Redevelopment - Next Phase

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:43 pm

I'm sure everyone would agree that the redevelopment at both the Turf and Gawthorpe have simply been fantastic. However I believe it can not stop there.

As the saying goes 'the time to repair a roof is when the sun is shining'

We may never again for a generation have the level of finances we will have this summer. I firmly believe we should put the finances aside this summer so work on a new Cricketfield stand can start in May 2018 or 2019. We also may need to purchase the land currently occupied by the cricket club, probably not cheap. We have to plan for the future.

Your thoughts?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:46 pm

So we can have rubbish plastic seats in a new stand that we won't fill for most games?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:50 pm

I'd start worrying about things like that if we stay up a second season and look like a side that's going to be in this for the long game.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:02 pm

Agree that the club should continue to invest significantly in its infrastructure. I'm not sure what the priorities would be though at Turf Moor and/or Gawthorpe.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:18 pm

Most teams who visit mention the sh*t facilities so we shouldn't deny ourselves this advantage by updating any.

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:54 pm

We absolutely need to continue improving off the field. We have made short to medium term improvements in the Cricketfield only recently, so I would be surprised if it were to be knocked down anytime soon.

I'm sure with modern engineering, we could keep the concrete concourse, and remove the sides and top with a more modern steel structure to bring it into the 21st Century. Maybe not as expensive as a complete demolition and rebuild?

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:32 am

I believe they should look at altering the roofs of the JH and JM stands to make them more weatherproof for all supporters with the benefit of making the noise generated aim down at the pitch rather than up and out as it does now.

An immediate priority MUST be to ensure a proper space for people with disabilities that is dry and has good views of the pitch.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:18 am

TsarBomba wrote:I'm sure with modern engineering, we could keep the concrete concourse, and remove the sides and top with a more modern steel structure to bring it into the 21st Century. Maybe not as expensive as a complete demolition and rebuild?

bfcmik wrote:I believe they should look at altering the roofs of the JH and JM stands to make them more weatherproof for all supporters with the benefit of making the noise generated aim down at the pitch rather than up and out as it does now.

Sorry guys but I just cannot imagine either of these otherwise great ideas are feasible.

Does anyone out there have any architectural knowledge on the matter?

The only stand that I believe could be "augmented" and was built with this possibility in mind in the Bob Lord Stand. Essentially, for all the other three stands we're looking at knocking them down to start again or re-painting them.

Willing to be told otherwise by anyone with more knowledge.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:27 am

Considering Barca are installing a roof and increasing capacity, without distribution to matches, i would have thought work could be done to change the roof of the new stands. Whether it's practical and cost effective, I don't know, but there's not much that can't be done these days.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:59 am

It's probably better to wait and see if safe standing is going to be introduced before anything major is done.

The only pressing matter is a proper disabled section, as this has to be started by the beginning of next season I think, or at least plans/proposals ready.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:02 am

Sidney1st wrote:It's probably better to wait and see if safe standing is going to be introduced before anything major is done.

The only pressing matter is a proper disabled section, as this has to be started by the beginning of next season I think, or at least plans/proposals ready.

Agree with both those points. We're one of a small number of clubs whose stadium is pretty much exactly the right size for the two divisions we spend our time in.

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:02 am

We need to find space for the disabled fans. That's not debatable but it is likely to reduce capacity again.

I agree that for three sides of the ground it would be a knock down and rebuild job which for the moment can't be seen as a priority.

With the Bob Lord, it may have been envisaged at some point in the 70s that it could be extended back if needed with a second tier, I'm sure Paul Fletcher mentioned this in an interview about 5 years ago but I don't know if that's still possible with the improvements that have been made on that side of the ground.

The thing is though, we don't need extra capacity. Some of the big clubs have waiting lists for season tickets and could add and fill another 10,000 seats but even Liverpool have said that increasing capacity with increasing hospitality isn't economically viable.
We don't have that scarcity value that make a season ticket a sought after and precious thing so we might as well stay with what we've got rather than have extra seats that we only sell for a few games a season.

10,000 extra seats would bring in around 3 million pounds in ticket revenues per year if they are sold out so it's really not worth the bother. I'd rather that we invest in our academy and improving our scouting network as the next steps.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:05 am

You only have to look around in the championship at some of the half empty grounds.

Ewood being one, Riverside was another during their 7 years down there.

Elland Road was partially closed the other season for various reasons.

If Newcastle spent 10 years in the championship I think even they'd struggle to fill their ground.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:20 am

dibraidio wrote:The thing is though, we don't need extra capacity.

We DO need extra capacity - but only for corporate business "fans". We are light years behind almost every other Premier League club term of generating corporate match day income.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:25 am

Think we need to replace the scouting network we've lost to go with Barnfield..
Aim for the ability to be a bit more self sufficient, players wise.
There'll be a few Wrovers fans glad they've still a good infrastructure, youth wise, next season.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:40 am

Buxtonclaret wrote:Think we need to replace the scouting network we've lost to go with Barnfield..
Aim for the ability to be a bit more self sufficient, players wise.
There'll be a few Wrovers fans glad they've still a good infrastructure, youth wise, next season.

There are a few who're expecting that to be the next thing that get's axed.

MiltonKeynesClaret93 · Post by **MiltonKeynesClaret93** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:41 am

Major improvements for disabled fans, give the gunky panels at the side of the Jimmy Mac and James Hargreaves stands a clean, re-do the other side of the Bob Lord stand and give the outer fascia a clean up.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:51 am

That might happen, Sid.
Ha. There's an entire generation of the soft pillocks over there who have no idea what a struggle it is in the lower leagues.
Their youth system is about all they've got left.
They go down, which is looking more likely, they'll need most those 'promising' lads to step up pretty quick!

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:59 am

Rowls wrote:We DO need extra capacity - but only for corporate business "fans". We are light years behind almost every other Premier League club term of generating corporate match day income.

Rowls, for years we couldn't sell the space in the Jimmy Mac void. I agree that it's an area where we could expand but we're only going to need it if we stay in this division long term and I can't see it justifying significant infrastructure investment.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:11 am

TsarBomba wrote:We absolutely need to continue improving off the field. We have made short to medium term improvements in the Cricketfield only recently, so I would be surprised if it were to be knocked down anytime soon.

I'm sure with modern engineering, we could keep the concrete concourse, and remove the sides and top with a more modern steel structure to bring it into the 21st Century. Maybe not as expensive as a complete demolition and rebuild?

I think the concrete concourse is probably the worst bit of that stand. They might do better to investigate the idea of keeping the seats and roof but gutting the inside.

As for the others, I'm pretty sure that the steelwork supporting the roof (you can see the heavy work on the outside of the stands) is the integral support of the whole structure. I'd be very surprised if it could be replaced. It's cantilever, which means the roof is balanced (no pillars at the front), which in turn means that there are enormous steel pillars going up the back wall of the stand, which at the top extend forwards for the roof, and the backwards to those big loops of steelwork to balance it out. That's the structure of the stand; everything else is just decoration and filling-in.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:19 am

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:I firmly believe we should put the finances aside this summer so work on a new Cricketfield stand can start in May 2018 or 2019. We also may need to purchase the land currently occupied by the cricket club, probably not cheap. We have to plan for the future.

Your thoughts?

Very much doubt that a new stand would be in the pipeline given the money spent on it in recent years and whether we need to purchase the cricket ground or not, if the cricket club aren't selling then we can't buy. I'd seriously doubt the cricket club would be prepared to move anywhere else which would end their main source of income.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:26 am

I think they should have bought the two-tier end stand from Highbury when it was demolished if possible, to replace the CFS. it was actually designed by a Burnley fan.

I don't think they need to buy land from the Cricket club, just be a bit more architecturally innovative, for example the JH and JM aren't two-tier really, the bottom level doesn't go underneath the top level. They could get rid of the unused exec boxes in the JM and build the bottom level right back or a bit.

A top tier new CFS or BL stadn could overhang the cricket ground or Brunshaw rd respectively, notwithstanding filling in the corners.

Loule stadium on the Algarve actually has a stand built over a neighbouring road, as a method of extension without interfering too much with what they've expanded over.

If the BL was rebuilt it could have a standing enclosure like before but it better not be like the 'disabled' standing of men, as is the case with Dortmund.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:43 am

I don't feel change is needed just yet but the obvious way would be, as post 22, another tier on the BL.
With the width of the path and road it's feasible but I can't see the folk across the road being happy. Although it wouldn't affect their sunlight.
Either, or both, corners of the JH could also be facilitated.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:52 am

Here in Canterbury they've doubled at least the size of the Marlowe Theatre and it backs right on to executive 1M townhouses.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:53 am

That is correct drs the steels are the boning of the stands and piled into structure
It would mean a full demolition of the stand, or build up the back and structure over the existing roof to add another tier but will not happen in a million years
The Bob Lord can not be extended without knocking down the adjacent houses as it would after come out over the Rd, blocking light and the structure would have to be a certain distance away from occupied housing Some grounds have like Everton but building regs where a lot different then and lots of heath & safety issues come into the reckoning now for obvious reasons
The joining of the two stands would not be worth it has this would maximize by about one and half thousand tops
The only development that could be done is to knock the oldest stand down and build in a multi million pound cooperative hosting with new dressing rooms maybe cafe and bars and functioning facilities but we would have to get this right not like the impostures monstrosity that Paul came up with that would really set the tone.
But before all this is even thought about their would have to be planning submitted and the organisation of such a structure would take time to get into place,
We need to establish ourselves in this league first and foremost then see were it take us
We are not there yet in this season challenge but without being to over zealous most likely should be but until we are hundred percent certain then any planning is just provisional UTC

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:17 am

Firstly - there's absolutely no way that either of the two mid-90s stands will be getting demolished or radically any time soon. They're both in decent nick and for all their foibles there's just no business case for spending tens of millions of pounds on that accommodation.

Secondly, given the money spent on it relatively recently, and given that it seems to be the best loved stand at Turf Moor as well as also hosting the least important people in the ground (away fans), I doubt the Cricket Field End will be a candidate for demolition any time soon.

The only works I'd even contemplate at the minute is minor works to the Bob Lord Stand, if it is indeed feasible. Those works might involve taking the roof off, lifting it, and building back over the existing concourse that isn't enclosed to create additional corporate space.

But any works should only be done if either there's a compelling argument that the fabric of the building means something will need serious work anyway in the next few years, or we have a business case which means the investment case would be repaid within 2 seasons in the top flight.

Our security of tenure is not great enough to justify anything else, and never will be.

The one exception would be addressing the current inadequate facilities for disabled fans, by creating a raised area somewhere (presumably in one of the corners - it may well have been a mistake not to incorporate this into the plans for the new shop/office block) from which they can watch the game other than at pitch level, without reducing the existing capacity.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:48 am

Longside4evr wrote:That is correct drs the steels are the boning of the stands and piled into structure
It would mean a full demolition of the stand, or build up the back and structure over the existing roof to add another tier but will not happen in a million years
The Bob Lord can not be extended without knocking down the adjacent houses as it would after come out over the Rd, blocking light and the structure would have to be a certain distance away from occupied housing Some grounds have like Everton but building regs where a lot different then and lots of heath & safety issues come into the reckoning now for obvious reasons
The joining of the two stands would not be worth it has this would maximize by about one and half thousand tops
The only development that could be done is to knock the oldest stand down and build in a multi million pound cooperative hosting with new dressing rooms maybe cafe and bars and functioning facilities but we would have to get this right not like the impostures monstrosity that Paul came up with that would really set the tone.
But before all this is even thought about their would have to be planning submitted and the organisation of such a structure would take time to get into place,
We need to establish ourselves in this league first and foremost then see were it take us
We are not there yet in this season challenge but without being to over zealous most likely should be but until we are hundred percent certain then any planning is just provisional UTC

The current Bob Lord Stand doesn't actually reach the road as it is now, only the offices do that. Why would we need to build out over the road? Would it not be possible to support the structure from the sides and the top, like at Blackburn amongst others, and build up over the current offices, giving either a large steep single tier, or two tier without a corporate bit in the middle, with two sections of concourse; one small one on top of the offices, and the current one?

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:56 am

claretspice wrote:The one exception would be addressing the current inadequate facilities for disabled fans, by creating a raised area somewhere (presumably in one of the corners - it may well have been a mistake not to incorporate this into the plans for the new shop/office block) from which they can watch the game other than at pitch level, without reducing the existing capacity.

The problem with that spice is that the disabled fans have to be accommodated in every stand not just one.

I was thinking about this a couple of months ago and came up with the idea of putting a "platform" across the back of the Jimmy Mac Lower just in front of the void. You'd have to take out two to three rows of seats but you could get a nice platform across the back of the stand behind the stairwells. This could be connected to a "same level" platform for refreshments and disabled toilets between the two "new" stands which could be accessed from ground level by a lift and a ramp. Obviously it would need a ramp at the other side of the stand as well to give it two emergency exits. All of that could be done and create around 150 disabled places of the 160 or so that we're supposed to have. They would have a decent view, access to facilities and exits BUT that wouldn't address the need to accommodate disabled fans in every stand.

There wouldn't be room to do the same in the Longside Lower because of the seating in front of the boxes.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:06 pm

dibraidio wrote:The problem with that spice is that the disabled fans have to be accommodated in every stand not just one.

I was thinking about this a couple of months ago and came up with the idea of putting a "platform" across the back of the Jimmy Mac Lower just in front of the void. You'd have to take out two to three rows of seats but you could get a nice platform across the back of the stand behind the stairwells. This could be connected to a "same level" platform for refreshments and disabled toilets between the two "new" stands which could be accessed from ground level by a lift and a ramp. Obviously it would need a ramp at the other side of the stand as well to give it two emergency exits. All of that could be done and create around 150 disabled places of the 160 or so that we're supposed to have. They would have a decent view, access to facilities and exits BUT that wouldn't address the need to accommodate disabled fans in every stand.

There wouldn't be room to do the same in the Longside Lower because of the seating in front of the boxes.

is that the case Dibraidio? I wasn't aware of that. Are you sure that even if this is a requirement, the raised accommodation has to be provided in every stand? The easiest way to address this would be to have two platforms in the corners between the JH JM stands, and effectively deem that accommodation to be allocated half and half to each stand. This would obviously be supplemented by accommodation at ground level.

This is something which needs addressing and it would be the priority for any redevelopment work at the ground. As I say, I think its a touch regrettable that the work done last year on the office block didn't make allowance of this (even as a secondary phase of work if it wasn't appropriate for the works done to date).

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:13 pm

The area that dibraidio mentions there is corporate seating at £thousands for the season, or well over £100 per game.

Not a cat in hell's chance that the club would use that are for disabled seating

ngsobob · Post by **ngsobob** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:16 pm

I wonder if it's feasible to put a lift on the outside of the James Hargreaves to assist fans with walking/climbing difficulties to at least access the concourse leading to the seats.

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:19 pm

Walton, I was thinking in front of the corporate seating. The platform could go beyond the back of the stairwells, it's just the access that needs to be continuous. Like you say though, it won't happen, it was just the only place in the stands that I could see that something like this would be feasible.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:27 pm

But it's exactly the same as the JHL, which you discounted because of seating in front of the boxes.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:37 pm

I thought the changing rooms were going to be built between the corner of the Longside and Jimmy Mac on some earlier scheme ?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:40 pm

I can't understand why there are no immediate plans to rebuild the other end of the Bob Lord stand as it now looks uneven.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:48 pm

so nice to see these sorts of discussions going on and really highlights where the club is today, will we be getting more catchment area fans if Wigan and Blackburn go down

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:01 pm

Spijed wrote:I can't understand why there are no immediate plans to rebuild the other end of the Bob Lord stand as it now looks uneven.

I'm a bit OCD with that as well. Even if they used that end to create a semi-corporate area, so those paying a bit more for season tickets get their free (built in) pie, pint/coffee and warm Tv area at half time. A bit like a 'Club Class' area?

The back of the Bob Lord stand is a mess now, and definitely needs recladding this summer, or at the very least painting. The two newer stands need jet washing down and possibly painting the metalwork as rust is starting to show. I noticed the same at Boro's ground on Saturday with the rust too, and it happens at all grounds eventually. Needs a bit of TLC.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:05 pm

We should definitely investigate extending the Bob lord back so it finishes where the offices are, with a new roof with no supporting pillars, would add approx 2500 "premium seats".

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:13 pm

Suggestions to demolish the JM and JH are laughable, they're both perfectly fine. Also the suggestion to re-roof the stands to improve the acoustics must be one of the daftest ideas ever. I'm sure the club will show more commercial sense.

bfcwest · Post by **bfcwest** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:44 pm

Of course we need to increase capacity. We need to increase the number of better seats in the ground as demand for them way outstrips supply and some fans won't bother going on if they can't sit in a decent seat or as a group.

In order to do this the Bob Lord needs to be extended and to lose the pillars. A big single tier going back over the offices with a new roof over the top.

I wonder if we could balance the ground up by lowering the pitch and moving it over towards the Longside (huge task I know). This would achieve several things, firstly it would make the view from the first few rows of the Jimmy Mac and Longside lowers much better as at the moment they are too low down so you can't see up the other end. Also it would allow us to get the pitch central to the Jimmy Mac which would also bring more seats into better positions (notice how the ones that rarely sell out are in the bottom corners and essentially not parallel to the pitch).

Moving the pitch like this would also allow us to add seats at the front of the Bob Lord, maybe 5 or 6 rows and ensure the new roof covers them.

Finally, doing all this would really help improve the atmosphere as fans would be closer to the action and the sound would be better retained. We could create quite an intimidating and exciting atmosphere and the ground would have better proportions.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:51 pm

bfcwest wrote:Of course we need to increase capacity. We need to increase the number of better seats in the ground as demand for them way outstrips supply and some fans won't bother going on if they can't sit in a decent seat or as a group.

In order to do this the Bob Lord needs to be extended and to lose the pillars. A big single tier going back over the offices with a new roof over the top.

I wonder if we could balance the ground up by lowering the pitch and moving it over towards the Longside (huge task I know). This would achieve several things, firstly it would make the view from the first few rows of the Jimmy Mac and Longside lowers much better as at the moment they are too low down so you can't see up the other end. Also it would allow us to get the pitch central to the Jimmy Mac which would also bring more seats into better positions (notice how the ones that rarely sell out are in the bottom corners and essentially not parallel to the pitch).

Moving the pitch like this would also allow us to add seats at the front of the Bob Lord, maybe 5 or 6 rows and ensure the new roof covers them.

Finally, doing all this would really help improve the atmosphere as fans would be closer to the action and the sound would be better retained. We could create quite an intimidating and exciting atmosphere and the ground would have better proportions.

In any business, any investment you make has to have a chance of realising a return. There's no way most of this would realise a return any time soon.

We don't sell out the current ground except for the bigger games. The idea of materially increasing the ground capacity is just not realistically.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:06 pm

The priority has to be to drastically improve facilities for disabled supporters. They've had to support their side from pitch level, getting soaked, for far, far, far too long. There really shouldn't be any excuse. The club can't carry on piping up about being 'a community club' and then fail to do this...

Other than that -

Expand the fan zone. Perhaps replace the gazebo with an actual facility. Lots of room around there for it to be even more of a proper social hub before games - and a money spinner.

Just give it all a thorough clean and a lick of paint. Inside and out.

Claretfever · Post by **Claretfever** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:23 pm

HelloHiGoodbye wrote:The priority has to be to drastically improve facilities for disabled supporters. They've had to support their side from pitch level, getting soaked, for far, far, far too long. There really shouldn't be any excuse. The club can't carry on piping up about being 'a community club' and then fail to do this...

Other than that -

Expand the fan zone. Perhaps replace the gazebo with an actual facility. Lots of room around there for it to be even more of a proper social hub before games - and a money spinner.

Just give it all a thorough clean and a lick of paint. Inside and out.

I've thought for some time, why don't they buy the park view and make that the fan zone? Put decent beer in and live football/ clarets player videos, if possible buy the park too for all the kids activities. I don't think it does much bar a match day anyway so it can't cost that much.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:36 pm

Those who say we don't need an increased Capacity are forgetting that any increase could be taken up in full by United, City, Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and possibly the likes of Newcastle. They would all sell 5/6,000 comfortably.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:36 pm

Claretfever wrote:I've thought for some time, why don't they buy the park view and make that the fan zone? Put decent beer in and live football/ clarets player videos, if possible buy the park too for all the kids activities. I don't think it does much bar a match day anyway so it can't cost that much.

I've thought that too. Match day is basically it's sole purpose anyway, as you say. Would look really smart with the same branding as the club shop. It might be a tad too small though when you compare it to the potential space around the back of the Jimmy Mac. (Shift some cars out of the way.)

bfcwest · Post by **bfcwest** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:38 pm

claretspice wrote:In any business, any investment you make has to have a chance of realising a return. There's no way most of this would realise a return any time soon.

We don't sell out the current ground except for the bigger games. The idea of materially increasing the ground capacity is just not realistically.

I think you are missing my point. I am saying we would get higher attendances if we had more "premium" seats. The fact we don't sell all the rubbish seats every week doesn't mean we couldn't have got a higher attendance. There are fans who choose not to attend rather than sit low down behind the goal or behind a pillar or away from their friends!

Also, when we do sell out, how many extra fans would have attended if we had had more seats? Man U at home could be 30k easy. That is the chance to appeal to new fans, new kids, but we currently are not able to. Extra decent capacity would allow us to appeal to an extra 7 or 8 thousand fans maybe 5 times a season, and in the long term some of them will end up sticking with us. That is how clubs grow their fan base.

I appreciate that if we go down then there will be empty seats, but if you set up to fail then you probably will.

Claretfever · Post by **Claretfever** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:47 pm

Possibly but then the club doesn't need to leave it there, every boozer on Yorkshire St lives for match day, buy another? If they did one for away supporters too, they'd be in a good position if the club ever decided they want to try to shift the cricket club again.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:51 pm

bfcwest wrote:I think you are missing my point. I am saying we would get higher attendances if we had more "premium" seats. The fact we don't sell all the rubbish seats every week doesn't mean we couldn't have got a higher attendance. There are fans who choose not to attend rather than sit low down behind the goal or behind a pillar or away from their friends!

Also, when we do sell out, how many extra fans would have attended if we had had more seats? Man U at home could be 30k easy. That is the chance to appeal to new fans, new kids, but we currently are not able to. Extra decent capacity would allow us to appeal to an extra 7 or 8 thousand fans maybe 5 times a season, and in the long term some of them will end up sticking with us. That is how clubs grow their fan base.

I appreciate that if we go down then there will be empty seats, but if you set up to fail then you probably will.

But we've never had a bigger fan base. Having done a quick search: Burnley v Arsenal, 28 September 1963. Score 3-0 to Arsenal. Attendance 20,618

We were only averaging 20,000 or thereabouts when we were constantly in the top flight and regarded as one of the best clubs in the country. It's a pipe dream to think we can grow our fan base in this day and age.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:52 pm

Another benefit of staying in the PL will be that we can freeze or lower match day ticket prices almost indefinitely. Someone who understandably may not be keen to pay £30 to watch Bournemouth would be more willing to pay £20/£25 to watch Utd. As bfcwest says, that combined with a larger capacity and increased away numbers would make gates of 30,000 for the bigger games a reality.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:07 pm

To be fair Spijed , it depends what era you look at. In 1947 we averaged 33,000. In 1987 we averaged 3,300. Both entirely different circumstances , and both scarcely believably when viewed against the other. The media around the Premier League is huge, and could not have been imagined in past times. Who could have imagined 30 years ago that we would be where we are now ? Signing £13 million players...£100million per season TV deals ?