If a General Election was called...

[Saxoman]

Wigan is still a dump, it was when Labour were in power, it was before Labour and Blair were in power.

I'd rather live there than Burnley, that's for sure..

[Sidney1st]

I'd rather live there than Burnley, that's for sure..

Meanwhile a friend of mine moved to Wigan and at the job centre was told he should move back to Burnley because he'd be better off.

That was about 10 yrs ago.

[Saxoman]

So you've been signed off sick but splitting your time living in France or the UK depending on who you're hiding from?

You won't get much sympathy on here.

Who said I ever lived in France? I have family there..

[If it be your will]

.

[Vino blanco]

Poor old Saxo, all those personal problems and he still supports the Rovers. Hasn't worked in how many years, no wonder he can spend all his time on here. If a General Election WERE called, I would ask Turtle what I was really thinking about and then then ignore his advice.

[Saxoman]

Can ANYONE tell me what's the problem with corbyn?

[Sidney1st]

The other question is - who is the debt owed to? Genuinely interested in who people think we owe the money to

Its probably owed to the same people who've always lent money to governments.

Banks and/or the families that own those banks, Rothschild's etc.

[Sidney1st]

Can ANYONE tell me what's the problem with corbyn?

He stuck it up Diane Abbott, that's enough to make him unelectable!

That and he's clearly a union person.
I've read somewhere that he's a bit of a communist too, but I'm fairly meh about that.

He doesn't really inspire people to believe he could lead a country.

[Saxoman]

He stuck it up Diane Abbott, that's enough to make him unelectable!

That and he's clearly a union person.
I've read somewhere that he's a bit of a communist too, but I'm fairly meh about that.

He doesn't really inspire people to believe he could lead a country.

Theresa may held hands with Donald trump. Does that inspire you?

[Lancasterclaret]

Owen Jones brilliantly summed up Labours problem in an article today. Most Tories are probably Brexiteers and free marketers, most Lib Dems are pro-Europe, but Lab? Split all over the place sadly.

All i can say is that Corbyn might have the best policies in the world, but there isn't one Lab politician I can think of (the bloke who used to be a vicar in South Wales, and Jess Philips excepted) who I'd trust running a bath, let alone a country.

So its only really down to one alternative for me, and its not the conservatives ( not dogmatic about it, but I just don't see how their policies and the their lurch to the right to quell UKIP can ever be good for the country)

Anyone who watched QT last night would have seen the problem with Corbyn. It was in Sunderland, and one bloke who wanted to get rid of JC got a big round of applause (as did a couple who supported him). The ones who support him want his version of the UK, and don't believe that anyone else can achieve it, while the Lab voters who don't support him think that at best that he's not popular enough to ever win and at worst a total disaster that might see the Labs disappear.

[Clarets4me]

The Corbyn question is an interesting one. The majority of Brexit voters polled during the summer cited fears about housing, jobs, the NHS, and education as reasons for voting out. Overwhelmingly voters appear to be tired of untrustworthy politicians saying whatever it takes to get elected, and ripping the system off as much as possible. And even Conservative voters tend to favour re-nationalisation of railways and utilities. A majority of non-conservatives believe the rich should be taxed more. Going by these benchmarks Corbyn should be out of sight ahead in the polls. A political outsider who has voted with his conscience, his expense claims extremely modest, and an attitude to PR that is the opposite of the shiny-faced spin-doctored automatons that we know are motivated by personal ambition and who we profess to hate so much. Over and above nationalising utilities and the railways, he's said his priorities are building more housing, fully funding the NHS and education, and creating good jobs through this funding and investments in green and new technologies. To top it all off taxing the rich is on the agenda to fund this, so as to redistribute wealth around the economy

I'm an ex Labour member..

The simple fact is that Labour is un-electable with Corbyn as leader. He may have some personal qualities, but no party has ever won a General Election when being behind in the polls on two critical questions, " Who would make the best PM ? " and " Which party do you most trust on the economy ? ". At present, Labour are so far behind on both measures that it's almost laughable...
To take your points, Brexit voters polled did mention the points you raised, but their two main concerns were Sovereignty and immigration which is why Britain voted out. Corbyn was almost invisible in this Campaign, and if you read Tim Shipman's book " All out War ", you'll see his refusal to engage with the Remain Campaign and his total lack of leadership..
He calls for unity in the party, seemingly forgetting the 500+ times he voted against the Labour whip, whilst a backbencher. His expense claims should be modest, he's a London MP with no need of a 2nd home. He does have an interesting attitude to PR, he's recently taken on a member of staff, who's just finished a long stint at Sinn Fein's London Office, he's muted the idea of our Nuclear Subs patrolling the Oceans, with no weapons attached, and his chief group of Cheerleaders " Momentum ", have a Social media manager with a spent conviction for Electoral Fraud. Add to this, his previous support for Hamas, the IRA, various unsavoury Left-wing Governments, Cuba and Venuzuela for example, plus his choice of McDonnell, Lady Nugee & Diane Abbott as part of his Front Bench team shows his unsuitability for the role...

[Flat Stanley]

Difficult question for me.

As alluded to above the biggest problem with Corbyn is his lack of willingness to compromise, take on board others points of view and work with people who disagree with him. All off those qualities are needed in government. He is too idealistic and not pragmatic enough to get things done. Labour are unlikely to make gains with him in charge. However with Scotland all now voting SNP and as long as the first past the post system is in place whoever is in charge won't make much difference and Labour will have little chance of getting back into government. England is by nature pretty conservative place.

On the other hand spending cuts or at least cuts in real terms are have huge consequences for the NHS and social care, Policing, prisons and schools. Pendle schools are losing £5.5m per year by 2020. My wife's small primary school is losing £43,000 a year, my mother in laws £73000. That is more than 1 and 2 teachers. The Tories seem obsessed with academies with unqualified teachers and underpaid staff. I don't think that is the answer.

As is usually the case when the Tories are in charge inequality is rising. The gap between rich and poor is rising. The number of people earning less than a living wage (not the living wage made up by the Tories) but a real living wage is rising. They have a obsession with trickle down economics which has never worked for the worst off. They go too far with free market economics and don't intervene enough to sort out where the market does not work fairly for people.

Personally from a selfish point of view I am finincially better off with the Tories in charge but there is a lack of fairness for the wider society. Rather than really try to sort out huge multinational companies paying little or no tax and billionaire avoiding tax they are still obsessing about cuts and increasing NI contributions for self employed people for example. They worry so much about benefit fraud and People relying on welfare they take it away from People who really do need it.

People say Labour overspent maybe they did but historically Tory cuts and lack of investment have left things in a mess and required high levels of spending when Labour took charge. The financial crisis would have a been every bit as bad with the Tories in charge when they were screaming for less regulation of the financial institutions who caused it.

Why can't we have a government which is both strong economically and also has a social conscience and a drive for greater fairness and equality.

The biggest difficulty with politics is that the more freedom for individua!s and less interference from government the less equality. The more equality, the greater the intervention by government and the less individual freedom people have.

Not too sure how i would vote tomorrow if I had to.

[Clarets4me]

Difficult question for me.

As alluded to above the biggest problem with Corbyn is his lack of willingness to compromise, take on board others points of view and work with people who disagree with him. All off those qualities are needed in government. He is too idealistic and not pragmatic enough to get things done. Labour are unlikely to make gains with him in charge. However with Scotland all now voting SNP and as long as the first past the post system is in place whoever is in charge won't make much difference and Labour will have little chance of getting back into government. England is by nature pretty conservative place.

On the other hand spending cuts or at least cuts in real terms are have huge consequences for the NHS and social care, Policing, prisons and schools. Pendle schools are losing £5.5m per year by 2020. My wife's small primary school is losing £43,000 a year, my mother in laws £73000. That is more than 1 and 2 teachers. The Tories seem obsessed with academies with unqualified teachers and underpaid staff. I don't think that is the answer.

As is usually the case when the Tories are in charge inequality is rising. The gap between rich and poor is rising. The number of people earning less than a living wage (not the living wage made up by the Tories) but a real living wage is rising. They have a obsession with trickle down economics which has never worked for the worst off. They go too far with free market economics and don't intervene enough to sort out where the market does not work fairly for people.

Personally from a selfish point of view I am finincially better off with the Tories in charge but there is a lack of fairness for the wider society. Rather than really try to sort out huge multinational companies paying little or no tax and billionaire avoiding tax they are still obsessing about cuts and increasing NI contributions for self employed people for example. They worry so much about benefit fraud and People relying on welfare they take it away from People who really do need it.

People say Labour overspent maybe they did but historically Tory cuts and lack of investment have left things in a mess and required high levels of spending when Labour took charge. The financial crisis would have a been every bit as bad with the Tories in charge when they were screaming for less regulation of the financial institutions who caused it.

Why can't we have a government which is both strong economically and also has a social conscience and a drive for greater fairness and equality.

The biggest difficulty with politics is that the more freedom for individua!s and less interference from government the less equality. The more equality, the greater the intervention by government and the less individual freedom people have.

Not too sure how i would vote tomorrow if I had to.

Enjoyed your reflective and thoughtful post, I suspect it mirrors many posters on here..

[COYC73]

I've voted Labour all my life.....but no way would I vote Labour again whilst Corbyn is in charge...! The man is a bloody National Security Risk...!!!

[Heaton's Gloves]

Corbyn is and always has been a terrorist sympathiser. Aside from that the Labour Party and Lib Dems appear totally unelectable. Labour have failed the working class for as long as I can remember, and I have never understood why the people of Burnley simply will not vote for any other party. Their usual response is that they have always voted Labour. I would wait to see whether Brexit is delivered in full as per the wishes of the 17.4 million people. And before anyone starts banging on about old people ruining your futures, we live in a democracy, get over it!
If Brexit is not delivered in full, hard Brexit, with no more of our money sent to the unelected pigs in Brussels then my future votes will be UKIP. I have no intention of debating my stance on this, so if you don't agree with my views please keep scrolling. Cheers.

[SmudgetheClaret]

UKIP! all the others are establishment cartel...

[Lancasterclaret]

Ah yes, that well known anti-establishment party, UKIP

Which bit of the establishment is Farage either not part of or desperate to join again?

[Wexford_Claret]

I never quite got the view 'I'd never vote Labour now, it's unelectable'.

Well yes, it will be unelectable if none of you lot for it!

[SmudgetheClaret]

Lancaster the way you immediately attack is why they are my choice.

[hampsteadclaret]

62..An excellent post I thought from Flat Stanley..particularly this bit..

'As is usually the case when the Tories are in charge inequality is rising. The gap between rich and poor is rising. The number of people earning less than a living wage (not the living wage made up by the Tories) but a real living wage is rising. They have a obsession with trickle down economics which has never worked for the worst off. They go too far with free market economics and don't intervene enough to sort out where the market does not work fairly for people..'

- 'trickle down effect' my ar*e' - does anyone still believe that guff?

..and then this...'Why can't we have a government which is both strong economically and also has a social conscience and a drive for greater fairness and equality'..

Whichever politician [or group of] that can TRULY DELIVER this [whichever party they are in] will have a majority of about 300, and will have about 4 Parliaments to get things done.

[LoveCurryPies]

As a working class northerner, I'll always vote labour, even if I disagree with their policies.

Why? It's complete bolox this idea this idea that 'working class' must vote Labour. Why vote for a party whose current policies are ludicrous?

[Lancasterclaret]

Lancaster the way you immediately attack is why they are my choice.

Whose attacking?

You have to tell me which part of the establishment they are not part of, cos I don't see it.

[Sidney1st]

Why? It's complete bolox this idea this idea that 'working class' must vote Labour. Why vote for a party whose current policies are ludicrous?

People I grew up with in North Wales are exactly the same.
Apparently its decreed at birth that they will be Labour voters.
I'm just glad I wasn't born in North Wales

[JohnMcGreal]

Let's face it, Rupert will decide who wins the next election, like he has done for the last 35+ years.

[elwaclaret]

I think this latest budget is the clearest example yet that the Tories see the British public as nothing more than work slaves for large (mainly foreign owned) corporations. Thatcher was condemned for being against the working class, and yet under the them huge amounts of money was shifted to encourage people to (as Norman Tebbitt put it) "Get on their bikes". ELTEC grants for new businesses and genuine attempts to get people off benefit and working for themselves.
This new generation of Tories have smashed the social security system and are now attacking those trying to scamper out of the pit that that has left. First came the attempt to scrap Working Tax Credit, now moving the goalposts to Self employed that if it was implemented would see thousands if not millions unable to pay themselves.
The reason so many businesses stay so small is because of the vast expense of actually employing anyone else (wage slaves might not realise that for every SMALL employer the real cost is roughly double the actual wage that employee is paid). The Tories yet again chose to ignore Corporations cheating the rules and instead turn their bullying on the little man trying to make something of himself.
If there was any social conscience in this lot at all they would be nailing the big corporations for what they should be paying and using that money to bring down the cost of employing people not attacking those trying to do it for themselves and destroying any hope for thousands of fledgling businesses.
However its the big corporations that pay big fat consultancy fees and bribe's so as always its like asking the wolves to mind the sheep.

I genuinely fear for where all this will end, I suspect it will continue, because all the power is already in the hands of Press Barons, spin doctors and corporate interest until the poorest in society are starving to death and Civil unrest due to having no voice left.

[HatfieldClaret]

As much as the Tories cock it up now and again, they don't cause the lasting damage that Labour do.

If labour had chosen David rather than the unions installing Ed, things may have turned out rather differently.

Corbyn as prime minister ? Won't happen.

But just remember that people all over the world have died for the right to vote, many women still can't. So vote or spoil your paper or whatever, but I think all should really make the effort.

[starting_11]

It's a problem encouraged by the current FPTP system. People think only two parties can win, and they're right, so they choose the lesser of two evils and close their minds to the others. It's just one of the many reasons we need to get with of this ****** up voting system.

Worked out for you conveniently when UKIP didn't get a single seat from their votes.