Buy an electric car to save the world but not your money

[jojomk1]

Major changes to car tax tomorrow - here's what you need to know
Major changes to car tax are being introduced tomorrow.

The exemption for zero and low-emission vehicles from vehicle excise duty and the luxury car tax will end.

Electric vehicle (EV) owners will be charged a duty of £10 for the first year after a vehicle is registered, and then the standard rate of £195 for every subsequent year of ownership.

EVs will also be liable for the expensive car supplement.

Vehicles with a list price in excess of £40,000 have to pay £425 as an annual supplement on top of the standard car tax rate in years two to six after a vehicle is first registered.

For those already paying the tax, it is a £15 increase, but electric vehicle owners face hundreds of pounds in new charges.

iStock
iStock

EVs tend to cost more than their equivalent petrol and diesel cars, so they are more likely to be affected by the supplement.

Drivers whose electric cars are worth more than £40,000 will see an annual increase in tax of £620 (£195 plus £425) in years two to six - or £3,100 in total.

There are fears this will put some people off from going electric.

The policy was announced by then-chancellor Jeremy Hunt under the Conservative government in November 2022.

At the time, he said he wanted to "make our motoring tax system fairer".

[Jimmymaccer]

Been thinking of changing my car over the last couple of years…….petrol, 61k miles. Went into a dealership with a £15k discount on a fully electric car……..proceeded to suggest don’t buy it if you change vehicles every 3/4 years, get either a 12m old petrol, or hybrid. The big discount reflects no one buying them……I keep looking, but all the ifs buts maybe of the whole car market just makes me think sod it….,,I’ll just stick for now…..

[jojomk1]

Once they lose the revenue from VAT on petrol and diesel they are going to have to find that guaranteed income somewhere
Insurance companies are already upping rates on electric cars saying the extra weight of the battery/vehicle will cause more damage in collisions hence they will pay out more compo
Road tax now
Mileage tax no doubt in their minds as well

[mdd2]

Would be better if we had fool proof technology to tax per mile rather than have the present road tax IMO.
I wont be around BUT it wouldnt surprise me if electric cars became the betamax to VHS with hydrogen replacing petrol and diesel.

[bobinho]

Yet another way to scam as much money out of the masses as possible. A govt spokesperson will be along to tell us all it’s our fault and we probably wanted it anyway.

I honestly don’t know what the future holds, other than us all getting bent right over at every opportunity. Well, some of us will. Some of us will be fine…

[bobinho]

Would be better if we had fool proof technology to tax per mile rather than have the present road tax IMO.
I wont be around BUT it wouldnt surprise me if electric cars became the betamax to VHS with hydrogen replacing petrol and diesel.

Where’s the hydrogen coming from?

Whatever we use to create this element, it will cost us, the consumer, massively. The money in fossil fuels won’t be given up. The big boys (blackrock) will already have the plan and the means in place to continue getting richer off whatever brilliant idea they convince us all we want.

[Devils_Advocate]

Green Hydrogen can be created through wind and wave power and currently it takes about 3kw's of green electricity to make 1kw of green hydrogen. The benefit is that unlike electricity you can store hydrogen so whilst currently we pay to keep windfarms turned off when there isnt the demand for the energy IF we built the massive infrastructure to store all the green hydrogen we could generate then even at a 3 to 1 ratio by keeping of green energy sources switched on and productive it would generate far more and therefore cheaper energy than we can currently do with green eclectricity

The massive issues we face is that we are a long long way away from having the infrastructure to store, transport and run a hydrogen energy grid, the safety of it still has to be proven, there are issues around things like the smell of it we need to address and it would need one hell of a successful marketing campaign to shift peoples mindset and behaviour towards it

Lastly as already mentioned you have to fight against the oil company's and all the lobbying and money they pour in to our politics and media to drive the negative narrative against the green agenda and also to ensure the subsidies thy receive from govts still continues

[jsclaret]

OK we are lucky to be a 2 car family but instead of getting a newer main car to replace the larger diesel we are planning to upgrade the smaller car to electric and use it most of the time. Keeping the larger car long term for the extra space and for longer trips or when we both need a car. Works out cheaper.
Now looking for a 2023/2024 electric

[Jel]

Green Hydrogen can be created through wind and wave power and currently it takes about 3kw's of green electricity to make 1kw of green hydrogen. The benefit is that unlike electricity you can store hydrogen so whilst currently we pay to keep windfarms turned off when there isnt the demand for the energy IF we built the massive infrastructure to store all the green hydrogen we could generate then even at a 3 to 1 ratio by keeping of green energy sources switched on and productive it would generate far more and therefore cheaper energy than we can currently do with green eclectricity

The massive issues we face is that we are a long long way away from having the infrastructure to store, transport and run a hydrogen energy grid, the safety of it still has to be proven, there are issues around things like the smell of it we need to address and it would need one hell of a successful marketing campaign to shift peoples mindset and behaviour towards it

Lastly as already mentioned you have to fight against the oil company's and all the lobbying and money they pour in to our politics and media to drive the negative narrative against the green agenda and also to ensure the subsidies thy receive from govts still continues

One problem with Hydrogen is that the gas molecules are much smaller than natural gas. This allows more leakage from pipework. Off the subject of cars powered by Hydrogen, if we're going for a national grid supply, then all of our current network will require lining and updating.

[Bosscat]

OK we are lucky to be a 2 car family but instead of getting a newer main car to replace the larger diesel we are planning to upgrade the smaller car to electric and use it most of the time. Keeping the larger car long term for the extra space and for longer trips or when we both need a car. Works out cheaper.
Now looking for a 2023/2024 electric

Thats what we have Citroen EC4 (electric) for everyday local stuff and PHEV C5 Aircross for other stuff and when we need both cars for diff things

[Bullabill]

One problem with Hydrogen is that the gas molecules are much smaller than natural gas.

Molecules ?

[CrosspoolClarets]

Sorry I’m late with this but am in the Algarve and have just paid €75 to fill up a hire car and it reminded me.

If you own electric…….

Extend your 0% car tax today for £0 in the next hour and it gives you another 11 months before having to pay the new near £200 tax. You can do this however long is left on it.

[aggi]

Green Hydrogen can be created through wind and wave power and currently it takes about 3kw's of green electricity to make 1kw of green hydrogen. The benefit is that unlike electricity you can store hydrogen so whilst currently we pay to keep windfarms turned off when there isnt the demand for the energy IF we built the massive infrastructure to store all the green hydrogen we could generate then even at a 3 to 1 ratio by keeping of green energy sources switched on and productive it would generate far more and therefore cheaper energy than we can currently do with green eclectricity

The massive issues we face is that we are a long long way away from having the infrastructure to store, transport and run a hydrogen energy grid, the safety of it still has to be proven, there are issues around things like the smell of it we need to address and it would need one hell of a successful marketing campaign to shift peoples mindset and behaviour towards it

Lastly as already mentioned you have to fight against the oil company's and all the lobbying and money they pour in to our politics and media to drive the negative narrative against the green agenda and also to ensure the subsidies thy receive from govts still continues

They're a long, long way from producing sufficient green hydrogen at the moment though, I think it is only something like 10% of supply.

One of the plans re: storage (for electricity) is that cars can be used as batteries. Lots of people are going to have a big battery sat plugged into their supply which can be charged in slow periods and then put back into the house during peak demand. Some cars can already do this.

[Venkys4eva]

So if you have already taxed your car in January for 12 months (like me) for free. When do you have to start paying £20? Is it next January when the renewal is due?

[wilks_bfc]

So if you have already taxed your car in January for 12 months (like me) for free. When do you have to start paying £20? Is it next January when the renewal is due?

Yes but it won’t be £20

[Venkys4eva]

Yes but it won’t be £20

According to the gov website it is:

A: Up to 100g/km £20

(Mine is diesal not electric)

[dsr]

Molecules ?

Hydrogen comes as H2, two atoms making a molecule.

[gandhisflipflop]

Shocker

[CaptJohn]

My wife drives a 2016 Merc GLA and wanted to change. Merc was offering a very good deal at the back end of last year on a new Electric GLA. We booked a test drive and afterwards my wife said yes let's sort out the paperwork for a new vehicle. The salesman disappeared for a while and came back rather sheepishly to say that Merc actually didn't have a vehicle available. No worries we said we're not in a hurry, let us know when you get one in stock. To quote Diana Ross, "I'm still waiting!" Very strange but proof that there aren't cars lying around waiting to be sold, certainly not an electric Merc GLA anyway.

[Bullabill]

Hydrogen comes as H2, two atoms making a molecule.

HCl ?

[dsr]

HCl ?

Hydrochloric acid. Don't try running a car with it. You have it in your stomach to digest food with, but try putting in a petrol tank and you might have corrosion issues!

[Bullabill]

Hydrochloric acid. Don't try running a car with it. You have it in your stomach to digest food with, but try putting in a petrol tank and you might have corrosion issues!

But the hydrogen didn't 'come as H2'

[Lowbankclaret]

My wife drives a 2016 Merc GLA and wanted to change. Merc was offering a very good deal at the back end of last year on a new Electric GLA. We booked a test drive and afterwards my wife said yes let's sort out the paperwork for a new vehicle. The salesman disappeared for a while and came back rather sheepishly to say that Merc actually didn't have a vehicle available. No worries we said we're not in a hurry, let us know when you get one in stock. To quote Diana Ross, "I'm still waiting!" Very strange but proof that there aren't cars lying around waiting to be sold, certainly not an electric Merc GLA anyway.

Just did a quick search and Blackburn Merc have a choice of new GLA hybrids.
Were you looking for full electric??

[dsr]

But the hydrogen didn't 'come as H2'

It didn't come on its own either. The point about hydrogen, based on my memory of O level chemistry from 45 years ago, is that it has a spare electron (or something) so it will never hang around as a single atom. It forms either a compound or else it merges with itself to form H2. You will always find hydrogen as a molecule,, never as a single atom (except under artificial laboratory conditions, perhaps).

[Bosscat]

But the hydrogen didn't 'come as H2'

Hydrogen is an element; it exists naturally as a molecule. Each hydrogen molecule is made up of two hydrogen atoms. In hydrogen cars hydrogen reacts with oxygen in a fuel cell, making electricity to run the car. The only waste product of this process is water vapour.

Hydrogen is amazing.

It exists under standard temperature and pressure as a gas of diatomic molecules (H2) and is simultaneously the simplest, lightest and most abundant element, comprising approximately 75% of the total mass in the universe.

[CaptJohn]

Just did a quick search and Blackburn Merc have a choice of new GLA hybrids.
Were you looking for full electric??

Thanks Lowbank. It was full electric and Merc were doing a 0% finance deal, they just didn't have any cars

[dougcollins]

Hydrogen is an element; it exists naturally as a molecule. Each hydrogen molecule is made up of two hydrogen atoms. In hydrogen cars hydrogen reacts with oxygen in a fuel cell, making electricity to run the car. The only waste product of this process is water vapour.

Hydrogen is amazing.

It exists under standard temperature and pressure as a gas of diatomic molecules (H2) and is simultaneously the simplest, lightest and most abundant element, comprising approximately 75% of the total mass in the universe.

All true, but all our Hydrogen is locked in within molecules of compound elements, one of the simplest being water (H2O).

The hard part is extracting it.

Just imagine if you could fill a car tank with water then drive away.

[Bosscat]

All true, but all our Hydrogen is locked in within molecules of compound elements, one of the simplest being water (H2O).

The hard part is extracting it.

Just imagine if you could fill a car tank with water then drive away.

Thats why we have boffins and mad scientists who can solve these problems ... hopefully without planning world domination like the megolomaniac that is Elon Musk

[dsr]

Thats why we have boffins and mad scientists who can solve these problems ... hopefully without planning world domination like the megolomaniac that is Elon Musk

Unfortunately the reason the boffins invented the hydrogen bomb is that separating hydrogen from its molecule uses a lot of energy and can make a very big bang. And of course a process that involves using a lot of energy to produce an energy source has built-in inefficiencies.