibility on public transport. What if you want a walk up Pendle hill from Barley with your dog? No taxi will take you and rural buses are every couple of hours at best....

Start your walk earlier...

[aggi]

Cheap public transport in London? The tube is ludicrously expensive.

£1.75 for the bus though.

[Quicknick]

£1.75 for the bus though.

Buses take forever. But it is cheap if it's for a decent distance.

[Goalkeeper]

Start your walk earlier...

That is my point Ian. Without a car, how can I get to any local or further afield walks, particularly with a dog?

[dsr]

That is my point Ian. Without a car, how can I get to any local or further afield walks, particularly with a dog?

If Leon-C's concept of driverless cars available for hire comes in, you will be able to take your dog in one and bring him back covered in mud. There will be no-one to stop you making all the mess of the interior that you like, and someone else will have to clean it up. (Which is perhaps another reason why personal car ownership may remain popular!)

[IanMcL]

That is my point Ian. Without a car, how can I get to any local or further afield walks, particularly with a dog?

Electric bike with a basket for the dog!
Probably won't be there when you return from your walk though.

[ChrisG]

My car died on the way back from holiday over the summer, and I've not replaced it. We have excellent cheap public transport though, and I've joined a car club where I can hire one for a couple of hours if I need it.

Public transport costs 49€ per month for any buses, trams, regional trains, underground etc.

On Christmas Eve I hired an ID3 EV, was very fun to drive. Cost about 13€ for 1.5 hours and 20km driving time.

Works well for us as a combination with hire car and public transport, but would have been a very different story if I was living in East Lancashire.