Pace/ALK set to buy Espanyol?

[RVclaret]

If you want to believe that Pace is buying Espanyol for the benefit of Burnley then crack on fella.

Thanks, and if you aren’t open minded to query other benefits, which seems a strange thing to do, then crack on.

[ClaretPete001]

Private equity (I know ALK said they aren’t, but the structure is similar) typically takes money from investors, puts it to work over time, and then yes, returns money to those investors, with the aim of a positive cash on cash return for them, while taking a clip themselves.

There may have just not been enough significant investment to send through, which speaks to my first point. Let’s say a new investor gives Velocity £200m tomorrow, what exactly do you think Velocity will do? We know they would like to expand their portfolio, so that’s possible, but they also need to improve and grow their current portfolio (us), so hence some funds could trickle our way.


Yeah, I did wonder about this, to some degree. Perhaps the investor gets to ‘choose’ the portfolio, or select within it? Would love to know.

If you read the Press Release on Espanyol's web site and ignore the media then one it sounds like ALK are just doing what they said they would, which is to create a Sports Investment group with individual companies that are run by independent boards and management structures. The ALK team will probably spend their time looking for new investment opportunities and I guess the Chinese will just have representation on the board of the Investment company. New companies will get a lot of initial focus until they are 'normed' and after that they will be expected to wash their own faces.

It is like a Private Equity model. Some Private Equity companies do follow models, which tend to grow their businesses by using institutional funds (and perhaps some seriously wealthy Family Office type structures) to acquire related companies and integrating them into a core portfolios. So, products are bought with a customer base and the customer base is gradually moved to a single product line with shared business functions across the product portfolio thus increasing the customer base and cutting costs.

I guess a model like this could work in football where AI, Data, player scouting are all shared functions. This would provide a great deal of expertise not affordable by individual clubs. Players could be purchased with a number of clubs in mind (limited by the rules laid out by the various bodies) so you can see some synergy.

I think this would work for clubs like Espanyol but I tend to think we are too small. The advantages offered by this model would not outweigh the kind of inspired leadership and focused direction of the likes of Dyche and Garlick.

I tend to think KPIs and corporate HR departments are more likely to flow from PE type companies than investment cash.

[Rileybobs]

Thanks, and if you aren’t open minded to query other benefits, which seems a strange thing to do, then crack on.

I'm aware of the incidental benefits that being part of a multi-club ownership group may bring to BFC. But that is not why Alan Pace is buying Espanyol.

[Belial]

Going to be interesting to see if JJ Watt and to a lesser extent Dude Perfect extol the history of Espanyol now to their audiences

ApparentlyJJ is going to be "involved" in the deal so you'd think so

[ClaretPete001]

Well, hypothetically, a £20m ‘return’ could be a new Cricket Field stand. Adds more value to the stadium, and club, plus makes it more attractive for investors. It’s possible the £100m could be ‘returned’ upon a sale, e.g. in 2035 the club does a Brighton and is sold on for £400m, the £100m owed could remain with the club from the overall profit, no?

I don't think investors are looking to invest in football stands. The perennial problem remains that a football stand wouldn't greatly enhance the value of a club in the Championship nor would £20 million guarantee you a place in the PL.

Investors may invest in a new paradigm whereby an investment umbrella can successfully run multiple clubs over a period and assure double digit growth simply by increasing the product portfolio but integrating the costs and maximising investment but that's a big if in football in very competitive marketplaces competing against other who are very highly capitalised .

[ClaretPete001]

I'm aware of the incidental benefits that being part of a multi-club ownership group may bring to BFC. But that is not why Alan Pace is buying Espanyol.

I agree I tend to think there is far too much optimism about the virtues that this could bring but who knows they maybe right.

[Chester Perry]

If you read the Press Release on Espanyol's web site ....

again an archived copy of the statement for future reference - pretty much convinced now that little money used upfront and it is in effect a merger that allows for a withdrawal in the future for RASTAR should they wish

OFFICIAL STATEMENT
https://www.rcdespanyol.com/en/new/OFFI ... MENT/18864
https://archive.ph/ojNtF

[jedi_master]

I think Burnley will remain the priority to ALK so long as we are in the Premier League due to the money that generates. The issue is when (not if) we drop out of it again. If we are not financially supported at that point in time as the priority entity, bouncing back at the first opportunity may not be as 'simple' as it has been on the last three occasions we've been relegated. ALK might elect to preserve some of the Premier League players by shipping them to Espanyol if we get relegated (example, if this was in place when we went down with Kompany - perhaps Berge, Amdouni and O'Shea would have been passed off to Spain rather than their transfer revenue being used - a bit - to fund Parkers team). That is a concern to me.

[RVclaret]

I don't think investors are looking to invest in football stands. The perennial problem remains that a football stand wouldn't greatly enhance the value of a club in the Championship nor would £20 million guarantee you a place in the PL.

Investors may invest in a new paradigm whereby an investment opportunity can successfully run multiple clubs over a period and assure double digit growth simply by increasing the product portfolio but integrating the costs and maximising investment but that's a big if in football in very competitive marketplaces competing against other who are very highly capitalised .

Won’t quote your other reply, but I agree with what you said.

Here, it’s not really the choice of the investors, how the management group decide to use the funds (again, I’m speaking hypothetically here). That’s why they use ALK/Velocity, to be the specialists. There’s no doubt Burnley having a far better infrastructure has made us a more valuable club (modern technologies with data & analytics, Cat 1 academy, new, up to date and very nice training facilities etc). If a new stand would a) add further value for resale purposes or for attracting new investors b) make an ROI over time itself (particularly if used for other things than just match day), then the Net present value of the opportunity could be positive.

[ClaretTony]

Some people don't seem to get it. Alan Pace is buying Espanyol to benefit Alan Pace, not Burnley.

Some clearly don’t get it despite it being so obvious.

[randomclaret2]

Some clearly don’t get it despite it being so obvious.

Wonder if we'll hear anything from Mr Pace explaining things ? All the news seems to be coming from Spain.

[123EasyasBFC]

Some people don't seem to get it. Alan Pace is buying Espanyol to benefit Alan Pace, not Burnley.

Can it not be more than just benefiting Alan Pace? If Burnley benefit from the new partnership or if espanyol benefit from the new partnership that then benefits Alan Pace and the group of investors?

Is Alan Pace personally benefiting financially? Is there something we missing.

People can disagree with multi club ownerships but Alan Pace isn’t going to want Burnley to fail

[CrosspoolClarets]

I think Burnley will remain the priority to ALK so long as we are in the Premier League due to the money that generates. The issue is when (not if) we drop out of it again. If we are not financially supported at that point in time as the priority entity, bouncing back at the first opportunity may not be as 'simple' as it has been on the last three occasions we've been relegated. ALK might elect to preserve some of the Premier League players by shipping them to Espanyol if we get relegated (example, if this was in place when we went down with Kompany - perhaps Berge, Amdouni and O'Shea would have been passed off to Spain rather than their transfer revenue being used - a bit - to fund Parkers team). That is a concern to me.

Using that logic, Burnley are the Golden Goose and thus Parker’s team needed funding. There is no way that Espanyol will ever be worth more than Burnley because La Liga simply doesn’t generate enough money outside the big 4-5. ALK will realise this. OK, they are doing this investment for them not for us, but if they take their eye off the Burnley ball, it will ruin their investment, so they won’t.

[123EasyasBFC]

Some clearly don’t get it despite it being so obvious.

You did want us to become more like Brighton and Bournemouth tbf hahaha, this is the first step.

[NewClaret]

I think Burnley will remain the priority to ALK so long as we are in the Premier League due to the money that generates. The issue is when (not if) we drop out of it again. If we are not financially supported at that point in time as the priority entity, bouncing back at the first opportunity may not be as 'simple' as it has been on the last three occasions we've been relegated. ALK might elect to preserve some of the Premier League players by shipping them to Espanyol if we get relegated (example, if this was in place when we went down with Kompany - perhaps Berge, Amdouni and O'Shea would have been passed off to Spain rather than their transfer revenue being used - a bit - to fund Parkers team). That is a concern to me.

I agree about Burnley being the key focus, but probably even if relegated because we’ll still be able to produce players like Trafford that can sell for £40m. We’ll always be the club that will generate the biggest fees for players.

I look at your relegation risk very differently though. I’d say being part of a larger group de-risks our position on relegation. As you say, it could help get big wages off the books, allow us to ‘keep’ players for the expected Premier League return, or loan good players from them. Essentially the ‘group’ has more financial clout and flexibility than we would as a sole entity, notwithstanding they’ll be run independently.

I agree with you that it’s a when not if scenario but also, with two 100 point finishes and 5 losses in 120 games or whatever it is, I do think the relegation fears are not somewhat overstated generally.

The bigger risk, in my view, is what might happen if they were relegated. Might we be utilised to support them in a way that may not be in our best interests? Or worse, what might happen if we were both relegated in the same year.

[NewClaret]

Wonder if we'll hear anything from Mr Pace explaining things ? All the news seems to be coming from Spain.

Presumably restricted in what he can say until the regulatory hurdles are passed?

[ClaretTony]

Can it not be more than just benefiting Alan Pace? If Burnley benefit from the new partnership or if espanyol benefit from the new partnership that then benefits Alan Pace and the group of investors?

Is Alan Pace personally benefiting financially? Is there something we missing.

People can disagree with multi club ownerships but Alan Pace isn’t going to want Burnley to fail

Can you think of one reason why he would invest in any football club other than making money?

[Rileybobs]

Can it not be more than just benefiting Alan Pace? If Burnley benefit from the new partnership or if espanyol benefit from the new partnership that then benefits Alan Pace and the group of investors?

Is Alan Pace personally benefiting financially? Is there something we missing.

People can disagree with multi club ownerships but Alan Pace isn’t going to want Burnley to fail

Of course Alan Pace is benefiting financially. What do you think he's in this for?

And of course he doesn't want Burnley to fail. Nobody said that he does.

[NewClaret]

Can you think of one reason why he would invest in any football club other than making money?

Nope. That’s the problem with any business man owning any football club. I don’t think anything has changed from yesterday to today, or last decade to this, in that respect though.

Personally I think all football clubs should be designated community assets and owned by the fans, not dislike Espanyol’s rivals Barca as it happens, but sadly that will never happen in this country now.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Is there a list of football clubs where the owners don't want to make money ?

Obviously Dale Vince would be on it but I am not sure many would want to follow his method. The last owner claimed to be a Burnley fan and yet he was in it to make money.

[NewClaret]

Of course Alan Pace is benefiting financially. What do you think he's in this for?

And of course he doesn't want Burnley to fail. Nobody said that he does.

I agree with all of this. Basically interests are aligned because Alan and his shareholders will want to benefit financially which will only happen if both Espanyol and Burnley (and by the sounds of it, other clubs to follow) mutually benefit from the new structure/arrangements.

If any are negatively impacted the value will fall and their prospects of a financial return will diminish.

[NewClaret]

Is there a list of football clubs where the owners don't want to make money ?

Obviously Dale Vince would be on it but I am not sure many would want to follow his method. The last owner claimed to be a Burnley fan and yet he was in it to make money.

They all do. The only way you avoid it is fan ownership (not without its pitfalls but a much better model overall).

[ab1882]

I think Burnley will remain the priority to ALK so long as we are in the Premier League due to the money that generates. The issue is when (not if) we drop out of it again. If we are not financially supported at that point in time as the priority entity, bouncing back at the first opportunity may not be as 'simple' as it has been on the last three occasions we've been relegated. ALK might elect to preserve some of the Premier League players by shipping them to Espanyol if we get relegated (example, if this was in place when we went down with Kompany - perhaps Berge, Amdouni and O'Shea would have been passed off to Spain rather than their transfer revenue being used - a bit - to fund Parkers team). That is a concern to me.

I've had a similar thought, but a tad more on the optimistic side. Ultimately, I don't know how this is going to work but doubt Berge or O'Shea would have wanted to go to Spain when Prem money was on offer. Would have been a decent trap door for Amdouni or some of our more technical players that have looked undersized in the Prem. Maybe some of our signings this summer have been keener to sign as they know a potential loan to La Liga is available if we get relegated.

Inter group mass transfers seem relatively uncommon expect BHA to Union SG in 22/23. I can’t see any this season except maybe a keeper, Pires, Ekdal or Tresor if SP deems them surplus to requirements. Maybe even Delcroix if we can't move him and they're short.

I think there’s a chance we’ll send some of our young lads to help their B team in the fourth tier, they can go as high as one below their A team. I can see that being more beneficial to the group long term.

[Goliath]

The only benefit I can see at the moment is that it shows we have creative owners with a modern approach. I don't like it and I don't trust them one bit but I think creative approaches are the only way we can compete at the top table now.
If we had Mike Garlick here still I don't think his way would be sustainable, we just wouldn't be able to compete financially in the transfer market with the rest of the league.

I'd be a lot more comfortable with it if we were the parent club though. I'm not sure what the plan is but theoretically it could mean if we have a high performer in the PL, the owners could move him over to Espanyol for a fraction of his true value so Burnley never sees the financial benefit of selling.
For example, could the owners not now sign Esteve for Espanyol for say 10 million therefore costing Burnley a potential 40 mill.

[RVclaret]

The only benefit I can see at the moment is that it shows we have creative owners with a modern approach. I don't like it and I don't trust them one bit but I think creative approaches are the only way we can compete at the top table now.
If we had Mike Garlick here still I don't think his way would be sustainable, we just wouldn't be able to compete financially in the transfer market with the rest of the league.

I'd be a lot more comfortable with it if we were the parent club though. I'm not sure what the plan is but theoretically it could mean if we have a high performer in the PL, the owners could move him over to Espanyol for a fraction of his true value so Burnley never sees the financial benefit of selling.
For example, could the owners not now sign Esteve for Espanyol for say 10 million therefore costing Burnley a potential 40 mill.

No, this does not make sense for them, in achieving their goal of making Burnley a ‘sustainable’ Premier League club.

[123EasyasBFC]

Can you think of one reason why he would invest in any football club other than making money?

Isn’t that the same for every club owner in football?

[123EasyasBFC]

Of course Alan Pace is benefiting financially. What do you think he's in this for?

And of course he doesn't want Burnley to fail. Nobody said that he does.

Alan pace only benefits financially if the clubs he owns benefit financially.

Every club owner in the world wants the exact same

[ClaretTony]

Isn’t that the same for every club owner in football?

My post was in direct response to your post about whether Pace was making money, not about anyone else nor any other football club.

[Spijed]

Is there a list of football clubs where the owners don't want to make money ?

Obviously Dale Vince would be on it but I am not sure many would want to follow his method. The last owner claimed to be a Burnley fan and yet he was in it to make money.

Has Tony Bloom got money back from Brighton?

[Socrates]

Has Tony Bloom got money back from Brighton?

He would now if he sold it. The asset has increased in value beyond all recognition.

[Row x]

Isn’t that the same for every club owner in football?

Yes
There's very few Jack Walkers about nowadays

[123EasyasBFC]

My post was in direct response to your post about whether Pace was making money, not about anyone else nor any other football club.

But there’s no proof that Alan pace is personally making money, it’s purely speculative

[123EasyasBFC]

Has Tony Bloom got money back from Brighton?

Do you think Tony Bloom would be investing money if he wasn’t making money or going to make money from selling eventually

[claretonthecoast1882]

Has Tony Bloom got money back from Brighton?

Has he sold up ?

[Big Vinny K]

Do you think Tony Bloom would be investing money if he wasn’t making money or going to make money from selling eventually

Yep

[ClaretTony]

But there’s no proof that Alan pace is personally making money, it’s purely speculative

Well there’s no answer to that

[Spijed]

Has he sold up ?

Isn't he like Eddie Davies at Bolton & Jack Walker & Rovers in that he's happy to put money into the club without seeking to get anything out financially?

[Chester Perry]

Yep

Me too

[Chester Perry]

But there’s no proof that Alan pace is personally making money, it’s purely speculative

that is because none of the businesses he is involved with that provide him direct income produce accounts, a statement that also aligns to the ones that own the majority shareholding in Burnley Football Club

[JR1882]

Has Tony Bloom got money back from Brighton?

Don’t think he’s in it for the money, estimates are he has put upwards of £400m in to get them where they are and he holds I think 75%. So would need a sale in & around 600m to turn any reasonable profit.

I assume he will get some sort of return at some point but I think he’s just doing what he loves with them.

[ClaretPete001]

again an archived copy of the statement for future reference - pretty much convinced now that little money used upfront and it is in effect a merger that allows for a withdrawal in the future for RASTAR should they wish

OFFICIAL STATEMENT
https://www.rcdespanyol.com/en/new/OFFI ... MENT/18864
https://archive.ph/ojNtF

Thanks and totally agree.

[123EasyasBFC]

Well there’s no answer to that

So nobody can say Alan pace is personally making money out of Burnley then

[123EasyasBFC]

that is because none of the businesses he is involved with that provide him direct income produce accounts, a statement that also aligns to the ones that own the majority shareholding in Burnley Football Club

So there is nothing that shows Alan Pace is not personally making money out of owning Burnley or Espanyol.

People can disagree with the way he does business but nobody can factually say he is personally making any money

[Big Vinny K]

So nobody can say Alan pace is personally making money out of Burnley then

Do you understand anything about the takeover, our debt structure or our accounts ?

[aggi]

Espanyol seem to be Schrodinger's football club. Poor enough that we can send our substandard players there and they'll be grateful for them but also good enough that they'll be taking Premier League players from us to keep them whilst we get promoted again.

[123EasyasBFC]

Do you understand anything about the takeover, our debt structure or our accounts ?

I don’t need to know the full ins and outs but if you want to show me anything that shows Alan Pace has personally benefited or received money since his owning us then feel free to show me

[ŽižkovClaret]

I don’t need to know the full ins and outs but if you want to show me anything that shows Alan Pace has personally benefited or received money since his owning us then feel free to show me

Well, we aren't under the illusion that he hasn't been taking a salary are we?

[123EasyasBFC]

Well, we aren't under the illusion that he hasn't been taking a salary are we?

I don’t want this thread to go off in a tangent but again purely speculation

[Big Vinny K]

Well, we aren't under the illusion that he hasn't been taking a salary are we?

He’s claiming job seekers allowance of £71 per week apparently

All these other many companies he’s set up and the various inter company loans if you follow the complex trail like I have end up at a lovely little non for profit charity where everything is donated to the local donkey sanctuary,

He just loves “lil old Burnley….and Dundee…..and Espanyol”

[boyyanno]

I agree with all of this. Basically interests are aligned because Alan and his shareholders will want to benefit financially which will only happen if both Espanyol and Burnley (and by the sounds of it, other clubs to follow) mutually benefit from the new structure/arrangements.

If any are negatively impacted the value will fall and their prospects of a financial return will diminish.

Kind of. I think where ALK see the real value in general is through creating a massive multi club ownership structure, I think if they do that it will far outweigh any return on investment they'd likely get from a smallish club like us. Basically whilst they obviously want us to be successful I don't think it's where they plan to make their money.

They acquired us for little outlay of their own anyway, if they replicate that with a few clubs they'll have a portfolio worth many times what they paid for it. It doesn't bank on us being successful long term imo.