Redevelopment - Next Phase

[Walton]

Those who say we don't need an increased Capacity are forgetting that any increase could be taken up in full by United, City, Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and possibly the likes of Newcastle. They would all sell 5/6,000 comfortably.

Don't forget Lincoln

[martin_p]

To be fair Spijed , it depends what era you look at. In 1947 we averaged 33,000. In 1987 we averaged 3,300. Both entirely different circumstances , and both scarcely believably when viewed against the other. The media around the Premier League is huge, and could not have been imagined in past times. Who could have imagined 30 years ago that we would be where we are now ? Signing £13 million players...£100million per season TV deals ?

Yes but we haven't had an average attendance which is above our current capacity since 1963! Spending millions on increased capacity for a few games a year makes no sense. There's also evidence that attendances drop slightly as top flight novelty wears off. Our average this season is likely to be a bit below that two seasons ago which in turn was lower than that in 2009/10. Our current capacity is fine. Money would be better spent sprucing up what we already have.

[Corky]

i think it is fair to say that ground redevelopment, other than for the disabled, is not a priority. But if and when the club decide to look at it then I think the first thing to do is to build on the Bob Lord bit nearest the town so it is symmetrical with the new club shop. If what they build could be the new changing rooms etc, then when they want to redevelop the CFS it will be that much easier. Ideally the CFS could be a safe standing one. And if so should not require to encroach on the cricket pitch. Then the club can turn their attention to the BLS and either knock it down or tinker with it.

[Claretforever]

But we've never had a bigger fan base. Having done a quick search: Burnley v Arsenal, 28 September 1963. Score 3-0 to Arsenal. Attendance 20,618

We were only averaging 20,000 or thereabouts when we were constantly in the top flight and regarded as one of the best clubs in the country. It's a pipe dream to think we can grow our fan base in this day and age.

I understand your point entirely, but I also think a SLIGHTLY increased capacity, so say 24-25,000 is a good idea.

Back in the 60's crowds swayed dramatically based upon who we were playing, and where we were in the league. Nowadays most clubs have a huge amount more season ticket holders, as that's what the clubs want; guaranteed income. So you don't get the big differences in attendances (yes, I also know "tickets sold" policy keeps them pretty even) these days.

I would envisage if we had say 25,000, we would at least increase our average by approx 1,500. 2,500 extra home seats and 1,000 away seats.

Games against United, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Everton would sell out those 3,500 seats. 3,500 x 8 = 28,000/19 = 1,473.

I'm sure there'd be another game or two which might sell out with something riding on it, which would them mean over 1,800 average extra. When you factor in what football fans spend on average (food and drink) that would give us an extra £1.172m per season. I wonder what kind of payback period the club would need to see? If we can built a new training complex for under £5m (not Inc pitches) then surely we can build a new stand for £10m?

[Claretforever]

I also think better disabled facilities and a major 'tidy up' project on the ground is more of a priority.

[Claretforever]

Yes but we haven't had an average attendance which is above our current capacity since 1963! Spending millions on increased capacity for a few games a year makes no sense. There's also evidence that attendances drop slightly as top flight novelty wears off. Our average this season is likely to be a bit below that two seasons ago which in turn was lower than that in 2009/10. Our current capacity is fine. Money would be better spent sprucing up what we already have.

2 season ago we averaged 19,131, although I suspect that was more to do with un announcing the actual attendance instead of our policy of tickets sold, and I've expressed my reasons on that before.

This season so far, with only 3 games left, including the sold out (21,600?) United game is 20,393. It won't be below 19,131.

I fully agree with the "sprucing up" comment though.

[Dyched]

As much as Id love a higher capacity stadium I just can't see it working tbh. If we continue to build on the pitch as we would all like I feel the novelty factor will soon wear off for alot of our "extra" fans. It's great in hindsight but 5/6 year finishing mid table the attendances will drop.

[Claretforever]

As much as Id love a higher capacity stadium I just can't see it working tbh. If we continue to build on the pitch as we would all like I feel the novelty factor will soon wear off for alot of our "extra" fans. It's great in hindsight but 5/6 year finishing mid table the attendances will drop.

You're not seeing the bigger picture I feel. Hopefully the club have a strategy of exploiting Burnley being the only post 1974 Lancashire club in the Premier League, and massively begin to market and exploit thatinto Yorkshire, and back over to Blackburn, Ribble Valley, Bury etc etc. Blackburn did this to perfection almost in the 1990's, and were busing fans in from the Fylde Coast, Lancaster, Kendal, whilst also decimating Preston's future fan base.

We haven't even scratched the surface yet. I know a Blackburn fan who brought his lad to Turf Moor against Spurs, because his lad wanted to watch Premier League football. He's coming again v West Brom. That's how it starts, and with his lad only being 7-8, he's still manouvreable in his allegiances.

[Spijed]

This season, teams such as Hull, Watford, Stoke, Leicester, Swansea etc. have hardly got people racing to the ticket office, let alone in the away section.

[Quicknick]

Leave the CFS as it is. Best seats in the ground.

[randomclaret2]

Apart from Hull who have particular issues with their owner around membership schemes and pricing amongst other things , the other 4 all have average attendances this season over 95% of their capacity.

[Dyched]

I see your point and Id love that too happen. But all it takes is one crap season and all the great work can be undone. I hope Im wrong mind.

[Claretforever]

This season, teams such as Hull, Watford, Stoke, Leicester, Swansea etc. have hardly got people racing to the ticket office, let alone in the away section.

Well those clubs wouldn't be expected to, although Watford, Leicester and Stoke were Tuesday night games, whilst Swansea was first game of the season during the holiday period, where we often have missing fans. Hull was still early days, and wasn't the biggest draw around that time.

Our home area sales are around 97% of the official home capacity. That's quite high. In fact that's very high, so we are doing well.

[Spijed]

Thing is, we are going to have the same problem next season. If Hull are replaced by Huddersfield, for example, they might fill the away end, but it'll hardly be seen as a stellar fixture by us lot.

[randomclaret2]

It might be that at some point in the not too distant future the CFS has to be replaced due to it being deemed unsafe . The lack of space underneath in the " concourse" and toilets is poor and the size of entrances exits etc. isn't great.

[Claretforever]

Thinking outside the box a little, but what is to stop us building a larger stand at the Cricket Field End, steeper than the current one so only going back the same distance (do we not own so many feet behind the current stand anyway???), but then creating a larger concourse build building out sideways towards the Longside, purely for the concourse space? Could even have a two tiered concourse for a single tiered stand.

[Rowls]

Rowls, for years we couldn't sell the space in the Jimmy Mac void. I agree that it's an area where we could expand but we're only going to need it if we stay in this division long term and I can't see it justifying significant infrastructure investment.

Oh yeah, understood. But if we're in the Premier League we're losing potentially millions in unrealised revenue every season. If the club have spare cash earmarked for developing the Turf it makes sense to put it there.

It will only make money in the Premier Land but it shouldn't cost money if it doesn't get used in the Championship.

[bfcwest]

But we've never had a bigger fan base. Having done a quick search: Burnley v Arsenal, 28 September 1963. Score 3-0 to Arsenal. Attendance 20,618

We were only averaging 20,000 or thereabouts when we were constantly in the top flight and regarded as one of the best clubs in the country. It's a pipe dream to think we can grow our fan base in this day and age.

I find it disappointing to hear so many fans being so negative and almost defeatist in terms our ability to attract new supporters. Average attendances have gone up massively for most other clubs who have had continued top flight status, yet you are saying that Burnley must always stay small!!!

Have a look all the other clubs in the top flight and you'll find that their averages are higher now than they have been for 50 years. Football is more popular than ever and if you can get some success on the pitch combined with an appealing match day atmosphere at sensible prices then your fan base will increase. We are in a massive region and if the product is right we could be getting 30000 easily.

[Claretmatt4]

Priority has to be disabled supporters and I really hope this happens this off season. I don't know any disabled fans but it's not on the ice and experience they have on the turf.

Other than that some basic, cheap and quick changes would be easy to organise and execute:
1.Expanding the fanzone (or even duplicating it to more corners of the ground) would be a start as there is plenty of untapped revenue there. Quite like the idea of buying Park View too.
2.Reducing ticket prices slightly, especially for kids and for premium seats.
3.Perhaps changing the policy on buying tickets so we have fewer single seats left.
4.Extending the BL out so align it with the CFS more. Can put corporate facilities of some kind in there.
5. Give home fans a proper concourse in the CFS as they are missing out on revenue at half time. There is literally 3 members of staff to serve 1500+

All could be done between the end of this season and start of next and wouldnt cost anything. Plus if we go down we aren't going to be harmed by having slightly better facilities for fans.

Disagree about increasing capacity just yet. 25k will probably be enough to accommodate all. The first step might be to replace the roof on the Bob Lord. So we can remove the pillars.

One final thing, how much did we spend on the CFS roof? It only looks like sheet metal. It's akin to getting new tires on your 05 plate vectra then winning the lottery but not buying a new car because you've spent £120 on new tires.

[dibraidio]

I find it disappointing to hear so many fans being so negative and almost defeatist in terms our ability to attract new supporters. Average attendances have gone up massively for most other clubs who have had continued top flight status, yet you are saying that Burnley must always stay small!!!

Have a look all the other clubs in the top flight and you'll find that their averages are higher now than they have been for 50 years. Football is more popular than ever and if you can get some success on the pitch combined with an appealing match day atmosphere at sensible prices then your fan base will increase. We are in a massive region and if the product is right we could be getting 30000 easily.

Do you remember when we have the Chairman's pledge? Bolton and Blackburn were struggling to maintain crowd figures and had reduced their season tickets so that it was cheaper to watch them in the Premier League than it was to watch us in the Championship.
We struggle to fill our ground on a Tuesday night, against Watford there were over 2000 empty seats but we've had Saturday games too with over a thousand empty seats (Swansea, Hull, Palace, Bournemouth).

On the other hand I reckon we could have sold more tickets for Chelsea, Tottenham, Man City, Liverpool and Man Utd but is it worth building anything for 5 games a season? I didn't include Arsenal in that list because we had over 800 empty seats against the gunners.

There is no compelling reason right now to increase capacity. We'd do better to look at our ticketing and sort out the individual seats that don't get sold because no one wants to sit on their own. They reckon that if you let people sit where they like you lose 20% of the capacity of a stand with individual seats that are left empty, things aren't that bad but I'm sure we can improve on that front.