Staying up this season is as important as...

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:03 pm

getting promoted last season.

Discuss

bodge · Post by **bodge** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:07 pm

Without doubt, great point today, consigned Sunderland to relegation i reckon , one less place to worry about.

As Charlie Nicholas said on Soccer Saturday SD is building our club slowly but surely, happy days.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:07 pm

Financially it's pretty much exactly the same.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:09 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Financially it's pretty much exactly the same.

The same? Surely, better ??

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:11 pm

I's say staying up is MORE important. It shows we've improved on the last time we were in the Prem and showed we've moved forward. And moving forward is the only goal.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:14 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I's say staying up is MORE important. It shows we've improved on the last time we were in the Prem and showed we've moved forward. And moving forward is the only goal.

So, why don't we feel as upbeat about staying up as getting promoted ??

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:15 pm

Ooh, oxygen.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:15 pm

"The same? Surely, better ??"

No, £105 million for finishing 17th this season, as a result of promotion, and the same next season as a result of staying up.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:16 pm

RalphCoatesComb wrote:So, why don't we feel as upbeat about staying up as getting promoted ??

Because we haven't stayed up yet. I'll be as chuffed to bits as any other Burnley fan if we're confirmed as staying up. I don't like to get too carried away before it happens. Last season, I was only relieved once we were mathematically up. I'll be even happier this season.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:24 pm

if/when we stay up it will be the biggest Burnley FC achievement in my lifetime

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:29 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Because we haven't stayed up yet. I'll be as chuffed to bits as any other Burnley fan if we're confirmed as staying up. I don't like to get too carried away before it happens. Last season, I was only relieved once we were mathematically up. I'll be even happier this season.

Hi Frank, when do you think we will be mathematically certain to stay up? I'm hoping it's after the Crystal Palace game - but, I won't be disappointed if it's a little earlier than that.

UTC

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:34 pm

Relax.

We're staying up.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:37 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:if/when we stay up it will be the biggest Burnley FC achievement in my lifetime

And mine

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:41 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Frank, when do you think we will be mathematically certain to stay up? I'm hoping it's after the Crystal Palace game - but, I won't be disappointed if it's a little earlier than that.
UTC

Well mathematically certain to stay up is of course only when we can't be caught.
But I presume you mean when do I think we'll be too far clear to be caught, including our remaining games to pick up the odd point here or there - That would have been today had we won. We need another win I think, maybe a win and a draw in the next 9 to pretty much put the bottom 3 beyond reach.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:42 pm

Staying up the season after.

Longsider · Post by **Longsider** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:42 pm

Staying up attracts new players

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:44 pm

Defour Brady Tarka and other spare parts.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:49 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Frank, when do you think we will be mathematically certain to stay up? I'm hoping it's after the Crystal Palace game - but, I won't be disappointed if it's a little earlier than that.

UTC

When there aren't enough games left for others to catch us.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:54 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Well mathematically certain to stay up is of course only when we can't be caught.
But I presume you mean when do I think we'll be too far clear to be caught, including our remaining games to pick up the odd point here or there - That would have been today had we won. We need another win I think, maybe a win and a draw in the next 9 to pretty much put the bottom 3 beyond reach.

I'm thinking when the "magic numbers" show at least 3 clubs that can't get as many points as Burnley have, i.e. even if Burnley lose all games from that point we will still be certain to be higher than 18th.

I've just looked at magic numbers after today's results: if Burnley win and a team below loses their magic number drops by 6. Sunderland are currently on 19, Hull and Swansea slightly above. Boro have game(s) in hand so higher again.

So, will be a minimum of 4 games - if results go our way. Palace is 6 games away....maybe I am a little optimistic.

UTC

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:38 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:"The same? Surely, better ??"

No, £105 million for finishing 17th this season, as a result of promotion, and the same next season as a result of staying up.

It's not exactly the same though is it. With £1.25m for every position higher we can finish in the table. Plus staying up guarantees the £105m for 2 years rather than just the one.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:31 am

The money.
Shouldn't need ground improvements unless of our choosing.
Gawthorpe will be fully open.
Cash for SD to improve his side where he wants and to take us forward again.
Hopefully a better quality of apprentices coming into the club.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:06 am

as virtually anything that has everhappened to the club apart from
possibly staying up in the league when we came very close to going out.
Can't recall when that was now?
Was it the 80's?
Remember going to the game at Crewe where we lost 1-0
and we had to win our last game which we did.
The start of the game was delayed for 15 minutes if I recall and
we were on the National News in the evening.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:27 am

Is as important as..........making it to the toilet after a night out when it's touch and go in the taxi home. You hope you will you are sure you will but it's still a massive relief.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:00 am

RammyClaret61 wrote:It's not exactly the same though is it. With £1.25m for every position higher we can finish in the table. Plus staying up guarantees the £105m for 2 years rather than just the one.

I think it's closer to £2m per position, with the bottom club receiving around £97m. You also get more money if you appear on TV more than the 10 times which is included in the £97m.

Staying up also guarantees a third year's parachute payment, whereas if you go up Andy straight back down you don't get that smaller third instalment of around £14m.

All in all, staying up means we can take a few more risks with a guaranteed £111m extra, and because of the 3rd parachute payment it means we could possibly have a go at coming back up if relegated without worrying too much (still being wary) about FFP for 12 months.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:17 am

RalphCoatesComb wrote:getting promoted last season.

Discuss

No. If we didn't go up last season we wouldn't be going up this season because Brighton and Newcastle are better than we were last season.

If we went down this season those two wouldn't be in the Championship and it'd be easier to get promoted.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:20 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:No. If we didn't go up last season we wouldn't be going up this season because Brighton and Newcastle are better than we were last season.

If we went down this season those two wouldn't be in the Championship and it'd be easier to get promoted.

Which one of them 2 have gone 23 unbeaten ?

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:37 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:No. If we didn't go up last season we wouldn't be going up this season because Brighton and Newcastle are better than we were last season.

If we went down this season those two wouldn't be in the Championship and it'd be easier to get promoted.

They are better than we were last season? They've both lost more games than we did in the whole season, with 8 games still to play. Newcastle have had the double done on them by Bl*ckbrn and Fulham(we didn't have a single double done on us last season), and neither have gone a whole half season undefeated.

Better than us?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:47 am

Mid table and financially stable.

What's not to like?!

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:54 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:No. If we didn't go up last season we wouldn't be going up this season because Brighton and Newcastle are better than we were last season.

Not sure how that works. We weren't playing Messi-esque stuff but we were very professional and I'm sure we would have done the same this season, then again, we don't have to because we have made t'Turf a fortress. Even when we have dropped points at home, we were unlucky.

k90bfc · Post by **k90bfc** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:47 pm

The Fantastic new Training Ground,is More than worth staying up,we have now jumped 10 Years Ahead!Be greatful.UTC.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:59 pm

bfcjg wrote:Is as important as..........making it to the toilet after a night out when it's touch and go in the taxi home. You hope you will you are sure you will but it's still a massive relief.

I think I may have got in a taxi after you've just got out! (more than once actually)

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:36 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:They are better than we were last season? They've both lost more games than we did in the whole season, with 8 games still to play. Newcastle have had the double done on them by Bl*ckbrn and Fulham(we didn't have a single double done on us last season), and neither have gone a whole half season undefeated.

Better than us?

I'll admit it's subjective but if number of losses is evidence that we were better, what is the fact that they have more points than we do after 38 games? (75)

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:31 am

jurek wrote:as virtually anything that has everhappened to the club apart from
possibly staying up in the league when we came very close to going out.
Can't recall when that was now?
Was it the 80's?
Remember going to the game at Crewe where we lost 1-0
and we had to win our last game which we did.
The start of the game was delayed for 15 minutes if I recall and
we were on the National News in the evening.

Is that the Crewe game when the ref blew up early? I was there and remember being bloody furious!!

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:05 am

ElectroClaret wrote:Relax.

We're staying up.

Not exactly factual at the moment though, however likely it may be.

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:52 am

...keeping Sean Dyche.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:56 am

Staying up this season is vital because its the next step for a club that been promoted to the premier league.

1st job is to stay up, 2nd job is to stay up again.

The reality is that we will be one of the favourites for relegation every season, however many times we stay up. I'd take that in a heartbeat.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:57 am

dibraidio wrote:...keeping Sean Dyche.

For me, that has to be the Board's No.1 priority!

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:59 am

Royboyclaret wrote:Financially it's pretty much exactly the same.

It's immediately not the same due to the fact that teams going straight back down get reduced parachute payments

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:00 am

dibraidio wrote:...keeping Sean Dyche.

Sean Dyche will decide that - and that will depend on what offers he might get

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:07 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'll admit it's subjective but if number of losses is evidence that we were better, what is the fact that they have more points than we do after 38 games? (75)

Different league last season.

For a start, no-0one was as abject as Rotherham who are so poor they are as far adrift of 23rd as the total points they have all season (17). They are effectively a point gift and both the top two have played them twice already.

Then last year there were always three, often four teams at the top exchanging places and the fight for the title went to the wire. This season the more consistent Championship contenders have failed to fire. Derby have been poor, Villa and Norwich failed to register much effort at all, and Ipswich Brum and Cardiff have also struggled.

Reading have managed to kick start again and Leeds have finally started to roll a bit with keeping a manager for more than 5 minutes. But neither are any great shakes as a good side - certainly nothing as good as Hull, Boro or even Derby last season. Fulham (abject last season) and Huddersfield (also abject) have both decent shouts at promotion. In fact Huddersfield (say that again) Huddersfield are third.

No wonder Brighton and Newcastle have managed to open up a 6 point gap to third.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:10 am

The next season is always the most important, then the one after. I reckon every season at this level is a bonus now. We've paid off the debt, built the training ground, raised our profile etc. We'll go down eventually but the biggest season we've had in the last 30 years was 2008/9. Staying up would be nice but going down whenever it happens won't be the disaster not winning that play-off final would have been.

Re. Dyche, let's not get sucked into another messiah complex. He's a really good manager, ideal for our club and I hope he stays for a few years yet. But he's not the only manager out there, Swansea have been through quite a few during their Prem years but are always looking for the next one rather than throwing the towel in once one leaves.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:18 am

RalphCoatesComb wrote:So, why don't we feel as upbeat about staying up as getting promoted ??

Because when you are playing for promotion you are winning most of your games and playing well.

When you are playing to avoid relegation against better teams you aren't winning most of your games and thankful for a draw on occasions.

It's a completely different mindset between playing to win and playing not to lose.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:25 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:No. If we didn't go up last season we wouldn't be going up this season because Brighton and Newcastle are better than we were last season.

If we went down this season those two wouldn't be in the Championship and it'd be easier to get promoted.

Surely if we didn't go up last season Brighton would have took our spot?

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:27 am

NottsClaret wrote: Re. Dyche, let's not get sucked into another messiah complex. He's a really good manager, ideal for our club and I hope he stays for a few years yet. But he's not the only manager out there, Swansea have been through quite a few during their Prem years but are always looking for the next one rather than throwing the towel in once one leaves.

Not a messiah complex. If Sean Dyche stays we will continue to evolve. With a few quality additions I think he could have us pushing for top ten next season. If we change manager we'll need to adapt and our target for next season will be survival. The time will come when Sean goes elsewhere but I hope he gives us another season or two before taking on a bigger challenge.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:48 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'll admit it's subjective but if number of losses is evidence that we were better, what is the fact that they have more points than we do after 38 games? (75)

Let's judge the points total and number of defeats at the end of the season.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:51 am

dibraidio wrote:Not a messiah complex. If Sean Dyche stays we will continue to evolve. With a few quality additions I think he could have us pushing for top ten next season. If we change manager we'll need to adapt and our target for next season will be survival. The time will come when Sean goes elsewhere but I hope he gives us another season or two before taking on a bigger challenge.

A bigger challenge?! Can there be a bigger challenge than trying to keep the likes of KBRFC happy?

Why can't SD become our Ferguson, Shankley, or Wenger??

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:17 am

Its quite bizarre, but SD is just not getting linked with bigger jobs.

I'm more confident that he's going to stay than I was a few months ago.

It sounds really weird saying this, but we are on the verge of being a club that maintains it place in the richest league in the world.

There are plenty bigger clubs out there, but SD has just as much a chance of winning stuff with us (other than the big six of seven).

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:37 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its quite bizarre, but SD is just not getting linked with bigger jobs.

I'm more confident that he's going to stay than I was a few months ago.

It sounds really weird saying this, but we are on the verge of being a club that maintains it place in the richest league in the world.

There are plenty bigger clubs out there, but SD has just as much a chance of winning stuff with us (other than the big six of seven).

Obviously, money will be the biggest factor BUT, we have the money, we have the facilities of a traditional Club (that he is helping to build), he can virtually call the tune. Why would he want to leave with his stock in the ascendancy? To go to the likes of Derby, Villa, or even Forest (who may be swopping with our nearest and dearest neighbours in the bottom 3 of the Championship very soon)?

Messiah? Nah... but he's not a very naughty boy either!

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:00 pm

It all depends on the level of candidate we could attract whether Dyche leaving would impact us or not.

Based on staying up then Burnley football club will be in as good a position as ever to attract a quality boss.
With the new training facilities and finance we might be able to get one of Spains/France/Germanys or Italys managers outside of the champions league clubs that play a lot better style of football than Dyche.

If we are still shopping on the free list like Laws and Dyche etc it would be a travesty.