Badge ‘rebrand’

[Row x]

that it what I took from what you said. While, all these companies he controls are of a limited liability type meaning that they can fail with little personal financial consequence, it doesn't mean that the debt and costs are not real and were not made for his (and his partners) personal gain

So are the club paying his personal debts or not?

Has he actually got any personal debts?

[Hendrickxz]

Lancashire Rain!

[claretonthecoast1882]

All these companies are controlled by the said serial criminal and even the club's own website has long acknowledged that he personally has the controlling shareholdings of these entities.

When you look at the the way the Jersey entities are structure - details I have previously shared on the takeover thread - the more partners that are brough on board the greater the stranglehold on control he has

Who is the serial criminal and what crimes have occurred ?

[Falcon]

Go the Pro Evo route, 'Lancashire Claret'

[Chester Perry]

So are the club paying his personal debts or not?

Has he actually got any personal debts?

They are his companies - all he has done is put up boundaries around his personal exposure while opening himself up to the benefits of that ownership - which includes what he has made the club do and take on.

You are arguing technical semantics rather than the spirit and overall purpose of his endeavour - so if that is how you want to judge it, the conversation has ended, for us both.

FWIW - There is a level of personal liability for the serial criminal in charge, but not one that will be of great consequence to him unless his criminality turns fraudulent and there are no sign of that occurring.

[Row x]

They are his companies - all he has done is put up boundaries around his personal exposure while opening himself up to the benefits of that ownership - which includes what he has made the club do and take on.

You are arguing technical semantics rather than the spirit and overall purpose of his endeavour - so if that is how you want to judge it, the conversation has ended, for us both.

FWIW - There is a level of personal liability for the serial criminal in charge, but not one that will be of great consequence to him unless his criminality turns fraudulent and there are no sign of that occurring.

Clear as mud

[claretonthecoast1882]

They are his companies - all he has done is put up boundaries around his personal exposure while opening himself up to the benefits of that ownership - which includes what he has made the club do and take on.

You are arguing technical semantics rather than the spirit and overall purpose of his endeavour - so if that is how you want to judge it, the conversation has ended, for us both.

FWIW - There is a level of personal liability for the serial criminal in charge, but not one that will be of great consequence to him unless his criminality turns fraudulent and there are no sign of that occurring.

Come on chester, grow a pair at least and name the criminal in public and the crimes

[GetIntoEm]

So is he a criminal or not? If he's a criminal, have you informed the police?

[Row x]

Come on chester, grow a pair at least and name the criminal in public and the crimes

He already has done previously, Alan Pace.

[claretonthecoast1882]

He already has done previously, Alan Pace.

Be nice though if he could put the name and the crimes in the same comment

[Chester Perry]

Who is the serial criminal and what crimes have occurred ?

The non and late filing of Confirmation Statements and Accounts are deemed Criminal Offences under the 2006 Companies Act at the moment they become overdue

given that we are now well into double figures of such acts occurring at entities controlled by Alan Pace he is a serial offender. That said they are crimes that come with fixed penalty fines not prison sentences so are regarded a minor/worthwhile inconvenience by those that commit them deliberately - which is what we have to assume given the numbers of financial Accounts that are overdue

The incorrect data re director controlled shareholdings in the Submission Statement on asset Match for the Burnley FC Holdings Ltd share trading facility is a breach of Finance Law and also considered a criminal offence

There is also the issue of a restated Confirmation Statement for 2023 re Burnley FC Holdings Limited that does not agree with the date of the filed notification of Velocity Capital (UK) Holdings Ltd taking the controlling Shareholding in Burnley FC Holdings Ltd or the corresponding date given in the cessation of Calder Vale Holdings Limited control of the same. It appears that Companies House have not yet made the connection on this last point,

[claretonthecoast1882]

The non and late filing of Confirmation Statements and Accounts are deemed Criminal Offences under the 2006 Companies Act at the moment they become overdue

given that we are now well into double figures of such acts occurring at entities controlled by Alan Pace he is a serial offender. That said they are crimes that come with fixed penalty fines not prison sentences so are regarded a minor/worthwhile inconvenience by those that commit them deliberately - which is what we have to assume given the numbers of financial Accounts that are overdue

The incorrect data re director controlled shareholdings in the Submission Statement on asset Match for the Burnley FC Holdings Ltd share trading facility is a breach of Finance Law and also considered a criminal offence

There is also the issue of a restated Confirmation Statement for 2023 re Burnley FC Holdings Limited that does not agree with the date of the filed notification of Velocity Capital (UK) Holdings Ltd taking the controlling Shareholding in Burnley FC Holdings Ltd or the corresponding date given in the cessation of Calder Vale Holdings Limited control of the same. It appears that Companies House have not yet made the connection on this last point,

It really is getting to you isn't it not being able to see the accounts, never has 1 person been so borderline desperate. I can sense another freedom of information being requested Is it not time to submit one ?

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Lancashire heat

Nah we'll be Burnley Blaze

[Chester Perry]

The non and late filing of Confirmation Statements and Accounts are deemed Criminal Offences under the 2006 Companies Act at the moment they become overdue

given that we are now well into double figures of such acts occurring at entities controlled by Alan Pace he is a serial offender. That said they are crimes that come with fixed penalty fines not prison sentences so are regarded a minor/worthwhile inconvenience by those that commit them deliberately - which is what we have to assume given the numbers of financial Accounts that are overdue

The incorrect data re director controlled shareholdings in the Submission Statement on asset Match for the Burnley FC Holdings Ltd share trading facility is a breach of Finance Law and also considered a criminal offence

There is also the issue of a restated Confirmation Statement for 2023 re Burnley FC Holdings Limited that does not agree with the date of the filed notification of Velocity Capital (UK) Holdings Ltd taking the controlling Shareholding in Burnley FC Holdings Ltd or the corresponding date given in the cessation of Calder Vale Holdings Limited control of the same. It appears that Companies House have not yet made the connection on this last point,

I can go on and talk about the notification of Mike Garlick and John Banazkiewicz no longer being directors of Burnley FC Holdings - according to the articles pf Burley FC Holdings Limited that would have occurred in November 2022 not June 30 2023 - and even if that was the case there was a late filing of the information at companies House - two weeks is the requirement the filing was 7 weeks late

[Chester Perry]

It really is getting to you isn't it not being able to see the accounts, never has 1 person been so borderline desperate. I can sense another freedom of information being requested Is it not time to submit one ?

as you well know the trade off for Limited Liability in business is to provide public information - this has not occurred. Pace and co are getting all the benefits without living up to their responsibility - it is just most are not aware

[bobinho]

I trust our American owners about as much as I’d trust Michael Jackson babysitting my kids, however I don’t think they are that daft to change the club badge without consulting the fans first

Be prepared to be very, very disappointed.

[The Shire Claret]

Be prepared to be very, very disappointed.

They 'must' consult fans first ... they can't change it without it

[KernowHouseClaret]

They 'must' consult fans first ... they can't change it without it

There's many ways you can 'consult' without actually acting on the results, if they want it changed bad enough, they'll change it.
For me anything like the 1969/70s roundel with yellow writing and I'll be happy

[blatherwickstattoos]

Nah we'll be Burnley Blaze

Check out the ‘American soccer guy’ on faceybook

[FeedTheArf]

Very good write up, and I might have missed it, where is the bit about Mr Paces personal debt, not his companies, or football club etc.

Calm down, Alan

[FeedTheArf]

They 'must' consult fans first ... they can't change it without it

It’ll be whizzed under any other business at the next FAB meeting

[Inchy]

They 'must' consult fans first ... they can't change it without it

Did they consult the fans when they changed it to the monochrome design?

[Roosterbooster]

Did they consult the fans when they changed it to the monochrome design?

This didn't count as a "material change" as per the rules

To make any material change requires quite a strict process, including an independent fan poll

[mikeS]

In the 1960 summer tour of the USA, the American press reporting on the tournament called us the 'Burnley Booters'.
Maybe Alan will rekindle that one.

[Pickles]

The rules were probably different then about consultation but I've always found it bizarre that the current badge is still being used when it was supposed to be used for one season and one season only.

[bobinho]

They 'must' consult fans first ... they can't change it without it

I admire your optimism.

[Roosterbooster]

I admire your optimism.

The rules are very specific. It cannot be done via stealth

[timshorts]

B makes the most sense. D or S for example would be a bad idea.

D for "dingles"?

[GetIntoEm]

It’ll be whizzed under any other business at the next FAB meeting

Christ lets hope not, we'd end up with some rainbow unicorn badge

[Burnleyareback2]

Not this I hope its ****ing awfulGiUe1KnX0AA55Qn.jpeg

It’s been there for at least 2 games now.

[Enola Gay]

If they do change the badge to a pretty dull single monogram then it might just be the push for fans to finally grab the one bit of power that's always been within their grasp.

Every summer we get complaints about the new kits (either the design or the sponsor) and every year they sprint out of the door as people grumble all the way to the cash desk.

Leave them all on the shelves for a season and it'll be the strongest message you could possibly send.

[CardyTheClaret]

The rules are very specific. It cannot be done via stealth

Not according to this quite depressing topic. **** knows what this place would have been like in the clubs darkest days. Based upon a pointless rumour there have been some quite disgusting posts.

[Row x]

If they do change the badge to a pretty dull single monogram then it might just be the push for fans to finally grab the one bit of power that's always been within their grasp.

Every summer we get complaints about the new kits (either the design or the sponsor) and every year they sprint out of the door as people grumble all the way to the cash desk.

Leave them all on the shelves for a season and it'll be the strongest message you could possibly send.

I don't think 20 people moaning about it on here would affect the thousands of shirt sales every season, they probably don't buy them anyway

[Bordeauxclaret]

Every summer we get complaints about the new kits (either the design or the sponsor) and every year they sprint out of the door as people grumble all the way to the cash desk.

Yes it’s always strange that every fan cant agree they like the same design.

[aggi]

I might have missed it but why do people think the badge is being changed? I'm assuming there's much more to it than a B appearing on the edge of the pitch.

[wilks_bfc]

We’ve seen lots of clubs going for an alternative badge on the third kits recently and I wouldn’t be opposed to us doing that, although I would prefer it to be one of our retro ones such as the BFC “circle” or “diagonal”

And even if they do announce that the B is going to be THE new badge, I doubt it’ll actually happen
Remember when Leeds said they were changing theirs?
It lasted a day before they backtracked

[deanothedino]

The rules were probably different then about consultation but I've always found it bizarre that the current badge is still being used when it was supposed to be used for one season and one season only.

Unfortunately that season coincided with our first visit to the PL. At the time those running the club thought it would be damaging to then change the badge back as intended as we’d have lost the global recognition from the PL season. So as a result they just swapped the Latin for Burnley Football Club and adopted that badge.

[The Shire Claret]

Did they consult the fans when they changed it to the monochrome design?

I would say that's quite different

[The Shire Claret]

It’ll be whizzed under any other business at the next FAB meeting

Are they that stupid ?

[The Shire Claret]

I admire your optimism.

I just think it's quite a big thing and they must know by now what the fan base is like .... it would be wise to try and cloak and dagger it

here's hoping anyway

[Pickles]

Unfortunately that season coincided with our first visit to the PL. At the time those running the club thought it would be damaging to then change the badge back as intended as we’d have lost the global recognition from the PL season. So as a result they just swapped the Latin for Burnley Football Club and adopted that badge.

I know what happened. It's ridiculous. Global recognition? We had one season and were relegated. I doubt anyone knew who we were! It should have been for one season and one season only.

[colner]

I really dont want us to adopt the B as a crest,cant see it happening anyway. As an aside,when the club announced [another] £60 membership scheme,part of the goody bag was a B baseball cap,ive yet to see anyone wearing one other than Mr Pace himself

[deanothedino]

I know what happened. It's ridiculous. Global recognition? We had one season and were relegated. I doubt anyone knew who we were! It should have been for one season and one season only.

But was still more recognition outside of the UK than we’d had before. Rightly or wrongly that’s what was decided.

[It Is What It Is]

I personally would like to 1882 somewhere

[Pickles]

But was still more recognition outside of the UK than we’d had before. Rightly or wrongly that’s what was decided.

Wrongly. And decided by the board with no consultation. Which is what could be happening again with the "B."

[deanothedino]

Wrongly. And decided by the board with no consultation. Which is what could be happening again with the "B."

I’m not disagreeing.

[Roosterbooster]

Wrongly. And decided by the board with no consultation. Which is what could be happening again with the "B."

"Wrongly" in your opinion. You may be in the majority, but not necessarily

That change happened before the rules were in place.
As stated many times on this thread, any material change to the badge now needs a rigorous process to be followed, including an independent fan poll. They cannot do it without engagement and agreement from fans. The rules are very clear

[Row x]

I don't really care about which badge is on the shirt, in fact the last time this was discussed an image was posted showing all the different badges over the years, and I'm that disinterested I couldn't tell you which badges were for which year, plus I don't remember this outcry the previous years it was changed.

[Pickles]

"Wrongly" in your opinion. You may be in the majority, but not necessarily

That change happened before the rules were in place.
As stated many times on this thread, any material change to the badge now needs a rigorous process to be followed, including an independent fan poll. They cannot do it without engagement and agreement from fans. The rules are very clear

Of course it's my opinion. It was wrong. In my opinion. Just as the current board are wrong to have changed the badge to the monochrome version this season under what is apparently a rigorous process, in my opinion.

[Roosterbooster]

Of course it's my opinion. It was wrong. In my opinion. Just as the current board are wrong to have changed the badge to the monochrome version this season under what is apparently a rigorous process, in my opinion.

As has also been said on this thread, the process to change the badge only involves "material changes". Changing to monochrome could be seen as not being material. Very subtle changes such as minor font/sizing or shades do not count. Admittedly, from full colour to monochrome is stretching this, but that would be the argument. But changing to that "B" would certainly involve the process described.