Prison Service in Crisis

[martin_p]

Absolutely. May not be to you I understand that, but for others thsee would be luxuries.
( I see you left out the games consoles, free fags and pool table TV and sky)

Ask a homeless person...

Go to a food bank and ask how many users of it have access to a gym, free medical care ( doctors ) and 3 hot meals a day in a warm, lit environment with running hot water.

So let's increase their benefit payments then (or at least reverse the cuts!). And some people not having a roof over their head or food to eat doesn't make them luxuries.

[Healeywoodclaret]

Nope, think it's more to do with consistent underfunding but okay.

The hatchet people have gone into the prisons and in terms of staff trimmed down to the bare bones. Make no mistake these guards are doing a dangerous job dealing with unpredictably aggressive prisoners. There are ways in which these offenders can be occupied doing something useful, giving something back to society and hopefully getting themselves a little bit of self respect .

[Healeywoodclaret]

Put it one way it makes you wonder why people who are homeless or living under the poverty line, don't just commit a big crime.

Get caught and it's a slap on the wrist or a bit of jail.

Don't and you have a life of a king until the money runs out.

I'd certainly do it before sleeping under the stars!

Me too. I see plenty of homeless in Newcastle and I often think "look just get yourself banged up mate!" At least until the weather gets warmer!

[Healeywoodclaret]

So food, shelter, medical care and exercise are benefits?

Food shelter and medical care on not free of charge mate. As mentioned previously nobody puts free food on my table no body pays my fuel bills to keep warm in the winter. People have to put a few shifts in every week of the year to pay rent / mortgage. Is that so difficult for you to understand? Homeless people on our streets certainly WOULD consider food shelter and medical care benefits.

[Healeywoodclaret]

Would that help them reform though?

(I'm not saying it won't btw)

I mean, look at the US, they have a massive prison population and bloody awfully hard prison time, and it just isn't working

Of course the USA have a massive prison population. Rather bigger altogether than the UK. But for the size of our country with our prisons overcrowded we have a massive problem and radical changes need to be implemented. Help those who want to change the course of their lives lock the others up 23 hours a day without privileges.

[martin_p]

Food shelter and medical care on not free of charge mate. As mentioned previously nobody puts free food on my table no body pays my fuel bills to keep warm in the winter. People have to put a few shifts in every week of the year to pay rent / mortgage. Is that so difficult for you to understand? Homeless people on our streets certainly WOULD consider food shelter and medical care benefits.

So what are you suggesting? Some sort of cage open to the elements, no food and let them die?

If society decides to lock a person up it costs society money. Is that so difficult for you to understand?

[Firthy]

The people who run Prisons have no idea what staff have to put up with on a daily basis. They have fast track promotions to Governor Grade for high flying college types with qualifications who have never worked on the landings and are clueless

They believe the majority of prisoners want workshops and education. Most of them don't, they use classes and workshops as a way of getting out of their cells. They run their scams and drug dealing through them. They attend when they feel like it and it's an unbelievable pain in the butt for staff to get them to attend regularly.

Do gooders, the European courts and modern day working practices like health and safety, blame culture, policies and procedures, compensation culture, risk assessments etc have taken all the power away from the staff and given it to the prisoners.

[JohnMac]

It seems to be drugs that are the biggest problem and it beggars belief the amount that get into prisons.
People going on about drones etc but with liberal use of a 12 bore that would disappear.

There is no short term solution but it will get worse the longer we have Prisons run for profit.

[evensteadiereddie]

Just a thought but perhaps a bit of a blind eye is being turned towards the supply and use of drugs in prison because they have a calming effect on a number of prisoners and they actually help the system operate.
I think, as always, money and sensible forward-thinking, are the solution but neither will happen under the useless crock of **** of a government we have now.

[Healeywoodclaret]

So what are you suggesting? Some sort of cage open to the elements, no food and let them die?

If society decides to lock a person up it costs society money. Is that so difficult for you to understand?

What am I suggesting? Hmm. I'm suggesting that able bodied prisoners earn their keep! Comprehend?

[Colburn_Claret]

What am I suggesting? Hmm. I'm suggesting that able bodied prisoners earn their keep! Comprehend?

You're making a big presumption that prisoners want to earn their keep. If they enjoyed working for a living they probably wouldn't be inside in the first place.
I'm all for work and eduction for those that want it, and don't use it as an excuse for a change of scenery, but you can lead a donkey to water, but you can't make it drink.

[Healeywoodclaret]

You're making a big presumption that prisoners want to earn their keep. If they enjoyed working for a living they probably wouldn't be inside in the first place.
I'm all for work and eduction for those that want it, and don't use it as an excuse for a change of scenery, but you can lead a donkey to water, but you can't make it drink.

No i'm not making any such assumption. Sometimes I don't feel like going to work but I usually want to eat and know I must pay the mortgage. It's nothing to do with whether they want to work. If they want to eat they must work. No work no eat. It's that simple.

[Lancasterclaret]

So what happens if they still refuse to work (thats before anyone points out the potential legal implications of attempting to do such a policy)

[Holtyclaret]

Personally, everytime I hear of drugs in prisons it knocks me sick.

I've never spent any time in prison apart from the odd visit so have no real grounds to comment.

Whatever it takes - use of old navy ships for floating prisons, use of the army, use of the police etc etc have all been bandied around, but at all costs drugs should be kept out or control will never be re-taken.

A large percentage of criminals/repeat offenders would take drugs of some variety. If they were unavailable in jail a lot would be too scared to offend or will think twice before they do. I would think a big step in the right direction.

But whilst the prisons are looked after by private companies with a profit making agenda, the kitchen sink will never be thrown at it.

[Colburn_Claret]

It's odd, to me, that with the knowledge that there are so many drugs in prison, why the culprits aren't punished for it. If you are on for 5 years, and believe if you are caught with drugs you'll serve an EXTRA 10 years, the problem would practically vanish overnight. The same for anyone caught supplying a prisoner.
It all goes back to the same argument. They do it because the punishment for the crime is a joke.

[cricketfieldclarets]

To those saying we should just lock them up 24 hours a day, you really haven't thought about the bigger picture.

A small percentage of criminals are serving life and an even smaller percentage will actually serve life. So that means almost all prisoners will be released back into society at some point. So to not even try to educate these people would be foolish at best. Imagine being locked in a cell for years on end and then released into the normal world without any education or integration. The country would be a far worse place than it is now.

We at least need to offer the opportunity to educate and reform them. If they don't want to comply extend their sentence until they do. That way the people who want to reform and return to normality will, those who don't - won't!

You can't just release a dangerous animal (or any animal for that matter) from captivity back to the wild. And its the same concept.

Prisoners do get to see their families. And in most cases this is right. But they cant see them when they want or as often as they want. They accrue visits that increase with time served and good behavior. They have no civil liberties. They can't get up and go and do what they want when they want.

The main problem is punishment for crimes and punishment for misdemeanors once inside. Education and reform is an essential part of a successful system. The system is far from perfect at the moment, but mistreating prisoners is not the answer.

The only other option which some on here would probably be happy with is to permanently lock up any convict or anyone who has committed any crime. After all we wouldn't want the likes of Richard Branson roaming the streets, what have they ever contributed to society.

[Healeywoodclaret]

So what happens if they still refuse to work (thats before anyone points out the potential legal implications of attempting to do such a policy)

What happens if I refuse to work? I starve. Will all you lefties jump up and down and make sure someone puts their hands in their pockets and feeds me?

[martin_p]

What happens if I refuse to work? I starve. Will all you lefties jump up and down and make sure someone puts their hands in their pockets and feeds me?

Wouldn't it be cheaper just to put a bullet through their head if they refused to work?

[Healeywoodclaret]

To those saying we should just lock them up 24 hours a day, you really haven't thought about the bigger picture.

A small percentage of criminals are serving life and an even smaller percentage will actually serve life. So that means almost all prisoners will be released back into society at some point. So to not even try to educate these people would be foolish at best. Imagine being locked in a cell for years on end and then released into the normal world without any education or integration. The country would be a far worse place than it is now.

We at least need to offer the opportunity to educate and reform them. If they don't want to comply extend their sentence until they do. That way the people who want to reform and return to normality will, those who don't - won't!

You can't just release a dangerous animal (or any animal for that matter) from captivity back to the wild. And its the same concept.

Prisoners do get to see their families. And in most cases this is right. But they cant see them when they want or as often as they want. They accrue visits that increase with time served and good behavior. They have no civil liberties. They can't get up and go and do what they want when they want.

The main problem is punishment for crimes and punishment for misdemeanors once inside. Education and reform is an essential part of a successful system. The system is far from perfect at the moment, but mistreating prisoners is not the answer.

The only other option which some on here would probably be happy with is to permanently lock up any convict or anyone who has committed any crime. After all we wouldn't want the likes of Richard Branson roaming the streets, what have they ever contributed to society.

I agree with much of this. You talk about education of course they have already been through the education system and presumably didn't want to make the most of it. So they get offered a chance again but they have to have some inclination to change the course if their lives.

Some idiots on here are talking about mistreating prisoners. I've never suggested mistreating them. Is working for your keep being mistreated? I don't think so. Yes society decides to lock them up. It should be made clear to them that in return for board and lodgings they will be involved in some kind of community service such as fixing the roads. It would get them out instead of dossing around, give them an opportunity to give something back to society and a sense of self respect. Sorry you don't get nothing for nothing in this world. It's about give and take.

[SammyBoy]

What happens if I refuse to work? I starve. Will all you lefties jump up and down and make sure someone puts their hands in their pockets and feeds me?

Probably, which would be amusing as it would simultaneously keep you alive but also presumably make you incandescent with rage?

[Healeywoodclaret]

Wouldn't it be cheaper just to put a bullet through their head if they refused to work?

What a damn fine idea!

Seriously no able bodied person has the right to refuse to work and expect to get fed. You really are missing the point.