53 Years for the Southport Murderer

[Jakubclaret]

A death penalty would be exactly what thjs cowardly **** would want. Immediate absolution and a way to avoid living with the consequences of what he's done.

He's staring down the barrel of being bored in a 4x2sqm box for the rest of his life, plain meals, little exercise, unable to communicate with anyone other than a few designated people because he's going to be getting filled in by anyone that gets their hands on him. He won't know the love or touch of a woman, never have children, experience anything life has to offer.

One day in the future the horror he's inflicted on others will hit him like a barge pole, and for people who haven't committed disgusting atrocities that is the point where you can begin to accept what you've done, heal and begin taking steps to rehabilitate yourself. That door is literally forever closed to him. Goodness knows the despair that must make a man feel, but hopefully it's a lot more than the despair he's inflicted on those families.

**** have some of that. That's far better than a cowards way out imo. A lifetime of misery.

It's not about what he wants his feelings shouldn't even come into consideration. It's about to some people having to fund the rest of his life in prison when some would prefer him dead & the whole sorry episode done with. You are just prolonging something unnecessarily & making people when they don't want to foot the bill.

[HahaYeah]

The discussions on QT, last night, suggested that both of his parents are Christians. The training manual, was actually a study of the manual and its contents, as opposed to the actual manual and there was nothing to suggest this was based on any particular religious belief - certainly not enough for the judge to allow it to be classed as such.

...........

Sky News refer to :

al qaeda training manual.

The teenager accused of stabbing three girls to death in Southport faces a separate terror charge after police said a biological toxin and an al Qaeda training manual were found in a search of his home.

https://news.sky.com/story/southport-st ... e-13243980

BBC say :

Police found ricin and a file entitled "Military Studies in the Jihad against the Tyrants, the Al Qaeda training manual" at Rudakubana’s house in early August within days of the attack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c9q7r4wpep0t

Merseyside Police:

He was additionally charged on 29 October with production of a biological toxin, namely ricin, contrary to Section 1 of the Biological Weapons Act 1974; and possessing information, namely a pdf file entitled “Military Studies in the Jihad Against the Tyrants: The Al-Qaeda Training Manual” of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, contrary to Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000.

https://www.merseyside.police.uk/news/m ... l-charges/

The history of the parents would be interesting to know.

[fidelcastro]

Sky News refer to :

al qaeda training manual.

The teenager accused of stabbing three girls to death in Southport faces a separate terror charge after police said a biological toxin and an al Qaeda training manual were found in a search of his home.

https://news.sky.com/story/southport-st ... e-13243980

BBC say :

Police found ricin and a file entitled "Military Studies in the Jihad against the Tyrants, the Al Qaeda training manual" at Rudakubana’s house in early August within days of the attack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c9q7r4wpep0t

Merseyside Police:

He was additionally charged on 29 October with production of a biological toxin, namely ricin, contrary to Section 1 of the Biological Weapons Act 1974; and possessing information, namely a pdf file entitled “Military Studies in the Jihad Against the Tyrants: The Al-Qaeda Training Manual” of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, contrary to Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000.

https://www.merseyside.police.uk/news/m ... l-charges/

The history of the parents would be interesting to know.

I know people like you are still desperate to link this awful event to Islam, but you're barking up the wrong tree. He wasn't some sort of radical Islamist convert. He was a sick individual who was fascinated by death and murder.

As for his parents, the father of which had prevented one massacre, they were originally from Uganda, which is a Christian country.

[KRBFC]

Is that the same person the media told us was a Welsh man when the country was in uproar about immigration? Wow the media lying again? Surely not

3 times he was reported to the Counter terrorist group as a potential threat, completely ignored.

Weak sentence too, how many years will he do with good behaviour?

Spineless country with a non existent justice system where sex offences and paedophilia is simply a slap on the wrist, truly shocking.

[taio]

Is that the same person the media told us was a Welsh man when the country was in uproar about immigration? Wow the media lying again? Surely not

3 times he was reported to the Counter terrorist group as a potential threat, completely ignored.

Weak sentence too, how many years will he do with good behaviour?

Spineless country with a non existent justice system where sex offences and paedophilia is simply a slap on the wrist, truly shocking.

It's a minimum of 52 years and the judge said it's very likely he will never be released

[Big Vinny K]

Is that the same person the media told us was a Welsh man when the country was in uproar about immigration? Wow the media lying again? Surely not

3 times he was reported to the Counter terrorist group as a potential threat, completely ignored.

Weak sentence too, how many years will he do with good behaviour?

Spineless country with a non existent justice system where sex offences and paedophilia is simply a slap on the wrist, truly shocking.

Have you even read what they said about the sentence and the chances of him ever getting out ? It was impossible for the judge to give him a sentence any longer than he received. And you seriously think he is going to get out for good behaviour?

[KRBFC]

Have you even read what they said about the sentence and the chances of him ever getting out ? It was impossible for the judge to give him a sentence any longer than he received. And you seriously think he is going to get out for good behaviour?

Yes, the fact he wasn’t 18 at the time of the crime means he won’t face a full life sentence.

[DCWat]

Sky News refer to :

al qaeda training manual.

The teenager accused of stabbing three girls to death in Southport faces a separate terror charge after police said a biological toxin and an al Qaeda training manual were found in a search of his home.

https://news.sky.com/story/southport-st ... e-13243980

BBC say :

Police found ricin and a file entitled "Military Studies in the Jihad against the Tyrants, the Al Qaeda training manual" at Rudakubana’s house in early August within days of the attack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c9q7r4wpep0t

Merseyside Police:

He was additionally charged on 29 October with production of a biological toxin, namely ricin, contrary to Section 1 of the Biological Weapons Act 1974; and possessing information, namely a pdf file entitled “Military Studies in the Jihad Against the Tyrants: The Al-Qaeda Training Manual” of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, contrary to Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000.

https://www.merseyside.police.uk/news/m ... l-charges/

The history of the parents would be interesting to know.

You’ve referenced the point that I said was made on QT, last night.

This is what you are referring to and it isn’t, the training manual.

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/ ... edir_esc=y

As for him producing ricin, which I don’t think has been disputed, that doesn’t lead me to think he was a Jihadist or whatever else.

My first thought with that is how and why can anyone, let alone someone of his age, be able to find the method and access all of the ingredients (I don’t know how readily available all of its components are) to make the bloody stuff.

Not that he’s made ricin so he must be affiliated to x group and be a religious extremist.

[Big Vinny K]

Yes, the fact he wasn’t 18 at the time of the crime means he won’t face a full life sentence.

Not won’t….can’t.

[KRBFC]

Not won’t….can’t.

“What happened in Southport was an atrocity and as the judge has stated, this vile offender will likely never be released.”

From your Prime minister, certainly doesn’t rule out he will walk away a free man one day.

[Corky]

I look forward to the day when the general public stop just reading the headlines on MSM and start reading the actual facts.

[KRBFC]

A death penalty would be exactly what thjs cowardly **** would want. Immediate absolution and a way to avoid living with the consequences of what he's done.

He's staring down the barrel of being bored in a 4x2sqm box for the rest of his life, plain meals, little exercise, unable to communicate with anyone other than a few designated people because he's going to be getting filled in by anyone that gets their hands on him. He won't know the love or touch of a woman, never have children, experience anything life has to offer.

One day in the future the horror he's inflicted on others will hit him like a barge pole, and for people who haven't committed disgusting atrocities that is the point where you can begin to accept what you've done, heal and begin taking steps to rehabilitate yourself. That door is literally forever closed to him. Goodness knows the despair that must make a man feel, but hopefully it's a lot more than the despair he's inflicted on those families.

**** have some of that. That's far better than a cowards way out imo. A lifetime of misery.

You make it sound like Alcatraz, the reality is most prisoners have more luxuries inside prison. Games consoles, TV, an abundance of food, all funded by the tax payers. Then you have the contraband issue, easily accessible mobile phones and probably an assortment of drugs.

[BigGaz]

It's not about what he wants his feelings shouldn't even come into consideration. It's about to some people having to fund the rest of his life in prison when some would prefer him dead & the whole sorry episode done with. You are just prolonging something unnecessarily & making people when they don't want to foot the bill.

It is precisely about offenders and their feelings though. That's what the system is there for. The idea is that you pay your debt to society, reflect on what you've done, learn how to be a better person, apologise meaningfully and try to become a productive member of society again. History is littered with stories of incarcerated people that have gone on to lead fulfilling lives and have been lightning rods for change.

It's an emotive topic and whilst I don't agree with the death penalty I understand and respect that in severe cases such as this one then some people think that is viable solution because it is a real conundrum about what to do with people that can never let be out and are evil/have evil intentions that the penalty system has very little chance of fixing.

I personally am happy to pay towards keeping the little ****** alive so he has a lifetime of misery ahead of him, as well as sending a message to anyone else thinking about doing the similar that this is the life in store for you. For some of the public, that's not far enough and that's a fair opinion. For some of these bastards, it's not enough of a deterrent.

I believe a way forward for these types of offenders, where there's no question they've done it and theyre plainly bad people for life is to try solutions like give their living body towards the progression of medicine or performing (supervised) work that is incredibly risky or unhealthy. More misery for them, hopefully a larger deterrent for others, and their life revolves indirectly or directly saving other people's lives or health.

[DCWat]

“What happened in Southport was an atrocity and as the judge has stated, this vile offender will likely never be released.”

From your Prime minister, certainly doesn’t rule out he will walk away a free man one day.

He can’t say, “he will never be released”, he can say “will likely never be released”.

Perhaps the law will be changed to allow whole life terms, in the future, but for now, he’s received the maximum possible, legally, is my understanding.

I don’t disagree that he should never leave jail, I suspect that Starmer thinks the same.

[BigGaz]

You make it sound like Alcatraz, the reality is most prisoners have more luxuries inside prison. Games consoles, TV, an abundance of food, all funded by the tax payers. Then you have the contraband issue, easily accessible mobile phones and probably an assortment of drugs.

That's the reality for some, sure. It's also without a doubt now 'too soft' but, no, that's not the reality for most, especially high security inmates such as this one will be.

If you believe otherwise, go get yourself a shotgun and go do over your local corner shop. I'll bob in on you at Armley and see if what you've read in the Sun lines up with your lived experience.

[Claret knight]

I personally hope he see’s everyday of his 52 years , and I hope everyday is worse than the last .

[Boss Hogg]

The assumption that the death penalty is the cheaper alternative is misguided. In the US it costs more to execute a prisoner than it does to lock them up for life.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/policy/costs

The point is it shouldn’t. Endless legal processes and delays are the problem. This criminal could be got rid of in 5 minutes with little cost in reality. Early executions in this country cost very little.

[RicardoMontalban]

The point is it shouldn’t. Endless legal processes and delays are the problem. This criminal could be got rid of in 5 minutes with little cost in reality. Early executions in this country cost very little.

Bloody hell.

[fidelcastro]

Bloody hell.

Have you noticed how having the death penalty would defeat its own morality?

Some people just don't get it.

[DCWat]

The point is it shouldn’t. Endless legal processes and delays are the problem. This criminal could be got rid of in 5 minutes with little cost in reality. Early executions in this country cost very little.

“early executions in this country cost very little’

What’s the going rate, I’ve not seen this in a comparison before

[Big Vinny K]

“What happened in Southport was an atrocity and as the judge has stated, this vile offender will likely never be released.”

From your Prime minister, certainly doesn’t rule out he will walk away a free man one day.

Not really sure what your point is.
Do you think any other PM could have said or done anything different ?
You’ve read and heard the same details as everyone else - it’s pretty clear why the judge was limited in what he could do. Nobody is saying the law is correct and hopefully it will get changed as part of the enquiry findings.

[KRBFC]

That's the reality for some, sure. It's also without a doubt now 'too soft' but, no, that's not the reality for most, especially high security inmates such as this one will be.

If you believe otherwise, go get yourself a shotgun and go do over your local corner shop. I'll bob in on you at Armley and see if what you've read in the Sun lines up with your lived experience.

Thankfully I haven’t any lived experience of prison, I was just commenting on what I have seen inside some prisoner cells and I wouldn’t quite call it punishment or a deterrent to some. You’re right though, all prisoners won’t live the same.

[KRBFC]

Not really sure what your point is.
Do you think any other PM could have said or done anything different ?
You’ve read and heard the same details as everyone else - it’s pretty clear why the judge was limited in what he could do. Nobody is saying the law is correct and hopefully it will get changed as part of the enquiry findings.

Then wtf are you arguing for if we both agree

[Jakubclaret]

It is precisely about offenders and their feelings though. That's what the system is there for. The idea is that you pay your debt to society, reflect on what you've done, learn how to be a better person, apologise meaningfully and try to become a productive member of society again. History is littered with stories of incarcerated people that have gone on to lead fulfilling lives and have been lightning rods for change.

It's an emotive topic and whilst I don't agree with the death penalty I understand and respect that in severe cases such as this one then some people think that is viable solution because it is a real conundrum about what to do with people that can never let be out and are evil/have evil intentions that the penalty system has very little chance of fixing.

I personally am happy to pay towards keeping the little ****** alive so he has a lifetime of misery ahead of him, as well as sending a message to anyone else thinking about doing the similar that this is the life in store for you. For some of the public, that's not far enough and that's a fair opinion. For some of these bastards, it's not enough of a deterrent.

I believe a way forward for these types of offenders, where there's no question they've done it and theyre plainly bad people for life is to try solutions like give their living body towards the progression of medicine or performing (supervised) work that is incredibly risky or unhealthy. More misery for them, hopefully a larger deterrent for others, and their life revolves indirectly or directly saving other people's lives or health.

Agree to disagree. I prefer things over & done with. I don't see the sense in dragging things out for years costing the taxpayers money. The prisons are already stretched to breaking point resulting in lighter sentences early releases. I've said this before a point must be reached where the public should decide in terms of punishment alone for serious crimes such as this. The families concerned probably want closure not this hanging over their head.

[Bow]

Classic KRBFC, missing the point entirely, and having an argument with himself.

[DCWat]

Then wtf are you arguing for if we both agree

You were criticising the PM’s comments, when he couldn’t say anything else?

[BigGaz]

Agree to disagree. I prefer things over & done with. I don't see the sense in dragging things out for years costing the taxpayers money. The prisons are already stretched to breaking point resulting in lighter sentences early releases. I've said this before a point must be reached where the public should decide in terms of punishment alone for serious crimes such as this. The families concerned probably want closure not this hanging over their head.

Fair enough Jakub. I'm not gonna tell you you're wrong for that because your reasoning is clear and understandable even if I don't agree with it.

Would you personally be happy to look Axel Rudakubana in the eye and flip the switch so to speak?

[HahaYeah]

You’ve referenced the point that I said was made on QT, last night.

This is what you are referring to and it isn’t, the training manual.

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/ ... edir_esc=y

.................

This from your own link:

"This remarkable document, introduced in evidence by the U.S. Dept. of Justice in the trial in the Spring of 2001of the Al-Qaeda terrorists responsible for the bombing of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, provides a revealing - and thoroughly chilling - view of the "mind" of Al-Qaeda and its leadership. It is at once a manual of terror and a basic tradcraft manual. Dr. Post ... wisely lets the manual speak for itself. His insightful editorial commentary reveals that this manual of terror goes well beyond the detailed instructions for operating "in the land of the enemy". It is a guide to the planning, motivation and justification of Al-Qaeda.

Sounds like an al Qaeda training manual to me.

[DCWat]

And yet it was not deemed sufficient to class his crimes as terror related.

[Big Vinny K]

Then wtf are you arguing for if we both agree

Both agree the law should be changed. I suspect we disagree on pretty much everything else you say !

[morninbob]

They could have published his mug shot instead of in his school uniform.

[RicardoMontalban]

They could have published his mug shot instead of in his school uniform.

I wonder to what ends, and to what difference that would have made, given the outcome of the legal proceedings?

[IPAclaret]

Whilst I fully understand this will emote many different responses and individuals are entitled to their opinion can we please remember the tragic events, the little girls and their families and not turn this into another page after page of insensitive bickering.

[Jakubclaret]

Fair enough Jakub. I'm not gonna tell you you're wrong for that because your reasoning is clear and understandable even if I don't agree with it.

Would you personally be happy to look Axel Rudakubana in the eye and flip the switch so to speak?

Yes of course. You live by the sword you die with it or you get shot by somebody who doesn't.

[HahaYeah]

I know people like you are still desperate to link this awful event to Islam, but you're barking up the wrong tree. He wasn't some sort of radical Islamist convert. He was a sick individual who was fascinated by death and murder.

As for his parents, the father of which had prevented one massacre, they were originally from Uganda, which is a Christian country.

I made a reply to God is a deejay who said -' the Govt said that the perp is a Christian.'

I just pointed out that I don't think a Christian would have an al Qaeda terror manual.

I do know he's a violent psychopath who hates Britain and the British people.

As for the father who 'prevented a massacre' what a hero! Why didn't he call the police? Was it because his house was full of weapons?

[KRBFC]

You were criticising the PM’s comments, when he couldn’t say anything else?

That wasn’t the post of mine he quoted

[jrgbfc]

I made a reply to God is a deejay who said -' the Govt said that the perp is a Christian.'

I just pointed out that I don't think a Christian would have an al Qaeda terror manual.

I do know he's a violent psychopath who hates Britain and the British people.

As for the father who 'prevented a massacre' what a hero! Why didn't he call the police? Was it because his house was full of weapons?

Didn't his family contact the police a few times and nothing was done? Apologies if i'm wrong i've only had a quick glance at the full story.

[fidelcastro]

Didn't his family contact the police a few times and nothing was done? Apologies if i'm wrong i've only had a quick glance at the full story.

They did, but it's pointless arguing with someone who is desperate to link it to something else to justify their agenda.

[HahaYeah]

Didn't his family contact the police a few times and nothing was done? Apologies if i'm wrong i've only had a quick glance at the full story.

I'm not aware of that.

I'm from an age where you might think that if a man went to the police saying my son wants to massacre children something might be done about it.

You have to wonder who the police are working for because it isn't the British people.

[Big Vinny K]

That wasn’t the post of mine he quoted

Well it was.
And before that I said the same thing to you about the judge and his legal limitations over the sentence.

[Darnhill Claret]

Let's also remember the injured survivors and the trauma experienced by witnesses to the events that day. Those that will suffer from PTSD, and survivor guilt. The parents who will probably feel so isolated as many people won't know what to say to them.
The parents, family members and friends who won't know how to cope. Poor coping strategies as they start to look at life differently. The possible recriminations that might surface.

His parents, who I believe came from Rwanda.

The killer was born in Cardiff or the Cardiff area, so yes he was Welsh.
The family had lived locally for 11 years.
The killer was obsessed with killing, violent killing. His parents possibly told their son of the violence they may have witnessed in Rwanda during the violent killing time there.
Maybe he became obsessively angry towards his classmates at school.
When you are a psychopath it doesn't take that much to affect your way of thinking.

He researched everything he could about violent deaths and had an added obsession with poisons.
It would appear that on that day he decided he wanted to kill many in numbers and wanted to know how young the youngest victim was. His mind would only seem OK to him, to everyone else it would seem absolutely crackers but on assessment he was found to be fit to plead and stand trial.

I'm not sure it could be prevented, within the systems we have and I'm not sure you can create a system where something like this is preventable, when relevant agencies are always underfunded.

Remember Dunblane? 16 pupils and a teacher lost their lives that day.

The death penalty is alive and kicking in many US states.

School massacres continue to happen.

The cost of keeping someone in prison does not rise every time someone is locked up.
It is usually based on 2 prison officers annual wage, or a similar costing.

[TsarBomba]

I'm not aware of that.

I'm from an age where you might think that if a man went to the police saying my son wants to massacre children something might be done about it.

You have to wonder who the police are working for because it isn't the British people.

I think you’ll find the Police, Social Services and other agencies are completely overwhelmed.

Clearly there were failings, especially in the ‘Prevent’ programme because apparently he didn’t fit the mould of an extremist. I also understand he had been referred to the multi agency safeguarding hubs too. I imagine there are urgent reviews taking place with all these mechanisms.

Unfortunately, and this is a dark reality of the society that we live in, there are many thousands of individuals out there wishing to do us harm, for a variety of reasons. For every attack that does get through, hundreds are thwarted.

Reading into the background of this horrendous individual, I could give you 100’s of kids who I have seen over the years that have exhibited similar behaviour- carrying knives, expelled from school etc. The referral processes, and getting any sort of help and treatment required, is painfully slow because it is so overwhelmed. No doubt there’ll be many on here that can relay their own experiences.

Around 15 years ago, I had a briefing with someone from Special Branch who said there was around 10,000 individuals considered to be some sort of (terrorist) threat, to varying degrees. I have no idea if that number has gone up or down, but the numbers of officers it needs to track and monitor just one individual is mind boggling.

It’s a deeply tragic incident, and all the mitigation won’t comfort the grieving families, but to claim the Police aren’t working for the public smacks of reading too much Twitter conspiracy theories.

[boatshed bill]

Let's also remember the injured survivors and the trauma experienced by witnesses to the events that day. Those that will suffer from PTSD, and survivor guilt. The parents who will probably feel so isolated as many people won't know what to say to them.
The parents, family members and friends who won't know how to cope. Poor coping strategies as they start to look at life differently. The possible recriminations that might surface.

His parents, who I believe came from Rwanda.

The killer was born in Cardiff or the Cardiff area, so yes he was Welsh.
The family had lived locally for 11 years.
The killer was obsessed with killing, violent killing. His parents possibly told their son of the violence they may have witnessed in Rwanda during the violent killing time there.
Maybe he became obsessively angry towards his classmates at school.
When you are a psychopath it doesn't take that much to affect your way of thinking.

He researched everything he could about violent deaths and had an added obsession with poisons.
It would appear that on that day he decided he wanted to kill many in numbers and wanted to know how young the youngest victim was. His mind would only seem OK to him, to everyone else it would seem absolutely crackers but on assessment he was found to be fit to plead and stand trial.

I'm not sure it could be prevented, within the systems we have and I'm not sure you can create a system where something like this is preventable, when relevant agencies are always underfunded.

Remember Dunblane? 16 pupils and a teacher lost their lives that day.

The death penalty is alive and kicking in many US states.

School massacres continue to happen.

The cost of keeping someone in prison does not rise every time someone is locked up.
It is usually based on 2 prison officers annual wage, or a similar costing.

Excellent post.
And no point anyone doing their sums on the cost of this killer to the taxpayers. We pay into a system that protects us (if it can), don't look at the individual cases.

[GetIntoEm]

£6 for 20ft of rope. Certainly cheaper.

Or keep him till bonfire night

[Jakubclaret]

Excellent post.
And no point anyone doing their sums on the cost of this killer to the taxpayers. We pay into a system that protects us (if it can), don't look at the individual cases.

You say don't look at the individual case but all them individual cases add up. I haven't done the sums but I logically reckon if you was to calculate all the cases (murder) where arguably a different method could be implemented you'd be looking at a fair old figure.

[Vintage Claret]

I won't be around in 53 years to know for absolute certain but I'm willing to bet now he won't be behind bars for that long.

He will be dead by his own hand, someone else's, or, if there really is a God, by some act of horribly cruel devine retribution long before then

.

[Ampth7]

Given you can't currently sentence someone u18 at the time of offending to whole life orders, it's about the most the judge could do.

Quite right too

It’s times like these that make you wish we still had hung, drawn and quartered as a capital punishment! In this case, it would get my vote!!!

[CoolClaret]

I look forward to the day when the general public stop just reading the headlines on MSM and start reading the actual facts.

Sadly I don't think that's coming any time soon...

Not even just headlines now - it's more the partisan reactions from sh1thead grifters to those obnoxious headlines

[Burnley Ace]

Is that the same person the media told us was a Welsh man when the country was in uproar about immigration? Wow the media lying again? Surely not

3 times he was reported to the Counter terrorist group as a potential threat, completely ignored.

Weak sentence too, how many years will he do with good behaviour?

Spineless country with a non existent justice system where sex offences and paedophilia is simply a slap on the wrist, truly shocking.

Prevent isn’t a counter terrorist group. He will do 52 years before he is eligible to make an application to be released on parole. Your post is quite pathetic

[Burnley Ace]

And yet it was not deemed sufficient to class his crimes as terror related.

Do you know what the criteria is for it to be “terror related”. s1Terrorism Act 2000 is quite straightforward