Russia/Ukraine thread

[JarrowClaret]

There's nothing to debate when someone is posting falsifiable nonsense. it's just wrong. It isn't a 'matter of opinion' like someone's opinion on how we can solve Burnley's attacking woes.

If we cannot say to people, as adults, 'Sorry but you're wrong on this, and here's why', then we may just pack it in now.

If you are in about things said that are contrary to known facts then I agree it is hard to discuss with them, for example what the US president has stated over the last few days the vast majority is incorrect and can be proved as much. I don’t know what has got you so angry but if I get wound up I either count you 10 before posting anything or come off it for a while and come back on later. there is no point arguing with someone on here you will not change there mind as they will have the same thoughts about you not being right.

[JimmyRobbo]

Just another thread where lies are told. Fact checked by reasonable and scientific organisations.

Some people are too thick to understand. Sad state of our world. Not just our thick country. Really sad.

[Jakubclaret]

I can remember when the initial thread first started by Lancasterclaret I said I wouldn't post on it & didn't due to the amount of unverified false twitter posted information which some later transpired to a load of baloney. It might of been a source of information to some but it didn't half contain a load of old claptrap. For that reason alone it needed pulling & starting again, hopefully more accurate information will start to surface.

[CoolClaret]

If you are in about things said that are contrary to known facts then I agree it is hard to discuss with them, for example what the US president has stated over the last few days the vast majority is incorrect and can be proved as much. I don’t know what has got you so angry but if I get wound up I either count you 10 before posting anything or come off it for a while and come back on later. there is no point arguing with someone on here you will not change there mind as they will have the same thoughts about you not being right.

So if some posters keep doing that (and have been for years), and if there's no point responding to their nonsense, then why aren't they banned?

[Colburn_Claret]

What if an 'opinion' is objectively wrong and is spreading damaging nonsense?

IF its objectively wrong the only thing it's spreading is the posters ignorance.
I understand the frustration, but as has already been said, we can't let ourselves get wound up because someone has a different opinion, no matter how absurd it is.

Oh for the days when you could have a good argument in a pub, and still go home as friends. Modern society is so much more intolerant, so divided, and led by politicians who encourage that divisiveness, and we allow ourselves to fall for it.
Let them blow their hot air.


I hope the thread gets reinstated soon, it is very emotive, unavoidably political, but too important an issue to ignore.

[AlargeClaret]

It had indeed turned into a silly slanging match . And was totally off topic with someone even ranting about Hamas/Jews etc . Though when the warring parties are as Toxic and divisive as the likes of Putin, Trump and Zelensky it’s a very fine line .

[CoolClaret]

IF its objectively wrong the only thing it's spreading is the posters ignorance.
I understand the frustration, but as has already been said, we can't let ourselves get wound up because someone has a different opinion, no matter how absurd it is.

Oh for the days when you could have a good argument in a pub, and still go home as friends. Modern society is so much more intolerant, so divided, and led by politicians who encourage that divisiveness, and we allow ourselves to fall for it.
Let them blow their hot air.


I hope the thread gets reinstated soon, it is very emotive, unavoidably political, but too important an issue to ignore.

Sorry, but this is precisely what I'm referring to-

It's absolutely fine to disagree on a range of topics—I do it all the time with my friends! I also agree that modern society is divisive and intolerant—far too much at times—but we cannot tolerate intolerance.

It's simply not a valid point of view if it is just completely wrong; we can't and mustn't sugarcoat that. Friends, family, randoms on the internet, whatever.

We're living in very testing times, and legitimising dangerous views will only lead us in one direction.

[Wile E Coyote]

catastrophic events unfolding daily, and some chump decides debating it is not worthy. That's the equivalent of fat doormen denying access to a nightclub.

MOD - Just to let you know, one poster who refused to stop bickering even after the closure of the main thread has been reported again. The offending post has been removed, and the poster will need to find something else to do for a week while they serve a ban.

[gandhisflipflop]

A fantastic thread sadly spoilt by conspiracy theorists and nut jobs who went off topic. Could these threads not be removed and the thread returned. Very easy to see who the protagonists are.
Especially as we are at a critical juncture in the war.

The institute for Computer Engineering in Moscow has mysteriously gone up in flames this evening. the institute specialist in developing systems critical to national security, geo information and navigating systems.

It’s those type of comments that are unhelpful. Why call them nut jobs? It’s the self proclaimed arbiters of truth that are the issue on this board. Disagree yes by all means, but don’t resort to personal insults.

[Newcastleclaret93]

It’s those type of comments that are unhelpful. Why call them nut jobs? It’s the self proclaimed arbiters of truth that are the issue on this board. Disagree yes by all means, but don’t resort to personal insults.

Totally agree

[Clovius Boofus]

This thread is like a blame-game autopsy, where people are arguing like children over what others said on a deleted thread.

[Stalbansclaret]

This is too important, interesting and vital a subject for discussion to be shut down by someone just because of a few insults they don’t like.
I never insult people on here but I would reserve the right to call out some of the pro-Trump/Russian distortions “ridiculous” because I genuinely think they are . Is that Ok !? I imagine you’d have no problem with that in a debate at the Cambridge Union. Let’s reopen the thread please.

[claretonthecoast1882]

A much more sensible approach would have been to remove the posts that shouldn't have been there and remove the poster from the board permanently.

It was a valuable thread to read now everyone is penalised for the actions of 1 or 2

[Big Vinny K]

Pretty much every political thread there has ever been on this board has been shut down eventually.
It’s inevitable and it’s the reason the moderators changed the guidelines around political threads.

Blaming the moderators is not fair. This particular thread lasted a lot longer than I ever expected and for the most part was pretty informative but it was always going to end like this especially given recent events which will always bring out the very kind of posters and views which resulted in the moderators changing the rules in the first place.

If people want to engage in that kind of debate then there are many many forums and outlets for them to do so. They can even set up their own site or forum easily enough and make up their own rules as to how it’s run.

It’s pretty simple really. If you do not like the way this board is run or moderated either live with it or find somewhere else that meets what you are looking for. It’s not difficult to open more than one tab on your browser.

[AlargeClaret]

Originally the thread reported / viewed the actual ongoing battlefield situation, and was more a “ reporting “ feel than any overt pro/anti , that’s why it worked so well . The thread appeared to bring in the anti Trump lot with their personal political views to the fore ,rather than reporting on what the bizzare ,boorish orange man is actually doing without the personal spin . Let’s hope it gets re- instated .

[Colburn_Claret]

Sorry, but this is precisely what I'm referring to-

It's absolutely fine to disagree on a range of topics—I do it all the time with my friends! I also agree that modern society is divisive and intolerant—far too much at times—but we cannot tolerate intolerance.

It's simply not a valid point of view if it is just completely wrong; we can't and mustn't sugarcoat that. Friends, family, randoms on the internet, whatever.

We're living in very testing times, and legitimising dangerous views will only lead us in one direction.

No one, not even the mods are saying don't disagree with anyone, or don't call them out if they are being ridiculous, but there are ways of doing it that don't turn into slanging matches, or if it does make sure it's the other guy. I'm sure I was as dumb struck as you at some of the rubbish a certain poster was posting, but he wasn't fooling anybody, or convincing anybody.
When asked for evidence of where his information comes from he pointed me in the direction of Robert Kennedy jr. A simple search and the very first thing you see is he's an anti vaccine conspiracy theorist. That tells you everything you or I need to know. We are never going to convince someone who follows such rubbish anything, he isn't worth a second thought.