Flanagan and Boyd

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:30 pm

We should have played Ward and Lowton from the start - that would have made the difference I am sure.

Darwika did ok (just ok) and Flanagan was truly awful. Compare that to Ward and Lowton. Ward has been a rock all season and Lowton has been great at the Turf and especially good these last few games where he is making great runs forward and creating chances for himself and the team.

Look at the Spurs team today - back to almost their best eleven...and they have had (and still have) games in Europe to contend with.

Whats done is done and I am not over reacting like some fans to the defeat - given that this team is the best Burnley team in my lifetime and the performances this season have been outstanding.

However - Dyche made mistakes with his team selection yesterday in my view. We were already missing £30m plus of talent with Hendrick, Brady and Defour and from that point of view we needed to field as strong as a team as we could because this really was a great opportunity for the club and the fans.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:31 pm

I hope Flanagan has an alternative career to fall back on.
Boyd was poor on the day, but is generally a very dependable professional footballer, something we've not seen in Flanagan.

boiledclaret · Post by **boiledclaret** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:36 pm

Boyd got the plaudits last week for covering some ground and stopping some real quality that can play. This week the emphasis was on him creating and he came up with zilch.

I think that Boyd is a useful squad player who can come on and sure up games but at this level I'm not so sure about regular starter. I'd like to see a bit more quality and dare I say, pace, File under Arfield, basically.

As for Flanagan, a homegrown reserve LB would have been better, waste of the loan market as usual.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:10 pm

jlup1980 wrote:Playing Flanagan at left back is like asking someone to play snooker with one arm tied behind their back. The left side of the pitch becomes non existent. We lose all balance. It's hard to point the finger at the player when he's being asked to play in that position by a manager who's seen him put rank bad performances in there all season. I thought he was bad at Accy and against Bristol City. Today was something else though. How didn't Dyche see it and change it?! Ward should have been on at half time.

Since when were footballers so specialised? You sound like those pundits who witter on about how someone isn't really a nine and a half, he's more of a false nine, or a nine and a quarter, or whatever facile bilge is currently fashionable. To say that a player might be competent at right back but can't be expected to cope with a non-league side at left back is totally wrong. He might not be as good at left back, but he should be able to make a go of it. If he knows how to tackle a left winger, why can't he tackle a right winger? If he knows how to control a ball when the touchline's on his right, why can't he control the ball when the touchline;s on his left? If he can clear the ball with either foot when he's playing right back, why can't he clear the ball when he's playing left back?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:14 pm

dsr wrote:Since when were footballers so specialised? You sound like those pundits who witter on about how someone isn't really a nine and a half, he's more of a false nine, or a nine and a quarter, or whatever facile bilge is currently fashionable. To say that a player might be competent at right back but can't be expected to cope with a non-league side at left back is totally wrong. He might not be as good at left back, but he should be able to make a go of it. If he knows how to tackle a left winger, why can't he tackle a right winger? If he knows how to control a ball when the touchline's on his right, why can't he control the ball when the touchline;s on his left? If he can clear the ball with either foot when he's playing right back, why can't he clear the ball when he's playing left back?

I could sort of agree with the "he's on the wrong side" argument if he was opposed by a premier league winger, but come on!

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:21 pm

I feel the need to reiterate that John is a right back playing at left back, he's a simple soul who loves playing football, scouse kid living out his dreams ect.

Not for me though.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:44 pm

Dodobdobodobo wrote:Stop defending Boyd everyone! All he does is cover their fullback from getting forward. That's where all his running stats come from on top of the yardage he runs trying to get the the ball back after he has given it away. He is a wideman who offers absolutely nothing going forward. Shouldn't be getting a new contract. We need to improve his position.
Total agreement with Flanagan he has got to be shipped out immediately.

accidentally liked this ...twice somehow !!! totally diagree. Boyd is excellent player for us.

Row Z · Post by **Row Z** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:52 pm

I have been a big fan of George for a long time but the last few seasons he seems incapable of getting the ball under control and doing anything positive with it.

He's obviously got a shot on him and a great engine which has been invaluable to many of our defensive displays but where's the George gone who could run with the ball?

Wide areas are position we must strengthen this summer (Brady will be part of that) and I think that will only help Vokes' contribution. Since Trippier left he's had naff all service.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:05 pm

Row Z wrote:I have been a big fan of George for a long time but the last few seasons he seems incapable

Before ripping your inards from your torsoe, I'll give you a chance to save yourself.....

Go, prick go....

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:23 pm

Flanagan hasn't shown enough in the competitive games he's played to convince me he's worth putting in a bid for.
Boyd had a poor season last, up to the point where it looked like promotion was on the cards, he then found form and was fantastic for the remaining ten games or so. He was doing cruyff turns, beating three men at a time on more than one occasion, immense. This had me questioning: Was he bothered until realising he needed to impress Dyche enough to keep him on board for this season. I was hoping that he would carry that form into this season. I wanted to see him trying those cruyff turns and being immense, testing himself against the best in the prem. I appreciate his work off the ball, his ability to break up play before it becomes a threat, his support of Lowton when we're under pressure down the right, but I was hoping to see some of that offensive play he did so well in the final ten games of last season. Is it because he can't pull it off against the quality of player he's now facing, does he not have the confidence to try, is he spending all his game concentrating on his defensive work, does he not try it because he hasn't the confidence in the rest of the team to cover should it not come off and leave us exposed, is he under orders to keep it simple, prioritise the defensive aspects, sacrifice the offensive and not risk leaving us exposed, etc? I don't believe for one minute that Boyd is not a good player so I won't slate him, I'd just like to know why he's playing his game in the way he is.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:58 pm

Just seen in the LET the Lincoln manager say we were lobsided with Flanagan playing which meant they only had 65% of the pitch to defend. Can't really argue that assessment and in truth that can't be laid at Flanagans door that he didn't become left footed overnight. Dyche bizarrely gave us no threat at all down that flank. If Ward was carrying a knock, fair enough, but stick Mee in there, surely?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:49 pm

How many full backs have we ever had who could pick out their man when crossing the ball? Clue - his name was Trippier. No others that I remember. Mee certainly can't.

All a full back has to do is to aim for the penalty spot - goal area range and hope the centre forwards have got there. If Flanagan can't hit an area that size with his left foot, then why doesn't he practice a bit harder? The reason we didn't attack on the left flank wasn't because we had a right footed full back there, it was because that full back had a 'mare.

Alternatively, he could do what the wingers do. Cut inside and cross from 20 yards. He doesn't have to get to the goal line.

mrhungryone · Post by **mrhungryone** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:05 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:If Flannagan plays for Liverpool again in a meaningful game I will bare my ass in Woolworths.

He has been shocking against lowly League 2 Accy Stanley, relegation candidates in the championship Bristol City and Non League Lincoln City.

Have you been in a coma?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:57 am

I don't know what has happened to Flanagan but he looks absolutely nothing like the player he did a few years ago at Liverpool when he received an England call up. Injuries have crippled him IMO and he should probably retire from the game, he doesn't look physically up to it. His body cannot cope with playing football anymore, he's so weak physically and mentally.

As for Arfield, I can now see why the Huddersfield fans thought he was utter crap.

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:57 am

Some can say stats mean very little but this is pretty damning on Boyd in terms of attacking.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:06 am

Think there is a reason Boyd hasn't been offered a new deal yet.

Several players had shockers Saturday, and it is not impossible that any of the main culprits ( named on this thread ) Boyd , Darikwa, Arfield and Flanagan will be at the club next season, and if they are will be lucky to start many, if any games between them.

To be honest, I wouldn't be shocked or particularly bothered.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:57 pm

MACCA wrote:Think there is a reason Boyd hasn't been offered a new deal yet.

Several players had shockers Saturday, and it is not impossible that any of the main culprits ( named on this thread ) Boyd , Darikwa, Arfield and Flanagan will be at the club next season, and if they are will be lucky to start many, if any games between them.

To be honest, I wouldn't be shocked or particularly bothered.

Boyd and Arfield will be here, we're not going to dare stray that far from the 2013-15 framework.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:19 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:Boyd and Arfield will be here, we're not going to dare stray that far from the 2013-15 framework.

I am not so sure myself.
I am sure he will be looking for upgrades on both possibly that ones can be sold on if successful.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:53 pm

Problem is with some of these 'fringe' players is they dont get game time so dont fit in. Have to say though Flanagan looks very poor.

I know the Prem is priority but two games from Wembley surely we should have played our better (available) players. Instead we end up with one of the worst results in the clubs history.

Burnleyareback2 · Post by **Burnleyareback2** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:21 pm

All I could think of was using Ward for a bit more height, he had been ready to come on before they scored.

Flanagan has been poor, I was excited by this signing st the time.

Boyd, an off day, he has had some really strong performances recently

UpTheClaretsFCBK · Post by **UpTheClaretsFCBK** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:58 pm

I'm not a Boyd fan but he's turned a corner over the last 5 or 6 games. We need him in some games because of his defensive abilities.

100percentclaret · Post by **100percentclaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:19 pm

Diesel wrote:I feel the need to reiterate that John is a right back playing at left back, he's a simple soul who loves playing football, scouse kid living out his dreams ect.

Not for me though.

He's living out his worst nightmares from what I've seen of him.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:23 pm

And to think he took weeks on end deciding between us and Celtic.

100percentclaret · Post by **100percentclaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:33 pm

I remember the Boyd of Peterborough United. A flair player who could get you on the edge of your seat. He's had every ounce of that flair drilled out of him and is now judged on how far he runs in a game.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:41 pm

Absolutely spot on 100percentclaret.

He's not allowed to deviate from the manager's instructions which stifles all the creativity in him.

Post #61 asks some searching questions as to why Boyd has played with the handbrake on for so long, and I think the answer lies squarely with the manager.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:48 pm

Boyd and Arfield have made a massive contribution and still do. Yes they may miss a match or be subbed, However, they are key to our stability. Cannot understand why some dismiss these players after one team off day. Idiots perhaps.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:49 pm

Boyd has had a good season and ended last year really well.

He had a bad game on Saturday - just like the rest of the team.

He may have been a completely different type of player at Peterborough but so what ? So he was a flair player in a team that bounced about the bottom divisions.

He was a different player at Hull and then at Burnley he has enjoyed the most successful and rewarding part of his career.

I can't believe people are criticising Dyche and intimating he has ruined Boyd...when in fact it's the opposite.

If Boyd for one second thought Dyche was ruining his career or putting the handbrake on him why has he not left ?

100percentclaret · Post by **100percentclaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:26 pm

IanMcL wrote:Boyd and Arfield have made a massive contribution and still do. Yes they may miss a match or be subbed, However, they are key to our stability. Cannot understand why some dismiss these players after one team off day. Idiots perhaps.

My opinion on Boyd has been the same for quite a while now. It's not a knee jerk reaction from Saturday or even me being an idiot. I've got a problem with players being picked in attacking positions for how good they are defensively in that position. The fact they offer nothing going forward seems to be irrelevant.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:33 am

Burnleyareback2 wrote:All I could think of was using Ward for a bit more height, he had been ready to come on before they scored.

Flanagan has been poor, I was excited by this signing st the time.

Boyd, an off day, he has had some really strong performances recently

He's had some great defensive performances lately, you could count on one hand the number of good attacking games he has in a season.
At this level it's not good enough. You can almost understand and sympathise against Chelsea, but Lincoln.
I don't buy into we picked the wrong team. Whatever team we put out should have been good enough. Our game plan was awful, it played into Lincoln's hand, and too many under performed.

All too late to do anything about it now, but we have to learn for the future.

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:52 am

Boyd should be played when we are against a team vastly better then us like Chelsea, City etc. When we are facing a team we are equal to or better then he shouldn't as he offers nothing in terms of attacking.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:19 am

Blackrod wrote:Laughable. Gudmundsson is an excellent player.

To slow to catch a cold more like. Mid championship player at best

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:42 am

Gudmundsson has turned in some excellent performances when fit. Spec savers have some deals on at the moment and also there are some spare seats nearer the pitch.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:49 am

I honestly think we would have won if JBG hadn't been injured.
I think he's been fantastic for us this season, unfortunately he ain't having any luck.

taio · Post by **taio** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:51 am

Other than being unfortunate with injuries, Gudmundsson has done a good job since he arrived. He might not be the quickest but he makes up for that in other areas. I've enjoyed watching him and I think he will prove to be a very good signing. Saying he's mid Championship at best is baseless.

claretandblue · Post by **claretandblue** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:55 am

The level of commitment Boyd has shown for this football club has been outstanding. Reading some of these comments criticizing his performance/career with Burnley after one bad day at the office is rather sad. UTC

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:57 am

100percentclaret wrote:My opinion on Boyd has been the same for quite a while now. It's not a knee jerk reaction from Saturday or even me being an idiot. I've got a problem with players being picked in attacking positions for how good they are defensively in that position. The fact they offer nothing going forward seems to be irrelevant.

You've got a bit of a dated or idealistic view if you think that it's as simple as picking attacking players in attacking positions and defensive players in defensive positions. In almost every position players are expected to attack and defend.

Our league position relative to the ability level of our individual players suggests that Dyche has got this balance right. We are scoring enough goals at one end and conceding few enough at the other. Of course we could do a Bournemouth and litter the team with attacking flair players with little emphasis on their defensive responsibilities but then there's a good chance we will regularly leave ourselves needing to score 4 goals to win a game.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:06 am

100percentclaret wrote:I remember the Boyd of Peterborough United. A flair player who could get you on the edge of your seat. He's had every ounce of that flair drilled out of him and is now judged on how far he runs in a game.

Which is why I wont criticise him, I know he has the talent he's just had it sucked out of him playing in a defensive direct system.

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:18 am

Boyd and Arfield have been primarily used as part of a defensive formation this season and have coped reasonably well in most games

Given the level of opposition and possession that we had on Saturday, they both had the chance to show the attacking, flair side of their games

They both failed miserably once in the oppositions half - which is why the front men were not getting the service they needed

Both can track back and defend but neither has the pace and skill to go past their opposing full backs to put balls across into the pen area

We now have Brady to replace Arfield and hopefully someone like Alan Judge (if he recovers from his injury) to replace Boyd - I would also put JBG before either of them if we are going to take a more positive approach to games espec against other lower league teams

Macbowls · Post by **Macbowls** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:50 pm

In my opinion boyd wouldn't be offered a new contract he never beats a man most matches he runs about ten yards and passes to the nearest man and if watch him closely he putting is hair into place no assist and no goals

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:06 pm

dsr wrote:Since when were footballers so specialised? You sound like those pundits who witter on about how someone isn't really a nine and a half, he's more of a false nine, or a nine and a quarter, or whatever facile bilge is currently fashionable. To say that a player might be competent at right back but can't be expected to cope with a non-league side at left back is totally wrong. He might not be as good at left back, but he should be able to make a go of it. If he knows how to tackle a left winger, why can't he tackle a right winger? If he knows how to control a ball when the touchline's on his right, why can't he control the ball when the touchline;s on his left? If he can clear the ball with either foot when he's playing right back, why can't he clear the ball when he's playing left back?

I've been on holiday for a week so only just caught up with this thread.

My issue with him on the left is he's so blatantly dependant on his right foot he closes the left side down as an attacking outlet to us. When he plays at right back his natural body position when he gets the ball means that his passes are likely to go forward; so even if he doesn't necessarily create anything at least he's making the opposition think about him as an attacking outlet.

On the left side it's the opposite. He only ever controls the ball and then plays the ball backwards. He never runs with the ball or plays forward passes. He kills the game and as an opposing manager it would probably take me 5 minutes to work out that nullifying our right side effectively takes both of our flanks out of the game entirely. So simple to play against and completely infuriating against Lincoln. I still think we would have won that game with Ward at left back. That's how big an impact I believe Flanagan has.