more planned alterations at Turf Moor

[Barlickclaret]

So the public consultation period on the proposed alterations expires on the 8th October but I’m sure people will have noticed the new wall and relocated turnstiles going in at the old away fans entrance well before any consent is granted. What do you think are the chances of the council planning enforcement officers telling the club to stop work as they would be pretty quick to do if you try and build a house extension before you have permission

There will be things they can do without planning permission, but if your upset about it,and it's affecting your life that much,get yourself to the planning office and raise your concerns.

[Transpennine]

So the public consultation period on the proposed alterations expires on the 8th October but I’m sure people will have noticed the new wall and relocated turnstiles going in at the old away fans entrance well before any consent is granted. What do you think are the chances of the council planning enforcement officers telling the club to stop work as they would be pretty quick to do if you try and build a house extension before you have permission

Its possible that planning permission isn't required for that specific element of the work. I would expect there to be regular discussions between the club and planning officers throughout this process. Therfore if any planning officers thought this would need planning then they would advise the club accordingly before any work starts.

[The Shire Claret]

So the public consultation period on the proposed alterations expires on the 8th October but I’m sure people will have noticed the new wall and relocated turnstiles going in at the old away fans entrance well before any consent is granted. What do you think are the chances of the council planning enforcement officers telling the club to stop work as they would be pretty quick to do if you try and build a house extension before you have permission

Hopefully they wouldn't do that as it's going to improve the stadium , that's the bit i'm most interested in seeing.

I'm sure discussions are in place and the council are fully aware of how much money our club brings to the town

We don't want an Accrington Stanley situation with Hyndburn Council

[NewClaret]

There are a number of possible explanations, ranging from those elements being considered permitted development to the club having been given positive feedback throughout pre-planning and planning process to be comfortable making a start to shorten overall timescales.

Either way, great to see some action.

[bobinho]

I hope the boys and girls in the CFS are aware that their walk to the turnstiles has just been shortened by a few yards!

Too soon?

[KellyClaret]

Hopefully they wouldn't do that as it's going to improve the stadium , that's the bit i'm most interested in seeing.

I'm sure discussions are in place and the council are fully aware of how much money our club brings to the town

We don't want an Accrington Stanley situation with Hyndburn Council

We also don't want the opposite happen where the council feels they need to be more favourable than they usually would because they don't want to upset the club or people working at it.

[Transpennine]

We also don't want the opposite happen where the council feels they need to be more favourable than they usually would because they don't want to upset the club or people working at it.

Is there any evidence of that happening? If you think it might be an issue, you can submit a freedom of information request for all details regarding the planning and pre planning application.

[GetIntoEm]

I hope the boys and girls in the CFS are aware that their walk to the turnstiles has just been shortened by a few yards!

Too soon?

It's too close now. Pace out

[Chester Perry]

Is there any evidence of that happening? If you think it might be an issue, you can submit a freedom of information request for all details regarding the planning and pre planning application.

I would start with the Town to Turf project - all done, primarily, to benefit the club with public money. The delivery of which caused incredible disruption for a year and likely negatively impacted many local businesses.

[NewClaret]

I would start with the Town to Turf project - all done, primarily, to benefit the club with public money. The delivery of which caused incredible disruption for a year and likely negatively impacted many local businesses.

Absolute nonsense. It was all public realm works, which benefit the…. public, not the club.

Not that I’d have taken the underpass or roundabout out personally, but the suggestion that the club “primarily benefit” from their removal, the culvert being repaired or footpaths widened on a walk up to the club is just total rubbish, CP.

That part of town was well overdue improvements and I’d say, still in dire need of public funding for regeneration. They literally scratched the surface of what’s really needed.

[RicardoMontalban]

I would start with the Town to Turf project - all done, primarily, to benefit the club with public money. The delivery of which caused incredible disruption for a year and likely negatively impacted many local businesses.

I think that’s a bit simplistic.

The rest of St James’s Street, Curzon Street, and Pioneer Place had been developed. The stretch from Turf Moor to the Bus Station was the next obvious area to be looked at and was in desperate need after the other redevelopment work. People can agree or disagree how that layout might look and whether it’s the best it could be, but it was sorely needed. And alas, public realm works like that do cause disruption.

To paint it as a sop to the club is poor. For the town, especially if we have ambitions of maintaining a team that’s regularly in the top flight and attracting visitors and investment as a result of that visibility, the main approach to the ground from the town centre and most public transport links etc does need to be looked at. And let’s be honest, for years that stretch was a dump, and that’s being charitable. I’m not saying it’s like strolling through some utopian dream, but it’s miles better than it was.

And as I understand it, that money was public realm capital investment funding. It’s getting spent on a town centre somewhere, why not ours?

[Chester Perry]

I think that’s a bit simplistic.

The rest of St James’s Street, Curzon Street, and Pioneer Place had been developed. The stretch from Turf Moor to the Bus Station was the next obvious area to be looked at and was in desperate need after the other redevelopment work. People can agree or disagree how that layout might look and whether it’s the best it could be, but it was sorely needed. And alas, public realm works like that do cause disruption.

To paint it as a sop to the club is poor. For the town, especially if we have ambitions of maintaining a team that’s regularly in the top flight and attracting visitors and investment as a result of that visibility, the main approach to the ground from the town centre and most public transport links etc does need to be looked at. And let’s be honest, for years that stretch was a dump, and that’s being charitable. I’m not saying it’s like strolling through some utopian dream, but it’s miles better than it was.

And as I understand it, that money was public realm capital investment funding. It’s getting spent on a town centre somewhere, why not ours?

Not linked according to the council's own description of it

https://burnley.gov.uk/business/economi ... wn-2-turf/

what I said remains entirely relevant

[claretonthecoast1882]

I would start with the Town to Turf project - all done, primarily, to benefit the club with public money. The delivery of which caused incredible disruption for a year and likely negatively impacted many local businesses.

Spoken like someone who doesn't live in the town, doesn't go to games and has an irrational dislike of the owners.

Such a stupid take on a project to improve the town.

[RicardoMontalban]

Not linked according to the council's own description of it

https://burnley.gov.uk/business/economi ... wn-2-turf/

what I said remains entirely relevant

Sorry, but that’s nonsense. Which bit of that link supports what you’ve said, or contradicts what I’ve said?

Is it the part about funding? The government’s web page about on the levelling up fund is entirely consistent with a public realm infrastructure improvement project.

Or the section about it forming a part of the regeneration corridor, as per St James’s Street, Curzon Street etc?

Or the fact that Burnley FC are, like it or not, strategic partners in the town?

[Chester Perry]

Spoken like someone who doesn't live in the town, doesn't go to games and has an irrational dislike of the owners.

Such a stupid take on a project to improve the town.

Lived in the town all my life - apart from University (can you say the same given your moniker) and certainly witnessed the impact the interminable delivery that this 'project had. Anyone living in the town also knows that the area around the culvert is now a public drinking pack for those who do the image of the town little favour

I no longer go to games - that has been the case for many years including the previous regimes and has been explained by me more than once on these pages

I don't care for certain behaviours of the current owners. again discussed previously

I do love my town and club, though I have been known to despair at both

[Transpennine]

I would start with the Town to Turf project - all done, primarily, to benefit the club with public money. The delivery of which caused incredible disruption for a year and likely negatively impacted many local businesses.

I haven't seen the specific business case that would have been approved in order to gain the required funding.

However I strongly suspect that in the 'Benefits/objectives/outcomes section, it didnt stipulate that it would primarily benefit Burnley FC with public money.

It would have been laughed out of town at the first draft.

[Loyalclaret]

Lived in the town all my life - apart from University (can you say the same given your moniker) and certainly witnessed the impact the interminable delivery that this 'project had. Anyone living in the town also knows that the area around the culvert is now a public drinking pack for those who do the image of the town little favour

I no longer go to games - that has been the case for many years including the previous regimes and has been explained by me more than once on these pages

I don't care for certain behaviours of the current owners. again discussed previously

I do love my town and club, though I have been known to despair at both

The alcoholics were there before, outside TK Maxx/Sainsburys, you couldn't see them as well. There's another project in town that should shoulder the blame for the increasing visibility of them under the Culvert, outside TK Maxd, outside McDonald's and down to M & S.

[The Shire Claret]

I would start with the Town to Turf project - all done, primarily, to benefit the club with public money. The delivery of which caused incredible disruption for a year and likely negatively impacted many local businesses.

It Certainly lasted longer than it should have but it certainly looks a lot better and Burnley compared to a lot of towns is thriving with the developments that have happened in the town with Pioneer Place and the University

The worst Disruption I have seen is Haslingdens main street currently ... I don;t know how those businesses are keeping open and the market revamp was an absolute calamity

Same with Accringtons Market

[Targetman]

It Certainly lasted longer than it should have but it certainly looks a lot better and Burnley compared to a lot of towns is thriving with the developments that have happened in the town with Pioneer Place and the University

The worst Disruption I have seen is Haslingdens main street currently ... I don;t know how those businesses are keeping open and the market revamp was an absolute calamity

Same with Accringtons Market

I believe Deardengate in Haslingden will be closed until next year.

I will echo your thoughts on the local businesses on that road, it must be devastating for them.

[The Shire Claret]

I believe Deardengate in Haslingden will be closed until next year.

I will echo your thoughts on the local businesses on that road, it must be devastating for them.

It’s absolutely shocking …

[RicardoMontalban]

It Certainly lasted longer than it should have but it certainly looks a lot better and Burnley compared to a lot of towns is thriving with the developments that have happened in the town with Pioneer Place and the University

The worst Disruption I have seen is Haslingdens main street currently ... I don;t know how those businesses are keeping open and the market revamp was an absolute calamity

Same with Accringtons Market

Think it actually finished on schedule, if not slightly ahead.

[NewClaret]

It’s absolutely shocking …

It is, and I get your point, but equally towns have to undergo works like this for their betterment and long term prosperity.

It’s a lot of short-term pain for hopefully decades of gain by making them much nicer places to visit and therefore operate businesses from.

The Deardengate plans look great to me and will be a big improvement when completed. A lot more work needed though.

[Goliath]

My only issue with the town to turf scheme is the lack of bike lanes. I'm not sure why they couldn't have split the pavements into pedestrian and cyclists

[dougcollins]

The alcoholics were there before, outside TK Maxx/Sainsburys, you couldn't see them as well. There's another project in town that should shoulder the blame for the increasing visibility of them under the Culvert, outside TK Maxd, outside McDonald's and down to M & S.

How do you spot the difference between them and the Flat Earthers outside McDonalds?

Do they wear badges?

[GetIntoEm]

All waiting for the ex gangster in the religious get up to come and "fix" them

[Quickenthetempo]

My only issue with the town to turf scheme is the lack of bike lanes. I'm not sure why they couldn't have split the pavements into pedestrian and cyclists

There's a bike lane that runs right through the town centre and nobody pays any attention to it at all.
I rode through at about 5mph and could still have knocked 5 or 6 people down, who just walked straight in front of me without looking.

In fact there's not many cycle lanes that do work. Pedestrians think they have right of way in them as do taxis and cars that wish to park up.

[Goliath]

There's a bike lane that runs right through the town centre and nobody pays any attention to it at all.
I rode through at about 5mph and could still have knocked 5 or 6 people down, who just walked straight in front of me without looking.

In fact there's not many cycle lanes that do work. Pedestrians think they have right of way in them as do taxis and cars that wish to park up.

That's a learning exercise though isn't it. It's never really been a part of our culture and until we have more then it won't be.

I've been in many countries where they work fine, it just takes persistence and resources to make It happen.

[The Shire Claret]

It is, and I get your point, but equally towns have to undergo works like this for their betterment and long term prosperity.

It’s a lot of short-term pain for hopefully decades of gain by making them much nicer places to visit and therefore operate businesses from.

The Deardengate plans look great to me and will be a big improvement when completed. A lot more work needed though.

I agree and when it’s finished it’s going to look great … I just hope they finish is on time and not like the market that took an age to complete

Just wonder if there could have been a less disruptive way to get the work done

[Quickenthetempo]

That's a learning exercise though isn't it. It's never really been a part of our culture and until we have more then it won't be.

I've been in many countries where they work fine, it just takes persistence and resources to make It happen.

You are up against it in this country as people are just so selfish.

[Goliath]

You are up against it in this country as people are just so selfish.

I'm not sure that's right. People are sheep, if we get more bike lanes, more people start riding and then people copy because it becomes a trend. It's already happened in London and I'd think without researching it, we are at the start of that change in Manchester as well.

[NewClaret]

My only issue with the town to turf scheme is the lack of bike lanes. I'm not sure why they couldn't have split the pavements into pedestrian and cyclists

Got to say, and I’m no cyclist so clearly biased, but after looking at what a complete mess Deansgate looks with bike lanes, I’d rather they didn’t! What a hideous mess that has become!

[ŽižkovClaret]

Any pics of the work beinv done?

[Burnley1989]

You are up against it in this country as people are just so selfish.

Im with Goliath on this one, I dont think the UK is too bad (obviously there are some bad exceptions), I was in Spain recently and couldnt believe how rude people were. Queuing for a bus with my children, or anything for that matter, its just a free for all and they literally push you out of the way when the bus arrives and this happened every single time.

[Stevie2112]

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3wy7xv8w ... snznz&dl=0
New turnstiles for the CFS.

[Loyalclaret]

Are they not the same turnstiles, moved 20ft forward?

[wilks_bfc]

Are they not the same turnstiles, moved 20ft forward?

No they look like new automatic ones that don’t require somebody to press the peddle to release the turnstile to enter

[Corky]

No they look like new automatic ones that don’t require somebody to press the peddle to release the turnstile to enter

They look secondhand to me

[Loyalclaret]

No they look like new automatic ones that don’t require somebody to press the peddle to release the turnstile to enter

I was sober against Forest, so should remember but I'm pretty certain they were in place at the last game!

[Quickenthetempo]

Im with Goliath on this one, I dont think the UK is too bad (obviously there are some bad exceptions), I was in Spain recently and couldnt believe how rude people were. Queuing for a bus with my children, or anything for that matter, its just a free for all and they literally push you out of the way when the bus arrives and this happened every single time.

I was meaning car drivers and parking habits really.

I am always looking for new cycle routes so keep an eye out when travelling and the amount of cars parked up in them illegally is shocking.
Some cars park up overnight in them etc..

[wilks_bfc]

I was sober against Forest, so should remember but I'm pretty certain they were in place at the last game!

They may be then
I’m not in CFS so wasn’t aware the turnstiles had been changed and assumed they were the same as the rest of stadium where there’s a steward pressing the peddle

[Stevie2112]

I was sober against Forest, so should remember but I'm pretty certain they were in place at the last game!

Sober or not, I can assure you they have only put these in since the last game. They were still wiring up last night as I took the pic.

[Goliath]

Got to say, and I’m no cyclist so clearly biased, but after looking at what a complete mess Deansgate looks with bike lanes, I’d rather they didn’t! What a hideous mess that has become!

So you'd prefer it to look better but be less accessible for cyclists? I think I'd take the functionality over the appearance.

In fact ideally deansgate shouldn't have any traffic on at all, it would transform Manchester for the better if could be restricted to cyclists and pedestrians. Not sure if that's feasible.

[dandeclaret]

I was meaning car drivers and parking habits really.

I am always looking for new cycle routes so keep an eye out when travelling and the amount of cars parked up in them illegally is shocking.
Some cars park up overnight in them etc..

And as a mainly pedestrian, I find cyclists to be the most entitled and self important people in transport. Traffic on the road? I'll cycle on the pavement. Even on my fat wheeled, electric powered bike at unsafe speeds. Red lights? Nah they don't apply, nor do zebra crossings or pelican crossings.Here in Dublin they've put in cycle lanes, purpose built, turning roads into one way streets, with kerbs seperating them - completely breaking many traffic flows, but they're not used. The cyclists are still either cutting in and out of traffic because they want to get to the pedestrian crossing to cross the road, to cycle the wrong way down another pavement to cut out waiting in lights..... oh but we clip in and it's hard to unclip..... i don't care, your behaviour, cycling into people on pavements is selfish.... you're not the most important people in the world.

[ecc]

When in Amsterdam last I was more afraid of being ploughed down by a bike than a car. But then that country is off the scale in terms of cycling.

Cycle paths are very common in France and the system works pretty well. Just a pity most people don't know how to drive properly.

[Quickenthetempo]

And as a mainly pedestrian, I find cyclists to be the most entitled and self important people in transport. Traffic on the road? I'll cycle on the pavement. Even on my fat wheeled, electric powered bike at unsafe speeds. Red lights? Nah they don't apply, nor do zebra crossings or pelican crossings.Here in Dublin they've put in cycle lanes, purpose built, turning roads into one way streets, with kerbs seperating them - completely breaking many traffic flows, but they're not used. The cyclists are still either cutting in and out of traffic because they want to get to the pedestrian crossing to cross the road, to cycle the wrong way down another pavement to cut out waiting in lights..... oh but we clip in and it's hard to unclip..... i don't care, your behaviour, cycling into people on pavements is selfish.... you're not the most important people in the world.

Do you think it's an Irish/Dublin or city thing all this bad cycling?
Luckily in the Burnley area we have plenty of greenways/bridleways/canal paths etc.. so can avoid mass traffic.

Suked up Electric bikes/scooters are a different thing all together.

[NewClaret]

So you'd prefer it to look better but be less accessible for cyclists? I think I'd take the functionality over the appearance.

In fact ideally deansgate shouldn't have any traffic on at all, it would transform Manchester for the better if could be restricted to cyclists and pedestrians. Not sure if that's feasible.

Can’t upload a file for some reason but Deansgate is the biggest waste of public money I have ever seen. It’s a mess. Cones everywhere. Bus stops left in that are no longer accessible to busses. The bike lanes are more like a slalom course than a bike lane (bizarrely slaloming bus lanes that can now no longer be used!!!). And to cap it all off the traffic is worse than it ever was now it’s down to one lane in parts. Total gridlock. It’s like a 6 year old designed it.

So, yeah, if that’s how Yorkshire St would look with cycle lanes, I’d prefer them not at all (sorry cyclists).

I think you’re right about Deansgate though, the whole lot should’ve been pedestrianised and then there would be plenty of room for cycle lanes without big bollards, etc. It could be tree lined and beautiful but it’s a right mess.

Which is sort of my point. My view is any road has cars, cyclists and pedestrians to consider. On a road like Yorkshire St, cars are going to dominate during the week and pedestrians are going to hugely dominate on match day. I’d be surprised if you got as many cyclists over a month as you’d get on a single Matchday. So the space you have has to have to prioritise for your biggest users, else you end up serving none of them properly.

If the Turf were closer to town, like Deansgate is, I’d have no issue whatsoever with the whole approach being pedestrianised.

[Goliath]

Can’t upload a file for some reason but Deansgate is the biggest waste of public money I have ever seen. It’s a mess. Cones everywhere. Bus stops left in that are no longer accessible to busses. The bike lanes are more like a slalom course than a bike lane (bizarrely slaloming bus lanes that can now no longer be used!!!). And to cap it all off the traffic is worse than it ever was now it’s down to one lane in parts. Total gridlock. It’s like a 6 year old designed it.

So, yeah, if that’s how Yorkshire St would look with cycle lanes, I’d prefer them not at all (sorry cyclists).

I think you’re right about Deansgate though, the whole lot should’ve been pedestrianised and then there would be plenty of room for cycle lanes without big bollards, etc. It could be tree lined and beautiful but it’s a right mess.

Which is sort of my point. My view is any road has cars, cyclists and pedestrians to consider. On a road like Yorkshire St, cars are going to dominate during the week and pedestrians are going to hugely dominate on match day. I’d be surprised if you got as many cyclists over a month as you’d get on a single Matchday. So the space you have has to have to prioritise for your biggest users, else you end up serving none of them properly.

If the Turf were closer to town, like Deansgate is, I’d have no issue whatsoever with the whole approach being pedestrianised.

Aren't the issues you mention evidence of not enough spending rather than wastage. They've basically done it on the cheap no?
I think Northern quarter is similar, rather than properly pedesteianising it, they've patched it up.

It's better than nothing but really it needs some proper investment and planning not just some cheap cones putting out.