Why can't we win away?

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:58 pm

Home form great low possession but still win. Some amazing performances.

What's the difference away from home? Imagine SD has hired you to help with the away form. What would you say to him?

I honestly have no idea, and I am a tactical genius on footy manager. What is the problem?

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:00 pm

The cricket field stands fans....twelth man

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:00 pm

Strangely two years ago we won 3 and drew 5 away, yet only won 4 at home.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:01 pm

Whatever it's, it affects a lot of teams similarly.

I've no idea what it is though, some psychological thing I'd guess.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:03 pm

It cannot be down to one stand surely. The away support we provide is amazing. I didn't go hull but could hear the fans here in Leeds.

I'm really clueless with this

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:04 pm

Too obsessed with keeping the shape. Nobody ever steps out to receive the ball outside of their position on the pitch and as a result it's just a continuous cycle of hoofing and defending.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:06 pm

Inchy wrote:It cannot be down to one stand surely. The away support we provide is amazing. I didn't go hull but could hear the fans here in Leeds.

I'm really clueless with this

I think Steve was jesting, inchy.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:08 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Too obsessed with keeping the shape. Nobody ever steps out to receive the ball outside of their position on the pitch and as a result it's just a continuous cycle of hoofing and defending.

Absolutely bang on. It's down to tactics and mentality.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:10 pm

I know but I think some people actually believe that

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:11 pm

Psychology?

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:11 pm

A better quality of opposition this season over last, also, our most creative players in the midfield(Defour and JBG) have been in and out of the team. Away from home, that is killing us.

Liverpool next is a free hit; anything we get is a bonus. The game at the Stadium of Light probably represents our best chance of an away win in the rest of the campaign. Hopefully our midfield will be at its strongest by the time we play them.
Another nine points from the remaining matches will as good as guarantee our safety, whatever happens elsewhere. We should get those in the games left to us.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:12 pm

We set up to ridged and not brave enough to give it ago
I would rather see us go gun ho than stare down the barrel of a gun every game surly giving it large would fetch us a result somewhere
Its not working the way we are doing it that's for sure and we need to get something soon

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:13 pm

Clement's pre-match comment, basically: "we know Burnley will lump it" or words to that effect.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:16 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Clement's pre-match comment, basically: "we know Burnley will lump it" or words to that effect.

Which to me = we're predictable.

Dyche is learning and he's doing well, but he hasn't really learned anything this season when we're away from home.

Enola Gay · Post by **Enola Gay** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:17 pm

As has been said there's a horrible timidity to our play away from home.

It was frightening the number of times Gray or Vokes would have won the ball up top, looked wide for an option and seen only a yawning gap, with Boyd/Brady hiding inside and Ward/Lowton dithering 20-30 yards back.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:20 pm

Boatshed Bill nailed it for me. Home manager just have to worry about his team. He doesn't have to overload his players about the numerous ways we may play in different areas of the pitch. They know possesion is a dirty word for us as it gets in the way of a right good old fashioned hoof it to the big man tactic.

Longsider · Post by **Longsider** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:21 pm

I have thought for a while that if we don't win away all season we will go down. Still really worried about this.

NickBFC · Post by **NickBFC** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:43 pm

Longsider wrote:I have thought for a while that if we don't win away all season we will go down. Still really worried about this.

Same here. As the weeks go by, we're putting huge pressure on ourselves to keep performing at home. I'd be surprised if we can go all season losing away, and maintain so many home wins. Winning is a habit, losing is also a habit AND damages confidence. We seriously need to pick up a minimum of 3 points at Sunderland and Boro - preferably 4.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:49 pm

Yes, we're far too predictable away from home. It was very clear we were struggling and overrun in the first half and I wanted changes at HT. When I saw there were none (not surprising) I predicted a 2nd half similar to the 1st. And so it was! Too predictable.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:07 pm

We're predictable at home too aren't we?

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:08 pm

Why can't we win away?
Basically because we're not good enough.

Why aren't we good enough?
Basically because we haven't got enough good players.
We don't create sufficient chances and very rarely get
close to 40% possession.
I accept possession isn't everything but I can't recall the last time we
created as many, or more chances, than the opposition away from home.
Tactically we seem happy to concede possession and try and get something on the break.

Our defence have kept us in some games that could have been lost by higher scores.

That doesn't explain the home form which in terms of possession hasn't necessarily been
the opposite of our away form but we've managed (sometimes by the skin of our teeth)
to get wins/results.

Can't really explain why.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:09 pm

Sidney1st wrote:We're predictable at home too aren't we?

Yes, but the opposition don't like the changing room...worth a goal every time

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:11 pm

We are second on MOTD, not surprised at that, good viewing.

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:15 pm

I don't know the reasons why and I don't have the answers. But it is embarrassing and in any other job turning up once every two weeks would result in the sack. Simplistic I know but put in those terms it is clearly not going right and Dyche needs scrutiny ..it really is not good.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:16 pm

losing Barton isn't going to help the situation one little bit either. I just hope the bottom 3 don't suddenly find any form from somewhere.
Our ball retention is woeful away from home and there can be no excuse for it. For a team that went 23 unbeaten last season I'm amazed how weak we are away this season.

IF we stay up there will need to be massive improvement in the first 11

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:18 pm

Papabendi wrote:I don't know the reasons why and I don't have the answers. But it is embarrassing and in any other job turning up once every two weeks would result in the sack. Simplistic I know but put in those terms it is clearly not going right and Dyche needs scrutiny ..it really is not good.

Do you think Dyche should be brought before the MD and hauled over the coals? Or issued with a Written Warning, mayhap?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:20 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:We are second on MOTD, not surprised at that, good viewing.

We're good at coming second

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:21 pm

It isn't working. We can't bask in the home form and say all is fine. Because it isnt.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:22 pm

- wot about last season Frank?

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:24 pm

Papabendi wrote:It isn't working. We can't bask in the home form and say all is fine. Because it isnt.

A Final Written Warning then?

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:26 pm

Papabendi wrote:I don't know the reasons why and I don't have the answers. But it is embarrassing and in any other job turning up once every two weeks would result in the sack. Simplistic I know but put in those terms it is clearly not going right and Dyche needs scrutiny ..it really is not good.

Not if you were massively exceeding targets.

CHEWBACCA · Post by **CHEWBACCA** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:27 pm

Simple,we have a very average squad compared to most of the other teams in the Prem but a great manager who brings out our best but we can only do so much with what we have and obviously at home with the 12th man etc and the confidence that brings it has given us success there.
I'm sick of folk moaning and questioning Dyche's tactics,look where we are and look what we've spent in comparison to others in this league.
At least we ain't been di cked on every away day this season . !

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:30 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:- wot about last season Frank?

I bet you'd swap us for the Lion King FC? A win, away, A win, away, A win, away, A win, away.

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:31 pm

Lord Beamish.

Sad the Monty Python team passed up on your talents..

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:33 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:Do you think Dyche should be brought before the MD and hauled over the coals? Or issued with a Written Warning, mayhap?

He's still got points in the bank.
I have to wonder, though, if the club had greater ambition would the chairman "upgrade"?

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:44 pm

That was bad Frank, you know it..

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:08 pm

It's an odd one.

Looking at it logically, we've got no reason to complain. We're 9 points clear of the bottom 3 with 11 games to go.

It just niggles that we're so bad away from home.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:05 pm

So basically no one really knows why our home for is so good and our away form is so bad.

I don't think Dyche knows what's wrong but fortunately he has earned the right to try and figure it out and I would trust him to do it with our resources than anyone else.

If we stay up Its fair to say the squad needs serious improvement

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:09 pm

I'm just glad the only away game I've been to this season we didn't lose

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:23 pm

jurek wrote:Why can't we win away?
Basically because we're not good enough.

Why aren't we good enough?
Basically because we haven't got enough good players.
We don't create sufficient chances and very rarely get
close to 40% possession.
I accept possession isn't everything but I can't recall the last time we
created as many, or more chances, than the opposition away from home.
Tactically we seem happy to concede possession and try and get something on the break.

Our defence have kept us in some games that could have been lost by higher scores.

That doesn't explain the home form which in terms of possession hasn't necessarily been
the opposite of our away form but we've managed (sometimes by the skin of our teeth)
to get wins/results.

Can't really explain why.

Very accurate summation. Simply not good enough. But too may times we have lost to hesders late in the game. Has ti be adreesed. Maybe would help. At home we do seem to be able to scrape through.

Can't see an awsy win coming. Hope I am wrong.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:25 pm

It's fairly obvious, possession.

At home although the opposition often has the bulk of possession they are less threatening the crowd don't get behind them in the same way, away from home the pressure possession creates gradually mounts so that we become more vulnerable as the match progresses.

SD has to select a side that can breakdown attacks more easily and counter fast, it requires in my opinion a dominant holding midfielder.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:28 pm

Papabendi wrote:I don't know the reasons why and I don't have the answers. But it is embarrassing and in any other job turning up once every two weeks would result in the sack. Simplistic I know but put in those terms it is clearly not going right and Dyche needs scrutiny ..it really is not good.

So are you suggesting we sack Dyche?

If we were in the bottom 3 or 5 you'd probably have a point.

Did you know Boro haven't scored for a while or won a game for ages?
Leicester haven't won away all season either.

Palace have only just managed to get their first win haven't they under Sam?

Whilst it isn't ideal that our away form is crap, things could be a lot lot worse.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:29 pm

SD isn't a tactician he's a strategist.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:33 pm

I'm confused

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:33 pm

Nope, not suggesting we sack Dyche and I haven't said that anywhere.

But he is not immune from criticism and the longer this laughable away form continues, we remain vulnerable to relegation.

I believe we now have the worst away record of any team in Premier League history. Hardly the kind of stat one of the so called bright young English managers needs?

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:20 pm

Theres a combination of factors. I think we're a bit passive at times on the road - we sit off teams too much and even when we're absorbing pressure, we arent as proactive in snuffing out danger.

But its also the case weve had some misfortune on the road, and the way the fixtures have fallen hasnt helped. Our most winnable away games have been back loaded. That means there are still opportunities to put right our form. But it also partly explains why we started badly on the road and that inevitably affects confidence.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:23 pm

Saddo would of a fieyld day on hear with the gramma and spelling.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:35 pm

'We are second on MOTD, not surprised at that, good viewing.'

Funny though how we're only ever that high up when we lose.

'But its also the case weve had some misfortune on the road, and the way the fixtures have fallen hasnt helped'

I think you're just being incredibly kind there.

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:45 pm

We can spin it any way we like. It's a terrible record and if it continues it will end our time at this level whether it is this season or next. So something will need to change... and my suggestion is Dyche's style of football at this level is the main issue.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:04 am

It doesn't matter if we don't win away as long as we collect enough points to stay up (which we will do).