Keeping hold of Trafford, Esteve and Egan-riley

[Spijed]

Are Trafford and Esteve likely to leave during the summer or have we a good chance of keeping both and how likely is Egan-riley to sign a new contract?

[brexit]

From conversations yesterday with Journos
Trafford -> newcastle
Brownhill -> west ham
egan r -> leeds
Esteve -> Everton\Spurs

We are in the market for a number 1 keeper, striker + back up striker. 2 full backs and a DM
interestingly
not 100% certain about signing Edwards
Sarmentio = no
Beyer/worrall/ekdal/humphries = centre backs
amoduni to be retained
benson, redmond, barnes,tresor to be moved on.

All recruitment to be done from fringe EPL or championship players.
Apparently Vardy wants a lower league player/coach role.

[taio]

I guess of those three we'll just lose Trafford.

[agreenwood]

I can see Trafford going, but you’d imagine he’ll want some assurances that he has a fair chance of being No1 wherever he does go. Us being in the PL has made him a lot more expensive than he would have been if we’d missed out on promotion though.

I think we’ll keep Esteve for another season and get Egan-Riley signed up. The last thing Egan-Riley needs after the rapid progress he’s made this season is being sat on a bench at a “bigger club”.

[jrgbfc]

Would be a disaster if we lose all 3.

[dougcollins]

Would be a disaster if we lose all 3.

You could argue that losing any one of the unit wouldn't be that great.

[jrgbfc]

You could argue that losing any one of the unit wouldn't be that great.

No, but i'm resigned to Trafford going. Keeping both centre backs would at least give us something to build around.

[bumba]

From conversations yesterday with Journos
Trafford -> newcastle
Brownhill -> west ham
egan r -> leeds
Esteve -> Everton\Spurs

We are in the market for a number 1 keeper, striker + back up striker. 2 full backs and a DM
interestingly
not 100% certain about signing Edwards
Sarmentio = no
Beyer/worrall/ekdal/humphries = centre backs
amoduni to be retained
benson, redmond, barnes,tresor to be moved on.

All recruitment to be done from fringe EPL or championship players.
Apparently Vardy wants a lower league player/coach role.

What does Beyer, Worrall, Ekdal, Humphreys centre backs mean?? We already knew this.
We won't lose them all, why would Esteve join Spurs to be back up to Van De Ven or Everton to be Brainthwaites back up?
Trafford will only go if he gets assurances he's number 1 elsewhere, Egan-Riley I think could be offered more money but he's only guaranteed to start for us but he is replaceable.
Glad we aren't signing Sarmiento and we are quite right to have doubts about Edwards

[ksrclaret]

My feeling is that Trafford will probably go, Esteve will stay for one more season, and Egan-RIley will sign a new deal.

If we did lose 2 or 3 of those, along with Brownhill, it would indeed be a disaster because they've been the bedrock of everything we've done.

[RVclaret]

Struggle to see the logic in selling any (unless the offer is daft). We are already likely losing Brownhill, our top scorer and captain, so losing another key player from this team would be once again, shooting ourselves in the foot of what is already an uphill battle. People talk about the gap between the two leagues, well how about start by not strengthening the squads of others in the league by allowing them to take your best players? If Newcastle want Trafford they can send us some of the Saudi money that’s allowed them to sky rocket from a relegation battler to Champions League contender in 2 seasons.

[Claretitus]

I think Trafford will leave, Newcastle have made it plain they want him, but it’s got to be at a big price. Not like the fire sale of Nick Pope, who they got ridiculously cheap, and even now after 3 years, would get their fee back on him, if not more. When Trafford goes, it will have to be for our new record selling fee, especially as City have a % of the sell on.

[Quickenthetempo]

If we sold all 3 and paid the debt off. Ending any thoughts of breaching FFP, suffer for one season and then build again.
Then I would be happy with that.

[daveisaclaret]

I'm surprised there isn't any talk of CIty using the buyback clause for Trafford.

[Ric_C]

This is part of the wheeling and dealing nature of where we are as a club.

Trafford - circa 40-50 million makes sense as we could in theory get a more experienced stopper. Also his stock is very high at the moment.

Remember in the summer when everyone was apoplectic about selling Koleosho at £40 million? That looks a bad move now.

We cannot have a firesale, but the main things we need to do, is have a core squad of reliable players who will give everything. A mixture of youth and prem experience.

Unfortunately players who we cannot rely on will have to be moved on if possible : Tresor, Redmond, Benson, Foster

I would send Beyer and maybe Ramsey out on loan to get some match fitness back from really severe injuries.

I would 100% offer a coaching role to Barnes

[Spijed]

This is part of the wheeling and dealing nature of where we are as a club.

Trafford - circa 40-50 million makes sense as we could in theory get a more experienced stopper. Also his stock is very high at the moment.

Remember in the summer when everyone was apoplectic about selling Koleosho at £40 million? That looks a bad move now.

We cannot have a firesale, but the main things we need to do, is have a core squad of reliable players who will give everything. A mixture of youth and prem experience.

Unfortunately players who we cannot rely on will have to be moved on if possible : Tresor, Redmond, Benson, Foster

I would send Beyer and maybe Ramsey out on loan to get some match fitness back from really severe injuries.

I would 100% offer a coaching role to Barnes

We might be a selling club, but getting rid of our best players this summer reduces our very slim chances of survival pretty much down to zero.

[fatboy47]

From conversations yesterday with Journos
Trafford -> newcastle
Brownhill -> west ham
egan r -> leeds
Esteve -> Everton\Spurs

We are in the market for a number 1 keeper, striker + back up striker. 2 full backs and a DM
interestingly
not 100% certain about signing Edwards
Sarmentio = no
Beyer/worrall/ekdal/humphries = centre backs
amoduni to be retained
benson, redmond, barnes,tresor to be moved on.

All recruitment to be done from fringe EPL or championship players.
Apparently Vardy wants a lower league player/coach role.

I do hope nobody's taking this horsesh1t seriously.

[beddie]

I do hope nobody's taking this horsesh1t seriously.

Me too. Funnily enough I’ve been digging loads of horse sh1t into the garden this morning.

[brexit]

What does Beyer, Worrall, Ekdal, Humphreys centre backs mean?? We already knew this.
We won't lose them all, why would Esteve join Spurs to be back up to Van De Ven or Everton to be Brainthwaites back up?
Trafford will only go if he gets assurances he's number 1 elsewhere, Egan-Riley I think could be offered more money but he's only guaranteed to start for us but he is replaceable.
Glad we aren't signing Sarmiento and we are quite right to have doubts about Edwards

I think the point that was being made was that we have 4 players who can be centre backs next season, It is not an area we need to recruit to

[ksrclaret]

I think the point that was being made was that we have 4 players who can be centre backs next season, It is not an area we need to recruit to

Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn’t just make all that shite up, I think whichever “journo” told you that Burnley would be happy to enter a PL season with Beyer, Ekdal, Worrall, and Humphreys as the only options should go and find another career because they haven’t a clue.

[bumba]

I think the point that was being made was that we have 4 players who can be centre backs next season, It is not an area we need to recruit to

If those four are the centre backs we are left with then we absolutely need to recruit there, who knows how Beyer will come back I'd be expecting him sent out on loan to regain form and fitness to be honest he will need as much game time as possible.
Worrall isn't good enough to play premier league football but great around the squad.
Humphreys is a huge talent but unknown at centre back at that level.
Ekdal will be going he will want to play.

[Swizzlestick]

Brexit has a long storied history of hearing things ‘in corporate’ that turn out to be utter nonsense. I think the only things he hears are the voices in his head.

Taking it as read, I think it’s pretty clear we’ll be looking to move Ekdal on and there’s a huge question mark over when Beyer will be even close to being available. Worrall looked shaky at Championship level.

[Duffer_]

I'm surprised there isn't any talk of CIty using the buyback clause for Trafford.

Me too. Even if City don't want him, does the buy-back clause effectively cap our profit on Trafford? Presumably City have to be informed of a potential sale to a third party and, if the fee is in excess of the buy-back value, they trigger it and sell Trafford to the third party themselves, taking the excess profit? Or, are they prevented from doing this because it means Trafford would have to be registered by 3 clubs?

AI suggests City could buy and re-sell, providing they don't play him: "FIFA regulations allow for a maximum of three clubs a player can be registered with in a season, but only two of those are eligible to play official matches for."

On that basis it does appear that we will receive no more than £40m for Trafford but I appreciate the devil is in the detail on buy-back clauses.

[FCBurnley]

Our key players to keep for next season are ( in order if priority) Esteve Brownhill Flemming Egan Riley Trafford Anthony Cullen Pires Ramsay. Let’s see how that goes

[Bow]

£50m plus Pope for Trafford thanks very much

[CnBtruntru]

Will we keep hold of SP, Spurs will be sniffing.

[BigGaz]

Sell Trafford Esteve and any of the squad fillers, square off all or most of the debt. Put a squad together for the 26/27 championship tilt as that's what we're most likely to be doing anyway. The core of the first 11 would be

Humphries
Pires
CER
Worrall
Beyer
Roberts
Cullen
Anthony
Flemming
Ramsey

Would be happy to retain Laurent, Barnes for their leadership qualaties

That's at least 7 out of 11 that are going to start in two seasons time and half of a twenty five man squad that have experienced at least one promotion in their career.

Unless anything major happens and more than good enough to compete at the top end of the championship again.

[Eloise Laws]

Who do you think we might keep, reload or sell of the 8 players we have out on loan?? I guess there is a lot of ‘sorting out’ to do over the Summer….

[Woodleyclaret]

Max wanted Premier league football he's got and stays.

[martin_p]

From conversations yesterday with Journos
Trafford -> newcastle
Brownhill -> west ham
egan r -> leeds
Esteve -> Everton\Spurs

We are in the market for a number 1 keeper, striker + back up striker. 2 full backs and a DM
interestingly
not 100% certain about signing Edwards
Sarmentio = no
Beyer/worrall/ekdal/humphries = centre backs
amoduni to be retained
benson, redmond, barnes,tresor to be moved on.

All recruitment to be done from fringe EPL or championship players.
Apparently Vardy wants a lower league player/coach role.

Hasn’t Vardy explicitly stated he wants to stay in the Prem.

[Conroy92]

Getting a bit nervous about CJ. Matt williams seemed to suggest there was good news a few weeks ago. Its all gone a bit quiet.

[BigBadBarnes]

I don't understand why so many think Trafford is off to Newcastle.

They have Nick Pope, who if you remember is quite good.
Trafford would be going there to not play, which wouldnt be like him considering how hes been number 1 for several seasons.
Trafford is still a question mark in the Premier League. I would imagine newcastle would be happy to wait a year to see how he does.
We've just been promoted so he will cost more to a club who despite their wealth are restricted by PSR. Spending so much on a back up is unlikely.
If we get relegated next year (which isn't unlikely) Trafford will be available at a fraction of the cost. Why wouldn't they wait? They'll beat most of the competition for signing him regardless

[Duffer_]

Interesting to note that City did not trigger Liam Delap's buy back clause (reportedly at £20m), presumably knowing Ipswich would receive more under his release clause (reportedly at £30m). It may give us a read across on the Trafford situation.

[aggi]

Interesting to note that City did not trigger Liam Delap's buy back clause (reportedly at £20m), presumably knowing Ipswich would receive more under his release clause (reportedly at £30m). It may give us a read across on the Trafford situation.

Don't know whether it was the case with Delap but those clauses can sometimes be structured to prevent a buy back and instant resale.

[jlup1980]

I don't understand why so many think Trafford is off to Newcastle.

They have Nick Pope, who if you remember is quite good.
Trafford would be going there to not play, which wouldnt be like him considering how hes been number 1 for several seasons.
Trafford is still a question mark in the Premier League. I would imagine newcastle would be happy to wait a year to see how he does.
We've just been promoted so he will cost more to a club who despite their wealth are restricted by PSR. Spending so much on a back up is unlikely.
If we get relegated next year (which isn't unlikely) Trafford will be available at a fraction of the cost. Why wouldn't they wait? They'll beat most of the competition for signing him regardless

Newcastle will have a lot of games next season (Premier League, Champions League, FA Cup. League Cup), so they'd have plenty of opportunity to give Trafford games. Also, as good as Pope is, he has injury concerns. He's played 53 games over the last two seasons. Dubravka has played 46. This suggests that Trafford would get plenty of games to settle in, with an eye on him being ready to be their number one in 12 months time.

[dsr]

Interesting to note that City did not trigger Liam Delap's buy back clause (reportedly at £20m), presumably knowing Ipswich would receive more under his release clause (reportedly at £30m). It may give us a read across on the Trafford situation.

Perhaps he wouldn't go. It doesn't matter how much of a fee is agreed (or whether it is a buy-back clause from long ago), if the player won't sign a contract with the buyer, then it's meaningless.

[mikeS]

If we could hold on to last years squad with these key players, we could I believe stay up.
If we lose our best players, expecting a scratch side with a new captain, new keeper and other new players to cope with the step up to the PL, I think we all know what will happen to our form and our fortune in the PL.

[Spijed]

Interesting to note that City did not trigger Liam Delap's buy back clause (reportedly at £20m), presumably knowing Ipswich would receive more under his release clause (reportedly at £30m). It may give us a read across on the Trafford situation.

Or perhaps Man City simply didn't trigger it because they thought he's not good enough for them, compared to what they've already got.

[Duffer_]

Or perhaps Man City simply didn't trigger it because they thought he's not good enough for them, compared to what they've already got.

Yeah, that may very well be the case but my point was more about the economics of the situation. If you could buy something for £20m and instantly sell it for £30m, would you do it?

It's all conjecture but aggi and dsr have made good points that may prevent City from doing that.

[SirBob]

Perhaps he wouldn't go. It doesn't matter how much of a fee is agreed (or whether it is a buy-back clause from long ago), if the player won't sign a contract with the buyer, then it's meaningless.

It’s a buy back clause, Delap agreed to it when he was sold by City, if they choose to activate the clause he has no choice. He signed his terms the day he left them.

One of the reasons when we signed Ramsey it dragged on so long was because he had to negotiate his contract with villa should they active the clause.

[dsr]

It’s a buy back clause, Delap agreed to it when he was sold by City, if they choose to activate the clause he has no choice. He signed his terms the day he left them.

One of the reasons when we signed Ramsey it dragged on so long was because he had to negotiate his contract with villa should they active the clause.

You're sure? I can't imagine any player or his agent agreeing a contract where he is guaranteed nothing but his club has the right to whistle and make him come.

I doubt it would be legal under FA / FIFA rules about being under ownership of two clubs. I doubt it would be considered a fair contract under UK law, and certainly it wouldn't be enforceable - whether football's rules would be strong enough to stop the man signing for someone else, I doubt. Especially in the case of a 19 year old, it would likely be an unfair contract term.

But I could be wrong. Have you any evidence?

[Holtyclaret]

You're sure? I can't imagine any player or his agent agreeing a contract where he is guaranteed nothing but his club has the right to whistle and make him come.

I doubt it would be legal under FA / FIFA rules about being under ownership of two clubs. I doubt it would be considered a fair contract under UK law, and certainly it wouldn't be enforceable - whether football's rules would be strong enough to stop the man signing for someone else, I doubt. Especially in the case of a 19 year old, it would likely be an unfair contract term.

But I could be wrong. Have you any evidence?

I can remember that reported around the time we were signing him. Took an age for his purchase to be concluded because of it.

[SirBob]

You're sure? I can't imagine any player or his agent agreeing a contract where he is guaranteed nothing but his club has the right to whistle and make him come.

I doubt it would be legal under FA / FIFA rules about being under ownership of two clubs. I doubt it would be considered a fair contract under UK law, and certainly it wouldn't be enforceable - whether football's rules would be strong enough to stop the man signing for someone else, I doubt. Especially in the case of a 19 year old, it would likely be an unfair contract term.

But I could be wrong. Have you any evidence?

Sorry I’ve only just seen your reply, I don’t log in regularly.

Yes it’s absolutely right, buy back clauses would be absolutely worthless otherwise. Imagine we sell Koleosho for 5m to say Sheffield United with a 10m buy back clause in case he comes good, then he says no thanks I’ve come good I’d rather go to a more established prem side.

You sell a player with a buy back clause and they have to agree to it upon their sale, including all singing in fees and wages upon return. The club with the buy back clause holds all the cards.

If city or Villa chose to buy back Trafford or Ramsey on July 1st there is absolutely nothing we or the players mentioned can do about it, we’ve already agreed to it

[Milltown1882]

Sorry I’ve only just seen your reply, I don’t log in regularly.

Yes it’s absolutely right, buy back clauses would be absolutely worthless otherwise. Imagine we sell Koleosho for 5m to say Sheffield United with a 10m buy back clause in case he comes good, then he says no thanks I’ve come good I’d rather go to a more established prem side.

You sell a player with a buy back clause and they have to agree to it upon their sale, including all singing in fees and wages upon return. The club with the buy back clause holds all the cards.

If city or Villa chose to buy back Trafford or Ramsey on July 1st there is absolutely nothing we or the players mentioned can do about it, we’ve already agreed to it

Absolute ********

[Milltown1882]

Player consent is always required even if the buyback clause is triggered:

The buying club and the player must still agree on personal terms (salary, contract length, bonuses, etc.).
The player must pass a medical.
The player must agree to the move. A transfer cannot happen without the player's approval.

Seen some tripe on here but that one’s up there.

[SirBob]

Player consent is always required even if the buyback clause is triggered:

The buying club and the player must still agree on personal terms (salary, contract length, bonuses, etc.).
The player must pass a medical.
The player must agree to the move. A transfer cannot happen without the player's approval.

Seen some tripe on here but that one’s up there.

The player consented to the buy back clause already, Ramsey and Trafford negotiated salary, contract length and bonuses if they were to ever return to their original club, if they fail a medical is upto the buying club if they want execute the buy back clause.

The player agreed to the buy back clause when they where sold, it’s pretty simple… thay have already agreed to be bought back.. otherwise they wouldn’t of been sold to us in the first place

Otherwise a buy back clause would be worthless

Not sure how you aren’t understanding this

[Milltown1882]

The player consented to the buy back clause already, Ramsey and Trafford negotiated salary, contract length and bonuses if they were to ever return to their original club, if they fail a medical is upto the buying club if they want execute the buy back clause.

The player agreed to the buy back clause when they where sold, it’s pretty simple… thay have already agreed to be bought back.. otherwise they wouldn’t of been sold to us in the first place

Otherwise a buy back clause would be worthless

Not sure how you aren’t understanding this

Find me an employment law where what you’re saying is realistic.

You’re talking absolute rubbish with 0 evidence to support it.

[SirBob]

Find me an employment law where what you’re saying is realistic.

You’re talking absolute rubbish with 0 evidence to support it.

It’s a buy back clause, I’m not trying to patronise you but the clue is in the name, you can buy the player back if you wish(not if the player wishes) For a pre determined sum of money, this includes the players wages, contract length and signing on fee. The player agreed to these terms on initial sale, it’s pretty simple. It’s often why negotiations drag on for a while, like they did with Ramsey when we bought him from Villa, because he had to agree terms with us as well as Villa upon his potential return

Im not talking rubbish, you just don’t understand, which is fine

[SirBob]

Find me an employment law where what you’re saying is realistic.

You’re talking absolute rubbish with 0 evidence to support it.

I’ll play out a scenario for you.. imagine you work for Tesco

Hi Milltown, Asda want you sign you on a 4 year contract, we’re gonna sell you for 1 million pounds on 40k a year… but

If you turn out to be really good at your job we are going buy you back for 2 million pounds but pay you 60k a year on a 4 year contract if we activate this “buy back clause” do you agree?

Milltown: hell yeah 60k a week I’ll sign that contract right now

Tesco activate the buy back clause 2 years later

You now work for Tesco

Congratulations

[dsr]

I’ll play out a scenario for you.. imagine you work for Tesco

Hi Milltown, Asda want you sign you on a 4 year contract, we’re gonna sell you for 1 million pounds on 40k a year… but

If you turn out to be really good at your job we are going buy you back for 2 million pounds but pay you 60k a year on a 4 year contract if we activate this “buy back clause” do you agree?

Milltown: hell yeah 60k a week I’ll sign that contract right now

Tesco activate the buy back clause 2 years later

You now work for Tesco

Congratulations

Obviously that scenario would be illegal under UK employment law, so I'm not sure why you have included it. There is no way in which contracts for personal services can be enforced.

The difference in football, of course, is the registration rules. A player is registered with a single club, and while under UK law they can't make the player fulfil his contract, they can stop him playing for someone else if he refuses to play for them. However, that right comes with restrictions, and like I said earlier, the combination of FIFA and UEFA and FA rules about multiple ownership, combined with UK employment law, would in all probability make those terms illegal.

And like you say, there's little benefit for the player. So why do you think he would sign it?