Boyd and Arfield

[burnley007]

No, I'm not going to slag them off. It's very easy to understand why SD plays them, I think they'll be very difficult to replace, but we have to if we want to move onto the next level.
I would love to see SD do a talk explaining what they add to the team, I reckon it would be pretty enlightening!
They both remind me of Dean Marney, but he gets treated like a hero!

[HelloHiGoodbye]

I would love to see SD do a talk explaining what they add to the team, I reckon it would be pretty enlightening!

Why? It's pretty clear.

[burnley007]

Yes, the basics are clear. But I still think there would be plenty of stuff we wouldn't pick up.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

They do an important job. Had this chat today both been absolutely fundamental in our recent success. Should we stay up we need to obviously have better to keep improving as a club but they have been absolutely fantastic servants to this club and two excellent players.

[Heaton's Gloves]

Work horses. Always give 100% but if we are to progress we need the pair of them gone next season. End of story.

[Duffer_]

Work horses. Always give 100% but if we are to progress we need the pair of them gone next season. End of story.

I think ambitions need to be tempered if we can't see a place in next season's squad for at least one of these.

UTC!

[boyyanno]

I love how much ground Boyd covers, but we need to address why he needs to cover it before we can replace him. Until we start having a bit more of the ball we'll need him to run and run all day.

[KRBFC]

Marney is a hero, you can slag off Arfield for being crap all you want but not Deano. I would love to see our record with/without Marney, he's the driving force in midfield that we currently miss badly.

[ablueclaret]

Boyd is a better player than the role he is asked to play. I fancy he might never recover the style he came here with.
Arfield is a top end. championship player with not quite enough pace or trickery at this level.
They have been magnificent servants of the club but realistically their defensive work is far more important than their attacking potential, and with our lack of creativity that is a problem.

[Wile E Coyote]

Work horses. Always give 100% but if we are to progress we need the pair of them gone next season. End of story.

why ? do you feel it would be easy to replace them as Burnley players in this set up? I don't.
On a day when we scraped a draw away to the divisions worst team, seems harsh to talk of binning them both so soon.
One might ask who else is ineffective or overrated ? I take the point this is about those two, but fairs fair !!!

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

How can anyone label Arfield 'crap'. Look at his goal return and assists. Pathetic to label him as 'crap' though unsurprising from some morons.

[Andreshotboots]

They have about as much creativity as stephen Hawkins

[burnley007]

Both need to remembered as major players in the recent growth under Dyche.

[Claretforever]

Arfield is good enough for most Championship clubs, and some PL club's, but he's not going to set the works alight. Boyd is the same, only Biys works so hard I feel like if a League One side plate 5 players plus Boyd they'd still win. He's much better than League One, but you get my point.

The trouble we have here is that IF we stay up we need to have more of an affect on games, and both of the aforementioned aren't good enough. We need to spend in the summer if we stay up. We have to begin to impose ourselves games.

[jrgbfc]

How can anyone label Arfield 'crap'. Look at his goal return and assists. Pathetic to label him as 'crap' though unsurprising from some morons.

I'll give Arfield his due his first year he was good, since then it's been two and a half years of extreme averageness. I must have missed all these goals and assists in that time as well.

[1968claret]

I do get annoyed when people describe these two as "workhorses" in almost derogatory terms.
Anyone with an ounce of football knowledge will know they offer far more than just running hard. Watch their positional play, watch how they all work as a unit to block angles, close down space, and make important tackles. This is a not just about running a lot as some seem to think.
I reckon some of the Arsenal players I saw yesterday could learn a thing or two from them.
Yes they are limited in terms of forward play, but don't just call them workhorses.

[Im_not_Robbie_Blake]

They have about as much creativity as stephen Hawkins

One of the most creative people of all time.

[Stayingup]

I've thought for a while the biggest job for Sean Dyche will be in replacing Marney and Barton. Notwithstanding we desperatley need a top striker.

[Sidney1st]

Define a top striker.

Then tell me who you'd sign.
How many top strikers are going to sign for us and also score x amount of goals?

[Roosterbooster]

How can anyone label Arfield 'crap'. Look at his goal return and assists. Pathetic to label him as 'crap' though unsurprising from some morons.

Whilst I don't believe in simple statistics being able to tell a story...

Scott Arfield:

63 Premier League appearances. 3 goals. 1 assist

And if you look at the more detailed analysis:

Shooting accuracy 20%
Shots per goal 26 (4% conversion rate)
Chances created per game 0.08
Crosses per game 1.1
Crossing accuracy 38%
Successful long passes per game 1.1
Through balls per game 0.1

So assuming he is there for his defensive work:

Tackles per game 1.6
Blocked shots per game 0.4
Interceptions per game 1.1
Duels won 35%
Aerial battles won 30%
Successful 50/50s per game 1.0
Recoveries per game 5.8

Just to compare his attacking stats to the other players who have featured out wide this season for us, and other than Boyd, they are much worse.

His defensive stats are slightly better, but given he is clearly in the team for his defensive duties, 35% of duels won is low.

I just don't see him as a Premier league player

[Blackrod]

Boyd needs upgrading but he clearly follows the managers instructions but as a result has lost any flair or confidence in the ball. Arfield should be a squad player at this level and not a shoe in but he currently offers more than Brady unfortunately. If we went down this season or next one player I would want us to have kept would be Arfield.

[claretspice]

The evidence that Arfield is a premier league player is in his pass to Barnes yesterday just before half time. It was very clever and creative - it took the Sunderland defence by surprise because it wasn't obvious - and it was also beautifully executed, with the outside of his foot, a hugely difficult skill executed perfectly. If Barnes had scored, the pundits would have been salivating about it.

Both Boyd and Arfield suit out set up because they are intelligent footballers who follow instructions (more important than it seems!) and do the basics well. It is easy to get sniffy about this but it is a key reason why we're mid-table and some more talented teams aren't. Both are decent on the ball - Boyd is more erratic but more capable of the spectacularly good and spectacularly bad, Arfield more solid and reliable - but it is fair to say that when we line up with the two of them wide, we can become a bit narrow and a bit predictable.

Personally, I think Arfield opposite Brady is the better balance - Arfield keeps the ball better, and it is no coincidence that almost all our best moves yesterday involved him receiving the ball in an inside forward position, drawing men and then laying it wide. I can't think of any equivalent chances that Boyd was the architect of, and indeed it is a long old time since I can recall Boyd creating much. He's a bit older and I think he's a touch less effective than he was 2 years ago, both in attack and defence (I think he's lost half a yard of pace off the mark).

Perhaps if we improve the squad in the summer, neither will be guaranteed a place in the squad, but I'd have no problem with Arfield remaining a player who starts 15-20 matches next season. We underestimate what he offers at our peril.

[Wilsdenclaret]

Don't think we've missed Marney that much this time around

[Parkvilla]

"The evidence Arfield is a premier league player was his pass to Barnes with the outside of his foot."It was a shot you plum.That shot showed how much quality Arfield has.It was up there with his appalling free kick in 1st half and his awful attempt at taking corners.Both him and Boyd need replacing.

[Andreshotboots]

One of the most creative people of all time.

Not playing on the right hand side or left hand side of a midfield 4 I wouldn't imagine!!

[claretspice]

"The evidence Arfield is a premier league player was his pass to Barnes with the outside of his foot."It was a shot you plum.That shot showed how much quality Arfield has.It was up there with his appalling free kick in 1st half and his awful attempt at taking corners.Both him and Boyd need replacing.

It certainly wasn't a shot. If he'd wanted to shoot he'd have let the ball come across him (it was on) rather than flicking it from out in from of him, and he wouldn't have looked at Barnes rather than the goal as he executed it. Interestingly bbc gave him man of the match, partly because of that moment of real quality. Still, if it suits your negative outlook to deny all that and insist it was a shot then so no it.

Cant argue on the first half free kick, which was wasteful, but Arfield's corners have been pretty good and he's taking them became Dyche thinks he's better at them than Barton. Barton presumably agrees because he's hardly a shrinking violet and he happily left every set piece to Arfield, including that one.

[Parkvilla]

Like his attempt to back heel the ball near the end Another piece of brilliance from the Canadian Pele.

[claretspice]

Like his attempt to back heel the ball near the end Another piece of brilliance from the Canadian Pele.

You're a bit of a berk, arent you?

[Parkvilla]

Sorry Mr Arfield

[IanMcL]

This is a team in transition. Its strongest asset is the loyalty shown by management, players and crowd to EVERYONE ELSE.

First season up - things to upgrade costing lots of dosh. Need for behind the scenes stability and growth. Therefore reasonable but limited transfer funds (in comparison with the top half of the prem and some failed bottom halfers.

The team which went 23 undefeated was supplemented. The style and tactics are precise. Anything less than fulfilment of duty and the whole thing unravels.

Arfield and Boyd have the two most demanding jobs. That is why their distance stats are out of this world.

They add bodies to the front out wide and in the middle and are ALWAYS the ones who do the lung busting runs to supplement the defenders. When a team wants to take us on down the wings, they are doubling up with the full backs. That means it takes 3 usually, to get past. Not many try that, owing to the risk of a break which our style and tactics demand. Long ball and run onto it, bypassing midfield, which has been largely about breaking up play and trying to get us going, despite being outnumbered. This is why we have 2 workhorses there. Barton and Hendrick.

To break this mould takes time and a quantum leap of style, which would bring Defour into play and he would distribute to very fast, non defensive wide players.

Brady is not lightening fast nor has he beaten anyone. In fact he has lost the ball on just about every occasion and then watched the opposition disappear at pace into our half, as he stands and gazes. So, on current form and application, he cannot break the mould. That is why Defour finds game time difficult and why, at this moment, Arfield and Boyd are the two early names on the team sheet. They guarantee stability.

Boyd has been compromised, for sure. We have seen him glide past players, when playing for Peterborough and scoring regularly. Arfield is ideal for this role, above all others. he has skill but not to the highest level. However, he has commitment (as does Boyd) beyond just about the whole prem.

Not sure how the transition will work out. I am extremely happy at my team's commitment to retaining our place in the prem.
Up the Clarets.

[MACCA]

Not read all the thread but here is my view.

Boyd and Arfield - If they play for Burnley next season we wont improve nor have the staff identified our weak links, whilst going forward the creativity or game plan/approach doesn't look like changing.

[Stalbansclaret]

That's still very much a "first world problem" in footballing terms though isn't it ! Boyd and Arfield have been instrumental in getting us into the PL and now, hopefully, keeping us there. Others, above, have defined their many virtues. In terms of us getting better I'm not sure who these players are who can defend like these two do AND offer pace and flair going forward. So far the signs are that one £13M signing has found it pretty difficult (early days I know) so it will be a challenge unless we switch to a whole different "framework".

[Dark Cloud]

I have to agree with ablueclaret earlier in the thread when he says that what SD sees in both is primarily their defensive qualities. They are basically extra full backs the way we deploy them and one reason why we have been so hard to beat for several seasons now. Their qualities (or otherwise) going forward are almost irrelevant in SD's framework. However away from home against PL opposition they are increasingly being found out to some extent and I am absolutely certain that the minute we are safe from the drop the club will start looking at targets to upgrade that area. but remember wingers who can genuinely defend and track back AND actually go on the offensive, get at the opposition and put over telling crosses are few and far between and don't come cheap. Having said that both Arfield and Boyd have been tremendous for us and have played a huge part in getting us where we are.

[KefkaClaret]

It seems for some fans that if you work hard you should be completely exempt from criticism.