Shakespeare's best play

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:53 am

Having watched Julius Caesar last night at Stratford in what was an excellent production, lacking the spectacular visuals of their recent rendition of Othello but steadfast in its presentation of one of The Bards more instantly accessible plays, a real SD style performance keeping well within the framework and having non of the frivolous excesses of gender bending, or role uncertainty, it set me wondering which where the best of Shakespeare's Canon, and for me that has to be Macbeth and Hamlet, although Julius Casar has a wonderful section when Mark Antony cunningly persuades the crowd in true political fashion of its need to revenge Caesar and kill his slayers Brutus and Cassius. That particular section is as relevant today as when it was written. Like Dickens and Trollope, Shakespeare wrote with convincing certainty about corruption, human vice and the ease with which groups of humans are persuaded into folly by those with agendas and malice in their hearts. For Mark Antony, read Nigel Farage or Donald Trump, deployers of dark forces, tapping into the uncertainties and fears of simple folk.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:59 am

The Comedy of Errors (which I saw at Ludlow Castle) was pure comedy. Farage and Trump weren't in it, though!

Antony and Cleopatra, King Lear, Cymbeline, The Tempest, all get honourable mentions.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:01 am

The one thing that annoys me about Shakespeare is when he brings comedy into the serious stuff, light and fluffy or dark and sinister yes, but when it's in the mix it can be vexatious.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:02 am

Hamlet is my choice. Macbeth second. A Midsummer Night's Dream third.

I design the posters, banners, websites etc for a couple of Shakespeare companies, see: http://www.tlcm.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.gbtheatre.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most of the photos on GB Theatre website are my shots.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:08 am

Blimey,that website needs an update. Talk about "look what you could have won"

The gbtheatre one, by the way.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:08 am

Hope you weren't involved in those unforeseen circumstances LCP.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:11 am

Funkydrummer wrote:Blimey,that website needs an update. Talk about "look what you could have won"

The gbtheatre one, by the way.

Which one? T L C M is a brand new site launched yesterday!

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:12 am

ablueclaret wrote:Hope you weren't involved in those unforeseen circumstances LCP.

Sadly yes.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:14 am

"Best play" really rather depends on the criteria applied.
e.g. Best storyline, best written / constructed, best poetry, most compelling, best comedy, most thought-provoking, most relevant today etc.
Taking all those into account, it's difficult to see beyond Macbeth and Hamlet, but a strong case can be made for the very challenging King Lear, and The Tempest (perhaps the ultimate "tragi-comic" problem play.)
But how do you compare those to the delightful light, genial comedy Twelfth Night?, and how do you surpass some of the poetry in Romeo and Juliet?.
And that's before we even start on the remarkable history plays of which Henry IV Part 1 - (ah the memories of "O" level literature) -, is undoubtedly among the best.
Re: OP: Yes, Julius Caesar is indeed one of the best histories.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:15 am

Just seen this on the website.

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

Due to unforeseen circumstances, we are taking a 1 year break and will tour again in 2018.

My apologies.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:18 am

A take on Macbeth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Diva5REt8c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:22 am

Also this :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42WFxAtoM-g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very funny.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:53 am

I realise it has been said before, but I cannot undersatand Shakespeareat all.
I'm sure there are a thousand great quotes and plots hidden away within his works, but they shall forever remain a mystery to me.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:04 am

Wile E Coyote wrote:I realise it has been said before, but I cannot undersatand Shakespeareat all.
I'm sure there are a thousand great quotes and plots hidden away within his works, but they shall forever remain a mystery to me.

I remember studying King Lear at 6th form, it took me ages to understand it. Some of the lines could take you a few minutes to translate what he's trying to say to modern day terms. The stories are good but I often found the dialogue going well over my head.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:14 am

on that canal programme with tim west and prunella scales, both said they were passionate about him, they could recite his work years after appearing in a play. They began to do so on their boat the other night, it might as well have been ancient latin for all it meant to me. No idea what it means.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:18 am

"The Tempest" - saw it at Stratford with Patrick Stewart playing Prospero. Genius.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:19 am

The problem with Shakespeare is it's unreadable.
Wonderful to see acted, whether on stage or screen, but for a reader who can't find the pace or the rhymes very heavy going.
Personally there are far too many based on cross dressing!
Henry V for me if only for this gem. Makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand to attention.

Henry V.
What's he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin:
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow 2255
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost; 2260
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires:
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England: 2265
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more, methinks, would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight, 2270
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian: 2275
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours, 2280
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages 2285
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd. 2290
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; 2295
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, 2300
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:24 am

small armies in those days, those line numbers fit in well.

spadesclaret · Post by **spadesclaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:33 am

In no particular order -

The Tempest
Henry V
Henry IV part one
King Lear

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:35 am

I don't really get that excited by Shakespeare.

It's just another story, but as Minne has said, it's almost unreadable and I'm not really that interested in going to a theatre to watch it.
Even films are a bit of a bore fest at times.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:58 am

Sidney1st wrote:it's almost unreadable and I'm not really that interested in going to a theatre to watch it.

It's hard to read, words seem out of order and thoughts are carried over several lines, not to mention he's often fitting it all within a certain rhythmic structure. But remember he's a playwright and he's writing to be heard not read so I would encourage people to watch a live performance at least once.

Compare the Cripin's Day speach written as it is above and then performed by a master.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-yZNMWFqvM

I studied, read and performed Shakespeare as part of my degree (I'll get my coat). Just personally I prefer the plays based on history (though not technically all 'The History plays')

Henry V
Richard II
Caesar

Other faves

Tempest
Taming of the Shrew - Great RomCom
Macbeth

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:01 pm

I saw King Lear at Drury Lane in 2008, with Ian McKellen playing the title role. I didn't understand a word of what was happening but I'd still recommend it as an experience, probably didn't help either that I was well stoned at the time.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:15 pm

Perhaps if shakespeare began every line with "So" then peppered the dialogue with "Absolutely" it would appeal to the modern day pretentious arses out there a lot more.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:16 pm

Read it out loud it then makes a whole heap more sense, and if you are interested in words phrases and their origins worth getting an annotated work.
Just going to the Royal Shakespeare Theatre in Stratford for one performance is worth it, a fantastic theatre, often great scenery music and dance, and you can get into the midweek Understudy performances for a fiver. If you're over 60 then one of the evening full cast performances costs just £9, makes football appear a tad expensive.
They're doing Christmas Carol this winter and you can book seats in a few days time, well worth a trip.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:21 pm

Acting is more than just words, but last night the performers really made the sense of the script stand out, it's knowing where to break up speeches, place emphasis and interprete words and their meaning within the sentence that make for a comprehensive performance.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:22 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:Perhaps if shakespeare began every line with "So" then peppered the dialogue with "Absolutely" it would appeal to the modern day pretentious arses out there a lot more.

For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Juliet and her Romeo...
Terrible family feud. So Sad!

- Donald J Shakespeare

SlidingTackle · Post by **SlidingTackle** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:25 pm

The one where he knifes Raneiri in the back.......?

The Enclosure · Post by **The Enclosure** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:41 pm

Has to be Hamlet .

Bop · Post by **Bop** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:56 pm

"That is the question"

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:14 pm

Twelfth Night.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:28 pm

I agree with ablueclaret*, reading Shakespeare at school is very different from watching the countries finest actors bring the 400 year old words to life.

For anyone who has never watched any Shakespeare....why not start with Romeo & Juliet film with Leonardo DiCaprio and Claire Danes. There are several versions of Hamlet....Mel Gibson one, or Kenneth Branagh's version.

Then go see Northern Broadsides or the RSC, or The Lord Chamberlain's Men (they play at Keighley and Harrogate on their UK tour).

* I can't believe I've just written that! ; )

Erasmus · Post by **Erasmus** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:28 pm

The Tempest, such a wonderful way to accept old age.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:58 pm

I urge you to check out the Coriolanus film of 2012, very good modern adaptation and there's tons of action to go with the politics which still resonate well in these modern times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di-XOO_LTlw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:18 pm

Been said a lot on here already but Shakespeare's work needs to be heard/seen rather than read and when it's done properly it can be scintillating. Too many people get bogged down by trying to understand every single word - it's not always necessary. Sometimes, often, it's enough to let it wash over you and you'll get the sentiment.

I'm not sure I'd choose to see a Shakespeare play if I could only go to one more play ever again but for an actor the scripts are delicious - everything is there, written direction, working with rhythm, so that very little acting is needed.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:30 pm

Reverting back to 442 which he changes to a 4411. It seems to have worked the last two games for him

grapidianclaret · Post by **grapidianclaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:42 pm

No particular order.
Julius Caesar, Richard II, Macbeth, Henry V.
I love the Brutus is an honourable man sequence, it is outstanding.

john'sroseyspecs · Post by **john'sroseyspecs** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:01 pm

Never really got it to be honest. Did like seeing John Nettles in A Winter's Tale at Stratford whilst at college though. He was less pleased at hearing drunken shouts of ' Bergerac !' Through the performance.

boiledclaret · Post by **boiledclaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:29 pm

'Can't you see that's the last act of a desperate man.

'We don't care if it's the third act of Henry the fifth, we're leaving. - Blazing Saddles.

Timon of Athens is very good. 'Creditors, Devils!

morpheus2 · Post by **morpheus2** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:46 pm

Henry V. The rousing speech at the siege of Harfleur, marvelous!

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:58 pm

Erasmus wrote:The Tempest, such a wonderful way to accept old age.

Here here!

https://youtu.be/KFNTAsC8qQ0?list=PLlfY ... AXhUNKz32g

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:56 am

Macbeth. It goes like a train, bloody and screaming into the darkness.

To be fair it's hard to pick a best - there are so many and for so many different reasons. But that's genius for you.

Twelfth Night
Henry V
Hamlet
King Lear
Much ado about nothing
Romeo and Juliet
Midsummer Nights Dream
The Tempest
Julius Caesar

They're all brilliant

Merchant of Venice
Comedy of Errors

You could go on!!!!

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:56 am

Macbeth. It goes like a train, bloody and screaming into the darkness.

To be fair it's hard to pick a best - there are so many and for so many different reasons. But that's genius for you.

Twelfth Night
Henry V
Hamlet
King Lear
Much ado about nothing
Romeo and Juliet
Midsummer Nights Dream
The Tempest
Julius Caesar

They're all brilliant

Merchant of Venice
Comedy of Errors
Othello

You could go on!!!!

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:18 am

HelloHiGoodbye wrote: I'm not sure I'd choose to see a Shakespeare play if I could only go to one more play ever again but for an actor the scripts are delicious - everything is there, written direction, working with rhythm, so that very little acting is needed.

I'd agree the scripts are delicious for an actor. But not that little acting is needed. Good actors make it work - its morecthsn just the poetry - and I've seen some rubbish attempts including a dreadful professuonal Macbeth.

I did Feste a few years ago and wasn't too shabby but I later saw Ben Kingsley doing it on telly and he was jawdroppingly awesome. I thought "**** - i wish i'd thpught of that - *******!!"

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:32 am

Plays are like football teams, one great actor can transform a play but the best performances are when the casting is right and everybody appears to be working from the same script.I've seen Shakespearean plays where the humour has outshone the drama, where frail female performances have diminished the intensity, when bombast has drowned the delicacy, it is a fine balance and rarely does the whole pull completely together, but when it does you know about it.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:37 am

I like the word garner, reminds me of my dad, who was for ever garnering peas and he was a Lancastrian at his heart.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:52 am

BabylonClaret wrote:I'd agree the scripts are delicious for an actor. But not that little acting is needed. Good actors make it work - its morecthsn just the poetry - and I've seen some rubbish attempts including a dreadful professuonal Macbeth.

I did Feste a few years ago and wasn't too shabby but I later saw Ben Kingsley doing it on telly and he was jawdroppingly awesome. I thought "**** - i wish i'd thpught of that - *******!!"

Yep - good actors make it work. That's what I was saying. For good actors, everything is there in the language to utilise.

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:29 pm

purely because i did them at O level and A level so got a much deeper understanding of the nuances and cleverness of the plays based on events of the time, and in addition have seen live..my top two are the merchant of Venice and Macbeth

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:46 pm

The Tempest
As You Like It
Midsummer Night's Dream.