If we stay up

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:45 pm

we really cannot go in to another season with so little pace in the team, it's the reason we struggle away from home for me.

Braindead · Post by **Braindead** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:51 pm

Agreed. Also we are just not clinical enough when we get chances.
Hendrick aside we started with our Championship winning team which is functional, defensively strong and hard working but devoid of much in the way of creativity. We definitely require pace and also an upgrade on our strikers who can take the few chances that come our way.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:52 pm

We are staying up. And it'll be comfortably.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:54 pm

How on earth are we the complete opposite at home?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:58 pm

Spijed wrote:How on earth are we the complete opposite at home?

1 of 3 reasons: Poor tactics from the manager, a problem with mentality/psychology with the players, or both.

JimmyRobbo · Post by **JimmyRobbo** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:59 pm

Even though I don't completely agree with VC's verdict on today's game, I can see his logic here.
I think we all agree that we desperately need some more pace and trickery. We've needed it for a few seasons.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:01 pm

Spijed wrote:How on earth are we the complete opposite at home?

It's variance.

Every team has worse results away from home in the long run, it's just a quirk that it's so pronounced for us this season.

The tactics don't seem markedly different to me, we've just been on the wrong side of the fine margins away and the right side at home.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:02 pm

JimmyRobbo wrote:Even though I don't completely agree with VC's verdict on today's game, I can see his logic here.
I think we all agree that we desperately need some more pace and trickery. We've needed it for a few seasons.

Dyche recognises it, hence the acquisitions of Brady, Gray and Defour. It's a progressive thing though and it's a delicate task to avoid losing some of that solidity we've been so successful with - safety this season, then adapt slightly. Safety the following season, then adapt again. It's a tried and tested method. Look at Stoke and West Brom.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:14 pm

How many times ? "Pace and trickery" are not requirements of the framework. It's all about the framework. Evolution of the framework ? Possibly, but it will be slow, very slow.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:18 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:How many times ? "Pace and trickery" are not requirements of the framework. It's all about the framework. Evolution of the framework ? Possibly, but it will be slow, very slow.

Give over. Gray's quick, Brady's quick. Robertson from Hull - who was coming in January - he's quick too. Ings is quick. He did okay under Dyche. No reason whatsoever that the "framework" can't include quick players. As said before though - at the moment the players who fit the "framework" aren't blessed with pace. It's a balancing act.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:26 pm

Don't think Brady is particularly quick to be honest and I'm not sure your argument stacks up if you're including a player that is currently an employee of Hull City.
Gray is certainly THE exception if we're talking about pace.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:31 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:Don't think Brady is particularly quick to be honest and I'm not sure your argument stacks up if you're including a player that is currently an employee of Hull City.
Gray is certainly THE exception if we're talking about pace.

I know the reference to pace will be in the context of us going forward, but Keane is the quickest in the team.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:33 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:Don't think Brady is particularly quick to be honest and I'm not sure your argument stacks up if you're including a player that is currently an employee of Hull City.
Gray is certainly THE exception if we're talking about pace.

The Robertson reference is to show that Dyche and his team don't have this weird phobia of pace you're eluding too. That's clear.

I'd love some more pace in the team. I agree with you. I don't agree with you though on the issue that a Dyche team will never have more of it.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:34 pm

The Robertson reference is to show that Dyche and his team don't have this weird phobia of pace you're eluding too.

I'd love some more pace in the team. I agree with you. I don't agree with you though on the issue that a Dyche team will never have more of it.

cockermouthclaret · Post by **cockermouthclaret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:00 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:we really cannot go in to another season with so little pace in the team, it's the reason we struggle away from home for me.

Don't think it is a case of pace,speed or trickery not in individual cases anyway. It's more a case of ball retention, todays game is played quite simply there aren't any dribbling wingers or scheming inside forwards/wing halves. Todays game is all about ball retention passing the ball quickly and accurately, yes part of our midfield should come back and defend and when we have gained control the ball should be passed quickly and accurately through midfield. Yes we must have off the ball movement but this doesn't mean streaking down the wing at 90 miles an hour, make the ball do the work pass and move find your man. Good teams move the ball forward in reasonably short accurate passing movement retaining the ball, the final ball being threaded through behind the defence for strikers to move on to. It is not the object of the modern game to lump the ball forward down the so called "channels" and a player to set off after it like a greyhound leaving his team mates behind. With the quality/experience of the players we've brought in this season e.g. Barton, Ward, Hendricks, Defour and Brady this should not be difficult to achieve!

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:10 pm

The players we've bought this season were an upgrade to provide that ball retention, and we were all delighted and excited. BUT so far there has been very little delivery.
It's early days and players need time, but Brady isn't living up to expectations. Hendrick can be very hit or miss, today I thought he was missing, especially going forward. The injuries to JBG are frustrating because despite his price tag, he looks the best of the lot so far.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:55 pm

"Dyche recognises it, hence the acquisitions of Brady, Gray and Defour. It's a progressive thing though and it's a delicate task to avoid losing some of that solidity we've been so successful with - safety this season, then adapt slightly. Safety the following season, then adapt again. It's a tried and tested method. Look at Stoke and West Brom."

I kind of get that but, when results on the road are so poor, why does this evolution have to be at a snail's pace.
The craft and skills of the likes of Brady and Defour are there NOW to remedy the problem but the manager remains stubborn and reluctant to change. I compare it to Potts having McIlroy and Connelly at his disposal but leaving them out and refusing to recognise the quality they add to the team.
Not sure if it's stubborness or complete madness.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:12 pm

Defoe would be a start when Sunderland get relegated

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:33 pm

Tall Paul wrote:It's variance.

Every team has worse results away from home in the long run, it's just a quirk that it's so pronounced for us this season.

The tactics don't seem markedly different to me, we've just been on the wrong side of the fine margins away and the right side at home.

Every home team plays half the season at home. They play the other half at a different stadium every game - and are playing against a team which plays half their games there.

Then there's the number of home supporters v away supporters.

Some other things can change the balance of home advantage...

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:40 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:Don't think Brady is particularly quick to be honest and I'm not sure your argument stacks up if you're including a player that is currently an employee of Hull City.
Gray is certainly THE exception if we're talking about pace.

Three types of pace/speed: (1) speed of running/sprinting; (2) speed of controlling the ball and (3) speed of thinking/identifying and making the right pass.

Of course, we'd be Barcelona if the team had players strong in all 3 types of pace.

UTC

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:46 pm

Firthy wrote:Defoe would be a start when Sunderland get relegated

No thanks.

He will end up somewhere else who will pay his £60k a week and there's no guarantee he's going to score so prolifically next season and he's no spring chicken.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:58 pm

what's this "if" rubbish

look at the table, can anyone really see all those teams below us getting so good and/or us getting so bad such that we will end up in the bottom 3?

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