Ulvestad

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:35 am

Any news on how Freddie is doing at Charlton?

Assume he's played his last game for Burnley, but wondered if anyone had heard how he has progressed?

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:42 am

Another 1 i rated better than jones

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:30 am

He's been injured hasn't he?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:06 am

cutsy123 wrote:Another 1 i rated better than jones

Well done with that one - good job nobody at the club agreed with you.

Unbelievable the flack that some of the fans give David Jones on this board - complete lack of appreciation as to what he did for the club and some fans just think it was a coincidence that our record was so good when Jones and Marney started together. As soon as Jones pulled on a claret shirt we went from a midfield who constantly gave the ball away to one that retained it.

And then for people to say the likes of Ulvedtaad are better players just shows more ignorance - based on what ?

Is it the 30 minutes of football you saw him play ?

Or is it the startling season he has had in division one ?

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:17 am

TVC15 wrote:Well done with that one - good job nobody at the club agreed with you.

Unbelievable the flack that some of the fans give David Jones on this board - complete lack of appreciation as to what he did for the club and some fans just think it was a coincidence that our record was so good when Jones and Marney started together. As soon as Jones pulled on a claret shirt we went from a midfield who constantly gave the ball away to one that retained it.

And then for people to say the likes of Ulvedtaad are better players just shows more ignorance - based on what ?

Is it the 30 minutes of football you saw him play ?

Or is it the startling season he has had in division one ?

Superb post. A Charlton fan of mine doesn't rate FU.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:38 am

cutsy123 wrote:Another 1 i rated better than jones

Strange thought - adequately responded to by TVC15

Freddie was doing OK at Charlton until Karl Robinson took over as manager. He changed system and said in the press down there that he now had two players for one position and Freddie would have to miss out. That led to him making just one substitute appearance throughout January and February. But he's won his place back and started every game this month. He's made 24 league appearances for them with only that one appearance in January from the bench.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:41 am

Quicknick wrote:Superb post. A Charlton fan of mine doesn't rate FU.

I know it's all about different opinions and it's a message board etc....but when I see some of the stuff that has been said about Jones it's actually a bit embarrassing.

He was an integral part of 2 promotion winning teams and aswell as being a really intelligent footballer he was great with the fans and very clearly a player all the other players and staff really respected.

We got him on a free transfer and especially with the first promotion defied all odds in going up....and Jones was brilliant in that season.

Yet some fans still dig him out and come up with cr-ap like Ulvedtaad - who struggled to even make our bench - is a "better" player than Jones.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:45 am

TVC15 wrote:Well done with that one - good job nobody at the club agreed with you.

Unbelievable the flack that some of the fans give David Jones on this board - complete lack of appreciation as to what he did for the club and some fans just think it was a coincidence that our record was so good when Jones and Marney started together. As soon as Jones pulled on a claret shirt we went from a midfield who constantly gave the ball away to one that retained it.

And then for people to say the likes of Ulvedtaad are better players just shows more ignorance - based on what ?

Is it the 30 minutes of football you saw him play ?

Or is it the startling season he has had in division one ?

We've never played retain ball since Dyche has been at the club. Our midfield has always been lightweight and adverse to dictating play.

Ulvestad certainly had more attacking attributes than Jones there's no question ( not that that's overly difficult )

It's all academic anyway as we won't see either in a claret shirt again.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:53 am

Did I just read that as soon as we signed Jones we became a team that retained the ball?

I know the Jones haters get called for not understanding football/watching games, but that posters is very much in the same bracket.
We have never, ever played keep ball or possession based football under Dyche. ( not that it's a bad thing )

A clone of Jones and ulvestad would have been some player, sadly they are both very different types of footballer who for the great situation we now find ourselves in, are not good enough for us anymore.

But good luck to both of them, they both played their part on this incredible journey under Mr Dyche.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:59 am

I thought Freddie looked a decent shout for a subs spot.With Defour injured and Johann serially injured he was a good backup as was Rouven and Sean clearly doesn't rate either of them.
're Jonah he could put the ball on strikers heads from free kicks and corners .Those fans with amnesia might like reminding it was his cross to Sam who scored v QPR that took us back up
He was a very good signing for the Champioship but then so are some of our current squad.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:28 am

'The Jones Files'. A regular starter(and finisher) in two promotions from the Championship to the Premier League. What do we know about him 'off the field'? Not much. A professional in all senses of the word whose vital contribution to where we are now is sadly besmirched on here far too regularly.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:38 am

MACCA wrote:Did I just read that as soon as we signed Jones we became a team that retained the ball?

I know the Jones haters get called for not understanding football/watching games, but that posters is very much in the same bracket.
We have never, ever played keep ball or possession based football under Dyche. ( not that it's a bad thing )

A clone of Jones and ulvestad would have been some player, sadly they are both very different types of footballer who for the great situation we now find ourselves in, are not good enough for us anymore.

But good luck to both of them, they both played their part on this incredible journey under Mr Dyche.

We retained it as in Jones was the one who made himself available for the ball and sat deep to take it from the defenders and then start the move. He was a good passer of the ball and more often than not made the right decision.

Marney had his own good attributes - but he would often play the difficult pass and lose the ball.

It's very simplistic to follow the band wagon and say Dyche's team are long ball or don't retain the ball. That's rubbish - we just get rid of it quicker - or in technical terms the "transition" is quicker. That is not the same as just hoofing the ball.

If we had not had good players like Jones, Barton, Defour and the likes of Trippier who pass the ball into the areas our forwards are running into - then it would be just hoof ball and we'd be in the first or second division.

I'm sure Jones would have been able to "retain" the ball in a Man City or Liverpool way where they pass it between their back 4 and holding midfield players 20 or 30 times without getting anywhere....but that is not how we play so what Jones did was retain the ball by controlling it and finding another player in space - usually it was a short ball but whilst he is doing this other players like Ings or Gray are making their runs for Tripps, Lowton or other players to play the ball into.

Or I could have just made this post a lot shorter by asking why do you think you know more about how important Jones was to the team and our success than Dyche ?!!!!

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:47 am

Right_winger wrote:We've never played retain ball since Dyche has been at the club. Our midfield has always been lightweight and adverse to dictating play.

Ulvestad certainly had more attacking attributes than Jones there's no question ( not that that's overly difficult )

It's all academic anyway as we won't see either in a claret shirt again.

"Of that there's no question"

Really ? You seem very definite about this.

How many assists and goals did FU get for Burnley ?

I'll tell you what in that couple of hours of football Ulvedtaad played for Burnley some of our fans think they saw Zidane in a claret shirt the way they describe him now.

The facts are that he hardly played for Burnley - he did ok for 30 minutes at Arsenal in the cup and in reality did very little else. I am pretty sure he started a league game or had to come on early in a game because of injuries and he had a terrible game and Dyche made a polite comment after the match about it being "tough" for FU. We did not see him anywhere near the first team for a good few games after that.

I guess we bought FU because we thought he could step up from the poor league he has been playing in - he never did step up and still hasn't at Charlton.

Any comparison to Jones' career playing regularly in the top 2 divisions for 10 years is ridiculous - I`m not sure FU has played one full game in the Championship and is in and out of a Charlton side only 6 points from the relegation places and being in the same league as Newport !!!

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:19 am

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jones_(footballer,_born_1984" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
David Jones wiki page. Read it and weep, haters. That's been a good career.
He received nothing but praise when he first arrived for the speed and accuracy of his passing. Anybody who thinks SDs first promotion side was hoofball has had their head in the sand.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:22 am

Right_winger wrote:We've never played retain ball since Dyche has been at the club. Our midfield has always been lightweight and adverse to dictating play.

Ulvestad certainly had more attacking attributes than Jones there's no question ( not that that's overly difficult )

It's all academic anyway as we won't see either in a claret shirt again.

More absolute nonsense about Jones who was undoubtedly one of the key players in both promotions.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:23 am

So that's 2 threads today about other players that have turned into threads about Jones.

Is it just easier to merge them now?

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:38 am

ClaretTony wrote:More absolute nonsense about Jones who was undoubtedly one of the key players in both promotions.

So you think that Jones has more attacking attributes then Ulvestadt?

I don't get the sensitivity over Jones at all.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:48 am

Right_winger wrote:So you think that Jones has more attacking attributes then Ulvestadt?

I don't get the sensitivity over Jones at all.

I think Jones was better in every way than Ulvestad. It's not sensitivity over Jones but appreciation. It was absolutely clear how key he was in the two promotions. Jones was an outstanding signing and I don't get how some couldn't see it.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:49 am

Right_winger wrote:So you think that Jones has more attacking attributes then Ulvestadt?

I don't get the sensitivity over Jones at all.

What does that even mean ? Attacking attributes as in he tries to move it forward and loses the ball ?

Have you seen him dribble ? No
Have you seen him shoot ? No
Have you seen him cross it ? No
Have you seen him thread through balls to our attackers ? No

How many goals or assists as he ever had for Burnley ?

Do you have another definition of what "attacking" means as I am struggling to understand what you are on about ?

The "sensitivity" about Jones is because most fans realise what a good player he was and how important he was for the team. This sensitivity is heightened when fans come out with unsubstantiated rubbish like Ulvestaad was a better player with absolutely zero to back it up. This is more about a small minority of fans trying to justify their dislike for Jones by coming out with cr-ap like this.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:58 am

Most people who I have heard slate Jones have a poor understanding of the game. Pivotal in our promotions and a good player for us. An idiot who sits near me shouted at Jones every game and now shouts at Gray. He shouts at him to run for the ball when he is 50 yards away. He was nowhere to be seen following his hat trick. Clueless.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:09 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I think Jones was better in every way than Ulvestad. It's not sensitivity over Jones but appreciation. It was absolutely clear how key he was in the two promotions. Jones was an outstanding signing and I don't get how some couldn't see it.

That may be your view.

I'm not saying Ulvestadt was for one minute a better player than Jones, but I did say that he has better attacking attributes.

Ulvestadt in his short game time with us, could actually carry the ball forward, slip through a player with a through ball and get into more attacking positions. Jones couldn't do any of those things. I also think Ulvestadt is better in the air than Jones.

Now when it comes to positioning and reading of the game Jones is the better player in that sense.

Neither are anywhere near good enough for us.

Sproggy · Post by **Sproggy** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:14 pm

I also thought FU looked like he had the potential to be a real player in the short cameos he played.

Then he started away at Fulham.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:16 pm

TVC15 wrote:What does that even mean ? Attacking attributes as in he tries to move it forward and loses the ball ?

Have you seen him dribble ? No
Have you seen him shoot ? No
Have you seen him cross it ? No
Have you seen him thread through balls to our attackers ? No

How many goals or assists as he ever had for Burnley ?

Do you have another definition of what "attacking" means as I am struggling to understand what you are on about ?

The "sensitivity" about Jones is because most fans realise what a good player he was and how important he was for the team. This sensitivity is heightened when fans come out with unsubstantiated rubbish like Ulvestaad was a better player with absolutely zero to back it up. This is more about a small minority of fans trying to justify their dislike for Jones by coming out with cr-ap like this.

Arguments about assists and goals are not valid due to the amount of games or lack of games played. Hell even Jones has a better strike rate then Jutkiewicz if you want to get into silly statistical arguments.

I haven't said Ulvestadt is better than Jones. I have stated that he has better attacking attributes. He could carry the ball and tried to thread passes through. Jones couldn't.

Again that doesn't mean he is a better player. Personally think they are both poor centre mids. But again that another argument.

Watch the defence of Juke now

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:22 pm

Jones was a vital part of a great Burnley team for a number of years. Ulvestad made a couple of promising cameos and has subsequently looked like a struggling League 1 player ever since and will sadly be no more than a footnote in the history of Burnley FC.

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:28 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I think Jones was better in every way than Ulvestad. It's not sensitivity over Jones but appreciation. It was absolutely clear how key he was in the two promotions. Jones was an outstanding signing and I don't get how some couldn't see it.

From what i saw of ulvestad he had the potential to replace jones had he got the chance.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:44 pm

Right_winger wrote:Arguments about assists and goals are not valid due to the amount of games or lack of games played. Hell even Jones has a better strike rate then Jutkiewicz if you want to get into silly statistical arguments.

I haven't said Ulvestadt is better than Jones. I have stated that he has better attacking attributes. He could carry the ball and tried to thread passes through. Jones couldn't.

Again that doesn't mean he is a better player. Personally think they are both poor centre mids. But again that another argument.

Watch the defence of Juke now

It`s not about statistics its about facts - and clearly you can`t use statistics to compare them because Jones has played so many more games. But there is a reason why Jones has played many more games....and its quite an important reason !!

The point was when have you seen Ulvestaad do any of the things I listed ?....even in the brief cameos he had for Burnley I never saw him doing what you seem to be intimating he is better than Jones at doing.

You say he could carry the ball and tried to thread passes through....what`s the point of that if none of the passes got through ? Tell me a time he ever threaded a ball through and we scored.

FU was not strong, big or quick enough for the championship.

And the comment that he was better in the air than Jones is just as silly....its people making stuff up to suit their agenda against Jones. Who can seriously remember FU ever heading a ball in a Burnley shirt ?

As I said in the few minutes he played for us we have him as box to box attacking forward like Roy Keane, great passer of the ball threading the ball through an eye of a needle for Vokes and Ings to slot it in, and as good in the air as Joe Jordan and Nat Lofthouse put together.

Some player this Ulvestaad.....and United spent £100m on Pogba when they could have got Freddy !

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:54 pm

Jones wasn't there for goals or assists. He was the link man who kept it moving. Whilst Deano was the up and downer who could carry the ball.
Excellent in any championship side, back then, he was caught out at PL level by the speed he was closed down.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:57 pm

cutsy123 wrote:From what i saw of ulvestad he had the potential to replace jones had he got the chance.

Did well in the Cup games last season at Middlesbrough & Arsenal but only two league starts for us at Villa & Fulham where he was dreadful.

Great ball through for Andre at Bolton but to even compare him with Jones is as far fetched as it can get.

Claret&Green · Post by **Claret&Green** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:01 pm

Jones detractors just didn't like him coz he'd played for b@$+@?ds

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:42 pm

Claret&Green wrote:Jones detractors just didn't like him coz he'd played for b@$+@?ds

So did Michael Keane - there is absolutely no logic nor common sense to the criticism of Jones.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:47 pm

How can anybody make a comparison between Ulvestad and Jones, when Ulvestad has hardly played any games for us.

Jones played a major part in a promotion season and EPL season. What has Ulvestad ever done in a Burnley shirt, nothing

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:52 pm

The simple logic is people like different types of players, Some like defensive simple passers, some like runners and some like flair players.

If we keep in the premier league for a few seasons we might attract a player that can do all three.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:38 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Strange thought - adequately responded to by TVC15

Freddie was doing OK at Charlton until Karl Robinson took over as manager. He changed system and said in the press down there that he now had two players for one position and Freddie would have to miss out. That led to him making just one substitute appearance throughout January and February. But he's won his place back and started every game this month. He's made 24 league appearances for them with only that one appearance in January from the bench.

Cheers for the update Tony. Doubt he plays for us again but hopefully he can build up from League one. I think he'll be decent once he gets used to the English game.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:39 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Great ball through for Andre at Bolton but to even compare him with Jones is as far fetched as it can get.

Scarily, I think that's what most people are basing things on - that ONE pass. Had he not done that pass, there would be no threads about him.

Tinribs · Post by **Tinribs** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:03 pm

Right_winger wrote:So you think that Jones has more attacking attributes then Ulvestadt?

I don't get the sensitivity over Jones at all.

What attacking attributes did anyone see from Ulvestad ?wht you goin off his match attax stats or fifa15 ratings ? The lad didnt get any gametime.if he had been anywhere near david Jones level and shown it on the training pitch or dev squad matches,the manager would have selected him.

David Jones was immense for Burnley i used to watch him play 90 mins week in week out and nevet put a foot wrong.There was a simpleton behind me who slagged him off every week." Use your f@@@in right foot" was his favourite.

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