Term time holiday dad loses court battle...

[Imploding Turtle]

Page 2 of at least 6

[Bin Ont Turf]

It's completely infeasible but in an ideal world it would be taken on a case by case basis.

If a child has a near 100% attendance record then a family holiday in term time (the length of it being in reason) should be allowed. The problem with that though is that the child does get behind in their study and it gives the teachers more work to do.

It all boils down to (and it's not just this subject) that we have become a nation full of selfish, money orientated, greedy people.

[Claretforever]

My child is 6. I suppose I can stop doing homework with my child now, and stop spending time reading, writing and teaching them manners, the right and wrongs, and other life skills. Well, now the government think they know what is best for my child, and that an odd day is crucial in their gaining a GCSE in 10 years time which NOBODY (company) ever discusses once you've got into University or on the employment ladder, then I can tell the teacher who might suggest I spend time discussing nouns and letter formation to aid their class teachings to shove it. After all, family time isn't important as that is their job!

[Rileybobs]

I'm not sure why that's selfish. But I think there are too many factors to consider to have a national blanket policy. Especially one based upon a theory which, as explained above, may well be incorrect.

It's selfish to expect that children should be allowed to take holidays from school at the detriment to the teacher's ability to teach other children. It's also selfish to expect that each child's circumstances should be reviewed individually whenever requested.

[dsr]

Surely you're not saying that taking days off school doesn't affect a child's education for the worse? How can it possibly not? The less education they're receiving, the less educated they are. It's pretty simple really.

As for whether children gain more from taking holidays than a school education, I'd imagine that would vary greatly based on a number of factors.

By that argument, would it improve a child's education if school operated 48 weeks a year instead of 40? Or even 52 weeks?

In Scandinavia, they start school at 7 and (some of them) leave at 14. And yet, I'm sure we have people who go to school from 4 to 18 and are no more educated than them, in spite of twice the time in school.

And another thing - you can have two five year olds, born a day apart, one 31st August (started school last year) and one on 1st September (not started school yet). Is it guaranteed that no matter what the parentage, no matter how many books are in the house, no matter whether the parents read to the child or not, that the older child will be more educated than the younger? A lot of education is in the home. Teachers aren't the only educators in a child's life.

[Sidney1st]

How many companies actually check someone's GCSE's, or equivalent, to see if what's put down is correct?

I've always been honest with mine, but I could've just as easily lied and got away with it.

[dsr]

It's selfish to expect that children should be allowed to take holidays from school at the detriment to the teacher's ability to teach other children. It's also selfish to expect that each child's circumstances should be reviewed individually whenever requested.

If a school is unable to review an individual child at regular intervals, then surely it's not fit to be a school? It's more of a sausage factory.

[Rileybobs]

By that argument, would it improve a child's education if school operated 48 weeks a year instead of 40? Or even 52 weeks?

In Scandinavia, they start school at 7 and (some of them) leave at 14. And yet, I'm sure we have people who go to school from 4 to 18 and are no more educated than them, in spite of twice the time in school.

And another thing - you can have two five year olds, born a day apart, one 31st August (started school last year) and one on 1st September (not started school yet). Is it guaranteed that no matter what the parentage, no matter how many books are in the house, no matter whether the parents read to the child or not, that the older child will be more educated than the younger? A lot of education is in the home. Teachers aren't the only educators in a child's life.

Of course it wouldn't be better for children to go to school for 52 weeks of the year. That is why they're allocated a significant portion of the year for holidays. Unfortunately flights/hotels cost more during those times of the year but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

It's crazy how unreasonable otherwise seemingly reasonable people become when this subject rears its head.

[Rileybobs]

If a school is unable to review an individual child at regular intervals, then surely it's not fit to be a school? It's more of a sausage factory.

Can you imagine the chaos it would cause when little Johnny was given two weeks off to go to Sharm whilst Alfie wasn't allowed a week of to go to Tenerife?

[Roosterbooster]

It's selfish to expect that children should be allowed to take holidays from school at the detriment to the teacher's ability to teach other children. It's also selfish to expect that each child's circumstances should be reviewed individually whenever requested.

I get your argument. But I would say it was more "putting your own child's interests first" than being selfish.

If school's were free to make their own decisions, then the school could always say "no exceptions", no holidays during term time.

But if a school headteacher thought there was capacity within the school to allow this, then where's the harm?

[dsr]

Of course it wouldn't be better for children to go to school for 52 weeks of the year.

Well, that's exactly the point I was making. It just seemed from your post, that if a child who gets one week less time in school automatically has a worse education (simple!) then surely a child who has a week longer automatically has a better education? So what is the ideal that suits all children?

[Rileybobs]

Well, that's exactly the point I was making. It just seemed from your post, that if a child who gets one week less time in school automatically has a worse education (simple!) then surely a child who has a week longer automatically has a better education? So what is the ideal that suits all children?

Pre-determined holiday and term-time.

[Roosterbooster]

Well, that's exactly the point I was making. It just seemed from your post, that if a child who gets one week less time in school automatically has a worse education (simple!) then surely a child who has a week longer automatically has a better education? So what is the ideal that suits all children?

I think the argument is that missing a day means you have to catch up. The lessons are planned so that the full curriculum is covered over a year.

I think there are arguments both ways.

Which is why I don't think it should be one rule fits all

[yorkyclaret]

So what if in a class of 30, 29 of them go on the same 2 week trip to Disney (on special offer that fortnight), should they run a class for the one child from an impoverished background, whose single parent can't afford a trip? What effect would that of on him/her?

[Claretforever]

So what if in a class of 30, 29 of them go on the same 2 week trip to Disney (on special offer that fortnight), should they run a class for the one child from an impoverished background, whose single parent can't afford a trip? What effect would that of on him/her?

It's possible I might win the Euro Millions tomorrow.

[yorkyclaret]

Someone will, hope it's you.

[Walton]

Parents who take their kids away during term time are always the selfish knobs who could definitely afford to go during the holidays but are that big a set of dicks that they insist on being utter pricks about it.

Tossers.

[Bin Ont Turf]

There's always having a holiday in Britain in the holidays.

Plenty of learning to be done with the wonderful countryside and history.

Children need structure and to know that just because their parents think it's alright to go against structure, that the Rolling Stones come in to it...........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OagFIQMs1tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Clarets4me]

My child is 6. I suppose I can stop doing homework with my child now, and stop spending time reading, writing and teaching them manners, the right and wrongs, and other life skills. Well, now the government think they know what is best for my child, and that an odd day is crucial in their gaining a GCSE in 10 years time which NOBODY (company) ever discusses once you've got into University or on the employment ladder, then I can tell the teacher who might suggest I spend time discussing nouns and letter formation to aid their class teachings to shove it. After all, family time isn't important as that is their job!

I look forward to seeing this legal ruling being implemented across the board, paying no regard to race, colour or creed. In the interests of equality. I presume all "cultural visits ", will now be forbidden during term-time.

I look forward to hearing the announcement from the County Council, that they will financially compensate every parent who's child has to sit through a lesson from a " Covering " teacher, and also for each day that they close a school, due to inclement weather, or more likely, their inability to keep the roads clear after 2 inches of snow, or lack of maintainance means the heating breaks down.

Still waiting to hear the announcement from the teaching unions, that they'll take training days during their half-term breaks, & that they've agreed a non-strike deal. They will, I'm sure, agree not to toss off the last week of every term with Film days, Board game days, Non Uniform " Chariddy " days, and other such b*****ks !!

[CombatClaret]

So what if in a class of 30, 29 of them go on the same 2 week trip to Disney (on special offer that fortnight), should they run a class for the one child from an impoverished background, whose single parent can't afford a trip? What effect would that of on him/her?

The classes runs regardless and the child from an impoverished background get's a 1:1 student to teacher ration even the most expensive private education doesn't offer. Win Win!

[IanMcL]

Whilst I have many misgivings about education, the primary need is that we all sign up to let our child be educated in a state 'Free' system, so they have a chance in life. Every day a parent chooses to remove them, sends a message to the child and means they are one day behind.

No argument can change that. The 'parent' signs up and the child gets a chance.

[dsr]

Whilst I have many misgivings about education, the primary need is that we all sign up to let our child be educated in a state 'Free' system, so they have a chance in life. Every day a parent chooses to remove them, sends a message to the child and means they are one day behind.

No argument can change that. The 'parent' signs up and the child gets a chance.

If the message is "family life is more important than school", then it's not all bad, surely? Certainly better than the other way round.

All else being equal, it is obviously best for a child to be in school rather than out of it. But what if all else is not equal? My 3 and a half weeks in Denmark couldn't have been done in holiday time - and with hindsight, I can't for the life of me think who would have been better off if I hadn't gone. Not me, not my brothers and sisters, not my parents, not anyone else in the class - nobody would have benefitted if I'd been in school; I would have missed one of the most memorable experiences of childhood.

Was that a special case? Were my parents right?

[Clarets4me]

Whilst I have many misgivings about education, the primary need is that we all sign up to let our child be educated in a state 'Free' system, so they have a chance in life. Every day a parent chooses to remove them, sends a message to the child and means they are one day behind.

If it's every term or twice a year, I agree...

I'll put a scenario... " Grandpa retires, wants to take wife, his two Children, partners, and his three grandchildren to Disney, Orlando. The three grandchildren, aged 7,8,& 10, miss the last 4 days of the Summer term...they'll visit Sea-World, Epcot, Magic Kingdom, Cape Canavril, and have a flat bottomed boat trip through the Everglades, as well as spending a lot of time learning to swim/swimming & meeting kids their age from different countries..

Back home, they miss the Non Uniform day, and the day where they sit around and play " Operation " and " Buckeroo "....

Criminal Offence... I think not !!

[bfc91]

Some fairly excessive points being made on either side.

The primary school where I work puts a lot of effort into working together with parents/families to help the children get the most from their education – part of this relies on the parents also “doing their bit”. Children’s academic levels almost always drop if they are regularly absent. Sometimes, this can’t be helped, but schools understandably get a bit irritated when children are off school for unauthorised or avoidable reasons.

Generally, schools are relatively fair on the issue - instances such as overseas family weddings and absences on religious grounds (days off for Eid, for example) are almost always accepted. However, in this case, the bloke’s argument of, “Well, my daughter’s attendance has been excellent so it shouldn’t be an issue,” is nonsense (it’s at 92% - attendance levels below 95% would be classed as ‘needs improvement’).

Parents clearly still have the right to go on holiday with their children whenever they want; nobody is disputing the benefits of a memorable family holiday. Having said that, if they choose to do so during term-time mainly to save money, paying a relatively small percentage of what they have saved to the school doesn’t strike me as being, according to this man, “utterly shocking.”

[NRC]

So I speak specifically to the costs. My own 11 year old daughter lives in the UK, I do not. I spend roughly $15,000 per annum visiting her, either to spend time in the UK during half term, or collecting her to take her to the US during the longer holidays. It so happens I'm sitting at an airport writing this on my way to collect her.

I earn, from private funding, not business-based travel, sufficient mileage to be a platinum traveler. I know my way around the costs of paid tickets and air miles tickets. Air miles tickets goes from 30,000 per translatlantic leg for "normal" days to as much as 110,000 for days associated with the combination of US Spring Break, and UK Easter holidays. And I directly suffer the costs, as it would be madness to burn miles in that way.

So I'm not sure about the ruling on taking children out or not, but I can certainly attest to the costs of not doing.....

[Bin Ont Turf]

If it's every term or twice a year, I agree...

I'll put a scenario... " Grandpa retires, wants to take wife, his two Children, partners, and his three grandchildren to Disney, Orlando. The three grandchildren, aged 7,8,& 10, miss the last 4 days of the Summer term...they'll visit Sea-World, Epcot, Magic Kingdom, Cape Canavril, and have a flat bottomed boat trip through the Everglades, as well as spending a lot of time learning to swim/swimming & meeting kids their age from different countries..

Back home, they miss the Non Uniform day, and the day where they sit around and play " Operation " and " Buckeroo "....

Criminal Offence... I think not !!

If the 'Grandpa' has enough money to pay for all that, then he can wait until the official summer holidays.

It's not a god given right that we have to visit these places.

DSR went to Denmark for 3 and half weeks and it was a 'memorable' experience. It wasn't essential but apparently it couldn't wait.

Denmark is still there.

[Claretforever]

Generally, schools are relatively fair on the issue - instances such as overseas family weddings and absences on religious grounds (days off for Eid, for example) are almost always accepted. However, in this case, the bloke’s argument of, “Well, my daughter’s attendance has been excellent so it shouldn’t be an issue,” is nonsense (it’s at 92% - attendance levels below 95% would be classed as ‘needs improvement’)

To be fair, the attendance was above 95% until he took that holiday time. Only then did it drop to 92+%. It's the equivalent of 10 days, or two weeks, off prior to the holiday.

[Sidney1st]

I wonder what happens when families go on world tours?

Does anyone monitor the attendance of home educated kids?

As mentioned what about families who go off to see family abroad under the disguise of cultural holiday?

[dsr]

If the 'Grandpa' has enough money to pay for all that, then he can wait until the official summer holidays.

It's not a god given right that we have to visit these places.

DSR went to Denmark for 3 and half weeks and it was a 'memorable' experience. It wasn't essential but apparently it couldn't wait.

Denmark is still there.

If you were offered someone's country cottage for the summer, would you:
(a) tell them the timing wasn't convenient and to ask them to vacate it on different dates?
(b) tell them the timing wasn't convenient and then pay for a different cottage instead?
(c) accept?

The fact is, BOT, I do not look on my schooling as the highlight of my childhood; I do not regret those 3 weeks out of 560 that I missed; I absolutely believe that my going on that holiday improved the lives, long term, of me, all three of my siblings. (One of whom also missed the same time at school.) You can't convince me that my life would have been one whit improved by missing the holiday; and if it was a beneficial experience for me, I don't see any logic that says it couldn't be beneficial for other people as well.

I'll tell you one lesson I learned. While my mother was at a garden party, an old lady from Copenhagen, who was visiting friends in the north, learned that we were in Denmark and hadn't seen Copenhagen; so she handed my mother the keys to her flat and invited her to take the children down there. She knew Mum had three boys, two teenage and me age 10, who she had never even seen; she didn't even know anyone who could give a character reference. And when we reached Copenhagen, we had the run of a very nice large apartment full of antique furniture and (presumably) valuable and fragile ornaments.

So I learned about people. Did you know there were such kind, generous, trusting people in the world? I didn't. It was a very nice lesson, which I wouldn't have learned at school.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Things happen outside the predetermined holidays. Special occasions. Unforeseen circumstances. Etc.

There should be a grace period of 1 to 2 weeks a year where people can use days to go out of term if neccesary.

As alluded above a kid can learn as much and more particularly life skills and suchlike out of school.

There is so much school didnt teach us and even more school cant teach us thag life and holidays do.

Perhaps a fair medium would be the grace period and anyone who does go during term has certain homework they must complete during the holiday to avoid penalty.

That would show the kid that family life is important, holidays etc too but that education and learning isnt just done in term time and in school.

[Clarets4me]

If the 'Grandpa' has enough money to pay for all that, then he can wait until the official summer holidays.

It's not a god given right that we have to visit these places.

No body is saying it's a god-given right, but if he saved £5,000 by doing it, you'd argue with him that your children needed to to do those last few days at school ? Seriously ?

My neighbour is a teacher at a Muslim majority school in Oldham; Last year, he was unexpectedly at home. I asked him why, and he replied that the local Imam had declared that Ramadan would be celebrated a day early, & had communicated it to the School at 1.45pm, the day before. The Head decided to close the school the next day, at ultra short notice, as he knew 80% of the pupils would not be in.
Do you fine each of the Muslim children's parents, compensate the other children's parents for extra childcare costs, or sack the Head ??

Discuss....

[bfc91]

what about families who go off to see family abroad under the disguise of cultural holiday?

That's a trickier subject to define - I think if there's clear religious/cultural significance to the trip, an exemption would be granted. However, it would be mightily impressive if a family could successfully lobby for a holiday to Disneyland or Tenerife to be filed under "cultural visit".

Admittedly, the last week before the summer holidays doesn't involve as much academic teaching and is often a fairly relaxed wind-down to finish off the year - I've heard parents complain in the past that they couldn't take their children out of school even though they spent the day watching a film and playing rounders. The problem is that allowing exemptions for this reason would set a precedent which would almost certainly cause more debate and frustration than the current system.

[cricketfieldclarets]

No body is saying it's a god-given right, but if he saved £5,000 by doing it, you'd argue with him that your children needed to to do those last few days at school ? Seriously ?

My neighbour is a teacher at a Muslim majority school in Oldham; Last year, he was unexpectedly at home. I asked him why, and he replied that the local Imam had declared that Ramadan would be celebrated a day early, & had communicated it to the School at 1.45pm, the day before. The Head decided to close the school the next day, at ultra short notice, as he knew 80% of the pupils would not be in.
Do you fine each of the Muslim children's parents, compensate the other children's parents for extra childcare costs, or sack the Head ??

Discuss....

Dont ask BOT This. Oh you just have. Can. Of. Worms.

[dsr]

Ramadan's less certain of its dates than Easter. It's known to within a couple of days, but essentially it depends on whether two or three senior imams can see the new moon at dawn on the potential date - so it depends on weather and eyesight as well as the cycle of the moon.

[Bin Ont Turf]

If you were offered someone's country cottage for the summer, would you:
(a) tell them the timing wasn't convenient and to ask them to vacate it on different dates?
(b) tell them the timing wasn't convenient and then pay for a different cottage instead?
(c) accept?

The fact is, BOT, I do not look on my schooling as the highlight of my childhood; I do not regret those 3 weeks out of 560 that I missed; I absolutely believe that my going on that holiday improved the lives, long term, of me, all three of my siblings. (One of whom also missed the same time at school.) You can't convince me that my life would have been one whit improved by missing the holiday; and if it was a beneficial experience for me, I don't see any logic that says it couldn't be beneficial for other people as well.

I'll tell you one lesson I learned. While my mother was at a garden party, an old lady from Copenhagen, who was visiting friends in the north, learned that we were in Denmark and hadn't seen Copenhagen; so she handed my mother the keys to her flat and invited her to take the children down there. She knew Mum had three boys, two teenage and me age 10, who she had never even seen; she didn't even know anyone who could give a character reference. And when we reached Copenhagen, we had the run of a very nice large apartment full of antique furniture and (presumably) valuable and fragile ornaments.

So I learned about people. Did you know there were such kind, generous, trusting people in the world? I didn't. It was a very nice lesson, which I wouldn't have learned at school.

No one looks on schooling as the highlight of their childhood. The highlights of my childhood was going to Scarborough and blowing things up in the quarry;

I didn't need to go across the North Sea to know that there are 'kind, generous and trusting' people in this world.

Just two doors down on Sackville Street in Nelson, is all it took.

[cricketfieldclarets]

If you were offered someone's country cottage for the summer, would you:
(a) tell them the timing wasn't convenient and to ask them to vacate it on different dates?
(b) tell them the timing wasn't convenient and then pay for a different cottage instead?
(c) accept?

The fact is, BOT, I do not look on my schooling as the highlight of my childhood; I do not regret those 3 weeks out of 560 that I missed; I absolutely believe that my going on that holiday improved the lives, long term, of me, all three of my siblings. (One of whom also missed the same time at school.) You can't convince me that my life would have been one whit improved by missing the holiday; and if it was a beneficial experience for me, I don't see any logic that says it couldn't be beneficial for other people as well.

I'll tell you one lesson I learned. While my mother was at a garden party, an old lady from Copenhagen, who was visiting friends in the north, learned that we were in Denmark and hadn't seen Copenhagen; so she handed my mother the keys to her flat and invited her to take the children down there. She knew Mum had three boys, two teenage and me age 10, who she had never even seen; she didn't even know anyone who could give a character reference. And when we reached Copenhagen, we had the run of a very nice large apartment full of antique furniture and (presumably) valuable and fragile ornaments.

So I learned about people. Did you know there were such kind, generous, trusting people in the world? I didn't. It was a very nice lesson, which I wouldn't have learned at school.

Brilliant story.

Whilst I loved school, was academic, made life friends there (believe it or not with many of my teachers too) I learnt equally as much outside of school. Never more so than travelling.

No truer phrase than travel broadens the mind.

Your education is limited without travel and life experiences.

[Sidney1st]

School certainly wasn't the highlight of my childhood.

They say you miss it when you leave, personally I couldn't wait to leave school and the town I grew up in, couldn't stand either place.

[Bin Ont Turf]

No body is saying it's a god-given right, but if he saved £5,000 by doing it, you'd argue with him that your children needed to to do those last few days at school ? Seriously ?

My neighbour is a teacher at a Muslim majority school in Oldham; Last year, he was unexpectedly at home. I asked him why, and he replied that the local Imam had declared that Ramadan would be celebrated a day early, & had communicated it to the School at 1.45pm, the day before. The Head decided to close the school the next day, at ultra short notice, as he knew 80% of the pupils would not be in.
Do you fine each of the Muslim children's parents, compensate the other children's parents for extra childcare costs, or sack the Head ??

Discuss....

I think that in a civilised society in north eastern Europe we shouldn't have a '80% muslim school' as you've put it.

If a local Imam is dictating the way people act at times, then that is a worry.

Christianity 500 plus years ago.

[Sidney1st]

Whilst we still have CoE and Catholic schools we can't really ask them not to have their religious schools.

Same with us having certain dates in the calendar specially for Christian religious things.

Both need to be knocked in the head, but that won't happen.

[If it be your will]

.

[Sidney1st]

A very logical approach to today's world. I've often wondered about those leaving their cars on double yellow lines outside chippys on busy main roads. You definitely find it's worth the risk, then? Roughly, on what percentage of those occasions do you actually get caught, out of interest?

Traffic wardens don't work the time of night most people use the chippy and now it's a civil offence the police don't have to get involved unless the parking is really dickish.

[hampsteadclaret]

37..Steve-Harpers-perm..you say..

'Also most teaching assistants I know are more then capable of teaching a class while the teacher is 'swanning about' (or most probably away doing CPD or meetings)..'

Did you really mean to type this?
I mean really?

In a thread full of tosh, misinformation, bias and shoddy arguments and examples, your effort Steve wins the Gold Medal.

There are so many examples that I could give you, which would demonstrate what a stupid statement that is..I will give you just one - in a decent, academically successful school in the north-west [say, Clitheroe Grammar] do you really think that a classroom assistant, could successfully deliver a decent double lesson in A-level Chemistry, Physics or Maths, for examples?

No - of course not.

If you don't like schools, or teachers..just say so.

No need to type the utter bo**ox that you have.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

37..Steve-Harpers-perm..you say..

'Also most teaching assistants I know are more then capable of teaching a class while the teacher is 'swanning about' (or most probably away doing CPD or meetings)..'

Did you really mean to type this?
I mean really?

In a thread full of tosh, misinformation, bias and shoddy arguments and examples, your effort Steve wins the Gold Medal.

There are so many examples that I could give you, which would demonstrate what a stupid statement that is..I will give you just one - in a decent, academically successful school in the north-west [say, Clitheroe Grammar] do you really think that a classroom assistant, could successfully deliver a decent double lesson in A-level Chemistry, Physics or Maths, for examples?

No - of course not.

If you don't like schools, or teachers..just say so.

No need to type the utter bo**ox that you have.

Hampstead my post probably doesn't read clear. In 'most I know' I meant at the school I work at. My last three teaching assistants are all now fully qualified teachers and used their years as TA's to gain experience learning to teach so I had no qualms about leaving them in charge of a class while I was 'swanning about'. Obviously I am not naieve enough to suggest this is the norm.

[1Simpleton]

Simple answer, let people have holidays when they want and put 2 weeks on the end of the year for those that have missed course work/exams. Yes teachers would have to be flexible but do we not expect that of others who provide a 24 hour service such as police, nurses, doctors etc....

[Sutton-Claret]

Pathetic

I suspect it was meant in jest.

[Hipper]

One of the government's arguments is that the more time pupils have off school, the worse their GCSE results. Every extra day off relates to a measurable reduction in results.

Was there any consideration of the reasons why the days were taken off and their effect?

After all, someone who is regularly sick is perhaps not often at their best. And someone who is allowed by poor parents to be 'sick' may not have a good background of parental support.

Holidays on the other hand are often refreshing and may improve performances despite days missed.

[Roosterbooster]

Was there any consideration of the reasons why the days were taken off and their effect?

After all, someone who is regularly sick is perhaps not often at their best. And someone who is allowed by poor parents to be 'sick' may not have a good background of parental support.

Holidays on the other hand are often refreshing and may improve performances despite days missed.

Very true. I don't know these specifics of the data, all I know is that the studies done cannot determine cause / effect by nature of their methodology. All they can do is show a relationship. Assuming one causes the other, based on the results of these studies, shows a complete lack of understanding of simple statistics. Which is quite embarrassing given it is our Department of Education that has incorrectly assumed this.

[hampsteadclaret]

I have done I would say, about 120+ Parents Evenings in a long teaching career.

Before the P.E. starts, teachers discuss children that they teach, with other teachers who also teach the same children [teachers discuss children in their schools all the time, trust me...even when we go to the pub on a Friday, the main topic of conversation is WORK[!] and the children in the school..we can't help it].

It makes sense that we do this, so that we all know the kids as well as possible - the History or Biology teacher might tell you something about a child that you just did not know, that means that you look at that child in a different light in future...information is power, in any business.

In these discussions the parents will often come up, they get a mention - they are very important in all this after all.

What all teachers want to hear about these parents is that they are ONSIDE with the school and with the staff..ie - they trust us, they get on with us and they support us and the Headmaster downwards to do the best for their kids..if you have 100% support from the parent body [and obviously from the children as well] there is no limit to what those children and that school can achieve...it will only go forward.
- getting widespread parental support is a massive plus/boost for any school.

This 'holidays in term time' issue is contentious, and I can see the arguments on all sides [whilst not agreeing with them all] - I grew up in a large family with plenty of children around and sorting out affordable holidays for all of us when we were younger, was challenging for our parents....I get it.

Some of the comments on this thread are disappointing to be honest.

The bloke at the centre of this, who lost the court case yesterday...he will have been the subject of a few staff room conversations I feel sure..

In conclusion...if too many parents want to do their own thing and please themselves, in terms of how much they support the school and its aims...then that school will not work effectively, that much is certain.

[martin_p]

It's ok to break the rules and then complain about/ignore the punishment is the 'life lesson' that this father seemed to be wanting to teach.

[Mattster]

It's funny reading any thread about an education issue on here, the myopic views always raise a smile.

I love the inconsistencies that always crop up

"Family time on holidays is vitally important" and "How can schools justify trips to ski resorts which have no educational value?!"
So is the family time only viable if carried out abroad? Or is the "valuable life experience" of skiing only viable if experienced with family?

"One day / week won't harm their education" and "Will I be compensated when a TA or supply covers for a day's absence for the class teacher?!"
So a day spent in school with qualified staff, working to the curriculum is damaging to education but a days extra holiday isn't?

"Schools are just exam factories" and "These toy/fun days are wastes of time"


"It was better when schools had different holiday times!" and "When schools have different term times we can't get the dates to line up!"


The key point that a lot of the complainants in this thread seem to miss is that missing one day for your child may not be a big issue to your child, but can impact negatively on the rest of the class. Because, in it's simplest terms, either your child gets extra support to catch up, taking time and resource away from the rest of the class, or the whole class has to continue to work on ground they've already covered. In one instance this may not be a problem but your child is one of 30 in a class and if you can take yours out whenever it suits you then so can other parents and these won't all line up either.

At the end of the day there has to be a line otherwise the rules have absolutely no meaning. Is the line drawn correctly? Maybe not but then the rules need changing, not ignoring when you see fit.