We're still on course to achieve our primary intention - Don't let the Spurs result cloud that.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:34 am

I think it’s fair to report that the vast majority of Burnley supporters leaving Turf Moor on Saturday evening, did so with far less spring in their boots than they had just two hours previous. A seven week gap from the Chelsea game seemed to create a huge deal of excitement on the eve of the match and it had that first game of the season feel about it. However, once in our seats we were reminded exactly about what this season is all about – survival; nothing more, nothing less (the ‘anything more’ bit will come as a welcome bonus).

What did we expect from Tottenham? I expected them to stretch the play significantly (when you have Trippier, Walker, Rose and Davies at your disposal that stretch will come at some point: it came by the bucket in the second half). I expected supremely good movement and for them to dominate midfield…Dembele, Alli, Son, Erikson are masters of it - they didn't disappoint. More importantly, I expected the two Tottenham centre halves to give Gray and Barnes a torried time – they did, with barely a sniff of goal offered up during the game.

For those thinking that Burnley have a God-given right to collect at least a point at every home game, this perhaps should be used as a reminder that Burnley are not always going to achieve the same insanely high standards that have been set in so many home games this campaign. We lost: we lost to a damn good team, who despite not playing well, had more than enough to sweep a-side a Burnley side only playing at 60 or 70%. It was just a poor day.

What did we learn from the game? I would suggest that the international break hasn’t done us any favours on this occasion. We looked hesitant, from goalkeeper to the forwards. Our central midfield collectively had an off day and that’s something that we can’t afford to let happen again. And it’s in midfield where for me, the problem lies. Since Dean Marney got injured at Arsenal, we’ve not looked quite as solid centrally. I remain convinced that Defour should be starting games and I really hope that comes to fruition tomorrow evening against Stoke City. With that in mind, I’d be hugely tempted to go back to 4-5-1 on Tuesday, a formation that saw us looking very solid in several games earlier in the campaign, yet one which enabled us to create chances-a-plenty too. I’d even revert back to Sam leading that 4-5-1, as he did so very effectively in those aforementioned games.

The missing link…Johann Berg Gudmundsson. We’ve hugely missed JBG since his spell in the side. He affects games, stretches play and creates chances. He excites people: the sooner he is match fit, the better. He is another player who slotted into SD’s 4-5-1 seamlessly and because of that, Robbie Brady perhaps should now be considered is a like-for like replacement. Whilst Boyd and Arfield are 'Dyche players', I really don’t feel that starting both is the answer, especially at home. My personal choice would be to play Boyd, especially if Defour and Brady feature, yet I accept that other would prefer to see Arfield in the starting XI.

I would therefore go (and I fully accept that SD won’t make so many changes):

Heaton

Lowton
Keane
Mee
Ward

Boyd
Hendrick
Defour (slightly advanced)
Barton
Brady

Vokes

Tomorrow evening we have a great opportunity to collect more points. It’ll be a very different game to the Spurs match, but Stoke, like all recent Stoke sides, will be organised and pose a threat in the final third. I don’t share the same concerns that many appear to be airing about relegation. Yes, the gap has diminished, but I still think we’ll reach a minimum of 40 points and 36 will likely be more than enough. And let us remember, survival at this level for the first time in our Premier League history, would mark yet another incredible achievement.

We shouldn’t lose track of just how brilliant our side have been throughout this campaign. We haven’t had many bad days at Turf Moor this season: there are times you just have to hand it to the opposition, admit that Burnley were second best and that we didn’t deserve anything. Tomorrow is another day.

Turn those floodlights on!

UTC

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:37 am

Great positive post.

leedsdave · Post by **leedsdave** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:47 am

That's exactly the line-up I would like to see tomorrow night John, provided that Brady is on the left! Putting him on the right on the last two occasions he's featured has appeared to me to be stupid.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:51 am

An excellent post robbo. I agree with pretty much everything you said.

This season's success will be gauged on whether or not we survive. Without doubt. I think much of the current frustration is down to the current form. Dyche's tactics are inherently "negative", which is fine if we pick up points, but when don't, it is bound to attract criticism. Negative is just a word. Dyche will tell you it is the best tactics to get the most out of the squad in this league. So you could describe the tactics as "efficient".

The current form table puts us 18th. Using this as a basis for the next 8 games would see us finish with 36 points, Hull on 36, WHU on 36, Swansea on 37 and Palace on 49!!

Reality being somewhere between current and past form would suggest we, along with WHU finish on slightly more than 36, Hull and Swansea would fair slightly worse, and Palace could finish on anything between 31 and 50!

So we are still "on course" for a "successful" season.

Roll on Tuesday!

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:14 pm

We still have 5 points on Hull and a massively better goal difference.

The Palace game is pretty crucial..be nice to win that, tho' a point would be handy..that is a must not lose.

Boro'...would take a draw all day long.
Everton - can't see us getting that much over there.

MUFC - who knows how that one goes.

Bournemouth and West Ham...there could be a great deal resting on these matches when they come around..

Optimistic of stopping up, for sure.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:22 pm

What did we learn from the game?

That we need to get our best bloody available players on the pitch in their preferred positions before it's to late. The rest of you're post is basically waffle.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:29 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:The rest of you're post is basically waffle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39459831" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MiltonKeynesClaret93 · Post by **MiltonKeynesClaret93** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:33 pm

In a lot of respects it's good to see we're disappointed to get nothing out of a game against Spurs who, probably played better than any side that have or will come to the Turf all season.
Definitely need to get another win soon though.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:39 pm

Roosterbooster wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39459831

Zero ***** given about my grammar. Was a well behaved lad at school considering a tough upbringing compared to most,but struggled with most subjects. So do you know what I did roosterbooster. I found something I was good at and excelled at it. My family and myself are now very well provided for thanks very much.

I will continue to post on here because to my knowledge you don't need qualifications to join in, You correct me whenever you wish. Thanks in advance

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:40 pm

an OP oozing optimism, which I like

But totally agree SD will not make wholesale changes, hope he makes some changes if only to show some they are not guaranteed starters and fires them up.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:40 pm

love jdrobbo - the Sean Spencer of uptheclarets.com

50 shades of Grey · Post by **50 shades of Grey** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:41 pm

2 more wins, the odd draw here or there = 40 points. Panic over. Bring on Stoke.

Nothing more to add.

UTC NNN.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:47 pm

We may still be on course to achieve our primary aim but we need to
improve our points total especially over the next 5 or 6 games.

We've only picked up 3 points since the beginning of Feb. whilst Hull have picked up 11, Swansea 7
and Palace 12. That's relegation form.
I'm not counting Boro' or Sunderland as they're too far behind at present albeit if Boro' can
get a result at Hull and then against us that may change.

Although away performances have improved as of late we still haven't managed a win
and the way things are going we may not get one. Boro' away on Saturday may be our best bet.
Win there and Boro' are virtually down.

My main concern is Hull who have a few winnable games at home (Boro', Watford and Sunderland)
and could manage a few points away too.
Swansea look to have a few tough games coming up but could still win two or three of those.
Those two are the most likely to pull a few out of the bag and we've got to hope that one of them don't
and we manage a win and a few draws which might just suffice.

It's going to be close and I'm praying we get some more points on the board in our next two games.
3 or 4 points from those two might leave us with just a few more to get.

The positives. Our goal difference is a major factor and has to be worth another point.
And as others have said a win tomorrow night against Stoke will put us firmly in the
driving seat and should give us the confidence to go on and get those remaining points.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:50 pm

MiltonKeynesClaret93 wrote:In a lot of respects it's good to see we're disappointed to get nothing out of a game against Spurs who, probably played better than any side that have or will come to the Turf all season.
Definitely need to get another win soon though.

Whilst it was disappointing to lose in such a meek fashion, I'm not that disappointed in losing to Spurs. They are a very good side. However, I am disappointed that we haven't won in our last 8 matches, one of which was against a non-league side at home.

We really, really need a win tomorrow night.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:51 pm

jurek wrote:My main concern is Hull who have a few winnable games at home (Boro', Watford and Sunderland)
and could manage a few points away too.

Hull's away form is actually worse than ours. Apart from the single point against Man U. all the others came right at the start of the season.

Nothing to suggest they'll do any better than us away from home.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:53 pm

Fail to win tomorrow and we are in deep deep dogshit.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:56 pm

Spijed wrote:Nothing to suggest they'll do any better than us away from home.

their form over the last 7 games leaves us standing

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:57 pm

jurek wrote:We've only picked up 3 points since the beginning of Feb. whilst Hull have picked up 11, Swansea 7
and Palace 12. That's relegation form.

Not quite.

If that form stays the same over the last 8 games, we'll end on the same points as Swansea but with a superior goal difference. You also haven't included West Ham, who have only collected two points in the same period, so we'd finish above them as well.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:09 pm

I think we'll be OK. We're a good side - we've got a couple of England internationals at the back, a highly sought after centre forward in Gray and some real talent in the central midfield area too. I think we need 3 or 4 points maximum and I think we'll get them with something spare. But I can also understand why there are some nerves around.

I agree with much of John's post, but I would caution against what I think is a general mistake - placing too much emphasis on what is currently unavailable to us or not in the side. I think Defour and JBG have become far better players in their absence than they ever have when they've played for us. We did quite well in some home games earlier in the season playing 4-5-1, so I can understand the logic of the suggestion, but I think we've had far more success playing 4-4-2. The basic 4-4-2 template has seen us produce some excellent performances, most recently at Liverpool, and we played that way throughout our outstanding home run through the winter and throughout the same period when we were much improved on the road (both whilst JBG and Defour have been in and out of the team as it happens). Our form has dipped a little because we've not had easy games and we've lost a bit of belief, and also one or two players (Barnes and Barton in particular) have been less effective.

What I would say is that we're a in a little bit of a rut at the moment, and we could probably do with getting our most experienced, big-game players on the pitch tomorrow night. I'd like to see Gray retained because his movement and pace and power give us so many options. But I think if he's up to the task physically (and none of us know) then I'd like to see Defour brought into the side tomorrow night, probably alongside Barton rather than in place of him. It would be a gamble in some respects because actually neither player has great form behind them, but it would give us a lot more leadership and strength of character on the pitch, and probably give us a bit more composure. You can make an argument for which of Hendrick, Brady, Boyd and Arfield should take the two wide roles - I'd go for Brady and Arfield, personally - but the key for me is that extra composure and mental freshness that Defour might be able to bring.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:10 pm

NRC wrote:their form over the last 7 games leaves us standing

Their away form is worse than ours (check the stats), and considering prior to Chelsea we'd won the previous five home games it's not a fair comparison, especially as 5 out of our last 7 were away. It's a very safe bet they'll lose away to Man city.

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:12 pm

We will stay up and all doubters should be locked up in Strangeways.

We were poor against Spuds but only in the second half.

We all need to get behind them-the atmosphere wasn't good vrs Spuds

I would stick with 4-4-2 with Brady in and Vokes.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:14 pm

i wasn't at the spurs game and i wasn't wearing my claret socks.

fear not though, i'll be at the stoke game and i'll be wearing my claret socks.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:08 pm

Jesus, a positive thread.

Careful what you post, jd, some of the fainthearts on here'll have to
go for a lie down.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:35 pm

No team has been relegated from the PL having achieved 11 wins. Two more wins will do us

ecc · Post by **ecc** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:44 pm

Good write-up, John.

We played a class team who outplayed us.

The whole team were poor (excluding Tom). As ever, was it Spurs who made us look poor or us who made Spurs look good? Some of both.

We can't change Saturday but we can change Tuesday. And we need to.

I really felt uncomfortable when so many people, both non-Clarets and Clarets, kept on saying "Burnley are safe". With four away games on the bounce and then Spurs at home it was always going to be tough.

Tuesday is not a "must-win" game. A "must-win" game is the last match of the season when only three points will ensure you achieve your target.

But a win would be damn good. I'll personally take a point with, if possible, a decent performance.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:45 pm

jdrobbo is certainly one of the few posters who can write that many words in a post and not send me to sleep.

I would add something regarding the starting line up... as we're at home, if we did have Defour playing further field - in the hole, if you like, then I'd prefer to have Gray playing upfront.

Cubanclaret · Post by **Cubanclaret** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:59 pm

Like robbo's post and have been thinking along similar lines re: 4-5-1 particularly as it allows Brady and Defour into the team.
It should be remembered however that the 2-0 lead we took against bournemth playing that way was principally due to a goal of the season- a total one-off wonder strike by Hendrick. By half time the opposition had halved the deficit and we were playing on eggshells until Dyche played the master stroke of the season by bringing on both Gray and Barnes and going 442- totally changing the feel of the game.
I just watched a pointless press conference with dyche where none of the reporters had the balls the raise the issue of team selection, the reason Gray was hooked so early on Saturday or why our record signing can't get a game despite the team being on a long winless run and despite any of his colleagues being able to put a decent cross in.
There has to be a point where the stats tell the story of what Dyche calls 'the details' - surely he's seen the same distinct lack of quality in the final third as we all have. I expect for this reason that Brady will replace Arfield in the starting 11. Be amazed if he makes any changes beyond that- in our last game under lights, Barton and Hendrick put in a wonderful combination performance against a similar team.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:06 pm

Fingers crossed for some changes!

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:22 pm

Agree with much of the sentiment on this thread and really hope Dyche makes some changes tomorrow.

Hendrick had a poor game on Saturday for sure but he had played 2 internationals. Personally I think we need his physical presence on the pitch and he will find his good form before his ban - resting him might put him back a couple of weeks.

I would also be starting Defour and Brady.

I would not be adverse to going back to 4-5-1 but not sure how Stoke set up themselves - but we should try and make sure our midfield is not over run like Spurs (who are an excellent team)

Players dropping out for me would be Barnes, and anyone one (or 2) of Barton, Boyd or Arfield.

I'd bring Sam back in tomorrow and if we do go 4-4-2 play him with Gray. I don't care how big and physical Stoke or any other team are I don't think Sam and Barnes works. Neither run the channels or have the pace or anticipation needed.

bodge · Post by **bodge** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:28 pm

Tough team to play against Spurs, really well drilled at pushing up and restricting the space when we had the ball.

Important we turn up tomorrow, we really cannot afford our spine to have a shocking second half like Keane, Hendrick and Barton had.

Stoke haven't scored in their last 4 away games, so SD will not make more than one change i think, if Boyd and Lowton keep Arnautovic quiet we'll get at least a point.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:54 pm

Nothing I've seen of Vokes recently would convince me to play him on his own up top.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:35 pm

I said the same earlier in the season. He did very little in our 4-4-2, but looked a real threat in the 4-5-1.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:05 pm

Certainly Vokes sits quite well in a 4-5-1 and the old adage start strong and then adjust as the match progresses can work. The problem I have with 4-5-1 played without a holding midfielder is that it can become a tad congested particularly when so many of those midfielders are rather alike. Certainly would be thinking of playing Boyd just behind Vokes in a free role, however we know Dyche won't go there.
And although many mock the use of Tarkowski as a holding midfielder we have always looked stronger when he is on the field, except ironically when he played centre -back.

For me it's important we use subs more wisely and more proactively , SD did that briefly and effectively but since retreating into the 4-4-2 format has become almost comotose when it comes to changing the tempo and pattern of a game.

I fear he may have waited too long to make changes, there have been some wonderful opportunities in our recent away matches, and there is more than a hint that our defence is beginning to show signs of fatigue..
A win against Stoke is vital but I fancy it will be the tried and tested methods that will be applied, let's hope they're good enough.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:25 pm

Are sure?

Didn't he go missing in midfield this season?
I remember it being pointed out to you on here.

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:45 pm

Come Saturday tea time everybody will be wondering why they thought we didn't have it in us to stay up or win away, win the next two and we will be Home and Dry and that's exactly what we are going to do.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:20 am

Good OP. I was disappointed following the Spurs game but I always am following a loss. That disappointment often fades away within a few hours. Looking on the game with hindsight, we played okay, particularly first half. However I do believe Dyche made some mistakes (all managers make mistakes sometimes) and I hate seeing when we only get 1 or 2 shots on target (unless we happen to score them - that's just so jammy that it's funny). Spurs are a very good side so we shouldn't be too disheartened. We need the points tonight more than Stoke do. They're not good away from home and they're not in the best form. It doesn't matter how we do it tonight, we need to get some more points on the board. I believe we will. I do think we need to make room for our best players though and that includes Defour. UTC.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:00 am

I'm concerned about two things, Dyche's sheer pig headedness and Hendrick's form.

I like what Cuban said above - Dyche can be as scathing as Mourinho in interviews with a sarcastic retort aplenty, and I suspect some interviewers are scared to death of him. He should have been questioned on the Gray sub and on delaying Defour and Brady too long.

I am worried about what national writers for Ireland are saying about Hendrick, which is that he is carrying too much weight this season, presumably muscle. I think he has his moments but he can look lethargic at times and I would personally play Defour for his usual 55 minutes. Remember the first 10-15 games when all the bad stuff happened after he had been taken off? I would stick to 4-4-2 though.

I see either today or Saturday as a must win, or nerves will start to eat into our performances and anything could happen.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:50 am

On Hendrick, I tend to agree. Up until the Watford game, I thought he was bossing the midfield, breaking up play and carrying the ball ball easily. He was sent off early and then a three game ban followed. He effectively missed four matches and he hasn't returned the same levels of performance since.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:19 am

jdrobbo wrote:On Hendrick, I tend to agree. Up until the Watford game, I thought he was bossing the midfield, breaking up play and carrying the ball ball easily. He was sent off early and then a three game ban followed. He effectively missed four matches and he hasn't returned the same levels of performance since.

Turning point of the season that card.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:54 am

First game back for Burnley after his ban, Hendrick was singled out by the Sky commentators as our man of the match at Liverpool. He's played 2 games since, been OK in a poor performance at Sunderland and below his best - certainly in the second half - against the second best team in the league.

I think Hendrick therefore deserves a break. He looks in good physical shape to me and I'm absolutely convinced that he'll be fitter and in better physical condition under Dyche than he was under the various managers at Derby. I'd say he's out performed Barton in each of the last 3 games.

That said, I was a bit concerned by the way we seemed to lack conviction and belief in the second half on Saturday, and Hendrick was one of those who certainly did tail off. I think its 2 from Barton, Defour and Hendrick for the central midfield role tonight and I can see an argument that this is a time for real big game experience and character, and that therefore having Barton and Defour in there might be to our advantage, even if it does leave us a bit lacking physically.

ashtonlongsider · Post by **ashtonlongsider** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:03 pm

Excellent positive post. Agree with playing Defour and yes certainly playing him in a false No 10 position in a 4-4-1-1 formation could work. However I can't see SD doing any type of experimenting at this juncture. Think he'll go for the tried and tested with the usual suspects taking the wide positions (said tongue in cheek).

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:15 pm

Agree, Ashton Longsider, this isn't the time or place for experimentation.

I think Gray needs someone alongside him who can play with his back to goal a bit, certainly given the way we tend to play. The obvious two are Vokes and Barnes but the other one who might be able to play as more of an advanced midfielder and do it is Arfield. Boyd, Defour and Hendrick are the other options but all 3 are uncomfortable with their back to goal and prefer facing the opposition goal (like Gray).

So if we're playing 1 up front, I think its a targetman, and Gray is on the bench. I think this is a time to go with reliable, tested options rather than gambling on a hunch.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:19 pm

It'll be 442, but hopefully Vokes comes in.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:52 pm

It's a major concern and we look in real trouble especially when you can basically write off every away games we have remaining. Tonight's game is huge, if we lose we'll get relegated imo

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:00 pm

KRBFC wrote:It's a major concern and we look in real trouble especially when you can basically write off every away games we have remaining. Tonight's game is huge, if we lose we'll get relegated imo

I think that depends on how Swansea do in the next couple as they've just taken 1 point from three potential rivals. I have little fear that we'll get at least a point again Boro as well.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:03 pm

Spijed wrote:I think that depends on how Swansea do in the next couple as they've just taken 1 point from three potential rivals. I have little fear that we'll get at least a point again Boro as well.

They took 3 off us a few weeks ago

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:11 pm

Spijed wrote:I think that depends on how Swansea do in the next couple as they've just taken 1 point from three potential rivals. I have little fear that we'll get at least a point again Boro as well.

They absolutely tonked us a few weeks ago, they're a better side than us so you would expect them to finish higher

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:21 pm

And yet they failed to get a point at Hull or beat Boro at home. Can't be that good.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:06 pm

It didn't matter how we did it tonight, but we secured the points and a clean sheet is very welcomed. Stoke were at their brutal best… For anyone thinking that they are no longer a physical side, they absolutely are. It wasn't pretty and at times it felt nervy, butt all things said, that's a huge three points! Hendrick struggled with some of the easier stuff, but when it came to the crunch, his ball carrying for the winning goal was Hendrick at his best, a joy to watch.

Still a bit of work to be done, but my, this feels so much better.

UTC

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:16 pm

Yep, massive 3 points. Another point at Boro would be another massive point.