Andre Gray

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:14 pm

So we can do a swap?

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:16 pm

So we can do a swap?

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:24 pm

You fancy a swap, Ian?

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:32 pm

I had hoped that we'd be able to keep Gray for another season, pair him up front with more of a ball-playing second striker, and stand back and let his pace, power and raw instinct for scoring goals and getting down the channels speak for himself. in our 4-4-2, with that sort of craft supporting him, he could set the league alight next season.

Of course he is raw, of course he's unrefined at times, but he's improving his weaknesses almost by the week - his hold up play was pretty good against Liverpool - and his strengths are exactly those that very premier league team is desperate for in a centre forward. He is quick, direct, scores goals and most importantly, occupies centre backs and forces them into one v one battles that they invariably hate.

If he wants to go in the summer, it will be tough to keep hold of him, but with the sorts of teams that are in for him we'll no doubt want to start the bidding at £15 million and hope to hold out for £20 million. If we can't get it, then depending on his attitude, there's a serious argument for keeping hold of him, getting the first half of next season out of him, and then look to sell him in January next year once he's scored a few goals to get us into a decent position next season.

If he does go, we'll have to look at replacing him. There aren't too many players in English football who could replace him - the lad Niasse at Everton, on loan at Hull, is possibly one if Hull go down and can't make his deal permanent (especially if we're doing business with Everton for Keane), but there aren't too many more if we're looking like for like. The upside of that is that our current, rather direct style is built aroun Gray, and his departure might prompt a shift towards the more mixed style we adopted when we had Ings.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:44 pm

Rashford on loan would be perfect. Highly unlikely mind.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:51 pm

I have yet to see a pile of money score any goals in any league. But if he's not happy, what can you do? Put it towards more young prospects out of the 9th tier, I guess.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:51 pm

Radford could trap a bag of cement.

Edit: Radford? RASHford

Masham Ale · Post by **Masham Ale** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:01 pm

A Luton fan I know says Isaac Vassell reminds him a lot of Gray

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:35 pm

Why has he also got an awful first touch, lacks any awareness and vision of whats around him and spends half the game offside. Sounds like a real prospect

ewanrob · Post by **ewanrob** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:38 pm

Great player and would be a massive loss. Still a bit to learn, but as others have alluded too...the service into him is poor at times.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:27 pm

Has he been offered anything beyond 2018. Told me in Tecsos after the Boro game that he had not been offered anything re contract

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:31 pm

I was a bit annoyed by Tyler yesterday, in between going on and on about how Liverpool should be beating these 'lesser teams' he was selling Gray off to Spurs.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:39 pm

Diesel wrote:Radford could trap a bag of cement.

Edit: Radford? RASHford

He certainly could and on a pitch like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFV-bnqB9HY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:42 pm

Gray may or may not be happy at Burnley but it would probably
be better for him to stay at Burnley for another season and hopefully get
15 goals+ and then have some of the big teams coming in for him.
If he did progress and improve then we'd probably get at least 20m for him.
Won't be surprised if someone does come in for him at the end of the season given all the rumours
and Burnley should try and tie him down with a promise or release clause of say 22m.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:54 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote: Ratio of a goal every 2.75 games in The Premier league

Ratios are nice but in reality he scores one goal or more every 4.4 games.

chipbutty · Post by **chipbutty** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:06 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:Unbelievable.

Andre is a long way from the finished article. We know it, Sean Dyche knows it and Andre accepts that he isn't. To come from where he has to play in the premier league is a massive, massive step upwards, yet he has taken it in his stride with a really relaxed attitude. He isn't afraid to miss, which is so important for any striker. He's scored 10 goals, as mentioned, despite missing 4 games and being dropped from a couple of others to try 4-5-1. Nobody has a clue how good he could be in a team that create chances, which we rarely do, but to say snap someone's hand off for 12 mill for a player we paid 9 mill for in the Championship. This is the REAL world, it's time some of you gave your heads a shake.

Agreed, he didn`t just miss 4 games for something that happened on the football pitch either. His whole life was under scrutiny for something that happened a long time ago when he was practically non league.
Not bringing his girlfriend into the (Little) Mix at that time must have concerned him too, just as he was getting a foot hold in the Premier League and scoring against Liverpool.
I really think without that massive distraction at the beginning of the season, that Andre Gray would be on around 15 goals by now.

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:36 am

what_no_pies wrote:Going rate for a 25 year old English premier league striker with pace is surely upwards of 20 million. We paid 6 and he became championship player of the season after then. I'm not one of his biggest admirers but the suggestion of 10-12 million is laughable really.

Jesus we only PAID £6 mill, thought it was £36 mill at least at 20 we get a great return, Happy Clapper now.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:08 am

Dare I mention Jay Rod...?

Agyei may come good and be a natural pacey replacement. I do trust our management team to do the best for Burnley though so whatever happens I'll be happy they act in the interests of the club.

EDIT - as a side note, regarding Andre, has anyone noticed that the England squad are looking to be extremely short of options for a striker with injuries of key players etc - I think he will get a call up.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:14 am

Rick_Muller wrote:Dare I mention Jay Rod...?
- as a side note, regarding Andre, has anyone noticed that the England squad are looking to be extremely short of options for a striker with injuries of key players etc - I think he will get a call up.

I really hope he gets a call, the opportunity just to train with the squad would be great for him.
They all practice trapping bags of cement for a start!

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:24 am

boatshed bill wrote:I really hope he gets a call, the opportunity just to train with the squad would be great for him.
They all practice trapping bags of cement for a start!

Charlie Austin was a great addition because he could lay bricks with the bag of cement he trapped

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:21 pm

I understand opposition fans underestimating our players but have to give my head a shake at our fans who see him regularly, but can only focus on his mistakes rather then his strengths. Andre's first touch isn't poor, it's just less consistent than it might be. There are numerous examples of fantastic first touches from Andre but they just seem to be ignored by his critics who are just waiting for his next poor touch. When you have top class defenders it isn't always as easy as it seems to stay onside but a lot of strikers these days don't worry too much about offside in the hope that they wont be made 'active' until they get back onside. All our front men could improve that side of their game, and other players could time their passes more effectively at times. Play as a team, win as a team, draw as a team, lose as a team. Supporters should learn to be more supportive of their team as well. We can all do things better at times. A lot of folk on here dish it out but can't take it.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:42 pm

One thing that is concerning is good strikers are hard to come by. We have been incredibly fortunate to have Austin followed by Ings followed by Grey. If/When Grey goes we need to be fortunate again to find a player of his quality for less than £15 million

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:57 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:Well that would be a solution for us not whipping balls in and scoring with headers

Well we aren't any good at crossing balls in and scoring with headers, as we appear to be playing with bags of cement. Heading a bag of cement on a wet day isn't good for dementia.

taio · Post by **taio** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:02 pm

Inchy wrote:One thing that is concerning is good strikers are hard to come by. We have been incredibly fortunate to have Austin followed by Ings followed by Grey. If/When Grey goes we need to be fortunate again to find a player of his quality for less than £15 million

I'd prefer to give credit for effective recruitment of strikers and their development, rather than simply being fortunate.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:05 pm

taio wrote:I'd prefer to give credit for effective recruitment of strikers and their development, rather than simply being fortunate.

Are we allowed to give credit out, I didn't think it was sometimes after reading this board

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:27 pm

He's frustrating at times but the fact remains he's the most likely goalscorer we have. For anyone to say we should let him go is naïve at the very least. His record is very good, he gets into good positions regularly and causes defences problems with his pace. What more do you want?!

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:35 pm

ok, for a test, put him in the Leicester set up, where they could provide him the service he needs a la Vardy. Now is he a striker worth keeping? It's not about Gray, it's about our set-up and lack of ability to play to his strengths

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:53 pm

For a start Vardys movement off the ball is streets ahead of gray. The way Vardys pulls off defenders into space to allow direct balls is what creates his space. Also Vardys ability to control the ball and carry it at speed again is better than Gray's poor control. Also once Vardy has the ball his awareness of players around him and his interplay with them again is miles better than Gray's.

Good strikers need good service but they also create their own space, service and chances and at the top level you cannot rely on the ball being laid on a plate.

Gray has some brilliant raw talent but my concern is he doesn't seem to be showing much signs of improving his weaker areas but hopefully that will change.

For me we need to find a top class striker in the Jay Rod mould who can play up top on his own and play both the #9 and #10 roles in a front two with Gray as second choice on the bench

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:04 pm

Jay Rod would be a nice acquisition!
Gray has 2 years. Who says he is unhappy? Gets his music played in the dressing room. What more could he want?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:34 pm

Haven't we moved on from Jay-Rod yet?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:44 pm

Dunno what the obsession with signing rodriguez is. We should be looking at replacing Gray with someone better.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:47 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Dunno what the obsession with signing rodriguez is. We should be looking at replacing Gray with someone better.

Isn't Gray good enough then?

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:53 pm

Don't sign Rodriguez the injury ruined him.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:54 pm

Spijed wrote:Isn't Gray good enough then?

I don't think you understood what was written...

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:55 pm

taio wrote:
I'd prefer to give credit for effective recruitment of strikers and their development, rather than simply being fortunate.

Of course its been good recruitment but Ings and Austin were a gamble that paid off. There is a bit of luck involved. We have signed a fair few lower league players who haven't made the step up. I am just pointing out that unless you throw silly money at it there are no guarantees we will find a player as good as Grey

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:58 pm

Spijed wrote:Isn't Gray good enough then?

Gray is yes. But when he goes we should improve on him. Jay isnt an improvement in my opinion, certainly as a goalscorer.

taffy · Post by **taffy** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:58 pm

I don't mind gray seeing his contract out if he keeps us up this season and the next it will be worth it

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:59 pm

Inchy wrote:Of course its been good recruitment but Ings and Austin were a gamble that paid off. There is a bit of luck involved. We have signed a fair few lower league players who haven't made the step up. I am just pointing out that unless you throw silly money at it there are no guarantees we will find a player as good as Grey

Chelsea through silly money at Torres and Shevchenko.

We have thrown sensible money at most strikers right back to when we signed Adrian Heath!

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:47 pm

The problem with Gray, for us, is that unless the rest of the team is being allowed to play to his strengths he offers pretty much zero. When the balls into the channels or round the corner of the last defender aren't coming he struggles to have any effect on the game. Plenty people arguing that his mere presence on the pitch affects the way the opposition have to set up and that's probably right, but when we're often man-for-man weaker than the opposition (certainly in an attacking/creative sense) I'm not sure that gives us that much of an edge in comparison to playing with a forward that wasn’t so one-dimensional and had another way to get involved and affect a game (e.g. Ings).

I've no issue with his work rate or commitment but when it isn't happening in the channels or round the corner and he comes deeper to get involved the first touch comes out and shows his obvious technical limitations. That’s what knocks £10m off his price tag in my eyes.

For a Tottenham with the likes of Eriksen and Alli round him maybe he wouldn’t need any other dimensions, maybe he scores 20 a season the way he is and all of a sudden he’s a £30m forward, but to me it’s unlikely. Pochettino maybe knows more than I do though.

He’s a one dimensional forward and we’re a one dimensional team. Like us he’ll look great under some circumstances and toothless in others, mid-table Prem is the plateau I reckon.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:00 pm

Surely the point is, or I hope it is, that survival brings us the opportunity to improve the squad even further, and then change our style of play.
The tactics for the talent SD had to work with, have been brilliant, but I would be very disappointed if we are still playing the same way in 12/24 months time.
If that is the case then what a great time for Gray to play for us. He can mature at the same time as the team around him. Win, win. He'd struggle to get that latitude with most other premier league clubs.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:14 pm

lucs86 wrote:The problem with Gray, for us, is that unless the rest of the team is being allowed to play to his strengths he offers pretty much zero. When the balls into the channels or round the corner of the last defender aren't coming he struggles to have any effect on the game. Plenty people arguing that his mere presence on the pitch affects the way the opposition have to set up and that's probably right, but when we're often man-for-man weaker than the opposition (certainly in an attacking/creative sense) I'm not sure that gives us that much of an edge in comparison to playing with a forward that wasn’t so one-dimensional and had another way to get involved and affect a game (e.g. Ings).

Well obviously we'd want a striker who was pacy, skilful, a goalscorer, can play off the shoulder or with his back to goal but they cost a lot of money.

A good example of how Gray's presence alters the opposition was when we played Man City at home. They played with a very high defensive line because with Vokes up front there was no-one to work the defenders with a threat of pace. When we played them in the return match with Gray starting it wasn't as noticeable because they had to sit deeper to stop him.

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:48 pm

We need to be looking at Tammy Abraham at Chelsea....

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:01 pm

aggi wrote:Well obviously we'd want a striker who was pacy, skilful, a goalscorer, can play off the shoulder or with his back to goal but they cost a lot of money.

A good example of how Gray's presence alters the opposition was when we played Man City at home. They played with a very high defensive line because with Vokes up front there was no-one to work the defenders with a threat of pace. When we played them in the return match with Gray starting it wasn't as noticeable because they had to sit deeper to stop him.

Yeah those forwards are £25m+ and Gray isn't one of them, that's why people will have him in the £15m bracket.

I think he probably will go, we'll make some profit on him and not struggle that much in replacing him, hopefully with a couple of options.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:13 pm

Hearing that Gray is due to be called up for England. Bloody useless he is!

Walt · Post by **Walt** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:28 pm

Oliver Kay is saying Defoe is in. I'm a fan of Defoe, great finisher and also keen on not picking players just because of reputation.

If all strikers are fit is Defoe really going to make it next summer. Don't see value of recalling a 34 year old when he's unlikely to get in World Cup squad.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:30 pm

Andre Gray is no international striker whether you rate him or not. There's a case to be made for a call up due to the number of injuries in those positions, but there's just as much, if not more of a case to be made for Defoe considering neither will be a long-term option for England.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:34 pm

Walt wrote:Oliver Kay is saying Defoe is in. I'm a fan of Defoe, great finisher and also keen on not picking players just because of reputation.

If all strikers are fit is Defoe really going to make it next summer. Don't see value of recalling a 34 year old when he's unlikely to get in World Cup squad.

Age doesnt matter if you are as good as Defoe and as consistent. Especially in such a poor team.

Walt · Post by **Walt** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:36 pm

Pretty grim state of affairs up front at minute for England. If Kane is injured our next best option is Rashford and he's not getting a consistent run of games.

I hope Rashford gets himself a good Premier League loan next season.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:41 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Hearing that Gray is due to be called up for England. Bloody useless he is!

Walt wrote:Oliver Kay is saying Defoe is in. I'm a fan of Defoe, great finisher and also keen on not picking players just because of reputation.

If all strikers are fit is Defoe really going to make it next summer. Don't see value of recalling a 34 year old when he's unlikely to get in World Cup squad.

Matt Hughes in today's Times speaks of shortage of forwards given injuries. He mentions Carroll, Gray and Defoe but says Southgate has not been convinced in past and doesn't like short term fixes.

England play Lithuania - apart from German friendly. What's Lithuania's record like? Seriously, manager/coach should always be looking to progress the team, including dealing with injuries.

Walt · Post by **Walt** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:42 pm

I agree age doesn't matter but if Kane, Rooney, Rashford and Vardy are fit Defoe isn't going to be in World Cup squad.

I just don't see value of calling him up, he is capable anyone knows that should we get into a needs must next summer he'd be able to step in.

It's in this current scenario other options should be looked at like Deeney and Gray in my opinion. Like I've said a grim state of affairs when Deeney and Gray are options from an England point of view.