Manchester United and Spurs: just how low can they sink?

[jdrobbo]

I’m aware that both clubs are having bad seasons, but having been mainly absorbed on the Championship, I’ve tended to look out for the success stories in this year’s Premier League: Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham, Brighton and of course, Nottingham Forest.

I’ve literally just studied the table and seen that with just a few games to go, United and Spurs are 14th (38pts) and 16th (37pts) respectively, with West Ham all but guaranteed safety in 17th (36pts).

I see that both clubs remain in Europe too. Are they literally putting all of their eggs in the basket of European Silverware?

Football eh?

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[jdrobbo]

West Ham’s first two games in May are at home to SPURS and away to MAN UNITED!!

[FCBurnley]

Pity the bottom 3 are so bad

[alwaysaclaret]

Early day's but this Amorim guy doesn't seem to have much idea about the Premier league so far, and doesn't seem to be learning either, gone down hill since ten haags exit and dropped further behind, seriously think they could struggle next season.
Although older and wiser and arguably more experienced, postecoglu also doesn't look cut out for the Premier league, had some bad luck with injuries but that could also be said for other's.
Both need to hit the ground running next season, or it could be a long hard season I reckon. All we can hope is that SP fairs better should we be there with them.

[Vegas Claret]

That's why I want the rules changed to 6 relegated and 6 promoted

[Roosterbooster]

Spurs play Forest at home today

Next week Man U are away at Bournemouth, and WHU are away at Brighton who are in a bit of a slump recently

It's certainly plausible that Man U could head into May being 17th

[Hibsclaret]

Ange has been bleating about injuries all season. Other clubs such as Bournemouth have had just as many injuries and yet are 12 points clear of Spurs and not as whiny about it. You have to find a way to pick up points when you have players out and he has consistently played the same way and lost game after game. When they were 2 up and coasting at half time at Brighton and lost it was due to poor game management and not injuries. There are a good few other examples of that too.

Will probably sneak the Europa to paper the cracks but he clearly ain’t good enough for me.

[warksclaret]

I am amazed Amorim has been given so much rope. Even more amazed when you hear some pundits say it will improve when he gets "his own players in" to be able to play to his system. Is not the interpretation or manager or coach, to get the best out of a squad that's supposedly valued over £980m, with an annual wage bill of £330m and and an average player salary of over £150k a week. For me in terms of job done file under Liz Truss.

[Down_Rover]

I backed Manure to get relegated at the beginning of the last two seasons at 200/1 and 150/1. I will continue backing them as it will happen in the next few years.
In the seventies there was one season where Burnley were in the first division and manure werent

[Woodleyclaret]

United are a busted flush.Shifting Rashford and
allegedly in Summer selling Garnacho, their most creative talent shows how far they have sunk under Ratcliffe and his crew

[Ampth7]

I am amazed Amorim has been given so much rope. Even more amazed when you hear some pundits say it will improve when he gets "his own players in" to be able to play to his system. Is not the interpretation or manager or coach, to get the best out of a squad that's supposedly valued over £980m, with an annual wage bill of £330m and and an average player salary of over £150k a week. For me in terms of job done file under Liz Truss.

United are in a real mess and appear to be caught in a perfect storm. On one hand their squad is in serious need of a revamp but on the other hand you have Ratcliffe banging on about the club running out of money unless cuts were/are made. It will be interesting to see how much wriggle room Amorim will be allowed going in to next season because I can’t see a sudden and dramatic change in their form without serious investment in the squad.

As for Spurs, the answer probably lies somewhere between their useless manager and penny pinching owner or a combination of both.

[Spijed]

All you are seeing with United is the same that happened to Liverpool until they won the league title under Klopp. They spent years in the doldrums but were able to get by because they are such a big club.

[ClaretTony]

I see that both clubs remain in Europe too. Are they literally putting all of their eggs in the basket of European Silverware?

It's the obvious thing to do - nothing else to play for

[ecc]

Postecoglou blames everybody but himself. Rarely looks people in the eyes. The media love(d) him because he was "different": first Australian PL manager, a "character". Decent first season but shocking second. Yes, they've had a lot of injuries but are they only club in that situation?

It would be ironic but there's a strong chance one of Spurs or MUPLC will get in the Champions League next season.

United did it in 2017. They were sixth in the PL but won the EL. This would be absurd though (were they to qualify for the CL despite finishing so low in the PL) but shows what the CL has become.

[kentonclaret]

That's why I want the rules changed to 6 relegated and 6 promoted

That idea would have resulted in 2 of the teams that the OP views as being this season’s success stories, Nottingham Forest and Brentford, playing Championship football this season.

[claret wizard]

Pity the bottom 3 are so bad

This.

United took 16 points off the bottom three. A couple of halfway competitive sides at the bottom could have taken points off them and really have put them under relegation threat.

[MrTopTier]

When Periara the new Wolves boss arrived. They were 18 points behind Utd. Yesterday’s win puts them level with them.
Similar to Tottenham in many ways season that they are sticking to the manager’s principles in the way they play.

Although interestingly Tottenham have shown recently that they can grind out results particularly in Europe. Tottenham have possibly with the exception of Son have now got their strongest team available, Utd meanwhile have struggled with injuries also, but letting Rashford go to Villa is proving to be beyond daft.

Anyways here’s hoping for Bodo Glimt v Bilbao final, heard good things about the Bodo coach, apparently he was linked strongly with us on a couple of occasions.

The other thing which has gone under the radar mainly because of Spurs and Utd is how gash West Ham are. Potter is vastly overrated. As others have said it’s a pity those at the bottom are so rubbish.

[ClaretTony]

This.

United took 16 points off the bottom three. A couple of halfway competitive sides at the bottom could have taken points off them and really have put them under relegation threat.

They took four points off us last season but were poor in both games

[ClaretTony]

Anyways here’s hoping for Bodo Glimt v Bilbao final, heard good things about the Bodo coach, apparently he was linked strongly with us on a couple of occasions.

He gets linked with just about every managerial vacancy but hasn't landed one yet

[Conroy92]

Without there youth set up producing prospects such as Rashford, Elanga, Garnacho and Amad to name a few, United would be in an even worse state than they are currently. All of the above have contributed to there minimal success over the past seasons with several gaining decent profits.

I'm not sure there ownership will keep the youth side running in the same way it has previously operated with the cuts and things they are making behind the scenes. They should be very cautious about making any changes to the set up.

[JR1882]

Amad was bought in for big money for a youngster. Garnacho was signed not produced, Atletico I think.

[Stayingup]

That's why I want the rules changed to 6 relegated and 6 promoted

Ho ho. You wont se that. The Big Club Blob will not allaow it.

[ecc]

Garnacho signed from Atletico in Oct 2020 aged 16 for a reported €465k.

Amad Diallo was signed from Atalanta in Jan 2021 aged 17 for a reported €21.5m

[Cirrus_Minor]

Real Madrid, have been sniffing around Fernandez, by far their best player. Garnacho, probably their player with best potential. will likely be off for a club in European competition. Rashford, who is no way near a bad player, will probably stay with Villa. They are all on ridiculous wages and the fans expect complete domination of football. It's crashing down on them and I love it.

[andyh]

One of them might still claim to have a great season if they win a European trophy.

[ecc]

Financially speaking, it would be a huge boost for either club. Maybe Ratcliffe could take back on some of the staff he made redundant.

[Vegas Claret]

That idea would have resulted in 2 of the teams that the OP views as being this season’s success stories, Nottingham Forest and Brentford, playing Championship football this season.

and ?

[daveisaclaret]

Amorim is going to go down as one of the worst managers in PL history. It's genuinely rotten management to come into a club with a preferred system that none of the players are up to (bar Fernandes) and try to do it anyway. Dogmatic and stupid.

Postecoglou would be long gone if they weren't in Europe, which is also a pretty poor way to run a football club.

[JR1882]

I think Amorim can come good, he will have had his pick of jobs so there’s no way he’s taken this on without assurances on getting in his players for his system. They have recruited previously without a style, formation, philosophy in place so if they can get all their ducks in a row, then maybe. They have made some good appointments off the field.

Spurs are strange, I’m amazed Ange is still there and it can only be that he is a shield for Levy so that all the criticism isn’t on him. Ange is well out of his depth, you can play with those “principles” at Celtic where no one has the quality to hurt you but he just can’t adapt.

[Spijed]

Why have Spurs been so poor over the years compared to their nearest rivals Arsenal?

They have a stadium and fan base to match so why the big difference in achievements?

[BabylonClaret]

This ******** philosophy that they paly 'the Spurs Way'

Arsenal have Lways been more pragmatic when required.

The difference is huge - Spurs ground has a load of old shitey ******** like 'to dare is to do' and all that plastered about. Arsenal simply list their long roll of honours