5 Defeats...

[randomclaret2]

5 Defeats in our first 7 PL games...5 in our last 115 Championship games.

[fidelcastro]

Who knew there was such a gulf in quality between the two leagues?

[Lakeland Claret]

What did you really expect at start of season ? Apart from one we ve been in the games until the end unlike last time at this level. Now can we develop and take points / wins ?

[HurstGrangeClaret]

We always knew what a tough start it was going to be although today’s team performance was disappointing.
Let’s hope our new players are going to bed in very soon and we can turn our form/results around.

[Nonayforever]

5 defeats & thrown a cup game !

[The Shire Claret]

5 - Very Expected Defeats ….

No need to panic yet

[Goliath]

I'm finding this season especially dull. Last time round there was a bit of excitement about all the new players and thinking we were going to outplay teams.

This time it seems there's a bit of a resignation already.
Also, I'm convinced we are struggling for sharpness through lack of games. We play once every 7 or 8 days compared to teams like Villa that have got 2 games a week and can rotate the squad making sure everyone's getting lots of minutes.

It might work in our favour later in the season but at the moment we just lack any momentum. Now we've got another 2 week break before our next game.

It's pretty crap.

[Woodleyclaret]

Some positive signs from Loam,Les.Q .Nigel Axel and Tino all showed good touches and our points will come.

[Beagle]

Last time out first seven games:

0-3 L v City
1-3 L v Villa
2-5 L v Spurs
1-1 D v Forest
0-1 L v United
0-2 L v Newcastle
2-1 W v Luton

4 points 6F 15A

This season after seven games 4 points 7F 15A

Not really sure what point I’m making aside from the fact that we’re certainly consistent.

[boatshed bill]

Last time out first seven games:

0-3 L v City
1-3 L v Villa
2-5 L v Spurs
1-1 D v Forest
0-1 L v United
0-2 L v Newcastle
2-1 W v Luton

4 points 6F 15A

This season after seven games 4 points 7F 15A

Not really sure what point I’m making aside from the fact that we’re certainly consistent.

Yes, virtually identical. We can hardly compete at this level.
The only real difference is tactical; Parker is defensively inclined, Kompany tried to play attractive football. Same outcome probably.

[wilks_bfc]

Before the season started, did anybody really expect to be on more than 4 points at this stage?

[Dyched]

Take the rough with the smooth.

Anyway, we’re still ahead of Blackburn since the start of the 22/23 Championship season we’ve taken more points than them, still.

13 more points than them, despite playing 54 games less

[Spijed]

Before the season started, did anybody really expect to be on more than 4 points at this stage?

The way Sunderland competed against Forest and Villa then maybe we should have been on the front foot a bit more.

[RVclaret]

The way Sunderland competed against Forest and Villa then maybe we should have been on the front foot a bit more.

Sorry but did you watch the game yesterday? How much more front footed could we be? First half Walker, Hartman & Cullen were pressing relentlessly within Villa’s own third? Ironically the team got slagged off for their first goal, which came from us being on the front foot…?

[Silkyskills1]

Now can we develop and take points / wins ?

What does that mean? Develop into what?

[ClaretTony]

Sorry but did you watch the game yesterday? How much more front footed could we be? First half Walker, Hartman & Cullen were pressing relentlessly within Villa’s own third? Ironically the team got slagged off for their first goal, which came from us being on the front foot…?

Unfortunately there are posters who must be itching for a defeat so they can complain about something or other. I’ve learned to stay away for much of the time after we’ve lost.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Unfortunately there are posters who must be itching for a defeat so they can complain about something or other. I’ve learned to stay away for much of the time after we’ve lost.

It is like groundhog day. Each Premier League seasons they go into overdrive after having had to endure a successful season in the Championship where they had little to whinge about.

Those who don't like/want Parker will get louder, some of the players are moaned at each week (Laurent & Foster in particular) although the dumb comments after the Spurs game about Dubravka's age have gone silent now.

I honestly have no idea why some watch us. They could have watched 3 other games on their TV yesterday and maybe enjoyed one of them.

[Pickles]

Unfortunately there are posters who must be itching for a defeat so they can complain about something or other. I’ve learned to stay away for much of the time after we’ve lost.

There's definitely an element of that but when we're playing poorly and getting beat it's little wonder the conversation is about us playing poorly and getting beat.

[scamander]

Whilst I appreciate the 'free hit' motif there is the fact that we wil have to pick up points where we aren't expected to. Did I think we would get anything at home versus Liverpool? No.

Does it make it ok that we threw a point away due to pub football level error? Also no.

Villa were a good bellweather. They have got back on form (so let's not do the 'we are playing team X in a few weeks and they are on a bad run at the mo' thing - you play the team when you play them) but they had little time to prepare and those that had played midweek would have been a bit leggy.

But we lost. We need to think like a Prem team - it's incredibly difficult but we aren't playing Northwich Reserves every week. When we do have some advantage we really need to try and get something.

I didn't think we'd stay up this season because it's very difficult nowadays. But we have to nove away from the free hit exlectation because there aren't enough non-free hit games for us to get enough points from.

[Silkyskills1]

It is like groundhog day. Each Premier League seasons they go into overdrive after having had to endure a successful season in the Championship where they had little to whinge about.

Those who don't like/want Parker will get louder, some of the players are moaned at each week (Laurent & Foster in particular) although the dumb comments after the Spurs game about Dubravka's age have gone silent now.

I honestly have no idea why some watch us. They could have watched 3 other games on their TV yesterday and maybe enjoyed one of them.

Of course the points you've mentioned are likely to happen. What would you expect? Complaining seems.to have become a dirty word on here but I don't see what is wrong with passing a comment( complaining) if someone is not particularly happy with what they are seeing.

[Wile E Coyote]

Scott Parker is managing us on merit in this division, quite how fans that were beside themselves with glee last season , and singing his praises from the rooftops can now be deriding his tactics and suggesting "better " formations would sort us out is laughable. most on here realise how difficult it is to earn points a this level because of the size of our club. reading comments from pub players (at best), or those that have never kicked a football in anger in their lives suggesting ways Burnley can improve is beyond silly.

[Casper2]

It is like groundhog day. Each Premier League seasons they go into overdrive after having had to endure a successful season in the Championship where they had little to whinge about.

Those who don't like/want Parker will get louder, some of the players are moaned at each week (Laurent & Foster in particular) although the dumb comments after the Spurs game about Dubravka's age have gone silent now.

I honestly have no idea why some watch us. They could have watched 3 other games on their TV yesterday and maybe enjoyed one of them.

Still not as tedious as you moaning about fellow posters though.
Groundhog Day indeed.

[Goliath]

Scott Parker is managing us on merit in this division, quite how fans that were beside themselves with glee last season , and singing his praises from the rooftops can now be deriding his tactics and suggesting "better " formations would sort us out is laughable. most on here realise how difficult it is to earn points a this level because of the size of our club. reading comments from pub players (at best), or those that have never kicked a football in anger in their lives suggesting ways Burnley can improve is beyond silly.

You're right to a point but I think questioning such a huge tactical shift is pretty fair. We are playing basically a back 5 with 1 underlapping centre back, its a really unusual system which stinks of a manager overthinking it.

We had the same criticism of the drastic changes Kompany made, his was more in terms of personnel but Parkers is more tactical.

Watching us feels like we've lost psychologically against some of these bigger teams from minute 1. We are starting games on the back foot and never really look like we believe we can win. I think a lot of it is how we are setting up, it's basically accepting we are inferior before we've kicked a ball, it must be quite hard to have any confidence with that approach.

We have to go back to attacking teams. Play the 3 obvious central midfielders and have one of them covering Edwards defensive work down the right so he can 'cheat' a bit and stay high. If that doesn't work then we just have to accept we aren't good enough, there's no point inventing systems.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Still not as tedious as you moaning about fellow posters though.
Groundhog Day indeed.

Weird isn't it those who pollute the match threads while never at games are the first pairs of lips to start quivering when they feel criticised themselves.

Big enough to slate the players non stop but don't say anything about them.

[claretspice]

You certainly can't criticise the fact we've lost any of those five games, but in their own way they've all been something of a missed opportunity - no question we've had a hard start, but arguably the timing of our games against Liverpool, United Spurs and Villa before they've had a chance to get into gear has gave us an opportunity to get some bonus points on the board and unfortunately, we haven't taken them. Equally, whilst the point against Forest was a good point in a sense, we played them at a good time and didn't quite capitalise.

Against Forest, we were a bit too passive and defended too deep. It's clear that Parker wanted us to play far more aggressively in our pressing against Villa, but that was quite a dramatic shift and perhaps too much of one.

[Elizabeth]

You certainly can't criticise the fact we've lost any of those five games, but in their own way they've all been something of a missed opportunity - no question we've had a hard start, but arguably the timing of our games against Liverpool, United Spurs and Villa before they've had a chance to get into gear has gave us an opportunity to get some bonus points on the board and unfortunately, we haven't taken them. Equally, whilst the point against Forest was a good point in a sense, we played them at a good time and didn't quite capitalise.

Against Forest, we were a bit too passive and defended too deep. It's clear that Parker wanted us to play far more aggressively in our pressing against Villa, but that was quite a dramatic shift and perhaps too much of one.

Re: Timing
Liverpool had beaten 3 good sides in Bournemouth, Newcastle and Arsenal in their first 3 games before beating us.
Spurs were playing their first league game at home under their new top ranking manager who has gone on to take them to 3rd in the table.
Villa were unbeaten in 6 games winning their previous 3

I fail to see any evidence that we failed to take the opportunity to get the 'bonus points' against these 3 teams that you mention.

[bobinho]

Not really sure what point I’m making aside from the fact that we’re certainly consistent.

I’m not sure either, but it’s certainly better than whatever nonsense was meant in the OP…

[Darnhill Claret]

I like the way we are progressing each game. City was a setback,but not a total surprise. Parker has made several tactical and personnel changes, starting and on the bench. Like last season, match fitness has been an issue. I hoped we would beat S'land and get something from Forest and fingers crossed against Villa. I hope we can beat Leeds, Wolves and West Ham, but 5 points or better will move us up the table a little. Getting our midfielders on the pitch at the same time from the start, no first half yellows and less shirt tugging, will help us to turn the corner. Too soon to surrender.
Put those white flags away.

[scamander]

Re: Timing
Liverpool had beaten 3 good sides in Bournemouth, Newcastle and Arsenal in their first 3 games before beating us.
Spurs were playing their first league game at home under their new top ranking manager who has gone on to take them to 3rd in the table.
Villa were unbeaten in 6 games winning their previous 3

I fail to see any evidence that we failed to take the opportunity to get the 'bonus points' against these 3 teams that you mention.

To play devil's advocate here.

Spurs - they had played a final 3 days before and Frank was still getting them into his system with new players. Being at home may have added pressure.

Liverpool - I had heard that they had been winning but not playing that well. On the day they weren't as dominant in terms of scoreline and won because of a ridiculous mistake Hannibal made.

Villa - less time to prepare and having played midweek we had an advantage in that sense. Was going to be tough but find me away matches which won't be.

[Goliath]

To play devil's advocate here.

Spurs - they had played a final 3 days before and Frank was still getting them into his system with new players. Being at home may have added pressure.

Liverpool - I had heard that they had been winning but not playing that well. On the day they weren't as dominant in terms of scoreline and won because of a ridiculous mistake Hannibal made.

Villa - less time to prepare and having played midweek we had an advantage in that sense. Was going to be tough but find me away matches which won't be.

Is 8 days between games an advantage, especially when the previous game against city we hardly had the ball.
I'd argue we have absolutely no momentum for this reason, along with the horrible fixtures which hasn't allowed us to build up any momentum or belief.

The season starts now really. If we don't get results in the next 2 then I think we can fairly say we just aren't up to it.

[scamander]

Is 8 days between games an advantage, especially when the previous game against city we hardly had the ball.
I'd argue we have absolutely no momentum for this reason, along with the horrible fixtures which hasn't allowed us to build up any momentum or belief.

The season starts now really. If we don't get results in the next 2 then I think we can fairly say we just aren't up to it.

When you hear managers talk about midweek/weekend games they often reference how it leaves less chance for preparation. The context here is more about having time for particular tactical changes or styles to be drilled.I think physical demands will be a factor (mainly in terms of recovery) but perhaps more with a team having the chance to setup differently etc.

I'd counter myself by saying that pkaying that extra game midweek can lead to better form or similar. But at the time I think it fair to assume that us having all week versus Villa only a few sessions gave us an advantage. I suppose it's how tangible that advantage is (or was).

[jrgbfc]

Is 8 days between games an advantage, especially when the previous game against city we hardly had the ball.
I'd argue we have absolutely no momentum for this reason, along with the horrible fixtures which hasn't allowed us to build up any momentum or belief.

The season starts now really. If we don't get results in the next 2 then I think we can fairly say we just aren't up to it.

Maybe playing a strong team against Cardiff might have helped build a bit of momentum?

[scamander]

Maybe playing a strong team against Cardiff might have helped build a bit of momentum?

Good point - but what I think Parker hoped for was that giving these players a chance would benefit the squad. It would give players who haven't played some competitive minutes. It might also get a player into form which they could then use to break into the first team. Had, say, Broja nabbed a couple it could have been very good for us.

Obviously that didn't happen but I can't blame Parker for going for that option. I think he genuinely expected a much better performance from the team.

[Gp8419]

Biggest worry was Sunday it had a lot of inevitability about it! I struggled to watch it in the end even the goal didn’t even convey me of anything. I thought we was crap the whole game. Been good at home on the whole. But away from home we are nowhere near it.people go on about the Man Utd Game, they are tge worst Utd team for a long time and still score
3 and misses loads of other chances.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Biggest worry was Sunday it had a lot of inevitability about it! I struggled to watch it in the end even the goal didn’t even convey me of anything. I thought we was crap the whole game. Been good at home on the whole. But away from home we are nowhere near it.people go on about the Man Utd Game, they are tge worst Utd team for a long time and still score
3 and misses loads of other chances.

This is one of the issues we will have all season. People say Man Utd are crap which is fair compared to some previous versions of them but if you took each game this season and did a starting 11 using both sides how many of ours would feature in a combined 11 of those 2 teams.

There is a reason why every market for relegation as us as clear favourites to come 20th in this division. Even Wolves are odds on to beat us with some in the upcoming game.

Sunderland also failed to score against this worst Man Utd team.

[claretspice]

To play devil's advocate here.

Spurs - they had played a final 3 days before and Frank was still getting them into his system with new players. Being at home may have added pressure.

Liverpool - I had heard that they had been winning but not playing that well. On the day they weren't as dominant in terms of scoreline and won because of a ridiculous mistake Hannibal made.

Villa - less time to prepare and having played midweek we had an advantage in that sense. Was going to be tough but find me away matches which won't be.

The other point with Liverpool is that it was directly after an international break, which is often a better time to play the top sides (see Forest beating Liverpool in the equivalent fixture last season). Your points about Spurs and Villa are precisely what I had in mind.

Look, these games are not remotely easy. The league is not remotely easy. But to survive you have to get 35 points. That's hard in the first place but if you completely write off any game against top 8 sides (which United, Spurs and Villa arguably, but only arguably, are), or even just the away games against all those 8 and home and away against the top 4 - then you are writing off 12-16 games and making it a 26 game season or less. That makes it really, really hard. So we've got to set ourselves standards which reflect that.

Had we not started badly, we might have got points at Spurs and United. Had played with the bravery we showed against Villa in the game v Forest, we might have beaten them, as Sunderland did. Had we shown the discipline that we showed against Liverpool in the game v Villa, we might have got something from that goal. Had we been better from set pieces in all games, we'd have helped our cause.

Staying up this season (or any season) is a tall order. But we can't just think "well we've had a tough start, it is what it is" - we've had opportunities that we've just not quite been good enough to take and we've got to aspire to being good enough - just as Sunderland have done.

[ecc]

Weird isn't it those who pollute the match threads while never at games are the first pairs of lips to start quivering when they feel criticised themselves.

Big enough to slate the players non stop but don't say anything about them.

The match threads are something else.

[quoonbeatz]

Haven’t looked at a match thread in years on here. Good to hear they’re still the Mos Eisley of this forum.

[boatshed bill]

Look, these games are not remotely easy. The league is not remotely easy. But to survive you have to get 35 points. That's hard in the first place but if you completely write off any game against top 8 sides (which United, Spurs and Villa arguably, but only arguably, are), or even just the away games against all those 8 and home and away against the top 4 - then you are writing off 12-16 games and making it a 26 game season or less. That makes it really, really hard. So we've got to set ourselves standards which reflect that.


Staying up this season (or any season) is a tall order. But we can't just think "well we've had a tough start, it is what it is" - we've had opportunities that we've just not quite been good enough to take and we've got to aspire to being good enough - just as Sunderland have done.

Absolutely right.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Haven’t looked at a match thread in years on here. Good to hear they’re still the Mos Eisley of this forum.

the ones where we come from behind to win are priceless, sadly there aren't enough of them but they make for brilliant reading with the Monday morning coffee

[Elizabeth]

There has been a lot of discussion on what has and hasn't been a missed opportunity to get points in the first seven games, many against the top teams.. I made my point yesterday and in the meantime will wait until we get beat by teams in the middle of a slump. If that ever happens this season.
I may then agree that we have missed an opportunity to get points. Up to now nothing has convinced me we have missed any opportunities.