Club Accounts Released

[Clarets4me]

"Why does it feel like we're repaying directors loans every year, regardless of how much money we're making?"


This current financial year, to Jun'17, is the first year in recent memory that there have been zero loans outstanding from the Board. So basically thanks to them propping up the business we have been able to operate in a realistic way and achieve three promotions in the last eight years. Different levels outstanding at various year-ends but all seven of them have made a contribution at some time or another.

For that reason it's probably justified that at times of success they are rewarded too and the reason for the difference in the players & staff promotion bonus of £11.3m and the overall bonus of £13.2m.

RBC... I thought the difference between the £13.2m and the £11.3m might be fees payable to Clubs from which we'd bought players as part of Transfer fee "add ons "...

[jojomk1]

Promotional bonus bill equates to almost an additional 50% extra on total wage spend
And I used to be happy with around 5%
But next year's figures will show it to be money well spent

[Tall Paul]

RBC... I thought the difference between the £13.2m and the £11.3m might be fees payable to Clubs from which we'd bought players as part of Transfer fee "add ons "...

That's probably the case. If the bonuses were payable to the board it would have had to be included in directors' remuneration.

[Hipper]

I was reading something about Man Utd under the Glazers and how they thought United had not fully developed their commercial potential. As a result, since they took over the club they have succeeded in increasing commercial income many fold (as well of course paying themselves handsomely).

Have we commercial potential to realise and the people employed to exploit it?

[k90bfc]

We have come on leaps and bounds since 1987,Still have the raffle tickets stubs,from Improve The Team Fund,Book of ten,£1,Promoter Tommy Cummings,What a Dream come True,where we are today,and truly grateful! UTC.

[Spijed]

I was reading something about Man Utd under the Glazers and how they thought United had not fully developed their commercial potential. As a result, since they took over the club they have succeeded in increasing commercial income many fold (as well of course paying themselves handsomely).

Have we commercial potential to realise and the people employed to exploit it?

Highly unlikely. Man U. are a global brand. We never will be.

[Clarets4me]

We can analyse these figures until the proverbial cow's come home, but they are excellent..
A certain other local Club operating in the Championship last season posted a loss of £2.8m, despite making a profit on player sales of £17.2m, and not having to pay any promotion bonus's...we are debt free, alas,they owe over £100m...

[ClaretTony]

We can analyse these figures until the proverbial cow's come home, but they are excellent

That sums it up perfectly for me

[Royboyclaret]

"RBC... I thought the difference between the £13.2m and the £11.3m might be fees payable to Clubs from which we'd bought players as part of Transfer fee "add ons "..."

There will be an element within the £1.9m that relates to payment to other clubs as a result of our promotion. The report accompanying the accounts after the previous promotion made that clear along with the fact that the figure also included an amount for 'additional one-off items'.

TallPaul.......Bonuses are seperately itemised within the accounts irrespective of whether they relate to players, staff or directors.

[Saxoman]

Sooner or later, if you want to remain a prem club, you'll have to pay the going rate wages wise. Then we'll see where you're at.

[Saxoman]

Highly unlikely. Man U. are a global brand. We never will be.

The new man utd of Lancashire..

[Colburn_Claret]

Clubs have realised the mistakes made by the likes of yourselves. The top 6/7 apart, they now pay a lot less than 2 years ago. Top players still get top pay, but most squad players won't be on that much more than Burnley. The reason most have a lot larger wage bill than us is the size of their squads.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Sooner or later, if you want to remain a prem club, you'll have to pay the going rate wages wise. Then we'll see where you're at.

What is the going rate wages wise?

[randomclaret2]

You're clutching at straws Saxo...compare and contrast our strong secure financial position with the utter train wreck at your place, and still you have the effrontery to post.

[Tall Paul]

TallPaul.......Bonuses are seperately itemised within the accounts irrespective of whether they relate to players, staff or directors.

But if they are paid to directors they must also be disclosed as directors' remuneration and the accounts state that no directors received any remuneration.

[TVC15]

Sooner or later, if you want to remain a prem club, you'll have to pay the going rate wages wise. Then we'll see where you're at.

Even if we trebled last years wage bill we'd still be making profit.

Even if we had 42 managers in 6 months and had to pay them all off as a result of stupidly giving them 4 year contracts we'd still be in profit.

Even if we let some chicken farmers take over the club and run up debts of £150m plus we'd still be in prof.....oh hang on this last one is stretching it a bit.

Put all 3 together and you have the opening forward on B@stard Rovers year end accounts

[Saxoman]

You're clutching at straws Saxo...compare and contrast our strong secure financial position with the utter train wreck at your place, and still you have the effrontery to post.

You've lost nearly 4m 'well run', spending minimally on transfers and wages..

[randomclaret2]

Keep digging Saxo...

[Clarets4me]

The new man utd of Lancashire..

I suspect your beloved Roverrrrrs may become " The new Stockport County of Lancashire " .....

[TVC15]

Are you really that stupid Saxo ?
We only lost £3.7m because we had to pay out the promotion bonuses.
We made £30m the year before.
If we would not got of promotion we would have made another big profit.
In the end we got promotion (you might need to look up the definition of this word) and still made only a marginal loss.

This year we will make one of the biggest profits in the history of the Premier League....

Which bit of that do you think constitutes a badly run club you absolute tool ?

[Cooperclaret]

What a time to be a Claret. Best gaffer in the game, more or less every player an international, fantastic training ground now ready, smashing transfer records etc etc etc

Saxo and KBRFC can only dream about the above !!!

[Chester Perry]

This year we will make one of the biggest profits in the history of the Premier League....

as a percentage of turnover maybe - but will it be a higher percentage of turnover than last time in the Premier League

[TVC15]

as a percentage of turnover maybe - but will it be a higher percentage of turnover than last time in the Premier League

Pure bottom line / net profit I am talking about.

[Royboyclaret]

A couple of eye watering figures in the notes to the accounts :-

Note 16 Debtors............Including a figure of £8.4m owed to us by other football clubs. I understood that once the tribunal fee had been specified for Danny Ings that the amount had to be paid immediately?

Note 18 Creditors (amounts falling due within one year)..........£30m of which £11m is owed to other football clubs and £14.2m is accrued and is not related to other football clubs. Perhaps the amount we owe Barnfield?

[1914tyrone]

Let us not forget before we start talking huge profits!
Defour. 8m
Hendrick 10m
Brady. 13m

And paying for the new training fac. 12m

And a further rise in wages!
There won't be the tens of millions profit people talking about.

[Claretmatt4]

Let us not forget before we start talking huge profits!
Defour. 8m
Hendrick 10m
Brady. 13m

And paying for the new training fac. 12m

And a further rise in wages!
There won't be the tens of millions profit people talking about.

Let's not forget he ridiculous money sky TV pay us for being in the premier league...

[TVC15]

Let us not forget before we start talking huge profits!
Defour. 8m
Hendrick 10m
Brady. 13m

And paying for the new training fac. 12m

And a further rise in wages!
There won't be the tens of millions profit people talking about.

I think they will because the TV money has gone up by so much more.....plus we get a further £2m for every place we finish above last place.

If we get £30m for Keane then we are talking a profit of between £70m and £90m for sure.

It's pretty incredible really

[Spijed]

Note 16 Debtors............Including a figure of £8.4m owed to us by other football clubs. I understood that once the tribunal fee had been specified for Danny Ings that the amount had to be paid immediately?

Might be paid over the duration of the contract, like a normal transfer would.

[bfcmik]

A couple of eye watering figures in the notes to the accounts :-

Note 16 Debtors............Including a figure of £8.4m owed to us by other football clubs. I understood that once the tribunal fee had been specified for Danny Ings that the amount had to be paid immediately?

Note 18 Creditors (amounts falling due within one year)..........£30m of which £11m is owed to other football clubs and £14.2m is accrued and is not related to other football clubs. Perhaps the amount we owe Barnfield?

Could that not be tax? Our VAT and Income Tax bills must be close to that amount.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Let's not forget he ridiculous money sky TV pay us for being in the premier league...

Yes but as long as folk don't forget that the longer we stay in this division, the more easily we will get shut of that TV brass.

[Clarets4me]

A couple of eye watering figures in the notes to the accounts :-

Note 16 Debtors............Including a figure of £8.4m owed to us by other football clubs. I understood that once the tribunal fee had been specified for Danny Ings that the amount had to be paid immediately?

Note 18 Creditors (amounts falling due within one year)..........£30m of which £11m is owed to other football clubs and £14.2m is accrued and is not related to other football clubs. Perhaps the amount we owe Barnfield?

I may be wrong but I thought that it was common practice for Transfer fees to be staged, or paid in installments, ie: 50% now and 50% in 12 months time, which could account for these figures...

Going back a few years, I was given to understand that Steve Davis was resigned from Luton, because they couldn't afford the final payment of his Transfer fee. Similarly, we picked up Keith Tracy from Preston, because we agreed to pay the £750k up-front, and they were struggling for funds at the time...

[Royboyclaret]

1914tyrone.......We are talking operating profit here, the bottom line of the P/L account.

So you can exclude the expenditure on the new training ground and the fees for the three players.

Only the depreciation for one year for the players will be included in the accounts to Jun'17 (i.e £31m /3 = £10m+).

[Royboyclaret]

So that a projected P/L account to Jun'17 might look like :-

Turnover £125m

Wages £40m

Depreciation £22m

Overheads £11m

Profit £52m

[dsr]

A couple of eye watering figures in the notes to the accounts :-

Note 16 Debtors............Including a figure of £8.4m owed to us by other football clubs. I understood that once the tribunal fee had been specified for Danny Ings that the amount had to be paid immediately?

Note 18 Creditors (amounts falling due within one year)..........£30m of which £11m is owed to other football clubs and £14.2m is accrued and is not related to other football clubs. Perhaps the amount we owe Barnfield?

The accrual will partly be season ticket sales where the cash was received in advance, because even if the money was received in 2015-16 it wouldn't be shown as income in the accounts till 2016-17. The rest won't be Barnfield, because that would be a trade creditor; it almost certainly won't be an accrual for the future cost of training ground work, because that would be a capital commitment, not an accrual. My guess would be that we got a payment in advance from the Premier League TV money.

[Paul Waine]

Could that not be tax? Our VAT and Income Tax bills must be close to that amount.

Hi bfcmik, tax will be identified as tax. * EDIT - see below. Corporation tax will be shown after "profit (or loss) before tax." I've not looked thru a/cs, yet - just reading thru comments. I don't expect to see much CT as we (probably) still have losses from earlier years carried forward that will offset corporation tax. EDIT 2 - Burnley did pay some CT in 2015, following the £30mm profit.

VAT shouldn't effect the a/cs - businesses only collect VAT for gov't, so output VAT not included in turnover figures and input VAT not included in expenses.

Income tax payable on wages is part of the employees obligations - and under PAYE is deducted by employer - this is part of the wages and salaries/staff costs and will not be a separate figure.

If there are VAT and income tax amounts that haven't been remitted to HMRC then these will be included in creditors. As these taxes are payable after the end of month then you should expect payables to HMRC.

EDIT: Just re-read the post you were responding to. Yes, VAT and income tax will be in the creditors figure.

EDIT: I really should have read the a/cs before posting.

No probs: Great set of a/cs. Well done to the directors.

UTC

[Clarets4me]

I think they will because the TV money has gone up by so much more.....plus we get a further £2m for every place we finish above last place.
If we get £30m for Keane then we are talking a profit of between £70m and £90m for sure.
It's pretty incredible really

Assuming we don't get relegated, there's no chance that our Board will allow that sort of profit to be made, they're too clever for that...

Expect further investment in the playing Squad, potentially plans to redevelop parts of Turf Moor, and upgrading the Academy to try for Tier 1 status..

£25-£35m tops...

[Royboyclaret]

Surely if we are awaiting an invoice from Barnfield it will represent accrued expenditure.

Definitely stated as none football club related.

[Tall Paul]

The accrual will partly be season ticket sales where the cash was received in advance, because even if the money was received in 2015-16 it wouldn't be shown as income in the accounts till 2016-17. The rest won't be Barnfield, because that would be a trade creditor; it almost certainly won't be an accrual for the future cost of training ground work, because that would be a capital commitment, not an accrual. My guess would be that we got a payment in advance from the Premier League TV money.

Maybe the promotion bonuses weren't paid until after the year end.

[dsr]

Sooner or later, if you want to remain a prem club, you'll have to pay the going rate wages wise. Then we'll see where you're at.

Last year Blackburn paid wages of £22.3m, Burnley paid wages of £23.0m. Both figures stated before promotion bonuses. Though of course Burnley's promotion bonuses were higher than Blackburn's.

Are you proud that Blackburn last year paid the "going rate" for a top-two squad, saxo? If you'd stumped up the extra £700,000, would you have made it to promotion?

[dsr]

Maybe the promotion bonuses weren't paid until after the year end.

Good point.

[Royboyclaret]

"£25-£35m tops..."

Yet they were happy to report a £30m profit on a £79m Turnover two years ago.

[Chester Perry]

personally don't think it will be much more than last time if even that - there is much to be added to that list of debits Royboy - I expect bonuses alone to be much bigger than last time and there is £4 - 5m to be paid on the Gawthorpe development according to last years accounts. Also think you may have undercooked the wages.

Still should leave us with a kitty for the next round of improvements on and off the pitch

[Sidney1st]

Sooner or later, if you want to remain a prem club, you'll have to pay the going rate wages wise. Then we'll see where you're at.

If we can keep going as we are, other clubs will eventually follow suit.

Smaller clubs simply cannot keep up with the wages of the top clubs and why should they?

[Royboyclaret]

"Maybe the promotion bonuses weren't paid until after the year end."


Aye, that could be the case TallPaul.......allocated in the accounts but not paid until after Jun 30th.

[Paul Waine]

Assuming we don't get relegated, there's no chance that our Board will allow that sort of profit to be made, they're too clever for that...

Expect further investment in the playing Squad, potentially plans to redevelop parts of Turf Moor, and upgrading the Academy to try for Tier 1 status..

£25-£35m tops...

Why should the Board have a problem with "that sort of profit?" If Sky gave us a bonus of £50mm for being the "best town team" in the Premier League - we'd have two choices, pay out more bonuses to the manager and players (except that would be unusual if their contracts don't specify random additional bonuses) or report the profit. It may enable the board to pay themselves a dividend - but that would be after the profit figure (and any tax that was payable).

Next year's investments in building the team and the infrastructure won't impact the current year's p&l - they will only be taken into account when the money is spent and according to "asset" accounting/depreciation rules.

[Royboyclaret]

Chester Perry.......the Gawthorpe redevelopment costs are NOT P/L related.

Wages at £40m still represents a leap from the current accounts £27m and the previous PL season of £29m.

[Clarets4me]

"£25-£35m tops..."

Yet they were happy to report a £30m profit on a £79m Turnover two years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I love us being profitable, but our Board have a track-record of investing back into the Club to secure it's future..
A profit of £75-£90m would incur a considerable Corporation Tax Bill, and I just think our Board would rather spend money upgrading and developing the Club, than putting it into the Government's coffers...

[Royboyclaret]

"Don't get me wrong, I love us being profitable, but our Board have a track-record of investing back into the Club to secure it's future..
A profit of £75-£90m would incur a considerable Corporation Tax Bill, and I just think our Board would rather spend money upgrading and developing the Club, than putting it into the Government's coffers..."


I hear what you're saying, but any serious Turf Moor upgrade would be a capital item. It's ridiculous to think that a £30m profit on sale of Michael Keane might give us a problem !!

[Clarets4me]

If we made a cheeky bid to buy Rover's Brockhall Training complex, under a sale and lease-back arrangement, would that help mitigate the tax bill ? We'd help prop up the Venky's and give us an additional income stream going forward !! Or am I being mischievous ??

[Westyorkclaret]

These accounts just show how well run the club is.

Compare them to teams similar in size to us rather than the 'big boys'. BFC will never be a big player but would you swap these accounts for Bolton, Wigan, Blackpool Middlesbrough etc

I suspect not, and look where the club is compared to them