CJ a bigger prospect than Esteve?

jedi_master · Post by **jedi_master** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:44 am

Was having this discussion last night and wondered what peoples thoughts are. I think both are having exceptional seasons, but I wondered what people felt regards who has the greater trajectory ahead of them?

My personal opinion is that Esteve is quicker and a little taller, but CJ is much stronger on the deck, no slouch himself and still pretty dominant in the air. They compliment each other so well and almost cover each others weaker areas but considering both are 22 (well, CJ is in 3 days anyway) I am curious how far people think they could go comparatively.

123EasyasBFC · Post by **123EasyasBFC** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:55 am

I think esteve being 6ft 4 and left footed means his celling is higher.

However right now you would say Egan Riley is much more of a ball player. The pass to Anthony last night to set up the brownhill chance was fantastic

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:59 am

Esteve is taller, quicker and left footed which is a bit of a rarity for a centre half.

Egan-Riley is miles better on the ball and is probably just shading it for who is having the better season out of the two.

Pickles · Post by **Pickles** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:59 am

As said above, Estéve has the higher ceiling. Surprised we don't see him linked with clubs every other week. Far too good for the Championship.

Egan-Riley has been a brilliant bonus and made the position his. He's been very impressive.

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:03 am

CJ’s rise is even more remarkable when you consider that CB probably isn’t his favoured position. I think both have very similar ceilings, but the versatility of CJ makes him a very attractive proposition.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:12 am

I had this conversation with my dad on the way back from the game last night.

I personally think Egan Riley has the higher ceiling now. I think Esteve started higher but I don’t actually think he has progressed much this season. I think defensively he is truly excellent but on the ball I find him to be relatively poor (when I compare him to THB or Beyer).

Egan Riley is getting better every single week and his passing ability is right up there. The only thing hindering him is his height.

I think both will go on to have very successful careers in the premier league. But I am personally of the opinion that Egan Riley might be the one to go that step further.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:12 am

Nobody would have predicted CJs progress this year based on his previous 2yrs with us

VKs first signing but hardly featured then shunted up to Scotland before missing first half of last season then shipped to PSV reserves

Then when he’s back for this pre-season, he’s initially thought of as 4/5/6 choice at the start

One of the first names on the sheet now and my POTS so far

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:12 am

I wish we’d get CJ signed up on a longer contract. The thought we’ll lose him in summer is so annoying after just breaking through.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:14 am

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:12 am
Nobody would have predicted CJs progress this year based on his previous 2yrs with us

Agree. A great example of why we shouldn’t write players off who don’t make an immediate impact.

123EasyasBFC · Post by **123EasyasBFC** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:20 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:12 am
I had this conversation with my dad on the way back from the game last night.

I personally think Egan Riley has the higher ceiling now. I think Esteve started higher but I don’t actually think he has progressed much this season. I think defensively he is truly excellent but on the ball I find him to be relatively poor (when I compare him to THB or Beyer).

Egan Riley is getting better every single week and his passing ability is right up there. The only thing hindering him is his height.

I think both will go on to have very successful careers in the premier league. But I am personally of the opinion that Egan Riley might be the one to go that step further.

I said on the match thread yesterday that esteve looks like he’s lost his confidence on the ball

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:25 am

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:20 am
I said on the match thread yesterday that esteve looks like he’s lost his confidence on the ball

I agree, I thought he was really clumsy on the ball yesterday. A portion of that is probably down to tiredness in all fairness.

That is partially why I think Egan Riley has the higher ceiling now. The quality of passing of CBs in the premier league is incredibly high. I think ER is improving so rapidly he’s not far of that level.

Passing Clouds · Post by **Passing Clouds** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:29 am

Interesting. The ambition of CJs passing is far greater than ESteve. His long range passing is excellent. He’s also strong and got a good footballing brain and seems a top character.

Esteve is just so calm, composed - almost minimal in the way he plays. Just wins his battles and keeps it simple. Though he can pick a pass through the lines. There was a question last night about him/the team being tired. I can’t believe he would be. It just seems so easy.

I think he can be pushed to really great heights. Probably more than CJ … but who knows. They are both excellent.

123EasyasBFC · Post by **123EasyasBFC** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:32 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:25 am
I agree, I thought he was really clumsy on the ball yesterday. A portion of that is probably down to tiredness in all fairness.

That is partially why I think Egan Riley has the higher ceiling now. The quality of passing of CBs in the premier league is incredibly high. I think ER is improving so rapidly he’s not far of that level.

If we did manage to get promoted and Beyer gets back to being the player we know he can be, a back 3 of Egan Riley Beyer and esteve would be very good in prem.

I wouldn’t be surprised this season seeing Worrall Egan Riley and esteve in a 3 especially if we are in the play offs

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:33 am

Esteve is an excellent defender but he isn't a ball playing defender, I wouldn't want him being asked to overplay out in the premier league.
Defensively though he is brilliant and gets out of jail with his pace when needed. Although 6 foot 4 I wouldn't say he is as dominant in the air as he could be though.
Egan-Riley definitely has a better passing range but were yet to see if he can step up to the premier, it's ok improving week on week in the championship but we saw last year how big the step up is we won't really know until we go up.
These two along with Humphreys though if we go up would be a back three I'd build on next year with two wing backs.
Phenomenal when you think of their ages.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:39 am

The big thing about the Prem is physicality and Esteve has already shown he can match PL attackers with pace and strength. CJ makes up for this with excellent positioning and intelligence. He’s number 1 in the league for % of dribbles tackled (95%) which shows well he reads things. But we know the Prem is a big step up so I’m holding my horses on saying he’s got a higher ceiling than Esteve for now. If we do go up I reckon Parker may shift to a back 5 and both of them would suit the ‘wide cb’ role, with a new PL calibre CB in the middle.

Bowclaret · Post by **Bowclaret** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:53 am

I can’t believe the comments on here about Esteve. The lad is immense, never puts a foot wrong and have you seen our goals against column ?

He will go to the very Very top this lad and so will CJ.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:02 am

We’re very lucky to have such an outstanding pair of centre halves in the Championship. Egan-Riley has turned into a terrific ball playing defender, and his actual defending is top notch too. Esteve is just elite at reading the game and sweeping up with such a calmness you wonder if he takes beta blockers before every game.

I find it very hard to pick one from the other right now.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:08 am

I think it was Hibs where CJ was loaned a couple of seasons ago and they absolutely loved him there. I think they wanted to sign him permanently, but Kompany had other ideas and sent him to Holland where he seemed to "disappear", but maybe he learned a lot as he was (still is) very young. Before he signed for us City were very keen to try and keep him and their fans were waxing lyrical about him. Clearly a talent which was identified very early on and just needed nurturing and then given an opportunity, which he got this season entirely by default.

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:12 am

Bowclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:53 am
I can’t believe the comments on here about Esteve. The lad is immense, never puts a foot wrong and have you seen our goals against column ?

He will go to the very Very top this lad and so will CJ.

Agreed. Esteve is absolutely outrageously good for this level and a far better all round defender than Egan-Riley.

CJ has been excellent though and a real bonus for us this season.

Terrier · Post by **Terrier** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:18 am

When people on here were questioning the signing of cj early in his burnley career I asked them to visit the man city forum bluemoon, usually fans are a little critical of players sold but to be fair to city fans they saw the potential in this lad and were puzzled as to why we were allowed to buy him and not have him on loan.
Going to be a top player!

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:23 am

Bowclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:53 am
I can’t believe the comments on here about Esteve. The lad is immense, never puts a foot wrong and have you seen our goals against column ?

He will go to the very Very top this lad and so will CJ.

I think as a fan base we massively under estimate how good players have to be to go to the very top.

Both of these lads are truly excellent but not sure either will get to the heights you talk about.

GetIntoEm · Post by **GetIntoEm** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:25 am

I think it takes £25m to sign Esteve right now.

She · Post by **She** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:46 am

Does CJ have a buy back clause at City 20 years old and a fabulous prospect i can see him going back there he fits the bill as a City player and they certainly need a young center back or two.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:55 am

A silly discussion really, as to big one can only be achieved by dissing, even unintentionally, the other.
They are both fantastic prospects, the ceiling for both is very high, it's going to be tough to hold onto them long term, but we could make a lot of money on them.
Let's just enjoy them while we can.

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:00 pm

Esteve is like Maldini in this league imo.

Makes it look incredibly easy, very rarely gets beaten, doesn't often need to make a tackle, just superb.

Commy · Post by **Commy** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:01 pm

I think we got him on a free transfer so not sure how it worked. It's unlike City to give players away on frees.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:03 pm

Terrier wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:18 am
When people on here were questioning the signing of cj early in his burnley career I asked them to visit the man city forum bluemoon, usually fans are a little critical of players sold but to be fair to city fans they saw the potential in this lad and were puzzled as to why we were allowed to buy him and not have him on loan.
Going to be a top player!

City are making a name for selling young talent on the cheap, because they find it impossible to put them all in the shop window.
Where as Liverpool are brilliant at inflating the values of young players they know aren't good enough.

The truth is a player is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. If we can keep up our defensive record for the rest of the season then the values of all our backline , and Traff, will increase.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:21 pm

At Championship level, they are an exceptional center back pairing. But as has been pointed out, Esteve being taller and left sided makes him more desirable (Virgil Van Dyke). Esteve could play in the PL now, CJ is still developing. I hope they remain with us for a good while.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:24 pm

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:12 am
Nobody would have predicted CJs progress this year based on his previous 2yrs with us

VKs first signing but hardly featured then shunted up to Scotland before missing first half of last season then shipped to PSV reserves

Then when he’s back for this pre-season, he’s initially thought of as 4/5/6 choice at the start

One of the first names on the sheet now and my POTS so far

This...

It's quite remarkable when you think about it. Good on him for taking his opportunity and making the shirt his own!

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 1:18 pm

If they're both still with us come the 1st of February,
I'll be happy.

Our "goals against" column will not have gone unnoticed.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 1:18 pm

They're both big, big 'stand-outs' in this league.
Hopefully, they're games will continue to evolve in the Premier League, which is an increasingly bigger step up, year on year.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 5:07 pm

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:55 am
I think esteve being 6ft 4 and left footed means his celling is higher.

If he's 6 ft 4 it has to be.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 5:11 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:12 am
I had this conversation with my dad on the way back from the game last night.

I personally think Egan Riley has the higher ceiling now. I think Esteve started higher but I don’t actually think he has progressed much this season. I think defensively he is truly excellent but on the ball I find him to be relatively poor (when I compare him to THB or Beyer).

Egan Riley is getting better every single week and his passing ability is right up there. The only thing hindering him is his height.

I think both will go on to have very successful careers in the premier league. But I am personally of the opinion that Egan Riley might be the one to go that step further.

I agree with this assessment.

Top teams no longer want just defending defenders. Esteve needs to improve his passing - long passing in particular - and ball carrying ability. There have been little hints he can do this and maybe it will come.

Egan-Riley is aerially a bit weak. Height may not be an issue if he can learn to leap like the proverbial salmon! Ben Mee did OK in aerial challenges.

Im_not_Robbie_Blake · Post by **Im_not_Robbie_Blake** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 5:17 pm

Both are excellent, as we all know. Will they be able to dominate huge players from Premier League opposition in the air? There isn't a lot of evidence about each one's heading aility, and neither seem to be particularly effective when attaching corner balls, but I'm hopeful that will come in time.

We're so lucky to have them!

Cooclaret · Post by **Cooclaret** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 5:17 pm

Depends where they go next. We’re playing three in the middle, and have an exceptionally high work rate out of possession. This means that it’s hard to fairly assess their individual performances.

Together though, they’re exceptional. The ability to play a defensive line as high as these two can is a key factor to our success.

Both have attributes that will allow them to make a jump that Tarks, Mee and Keane couldn’t. Top six is a possibility for both.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see ME move to Spurs in the window.

Goliath · Post by **Goliath** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 5:55 pm

It's all guesswork but I tend to think our incredible defensive record is as much to do with team shape and the work rate of our widemen combined with our large amount of possession as much as it is solely our centre backs.

But in answer to the question I think Esteve would be streets ahead in the PL. We are protecting them both so well it's hard to see clearly but I still have real doubts about Egan Riley in terms of pace , I think he could be seriously targeted at a higher level.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 6:01 pm

Goliath wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 5:55 pm
It's all guesswork but I tend to think our incredible defensive record is as much to do with team shape and the work rate of our widemen combined with our large amount of possession as much as it is solely our centre backs.

But in answer to the question I think Esteve would be streets ahead in the PL. We are protecting them both so well it's hard to see clearly but I still have real doubts about Egan Riley in terms of pace , I think he could be seriously targeted at a higher level.

CJ would very likely beat Ben Mee in a sprint. pace isn't everything.

Goliath · Post by **Goliath** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 6:06 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 6:01 pm
CJ would very likely beat Ben Mee in a sprint. pace isn't everything.

I didn't really use the correct word in pace. I should have said agility. I think he looks really slow and clumsy on the turn and we've protected that really well. I have my doubts he'd have been so effective in a more open team or in the division above.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:09 pm

Esteve is more likely to make it against better opposition due to his pace.
Egan-Riley will struggle against good opposition but in a low block set up against good opposition he'll do decent.

To be a top defender now you need pace too.

Stacks · Post by **Stacks** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:46 pm

The EFL is so poor. This season seems even lower quality than a couple of years ago

I wouldn’t overate our CJ.

People used to rave about Ali Dakhil in the EFL and I think he was the worst centerback I have ever witnessed in the prem (yes I am aware he played rb and lb as well)

P.S. the worst striker I ever witnessed was also a Claret… Joel Mumbongo

Stonehouse · Post by **Stonehouse** » Tue Dec 31, 2024 7:55 am

A couple of great guys but weren’t we having a similar conversation a couple of seasons ago talking about Zaroury Benson and as Stacks said Al Dakhil and if anyone had seen the way the scousers demolished West Ham the other day it’s a ginormous step up trying to defend against them and if we manage to go up these lads could soon have their confidence destroyed after a few heavy defeats

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Tue Dec 31, 2024 8:25 am

Stonehouse wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 31, 2024 7:55 am
A couple of great guys but weren’t we having a similar conversation a couple of seasons ago talking about Zaroury Benson and as Stacks said Al Dakhil and if anyone had seen the way the scousers demolished West Ham the other day it’s a ginormous step up trying to defend against them and if we manage to go up these lads could soon have their confidence destroyed after a few heavy defeats

You aren’t wrong - only thing I’d say here is Esteve has already had half a season in the Prem and was probably one of our most consistent players.

watsonsclarets · Post by **watsonsclarets** » Tue Dec 31, 2024 8:35 am

One of the things many are forgetting with CJ and his agility he basically learning with a new frame. I can assure you he has bulked up massively in the last 3/4 years when I watched him for City 21’s he was half the size and when he came to Burnley at the beginning. He was basically a right back with that frame and he turned himself in a CB.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Dec 31, 2024 9:04 am

I'm not sure it needs to be a competition.

They're are an outstanding combination. They're both unusually quick for centre backs, both good on the ball and both read the game well. Egan Riley's long passing is better whilst Esteve is taller and more imposing and left footed.

I don't think either has any issues physically. Both need to mature physically and become more dominant but if we can get promoted, then we'll start with a more complete centre back foundation than we ever have before following promotion.

Must say I underestimated Egan Riley earlier in the season. I thought he was a bit hesitant to really break through this season. But he's well and truly proved that theory wrong, taken his chance brilliantly and showcased not only terrific defensive attributes but also quality on the ball.

Culmclaret · Post by **Culmclaret** » Tue Dec 31, 2024 4:05 pm

After a couple of games I thought CJ was like an old fashioned utility player (ie not particularly good at anything) but I am very happy to admit that I was completely wrong! What a player he is. Brilliant defender and can’t half pick a long pass. Esteve makes the game look so easy. Wonderful to have them both

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Tue Dec 31, 2024 6:27 pm

Both have been outstanding. I suspect that Estéve would be the immediate risk of being nicked from us in January because his pace and defending ability would not look out of place in the Premier league . But long term I reckon CJ could be playing for a top 4 Premier league side.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jan 01, 2025 11:04 am

Stacks wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:46 pm

P.S. the worst striker I ever witnessed was also a Claret… Joel Mumbongo

Based on a handful of late substitute appearances?

bodge · Post by **bodge** » Wed Jan 01, 2025 11:13 am

Joel Mumbongo is currently plying his trade at Dumbarton, that's a fair drop for him.