Barnes, most wasteful?

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:10 pm

Would have been amazed had he not picked up a red this season so not going to slag him off for doing what Barnes does and seems instructed to do, should have been subbed off.
Attacking stats from last 4 weeks put him 2nd overall, given this should we be expecting more returns from him?

: barnes.jpg (128.09 KiB) Viewed 8275 times

Last 4 games returns
Siggurdson - 2 goals 2 Assists
Barnes - 1g 1a
Mane - 2g 0a (2 games played)
Lukaku - 4g 0a
Hernandez - 2g 0a
Denney - 3g 0a
Firmino - 2g 1a

Boyd gets stick for doing only part of what people consider his job so should we be expecting more from Barnes besides p*ssing of defenders.

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:13 pm

He was less effective today . Caught offside too much, struggling with final ball and two stupid cards. He's a four or five on rating today. Amazed he wasn't hooked instead of Gray

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:15 pm

I understand we all disagree on players but Ashley is the one player I don't like. He is a poor man's Dickov who also was a nasty cretin. I know it's a man's game but he is a ticking time bomb. Often think we end up getting less decisions because refs have clocked onto his antics.

Great point though

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:17 pm

1 goal and 1 assist from the last 4 games isn't bad, particularly when you're comparing with quality players such as those listed above. Barnes does a lot more than just **** off defenders and I think that he distracts opposition defenders a lot, allowing a little more time and space for those around him. He has been good this season so I hope people won't jump on his back after a bad performance and a red card. I think we need to be turning to last season's top scorer for more - he should have done better with that big chance presented today.

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:18 pm

No. I like Ashley. Every side has someone like him. Some have more.

But he can also have a good touch and be decent in front if goal.

Not today though. I'd have hooked him.for Sam with 20 to play

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:19 pm

I think we all know if we stay up that a better striker is a priority (and that's not a dig at Barnes because it isn't him I would replace first)

Duffer_ · Post by **Duffer_** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:20 pm

He's always on the edge and can have no complaints with the sending off today. However, he does get us up the pitch, whether it be his good first touch or tempting defenders into fouling him. He is not pretty but he is effective in our system.

UTC!

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:22 pm

IndigoLake wrote: I think we need to be turning to last season's top scorer for more - he should have done better with that big chance presented today.

My point is though people have accused Andre of being wasteful in front of goal and he's not even on that attacking table, which actually contains 23 players I just cropped it.

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:23 pm

Both strikers dont kno wot to do with the ball

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:23 pm

CombatClaret wrote:My point is though people have accused Andre of being wasteful in front of goal and he's not even on that attacking table, which actually contains 23 players I just cropped it.

I understand the point you're making, no problem there. But isn't being in that table a good sign? It means Barnes is creating chances for himself, or doing his best to make the most of him by getting shots in etc.

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:24 pm

If we stay up we really need to upgrade our forwards, Barnes can play but he looks completely frustrated all the time, prob cos he fouls too much and refs blow him up all the time. He goes up elbows first in nearly all his aerial challenges and looks like he enjoys elbowing defenders. Shame really as its got him a bad reputation.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:26 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:If we stay up we really need to upgrade our forwards, Barnes can play but he looks completely frustrated all the time, prob cos he fouls too much and refs blow him up all the time when he goes up elbows first in his aerial challenges.

Maybe we will shell out £30 million for Benteke!

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:27 pm

Steve1956 wrote:Maybe we will shell out £30 million for Benteke!

I wouldn't go that far lol

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:28 pm

IndigoLake wrote:But isn't being in that table a good sign?

Absolutely a good thing to be up there, but poor to get so little out of him from all those numbers, hence wasteful. Potentially the most wasteful player in the league.

Rodleydave · Post by **Rodleydave** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:29 pm

a sort of Premier league Matt Rhead

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:30 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:I wouldn't go that far lol

Precisely !

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:30 pm

absolute madness and costs us next week and could have this

expect hendrick to come in for him and go 5 midfield. he should have been brought off today.

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:32 pm

Steve1956 wrote:Precisely !

I rate Barnes but he really does need to sort his discipline out, there is a good player in there if channeled correctly, the coaches should be telling him to calm down and get some shots off rather than trying to take peoples heads off all the time.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:35 pm

He was kept on for his aerial strength, the same reason Tark was brought on. Considering they only really threatened from corners which we seem incapable of defending, it was the correct decision by Dyche. The pointless sending off was Barnes' fault.

UpTheClaretsFCBK · Post by **UpTheClaretsFCBK** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:38 pm

Not a Barnes fan at all. Spends more time trying to win free kicks than win headers. Okay, he's a handful for defenders but his qualities as a footballer are massively limited.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:45 pm

With Barnes on a yellow, surely bringing him off for vokes would have been the better option.

Happy with the point though

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:12 pm

Limited bruiser who shouldn't be starting PL games. Ok to throw on for the last 10 minutes.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:16 pm

According to the BBC:

"Only Liam Noble (six) has been sent off more times in English league football than since August 2011 than Ashley Barnes (five)."

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:22 pm

Those who criticise his football abilities are somewhat harsh. His touch is often first class and was today. He should hold the ball better than he does though rather than look for the foul every time. Refs and teams are wise to it.

If he channeled as much energy into being productive once he had it under control as he does looking for a foul or to make a foul he would be a top player.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:34 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:But he can also have a good touch and be decent in front if goal.

cricketfieldclarets wrote:His touch is often first class and was today.

I don't dislike the guy, he's always given 100% but what good is his first touch when he's simply not converting enough of the myriad of chances he has. There are so many strikes doing equally well with about 80% fewer chances.

If only we had the first touch of Barnes and the pace of Gray in one player...

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:55 pm

I dont disagree - he needs to focus on being more productive than being so much of a spoiler.

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:01 pm

Barnes is a permanent red card waiting to happen. One assumes his instructions are to "rough 'em up a bit". Problem is that this is the sum total of his game these days. He rarely has a shot on goal and refs are wise to his antics. If he scored a few then this modus operandi could be forgiven. But he doesn't. He could quite easily have cost us a point today.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:02 pm

I like Barnes but he made the three most blatent fouls you could see on the first three minutes of the game today.

Set the tone for the rest of the game.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:26 pm

Morgan wrote:He rarely has a shot on goal

But that's not true is it?

claretgimmer · Post by **claretgimmer** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:47 pm

Barnes has a dark side no doubt but it serves us well when he is subtle in it`s use, he upsets defenders and disrupts their rhythm, something unfortunately Sam doesn`t do, he`s to nice, and sometimes it`s up to other player ie Gray to take more advantage of this, the fact we don`t is down to others. As for the myriad of chances that apparently come his way I must be missing plenty, when he gets decent service from the wide men he is as good as anything we have at finishing them off Spurs away, Palace home great examples, also in championship season. Yes could at times be better but who in any team couldn`t, maybe now with Brady he might get a bit more of that hopefully. For me he is still our best option up front to hold the ball up and he gets a lot of stick in doing it so maybe his dark side is his form of levelling the playing field.

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:48 pm

IndigoLake wrote:But that's not true is it?

Well according to Premier League stats website, in 17 apps this season, he's had 27 shots ie about one and a a half a game, and 14 on target, ie less than one per game.

So no, actually, it is true.

ten bellies · Post by **ten bellies** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:49 pm

I love Ashley's aggression. We need an edge and he has it.

LawsCanalJump · Post by **LawsCanalJump** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:57 pm

I'm sick of him trying to make the ref think he is being fouled every ball forward, very boring

lakesclaret · Post by **lakesclaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:05 pm

He does what he does I guess ,though he's slow not very mobile a cheat,can't seem to hold the ball up and is no more than a moderate finisher.He shouldn't be anywhere near the prem but while he's in claret I'll back him 100%

nonayclaret · Post by **nonayclaret** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:02 am

How quickly some posters forget his superb quality goal against Crystal Palace at home and the extra 2 points that got us.
He is one of our top players, and one of the reasons we will stop up this time.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:28 am

I do wish sometimes that he would rein it in a little but he is what he is. And that has been pretty good for us up to press.

It's not the putting himself about or trying to 'win' free kicks, it's the hen pecking of the referee that I would like to see reined in a little.

Morgan wrote:Barnes is a permanent red card waiting to happen. One assumes his instructions are to "rough 'em up a bit". Problem is that this is the sum total of his game these days. He rarely has a shot on goal and refs are wise to his antics. If he scored a few then this modus operandi could be forgiven. But he doesn't. He could quite easily have cost us a point today.

(Your) Location - Not Burnley

We know and we're glad about that.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:30 am

nonayclaret wrote:How quickly some posters forget his superb quality goal against Crystal Palace at home and the extra 2 points that got us.
He is one of our top players, and one of the reasons we will stop up this time.

In fairness that was almost 4 months ago. He has since scored three more, 2 of which were penalties.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:31 am

nonayclaret wrote:How quickly some posters forget his superb quality goal against Crystal Palace at home and the extra 2 points that got us.
He is one of our top players, and one of the reasons we will stop up this time.

Just what I was thinking. People have been singing his praises this season and he gets sent off and suddenly all he can do is resort to being a thug, apparently

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:21 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:

(Your) Location - Not Burnley

We know and we're glad about that.

How nice. Another anonymous keyboard warrior who resorts to unpleasantries if someone has a differing opinion.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:26 am

Aye, and that differing opinion is usually negative.

How is the weather in not Burnley this morning?

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:28 am

CombatClaret wrote:Would have been amazed had he not picked up a red this season so not going to slag him off for doing what Barnes does and seems instructed to do, should have been subbed off.
Attacking stats from last 4 weeks put him 2nd overall, given this should we be expecting more returns from him?

barnes.jpg
Last 4 games returns
Siggurdson - 2 goals 2 Assists
Barnes - 1g 1a
Mane - 2g 0a (2 games played)
Lukaku - 4g 0a
Hernandez - 2g 0a
Denney - 3g 0a
Firmino - 2g 1a

Boyd gets stick for doing only part of what people consider his job so should we be expecting more from Barnes besides p*ssing of defenders.

2nd overall based on what?
Considering it's my job to understand stats & tables I'm a little worried that I can't understand how it's been calculated that he's second

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:17 am

Morgan wrote:How nice. Another anonymous keyboard warrior who resorts to unpleasantries if someone has a differing opinion.

I wouldnt worry. I think BOT is going through a midlife crisis. It is the only explanation for his recent inane ramblings!

oswyclaret · Post by **oswyclaret** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:26 am

Would you have rather sacked barnes off and used vokes,or are you not happy at our league position at present.

FFS some folk are never happy and get greedy and want that extra bit more!

Awesome point at Hull yesterday,lets keep it going.

Onwards and upwards!

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:30 am

he's a good wrestler, needs some coaching from a striker who has been there and done it. A striker coach like Andy Cole/Owen/Shearer would help, because while Barnes' first touch is good, his build up play is ok but he offers absolutely no goalscoring threat really. Some say you either have that ''knack'' or you don't, I'm sure it can be coached. His movement in the box isn't good enough.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:32 am

oswyclaret wrote:Would you have rather sacked barnes off and used vokes,or are you not happy at our league position at present.

FFS some folk are never happy and get greedy and want that extra bit more!

Awesome point at Hull yesterday,lets keep it going.

Onwards and upwards!

That's life, I'm one of those people.
While I'm happy with where we are, I want more and more and more progress.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:35 am

I'm a massive fan of our Ashley. He can be very awkward for defenders to handle, and it isn't any place for pussies. I think that most prem defenders are far more subtle than him when it comes to the dark arts, which is why referees target him. I wouldn't call him nasty at all, it's just the game has changed. If he was playing in the 60's or 70's he wouldn't even get a booking.
On the plus side, he is still far better with the ball at his feet than Sam, and plays far better passes and link play with those around him. He also is a lot better at holding the ball up and getting a shot off.
Do we need better going forward, probably yes, but then you can say the same about practically every player in the squad. For now I'm more than happy that he's ours.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:22 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:2nd overall based on what?
Considering it's my job to understand stats & tables I'm a little worried that I can't understand how it's been calculated that he's second

Based on the table I included which amalgamates the various stats, I don't know how each is weighted, he's certainly 2nd or tied 2nd for several.
Credit to FantasyFootballScout.com who compiled the table and have a good record of being factually accurate.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:35 pm

Crap decision for Barnes first yellow, he certainly didn't charge at the ref! Second was a defo yellow. Ref seemed to want to penalise him at every opportunity!

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:54 am

I really don't give a toss about the stats concerning Barnes. Barnes puts the fear of God into the opposition back 4 and he makes far more impact on a games than Vokes ever does.

Barnes and Gray up top for me every week

Grimsby Claret · Post by **Grimsby Claret** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:57 am

Barnes Makes Joey look a saint.