Will Swansea be Barton's last game for us

[Chester Perry]

Hearing set for 2nd week of March - a lengthy Ban could put an end to his career - here's hoping not - but as we know the FA like to set "disproportionate" examples with certain kinds of players

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... an-9915920" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[cricketfieldclarets]

Dont think the Sutton players case will help Joeys cause. But given the ban for Gray, I would expect less than four games.

Worse case scenario he cost us nothing, won us the game against Sunderland and played a vital part in two draws since. Particularly given in those two games we were down to the bare bones in midfield.

With Hendrick back and hopefully defour we are in a reasonable position.

If needs be we could maybe call ONeill back if we are desperately short.

[Chester Perry]

Dont think the Sutton players case will help Joeys cause. But given the ban for Gray, I would expect less than four games.

Worse case scenario he cost us nothing, won us the game against Sunderland and played a vital part in two draws since. Particularly given in those two games we were down to the bare bones in midfield.

With Hendrick back and hopefully defour we are in a reasonable position.

If needs be we could maybe call ONeill back if we are desperately short.

Not sure it is possible to bring O'Neill back

[FactualFrank]

It's a 1-2 game ban. Nothing more.

[Chester Perry]

It's a 1-2 game ban. Nothing more.

There will be outrage in many quarters if that is the case - I have a bad feeling

[cricketfieldclarets]

It's a 1-2 game ban. Nothing more.

How much you betting?

[FactualFrank]

There will be outrage in many quarters if that is the case - I have a bad feeling

I hope you're wrong pal. Here's hoping eh!

[Chester Perry]

looks like a sweepstake opportunity for -
the number of games he will be banned and/or size of fine
which pundits choose to exercise moral outrage
what ban threshold will drive messageboards into meltdown as not enough/too much


equally they will be a bingo opportunity for the faux outrage / over dramatization in the press

[KefkaClaret]

I think people are here are downplaying this a bit. It's going to be a massive ban, Townsend got 4 months, 3 suspended for just a couple. Barton has made over 1000. At minimum I'm expecting a 6 month ban.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Guessing they will want to make an example of Barton.

Although must be other players who have made similar bets.

[Grimsdale]

Martin Demichelis got fined £22,000 (no ban) for betting on 29 matches last year, so without knowing the ins and outs of what games Barton placed his bets on and when, it could be anything from a fine to a potential career-ending ban.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Demichelis also plays for a 'big club' let's not forget!

[TheOriginalLongsider]

I'm expecting a massive career ending ban. It's certainly not going to be a few games. He's not just bet on the odd match - he's done it on a huge scale.

[arise_sir_charge]

I'm expecting a massive career ending ban. It's certainly not going to be a few games. He's not just bet on the odd match - he's done it on a huge scale.

Has he though? 1260 bets could be 10 each way Lucky 63 bets. That's not a huge scale.

A lot will depend on what the bets are.

[Devils_Advocate]

equally they will be a bingo opportunity for the faux outrage / over dramatization in the press

If you want faux outrage and over dramatisation look no further than this boards reaction to any reasonable size ban and the media's coverage of it.

[Barnesy86]

Somewhere between 6 to 10 games.

[taio]

It's impossible to know without the detail, but I'm expecting a significant ban - hope I'm wrong.

[claretspice]

Lets be honest, noone has a clue, do they?

If he gets a long ban, it probably won't be issued on the day of the hearing. And in any event it will be open for Joey to appeal, which would delay it further.

[bobinho]

1260 bets over how long? 10+ years??

Hardly colossal is it.

Anything over 6 games will be disappointing.

[randomclaret2]

Could we not run a sweep on the length of ban, with winnings going to the Youth foundation ? ( Joey not allowed to enter obviously )

[nil_desperandum]

Spice is absolutely correct.
Bizarrely, a long ban could work in our favour. He would almost certainly have to accept (e.g.) a 4 match ban, but If he appeals a longer ban on grounds of it being disproportionate, career threatening, restrictive, inconsistent with previous punishments, etc., etc., a good legal team could probably string it out for months, and this would get us to the end of the season.

[taio]

Of course nobody has a clue, which is a good reason why people are more likely to discuss the possibilities of his punishment.

[Blackrod]

They will try and make an example just because it's Barton. It will need explaining exactly what these bets are for example accumulators. As said above unless it's reasonable I expect his legal team will appeal immediately. It's hardly reasonable to end his career.

[Spijed]

They will try and make an example just because it's Barton.

They are still bound by the law and as such can only base their punishments on previous cases, rather than the individual. If they did he would be able to take the FA to court and in all likelihood win.

[taio]

They are still bound by the law and as such can only base their punishments on previous cases, rather than the individual. If they did he would be able to take the FA to court and in all likelihood win.

What's the law got to do with it because of course he hasn't done anything unlawful on this?

[Ric_C]

What was the 1 match ban for that he got at Rangers? Wasn't that to do with betting? If so hasn't that that got to be taken into consideration?

[ClaretFelix]

I thought it was 1000+bets over 10 years but the ruling only came in in 2014? If that's the case the ones made before this must be disregarded surely?
I stand to be corrected though, just thought I'd read it somewhere

[cutsy123]

Has he though? 1260 bets could be 10 each way Lucky 63 bets. That's not a huge scale.

A lot will depend on what the bets are.

Correct

It could be a big fine and sat no more. I dont think the FA given his age would end someones career

[Spijed]

What's the law got to do with it because of course he hasn't done anything unlawful on this?

They can't give him any ban they like though because it's Barton.

Just because the law hasn't been broken doesn't mean it can't end up in the courts.

[Claretforever]

I thought it was 1000+bets over 10 years but the ruling only came in in 2014? If that's the case the ones made before this must be disregarded surely?
I stand to be corrected though, just thought I'd read it somewhere

This is the thing; nobody knows what he's done wrong yet. Yes he's admitting making the bets, but that doesn't mean he's admitting breaking rules. I'm not saying he hasn't of course, and there must be something in it, but 8 of those years he was allowed to make whatever bets he wanted, but just not on competitions involving the club he's involved with.

The wording is unclear in the rules as to whether that meant the English League, or just the division he played in, so perhaps that's a defence for him? It could be he's found guilty and punished with a small ban because there were 'only' a small number of bets which broke any rules.

No one knows, but I'll be very surprised if it's only 1-2 games as someone has mentioned above. I have a feeling it might end his season at the very least.

[LoveCurryPies]

I'm expecting 6 to 10 game ban and large fine because of the sheer number of bets.

[Colburn_Claret]

Hopefully not but when it comes to it the FA + Burnley + Barton = a massive kick in the teeth X 5. They do love to **** on us, wether it's our fault or not.

On a positive note, we do need to learn to play without Joey. He isn't the greatest midfielder we have, but is so important to how the team play. He gives a solidity and fight to the team that is far beyond his abilities, and without him we can sometimes look rudderless. Someone needs to fill his boots, but I couldn't pick out anyone from the present squad.

[IWOODLOVETT]

Barton is a leader. His strengths are in organising, encouraging, battling and in recognising dangerous situations. Our results and fighting spirit improved immediately he returned to the side.

We don't have a single individual that can cover these qualities of leadership - especially in the abscence of Marney. We will miss Barton and we need to get the points on the board before he goes on his holidays.

[Woodleyclaret]

Whatever the outcome Joey should be offered a new deal that includes a coaching role.His passion for the game and playing for us has been superb

[Walt]

The appeal process is a good point. He either gets a relatively short ban which he's almost certainly going to accept. Or he gets hammered, appeals and we'll get more games out of him until it's finalised.

So in either scenario I'd say we're likely to see him available for approx half our remaining games.

[Hipper]

There was an article on betting and football after the Sutton goalkeeper incident:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... united-pie" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Incidentally, were the television people partly to blames as well? When I saw it live I thought the producers were being a bit insensitive - fat bloke eating a pie - although it was amusing. Of course I had no idea about the background to it but it could have been just a bit of fun.

[bob-the-scutter]

They will try and make an example just because it's Barton. It will need explaining exactly what these bets are for example accumulators. As said above unless it's reasonable I expect his legal team will appeal immediately. It's hardly reasonable to end his career.

He`ll be with us for a few more games yet i`m sure. They can`t legally take his career from him because technically (& legally) he`s done nothing wrong, he could take his own action against any heavy-handed punishment and also drop a few names into the hat because it`s something which is rife in the game and more often than not will be turned a blind eye to!
Given the FAs run by idiots, who really knows what they`ll try to do to him.

[Burnley Ace]

The Sutton goalkeeper coluded with a betting company to deliberately do something that would affect the bet the equiv would be for Barton to get himself sent off having been asked to do so by the bookies - it's not the same as doing a few accirs on European football games.

[Vegas Claret]

if he gets anything excessive he will appeal and that could potentially free him up for a few games. I doubt very much Joey will take anything from the FA lying down should it be an unfair punishment

[Chester Perry]

if he gets anything excessive he will appeal and that could potentially free him up for a few games. I doubt very much Joey will take anything from the FA lying down should it be an unfair punishment

The club however are a bit meek and mild on these things - very old school FA Blazers attitudes in our boardroom on these things

[Vegas Claret]

yeah bit this isn't club related, this is personal for Joey - up to him to do what he deems fit

[Chester Perry]

but as with Gray it is the club that gets the most severe punishment

[Royboyclaret]

Frustrating as it is for the club, there's very little to offer in his defence.

Barton has blatantly broken the rules and has admitted the charge. The only disappointment he might have is that the confidentiality clause in any online betting account has clearly been ignored but in no way will that affect any punishment coming his way.

[Rileybobs]

We don't know how many bets were placed since the rules came into place. We also don't know how many, if any, of the bets he placed were whilst he was playing in Scotland, or whilst he was a free agent. In all those cases surely those bets would not be contribute to any punishment.

[Royboyclaret]

Was it not 1,260 bets over the last ten years?

Prior to 2014 bets were permissable on events not directly involving his team and you'd suspect the majority of the bets would fall within that category. One thing that is nonsense though is the suggestion that one yankee or accumulator will constitute several bets. Each bet placed will be one transaction only.

We can only hope that he is looked on leniently but it's really difficult to predict with so few precedents.

[martin_p]

but as with Gray it is the club that gets the most severe punishment

But unlike Gray the club signed Barton with full knowledge of the likely charge.

[ClaretTony]

Lets be honest, noone has a clue, do they?

If he gets a long ban, it probably won't be issued on the day of the hearing. And in any event it will be open for Joey to appeal, which would delay it further.

I don't think it will be open to any appeal - he's already admitted the charges and I think the decision, which I expect will be issued on the day, will be final.

I don't have a clue but - I can't believe I've read on this thread a comparison with the Gray ban and I don't believe it will be one or two matches, neither do I think it will be career ending. We'll have 11 games left after Swansea, maybe the ban will be something around that number. But I do expect him to be able to continue next season even if his 2016/17 season is brought to an end.

[Chester Perry]

Tony I haven't compared with Gray ban - I was highlighting that any action banning the player has a greater impact on the club who were not the employer at the time of the offending incident (Barton employed by us for 1 of the 10 years the bets occurred) - thought that was obvious

[dsr]

The Sutton goalkeeper coluded with a betting company to deliberately do something that would affect the bet the equiv would be for Barton to get himself sent off having been asked to do so by the bookies - it's not the same as doing a few accirs on European football games.

I've never seen any suggestion that the goalkeeper colluded with a bookie. Nor does the suggestion make sense - the bookie lost money because of the pie.

The goalkeeper was the only man in the farce who (probably) did nothing at all wrong, apart from make the club allegedly look tinpot. The bookie was offering dodgy bets; I wouldn't be surprised if some players placed bets contrary to FA rules. But none of that can possibly affect the goalie's legal right to eat a pie - unless the FA is trying to make out that eating a pie is contrary to rules because it meant that someone won a bet. In which case, what do they do about bets where people bet on Harry Kane to score, and he does? Hasn't he influenced the result of a bet there?

As for Barton, as long as he hasn't been stupid enough to bet on a game he is involved in, I don't think his ban will go past the end of this season. As I understand it from the very few hints that have come from credible sources (ie. Dyche and Barton), the number of bets is highly exaggerated by accumulators - a £10 accumulator on 3 matches once a week in season would account for 1,300 matches over 10 years, which is what he's been charged with. I'm not saying he did that, just that he might have. On the other hand, he may have been putting thousands on his own club's matches every week - but that's wildly improbable because the bookie wouldn't have let him have an account for 10 years in that case. He must surely, on balance, have been losing money, which has to be a point in his favour.

Proportionality has to come in to the sentence. Imagine two bets placed today - one placed by a player of Manchester United, one placed by a player of Colne FC, both on the result of the League Cup Final. They both fall foul of exactly the same rule - but you can be sure that the Man United player would get a vastly more serious penalty than the Colne man, for obvious reasons.

[Royboyclaret]

Trying to remember the circumstances of the Rob Heys situation at Stanley where some of the bets he placed were on Accrington to lose.

If Barton was involved in something similar, then any sympathy I have for him will quickly evaporate.

On the other hand if they are say bets on Euro matches or Champions League then it's a different matter and you'd have to conclude he's been hung out to dry for simply being 'Joey Barton' and doing something which scores of other footballers will also be involved in.