Trump's Ban

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bobinho
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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by bobinho » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:44 am

At last. Cheers colburn.

I'm not pro trump. But neither am I anti trump. Just see a bloke who's fed up with the status quo. The establishment has created this. Years of inaction where it's needed and an absolute refusal by those in power to deal with issues (supported by those who can't see the issues-or do but dare not speak it's name) that are in the minds of the people have us where we are.

Put your heads back in the sand. Make comments about Hitler's Germany. Suggest he's a prime candidate for assassination. Do anything. It attempt to see what he's trying to achieve on behalf of those that agree with him.

As an aside, The Germans I speak to (plenty) btw would love to get rid of merkels open door invite, but darent say anything noisily due to 70 years of war guilt. That doesn't make them wrong, nor does it make their argument irrelevant.

We live in dangerous times. Some people accept it, some don't. Some people try to combat it, others ignore it.
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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by USC » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:45 am

This thread is going to split along the lines of the Brexit threads; generally remainers will be appalled at this, Brexiters will support it. Brexiters, in general (like Trump and some of his supporters), see immigration as damaging to the country and Muslims as terrorists. And for them, it doesn't need to get more complicated than this ban.

And one of the reason I am relating this to Brexit is, as many said at the time, the Brexit position makes it difficult for the UK to speak out against prejudice such as this. We all saw May yesterday squirming away from questions and refusing to clearly condemn it as she knows the UK is in a weak position politically and economically and we can not afford to offend any country who will trade with us. In addition, May knows approx half of our electorate will likely agree with Trump's position!

With regards to the ban itself, anybody capable at looking at facts and rationale thought knows this is a purely political move, appeasing the far right and some of the base of Trump supporters. Will be interesting to see how this plays out in Congress, the courts and protests on the streets.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:56 am

I'd love to know what you think about the democratic decisions that led to Hitlers Germany Bobinho.

Thats the point I was making btw, its democratic decisions that lead to people like Hitler being in power and little things like "the will of the people".

That doesn't make them right.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Wile E Coyote » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:04 pm

bobinho wrote:He's trying to protect his country from terrorism. He's trying to prevent his country from becoming like ours.
Those of you who think "eastenders" is indicative of multicultural Britain need to wake up. The east end of London is like a foreign country. There are other areas too, some of them not too far away from us here in Burnley.

Anyone tried moving to Islamabad/Tehran/Jeddah, build a Christian church and build exclusively Christian communities in the suburbs? Think it could happen?

Everything is one way. People see it. People are concerned about it. People are fed up with it. And people are scared to say anything for fear of being tagged a racist.

Trump campaigned with that wall. He got the job and is going ahead with it. He campaigned on restricting immigration. He got the job, and he's going ahead with it. I understand it may be difficult for some of you to see a politician actually carrying out his pre election promises. We aren't used to it after all.
There might be a lot of genuinely well intentioned people who think of the world like one of those old coca cola ads, "I'ed like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony" the reality is tragically very different. There might be one or two places where councillors organise cosy little events with locals sharing cooking tips from differing cultures, looks good in the regional press. Behind this facade is hatred and mistrust. There are massive divisions both political and religious. Trump and his wall building might appear crass and backward, but it has huge support. Even if ineffective, it has struck a nerve, something is very wrong somewhere.
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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:10 pm

bobinho wrote:At last. Cheers colburn.

I'm not pro trump. But neither am I anti trump. Just see a bloke who's fed up with the status quo. The establishment has created this. Years of inaction where it's needed and an absolute refusal by those in power to deal with issues (supported by those who can't see the issues-or do but dare not speak it's name) that are in the minds of the people have us where we are.

Put your heads back in the sand. Make comments about Hitler's Germany. Suggest he's a prime candidate for assassination. Do anything. It attempt to see what he's trying to achieve on behalf of those that agree with him.

As an aside, The Germans I speak to (plenty) btw would love to get rid of merkels open door invite, but darent say anything noisily due to 70 years of war guilt. That doesn't make them wrong, nor does it make their argument irrelevant.

We live in dangerous times. Some people accept it, some don't. Some people try to combat it, others ignore it.
Agree with this 100%

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:19 pm

Yeah, we do live in dangerous times, and some people try to make it worse, and others (with possibly the best intentions) make it a hell of a lot worse.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by ClaretAndJew » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:29 pm

Ban humans from Earth. That will stop us from killing.

#VoteKodos2020

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Holmeclaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:00 pm

The majority of serial killers and mass shooters in the USA are white males. Ban the entry of all white men , from all countries where they can be found.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by USC » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:02 pm

TomBenderson wrote:Do you really believe that? Have you sat with some tiny coterie of like-minded friends repeating yourselves, distilling others' views and reducing them to the most oversimplified reading you can imagine until you get to this?

The percentage of people who voted for Brexit (not 'Brexiters' as though it were some sort of calling that excluded all other aspects of life) who "see Muslims as terrorists" is vanishingly small. Just like the percentage of the population who refuse to acknowledge that there is any problem whatsoever within Islam that's giving rise to terrorism. Sorry if that's a bit nuanced for you.
I like the way you redacted some of my statement for further effect! And no need to apologize for your "nuanced" statement, if that is what you consider it to be; I understand what you have written! I just find it a bit of shame that you can't see similarities between the rhetoric of the leave campaign and the immigration ban in the US. And as is evidenced by some of the contributions on this thread, I suspect there is some correlation between those who voted leave and those that support the US' actions.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by claretandy » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:02 pm

You won't hear this in the MSM but the countries on the list was proposed by the Obama administration.
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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by morpheus2 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:12 pm

claretandy wrote:You won't hear this in the MSM but the countries on the list was proposed by the Obama administration.
You have to provide citation for that or you will be ripped to shreddies..

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by USC » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:19 pm

claretandy wrote:You won't hear this in the MSM but the countries on the list was proposed by the Obama administration.
morpheus2 wrote:You have to provide citation for that or you will be ripped to shreddies..
I was wondering about that too. What "list" are you referring to. There are many lists which cite these countries in existence (arms embargoes, sanctioned countries, etc). Are you saying Obama proposed a list of countries whose citizen should be banned from US entry?

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by USC » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:35 pm

Yes Tom, I believe what I write. I believe there is an underlying current in the country, felt by many of the leave campaign that believe (and I will quote what I stated) "see immigration as damaging to the country and Muslims as terrorists". I am obviously not stating every single person who voted to leave believes this (for example, I am aware that some that voted leave stated they did so purely for economic reasons) but if one is to deny that a certain level of "hatred" was stirred up on this topic during the campaign, then I think you are denying reality.

You only have to look at threads on here (this thread, Brexit threads, discussions on the Munich attack, etc) as well as get out in the real world and talk to people to know that many people think (i) there is a link between Islam and terrorism and (ii) therefore banning Muslims will prevent, to some extent, terrorism. This obviously ignores the fact that the majority of people who are terrorized are in fact Muslim who need other countries' help. And one final loop back to Brexit parallels - it is no surprise that Farage is one of the few UK politicians supporting this action.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by claretandy » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:39 pm

USC wrote:I was wondering about that too. What "list" are you referring to. There are many lists which cite these countries in existence (arms embargoes, sanctioned countries, etc). Are you saying Obama proposed a list of countries whose citizen should be banned from US entry?
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/20 ... wn-policy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by USC » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:09 pm

Tom - I haven't changed any of my comments, I was explaining them. And you missed the important conjunction "there is a link between Islam and terrorism AND therefore banning Muslims will prevent, to some extent, terrorism".

There are many that believe such blanket bans are counter-productive: (i) used as propaganda by the organizations they are designed to prevent (ii) unfairly affect innocent people (e.g. high profile example: what is the benefit in preventing Mo Farah in returning to his home and children?) (iii) not effective (e.g. would not have prevented 9.11 or other attacks committed by nationals of other countries, or indeed US nationals) (iv) potentially illegal and unconstitutional.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Wile E Coyote » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:10 pm

people left european countries to fight for Isis, the communities they came from knew who they were.
These people fled from democratic states to back a barbaric regime who murdered thousands of innocents.
Many are now back amongst us, sheltered by the same people who knew their intentions.
If there are such issues with nationals of the UK, then it is small wonder Trump has initiated measures to prevent losing track of individuals entering the states and disappearing into the shadows. Clearly moslems are not affiliated to terror groups in the main, but the fact that the Islamic faith attracts people who commit acts of terror cannot be ignored by responsible leaders such as the American president.
It would be remiss of someone in his office to ignore the threat and do nothing.
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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by FCBurnley » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:12 pm

As a US citizen, could somebody please explain to me what was the main reason behind the Brexit decision ? I suspect immigration (lawful and unlawful) were major factors but maybe I am wrong.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Claretto » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:13 pm

Obama actually imposed an immigration ban on Iraqis for 6 months in 2011. I didn't hear the Facebook freedom fighters bitching back then...

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Claretto » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:45 pm

FCBurnley wrote:As a US citizen, could somebody please explain to me what was the main reason behind the Brexit decision ? I suspect immigration (lawful and unlawful) were major factors but maybe I am wrong.
Largely scaremongering over immigrants taking jobs, despite the fact that immigrants are net contributors rather than consumers of public services. Paradoxically, the areas with lowest immigration all voted LEAVE.

Also it was pledged that all the money that would be saved somehow would make its way to the woefully underfunded NHS, which remains to be seen and will probably never happen.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Damo » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:50 pm

There are people who voted in favour of Brexit, who did so solely because of immigration, who believe all Muslims are terrorists.

On the flip side, there are people who voted Remain, who consider everyone who voted for brexit to be racist idiots, and compare Trump to Adolf Hitler.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by NRC » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:02 pm

(Sigh). Even from here I can see that the free labor movement in the expanded EU is flawed if similar equity is not placed across other systems, such as social welfare and health benefits. It's fundamental economics of supply and demand. Of course labor (people) would flow to where benefit as a ratio to potential income was at the furthest point on the elasticity curve.

While painted as an immigrant argument it's actually an economic one purely based on system flaws. If you made all eco-social aspect equal you would not have the flow in the first place.......

...... except to make it equal the net outflow of wealth to make it equal is economic and political suicide.

In other words the EU should never have expended beyond being a trade zone.
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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by HatfieldClaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:14 pm

FCBurnley wrote:As a US citizen, could somebody please explain to me what was the main reason behind the Brexit decision ? I suspect immigration (lawful and unlawful) were major factors but maybe I am wrong.
I'm a Brexiteer but do not support Trump; I don't think his popularity, or otherwise, will be split along the referendum vote. Some Brexiteers just see it as a choice for the American people.

Some people voted Remain as they liked what they had with the EU. Some voted Remain because, although they didn't like the EU, they feared the alternative.

Some people voted Out because they have issues with one or more of immigration, sovereignty, EU dictating what we can or can't do, the single market preventing us forging our own trade deals, the thought of an EU army, all at great financial cost etc etc. I, amongst others, voted Out due to the overall picture as I saw it, as opposed to a single issue.

A bit like some people voting Trump because they liked him and/or feared HC and wanted change. Some voted HC because they feared Trump and/or wanted the status quo.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by FCBurnley » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:20 pm

HatfieldClaret wrote:I'm a Brexiteer but do not support Trump; I don't think his popularity, or otherwise, will be split along the referendum vote. Some Brexiteers just see it as a choice for the American people.

Some people voted Remain as they liked what they had with the EU. Some voted Remain because, although they didn't like the EU, they feared the alternative.

Some people voted Out because they have issues with one or more of immigration, sovereignty, EU dictating what we can or can't do, the single market preventing us forging our own trade deals, the thought of an EU army, all at great financial cost etc etc. I, amongst others, voted Out due to the overall picture as I saw it, as opposed to a single issue.

A bit like some people voting Trump because they liked him and/or feared HC and wanted change. Some voted HC because they feared Trump and/or wanted the status quo.
Sounds fair to me Hatfield. The one thing that has surprised me since moving to America is how different (legally) each state is. The USA is really not that different from the EU except perhaps the power The President has.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Clarets4me » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:36 pm

Holmeclaret wrote:The majority of serial killers and mass shooters in the USA are white males. Ban the entry of all white men , from all countries where they can be found.
Whilst accepting that American law enforcement is very far from perfect, it is an inconvenient fact for organisations like " Black lives matter ", that the majority of Black people murdered in the United States, are murdered by other Black people....

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Claretto » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:00 pm

Clarets4me wrote:Whilst accepting that American law enforcement is very far from perfect, it is an inconvenient fact for organisations like " Black lives matter ", that the majority of Black people murdered in the United States, are murdered by other Black people....
Regardless, it is clear that the US judiciary system is indeed racist, imposing harsher sentences on blacks for the same crimes. This has been well documented.
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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:32 pm

Course, it would be easy to accuse the left of comparing Trump to Hitler, rather than looking at the actual rise of Hitler and Trump, and noticing the rather startling similarities, especially in how they took control in the first place using democratic means.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Damo » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:09 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Course, it would be easy to accuse the left of comparing Trump to Hitler, rather than looking at the actual rise of Hitler and Trump, and noticing the rather startling similarities, especially in how they took control in the first place using democratic means.
See

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:23 pm

Claretto wrote:Largely scaremongering over immigrants taking jobs, despite the fact that immigrants are net contributors rather than consumers of public services. Paradoxically, the areas with lowest immigration all voted LEAVE.

Also it was pledged that all the money that would be saved somehow would make its way to the woefully underfunded NHS, which remains to be seen and will probably never happen.
3/10 - try harder.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:41 pm

Damo, I won't use the phrase used by IT in debates like this, but denying the evidence of the similarities between the rise of Trump and Hitler using democratic means you are ignoring the actual fact that they are there.

That doesn't mean I think Trump is the new hitler, or that he's going to eliminate the Muslim population of the US, but it does mean there are striking similarities in their rise to power.

Its a bit like arguing with Ringo, you've got your ideals and views and you stick to them, regardless of the evidence that is presented to you.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by grapidianclaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:46 pm

Trump claims to be a christian. Many of his supporters claim to be christian. People on here claim to be christian. See if you recognize this , and then ask yourselves, are you really christian? The same goes for the torture thread too.

The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

Footnotes:

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Claretto » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:50 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:3/10 - try harder.
No I'm fine thanks

I'm guessing you're one of the ones scared of a polish guy stealing your job? Should've stayed in school !

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Boberson » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:55 pm

To compare Trumps rise to power to Hitlers is stretching it just a tad, even by this message boards standards. Hitler wiped out his opposition by murdering them to take total power. Trump, as far as we know has done no such thing. But why let the facts get in the way?

And I'm not a Trump supporter by any means, but I am a supporter of democracy. He won the election by the terms it was run under. He has a mandate, people may not agree with his views but the American public made their choice. The thing I'd be most worried about if I was American is that out of nearly 320 Million people the 2 best candidates they could find were Trump and Clinton!

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by HatfieldClaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:59 pm

After a series of The Apprentice USA Donald Trump was undecided as to which of the last 3 finalists he should employ. So he set them a task to help him make his final decision.

He said to them all, "If you found a wallet on a seat in a cafe after seeing an old lady get up and leave, what would you do ?"

The first finalist said that she would ensure that the old lady's tab was paid, if not pay it herself. Then run after her and return her purse.

The second finalist said that she would have a look in the purse and see if there was much money in it. If so, run after the old lady and return the purse but suggest a finders fee.

The third finalist said that she would have a look in the purse, take the cash and then probably hand the purse to the waiter.

Which one got the job ?


The one with the blonde hair and big tits. Obviously.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:59 pm

No, again, you are not reading what I wrote, and you clearly don't know how Hitler became to be in charge in the first place.

There are striking similarities, and what is the point of learning anything from history if you just ignore it because he demonising a not very popular religion in the West?
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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by grapidianclaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:07 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:No, again, you are not reading what I wrote, and you clearly don't know how Hitler became to be in charge in the first place.

There are striking similarities, and what is the point of learning anything from history if you just ignore it because he demonising a not very popular religion in the West?
The reason that Trump opponents are comparing Trump to Hitler is that Trump is making it too easy.
Hitler came to power under the system of democracy the Weimar Republic had in place. He cemented his power with propaganda and false information.
He published a weekly paper documenting the crimes committed by Jews. Trump has committed to publishing a weekly list of crimes committed by illegal immigrants. If you can not see the comparisons between the 2 , then you are simply not looking.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Boberson » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:12 pm

You're accusing others of not reading what you're writing but you're doing the same. There's no SA or no SA at Trumps disposal to burn down congress (like Hitler arranged with the Reichstag - unless you actual believe it was communists) and put a state of emergency in place. Due to American constitution he won't be able to put anything in place like the enabling act which allowed Hitler to do as he pleased. Is he demonising a religion? Why didn't he ban and entries from Muslim countries if he this was the case. I don't understand his decision to build a wall or ban entries from certain countries, I don't agree with much he stands for, I don't think many sane people do. BUT, he addressing the publics fears and that's why he got elected. No other policitican offers any answers to what the public fear, in fact they won't even discuss it. Just because some people don't agree with him won't change a thing. He was elected. In a day and age where social media and the press prevent propaganda being peddled to the degree of Germany in the 1930's. So that's why he's not come to power like Hitler.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:17 pm

Nope, you don't get it.

My whole argument is based on the DEMOCRATIC means used by Hitler and used by Trump. There are striking similarities.

And how do you think Hitler started with the Jews? Killing them straight away? Did he hell!

Defend Trump by all means, but you cannot ignore the dangers if he continues like he's started this first week.

And how many times has he gone to congress for these measures? Not once, all executive orders.

Be afraid, be very afraid

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by grapidianclaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:22 pm

Boberson wrote:You're accusing others of not reading what you're writing but you're doing the same. There's no SA or no SA at Trumps disposal to burn down congress (like Hitler arranged with the Reichstag - unless you actual believe it was communists) and put a state of emergency in place. Due to American constitution he won't be able to put anything in place like the enabling act which allowed Hitler to do as he pleased. Is he demonising a religion? Why didn't he ban and entries from Muslim countries if he this was the case. I don't understand his decision to build a wall or ban entries from certain countries, I don't agree with much he stands for, I don't think many sane people do. BUT, he addressing the publics fears and that's why he got elected. No other policitican offers any answers to what the public fear, in fact they won't even discuss it. Just because some people don't agree with him won't change a thing. He was elected. In a day and age where social media and the press prevent propaganda being peddled to the degree of Germany in the 1930's. So that's why he's not come to power like Hitler.
Agreed, trump will not be able to burn down the Reichstag, but he has run on the same exploitation of fears. His ' Thousands of muslims dancing on the streets of New Jersey , on 9/11' line is just one of many.People compare because there are comparisons.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by grapidianclaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:23 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Nope, you don't get it.

My whole argument is based on the DEMOCRATIC means used by Hitler and used by Trump. There are striking similarities.

And how do you think Hitler started with the Jews? Killing them straight away? Did he hell!

Defend Trump by all means, but you cannot ignore the dangers if he continues like he's started this first week.

And how many times has he gone to congress for these measures? Not once, all executive orders.

Be afraid, be very afraid
The majority of Americans are.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Dom » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:46 pm

If he wanted to tackle radical Islam then he'd have gone after Saudi Arabia and its state sponsored terrorism. Western leaders appease the Saudi's because of money. While the Saudi's continue to push Wahhabism to it's people then they will continue to breed radicalised muslims.

Trumps ban is for show, he knows that zero terrorists that have attacked the US, have come from these countries and he knows it won't affect US business.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by ontario claret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:07 pm

I was looking for "Slipping and falling in the bathtub", but I didn't see it. Or Mr. Mustard with a pipe wrench in the bathroom.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Sidney1st » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:13 pm

There's some woman spouting off on my FB news feed about not being allowed in the US because she holds dual nationality.... British and Syrian.
Reading her post she admits she's got both passports, hasn't spoken to the US embassy to confirm if she can travel etc.
She was in such a rush to gain sympathy because she may have to cancel her family holiday to LA, an didn't think to actually check first......

Some people are just to stupid for words.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Dom » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:21 pm

Sidney1st wrote:There's some woman spouting off on my FB news feed about not being allowed in the US because she holds dual nationality.... British and Syrian.
Reading her post she admits she's got both passports, hasn't spoken to the US embassy to confirm if she can travel etc.
She was in such a rush to gain sympathy because she may have to cancel her family holiday to LA, an didn't think to actually check first......

Some people are just to stupid for words.
It's a blanket ban, she would have been denied entry, well that was the case but British citizens that hold dual nationality are exempt according to Boris Johnson who struck the agreement today.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by ontario claret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:28 pm

If I'm correct, what Trump actually announced was an extra level of vetting from those countries. 109 were rejected in the first. You can't just show up at US Customs anymore and declare that you're a refugee. Also, they interviewed an Iraqi officer on the outskirts of Mosul, and asked him his opinion. He said, "This goes against what we are fighting for." Really? You're fighting Daesh house-to-house just for the right to declare yourself a refugee? Bizarre, beyond words.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Sidney1st » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:36 pm

Dom wrote:It's a blanket ban, she would have been denied entry, well that was the case but British citizens that hold dual nationality are exempt according to Boris Johnson who struck the agreement today.
Fair enough, but as I said, she's admitted to not checking before making her post.

Just spotted Syria on the list and had her meltdown.

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Damo » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:02 pm

IMG_20170129_225923.jpg
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Well this is awkward :?

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Damo » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:07 pm

Dom wrote:It's a blanket ban, she would have been denied entry, well that was the case but British citizens that hold dual nationality are exempt according to Boris Johnson who struck the agreement today.
Attachments
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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:26 pm

"I have tremendous feeling for those suffering, the most tremendous feeling anybody has ever had, everybody says so"

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:45 pm

Damo wrote:
IMG_20170129_225923.jpg
Well this is awkward :?

It takes a special kind of gullible to believe everything Donald Trump tells you. And of course, as I pointed out before, misidentifying what the concerns are, and then attacking your misidentification of them isn't going to get you very far if you expect to be taken seriously. No one is concerned that Trump is banning refugees from any single country, only dishonest people who want to draw a false comparison between the lack of concern when Obama did it to one country, to this example of Trump doing it to seven countries, with the weakest of justifications, want you to think that.

Obama stopped the processing of Iraqi refugees for 6 months and didn't base the decision on religion at all (Iraqis could still go to America). That's not what Trump has done. Trump has banned all visa catergories for citizens from 7 nations and it absolutely is about religion. How do we know it's about religion? Well, we're informed by his promise to implement a 'Muslim ban' and this certainly would seem to be the beginnings of that, but that's not the reason we know that that's what this is about. We know it's about religion because when the ban ends he's saying that Christians from those countries will receive preference over Muslims. If this wasn't about religion then why would religion matter after the ban ends?

Obama held refugee processing of Iraqis for 6 months and it was uncontroversial because Obama never promised to ban all people of one religion from entering the US, nor was there a justified fear that Obama was the kind of President that would permanently refuse refugees. Trump certainly is the kind of person who would do that, and i don't think anyone really believes that in 90 days Syrian refugees will be able to seek refuge in America again. Do you?

I can understand why you might want to see hypocrisy here, because your hatred of the left is pretty well documented and although you claim not to be a fan of Trumps apparently you like him more than liberals, but there really isn't anything there for you. Not when you apply some critical thinking to it at least.
This user liked this post: Burnley Ace

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Re: Trump's Ban

Post by Damo » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:57 pm

"It takes a special kind of gullible to believe everything Donald Trump tells you"
Really? I'd say he is following up with pretty much everything he promised pre-election.
Your response to everything he says that doesn't follow your agenda of 'I don't believe him' doesn't really work either.
If this is about banning Muslims from the country, why are there just the 7 nationalities listed and why is he saying it's only for 3 months?
Saying I like Trump more than I like liberals means absolutely nothing.
I like Owen Coyle more than I like the cry arse left at the minute

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