Billy Ingham on Wikepedia

[Pstotto]

Just having a chat in the pub about the legend of Ginger Pele and how it came about and a bloke said he's google him, but when I checked on Wikepedia I was disappointed with the write up, I was expecting more.

As far as I recall we were playing Chelsea and the cross came over and he did a scorpion volley with his left foot over his head and then volleyed it in with his right foot to score the most improbable goal of all time, hence the legend and why Oddies named a biscuit after him.

His goal was the wining goal and we won 1-0.

That's not on Wikepedia.

Is my memory right?

if so, a better write up on Wikepedia is due, but I'm not the person to do it.

I wonder if any of the fans and players involved would like to add a few comments and give the story the myth-making it deserves.

[Diesel]

In the days of one sub. Billy was a proper 'sub'....David Fairclough was another...

Any more?

[Quicknick]

I remember the goal. The win was a fantastic one against a team about to be promoted. A young Ray Wilkins was playing.

[k90bfc]

Billy was so reliable and under rated player,we were lucky to have,He came from Stakeford,near Blyth in Northumberland,My wife came from Blyth,and my Mother in law,went to Billy's wedding ,got his autograph,and posted it down to me in the Midlands,when in Burnley for the games,always had a chat with Billy,in the Miners,Great lad,Great player,great person,always so humble,of how good he was,RIP Billy,always will miss you in the Miners,it aint the same.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

He was a cracking lad and I first saw him play for South East Northumberland boys back in 1967 when he was just 14 years old. He was so small compared to the other lads but he certainly could play and he progressed well before being scouted by Jack Hixon when he was just 15 years old.
I was good friends with his mum and dad and I used to take them to games all over the country, even though he spent a lot of them as a sub!
Lovely family and, as k90bfc has siad, very humble.

[ClaretTony]

I knew Billy really well and his partner Diane was a good family friend. So sad to see the state he got into at the end. I got involved with Sporting Chance trying to get him some help but he just turned his nose up at it all and some months after that he passed around the age of 58. Superb lad though.

[South West Claret.]

Became a bus driver after he stopped playing didn't he.

[Steve1956]

Did Billy go off the rails gambling or something?

[djt2006]

I remember that goal it was around the 86th minute of a very tight contest.

I could hear the cheers from Turf Moor as we walked to my father's car. He always left 5 minutes early to beat the traffic.

Arguably the best goal that I never saw.

[Diesel]

Became a bus driver after he stopped playing didn't he.

Yes, remember him on the buses, the days when you could relate to players, past or present.

Can you imagine Alex ox Chamberlain driving a bus when he retires?

[ClaretTony]

Did Billy go off the rails gambling or something?

It was drink sadly with Billy Ingham

[Jamesy]

I used to be a mate of Billy Whizz in the mid eighties before I moved to the Midlands.The Old Duke up Briercliffe Road was Billy's favourite haunt at the time. It was very handy because the bookies was next door. Had some great trips to the races with him and other good lads. He was a great bloke and very humble. R.I.P. Billy. Gone but never forgotten.

[holdyourfire]

Most players/ex players liked a beer or two.or did little billy like the shorts.Still a shame,as i liked the chap,when playing for the clarets.Always give his all.

[Steve1956]

It was drink sadly with Billy Ingham

How sad...RIP Billy X

[thatdberight]

Just having a chat in the pub about the legend of Ginger Pele and how it came about and a bloke said he's google him, but when I checked on Wikepedia I was disappointed with the write up, I was expecting more.

As far as I recall we were playing Chelsea and the cross came over and he did a scorpion volley with his left foot over his head and then volleyed it in with his right foot to score the most improbable goal of all time, hence the legend and why Oddies named a biscuit after him.

His goal was the wining goal and we won 1-0.

That's not on Wikepedia.

Is my memory right?

if so, a better write up on Wikepedia is due, but I'm not the person to do it.

I wonder if any of the fans and players involved would like to add a few comments and give the story the myth-making it deserves.

I'd say his write-up on wikipedia for a general encyclopedia is about right. Too often the articles are full of fanboy cruft, information about current / very recent events that mean the articles lose historical perspective and random, badly-spelt crap.

[Quicknick]

Great player. RIP Billy.

[Herts Clarets]

Always used to love getting on a bus when Billy was driving it. I can just about remember him playing but a bus driven by an ex Claret was a thrill for me as a youngster. Sadly he succumbed to alcohol way too early.

[beeholeclaret]

I was on the game against Chelsea and lucky enough to be stood on the Beehole End directly behind the goals and had a perfect view of Billy's goal. Ingham's shooting and passing was more neat precise and not generally of the blockbuster style more associated with Lorimer and Francis Lee. I wouldnt have said his "wonder goal" was a thunderbolt. From memory Ingham found the ball at his feet in the "D" at the edge of the penalty area and he was in a central position as he hit the ball. The ball was on the floor and he hit the ball with his right foot with a bit of slice away to the keepers left. It was one of those that was almost seemed to be in slow motion as the ball veered upwards and gradually away from the keeper's outstretched fingers and into the top left corner of his net. Everyone went mental as it was a vital game and to take the points from Chelsea in the last few minutes was amazing. As it was "out of character" for Ingham to hit goals from outside the area the goal earned him iconic status and led to him being nicknamed "Ginger Pele". During his career he kept things simple with neat control and movement and rarely misplaced a pass. He read the game well, was brave and tackled hard and could head the ball well despite his diminutive stature. He could play anywhere on the park and had an eye for a goal when the occasion arose. Billy was a superb little footballer the like of whom we could do with in our midfield today.

[warksclaret]

In the year we were promoted with QPR did he not score the equaliser in the last game of the season where we needed one pint to be champions, This is testing my memory but seem to remember he played right back that game and may have scored an own goal too in that match. It was around 1973

[Pstotto]

My memory of it is completely different, Beehole.

As I remember it, he was on the edge of the six yard box and caught the cross on the volley with his left heel, to flick it on to his right boot and volley or half-volley the ball into the net (a normal level shot not a thunder shot.)

Your description Beehole would not merit the name Ginger Pele, that's why I differ with you on that account.

thatberight I agree with your sentiments about Wikipedia but not the write-up on Billy Ingham, which doesn't mention the facts about how he got the name 'Ginger Pele' and how for example a local biscuit was named after him.

[Pstotto]

warksclaret, I was at Preston, Tony Morley scored for Preston and Colin Waldron equalized with a 35 yard screamer.

[beeholeclaret]

warksclaret, I was at Preston, Tony Morley scored for Preston and Colin Waldron equalized with a 35 yard screamer.

I think it was Alex Bruce who scored for Preston in a breakaway from the half way line. You're right about Waldron's brilliant equaliser. Again I was stood right behind the goals at Deepdale to see both goals in that match.

Regarding the Ingham goal against Chelsea I cant remember exactly how the ball dropped to his feet before his shot. If he performed a neat flick up and half volley that may have been the case but I dont recall it being near the 6 yard box. Further out in my opinion. It is a few years ago now

[Pstotto]

Well we weren't the only two folk on the Turf that day or at Deepdale. I've read that the biggest re-edit argument on Wikipedia (source 2004 book) was what 'Wii' means (over 20,000 edits.)

[SammyBoy]

Billy was a good friend of my great-Uncle and most years they used to come round to my parents for an evening during the Christmas/New Year period. I was only a kid but remember being told by my great-Uncle that Billy had played for Burnley, although at the time I thought they were winding me up (probably thinking footballers had always been multi-millionaire playboys). After my great-Uncle passed away in 2001 I only saw him occasionally when he drove my school bus and it came as a shock to hear about his death back in 2009. I'll never forget how much of a down to earth bloke he was and how good he had always been with me and my brother. RIP Billy, I wish I'd got to see you play, and also the goal in question on this thread!

[Goddy]

Beehole/pstotto....my memory of that goal was that Billy got the ball on the edge of the box, with his back to goal, flicked it over his head and volleyed it in straight over Peter Bonetti's head.

I was on the Bee Hole End, directly behind the goal about half way up so was lucky enough to have a fantastic view. Possibly the best goal I've seen....period.

First time I'd seen Burnley win,too...ended up with appendicitis on the way home - painful. (You can add that on Wikipedia if you want !!!)

Great goal, great guy...sadly missed.

[tally]

I remember a night match away at Swindon in our promotion season in 1973 when he headed in a great goal from a Taffy cross which sealed us the points that night .........................a flash of that ginger head in front of me [we were right behind the goalthat night] and it flew in the net.
T''Was a great night with not that many clarets there and I remember some hostility running back to my car followed by a gang of their supporters out for revenge after loosing.
My one and only visit to Swindon but Billy's goal remains etched in my memory from that night.
A great guy whom I used to walk into the ground with sometimes......a gent and a somewhat shy person but always friendly.

[Pstotto]

My lasting memory was of an old man with watery eyes who sat behind me and his refrain was: 'Oh Billy Ingham, you've done it again.' I still imitate it, on the Turf today.

Goody, my memory of the goal is that he was facing the netty and not like the Frank Worthington goal that sounds similar to your description. It happened in a flash in one movement.

[Goddy]

No - that's exactly how I remember it, pstotto....like that Frank Worthington goal but better!

Probably my mind's eye playing tricks on me but, whatever, we can probably agree, Billy's was a fantastic goal...........

[minnieclaret]

3 different versions already but my recollection viewed from the Longside was that he was further left than Beehole has him but definitely outside the box.
The ginger Pele comes from Pele scoring a goal in the 1958 World Cup Final, where he flicked the ball over a defenders head, spun around him and volleyed it home.
This is what Billy did, caught his volley beautifully and it went up and over the keeper into the far top corner. Never looked like missing from our vantage point.

[Pstotto]

I completely disagree with that, Minnie. As far as I recollect he was running forward between the D and the six yard box when the cross came in just behind him and he caught it with his left heel in a scorpion style a la Giroud and in one movement the ball went over in the air to his right and he volleyed it on the edge of the six yard box, about 3 feet off the ground and off the keeper's hand as the keeper tried in vain to save it.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

I was very young at this point but do remember a game (against who I can't remember) when I was behind the Bee Hole goals. Someone crossed it, and at the back post there's Billy with literally an open goal, but he can't get up high enough because he's only 5ft 6. The ball bounces off his head and loops up back the other way. The crowd groans (there's something about the way he got stick, but it was almost affectionate stick if that makes sense?) but Billy chases it and hooks it in with a sliding movement before anyone else could react.

Ridiculous.

[Bfc]

I was one of the lucky people to know Bill quite well and liked him a lot as a person as well as a footballer. When he often drove his bus on the Pendle run, he would wait at an empty bus stop for passengers, as some people always got the same bus and if they missed it, they would have not got into town. Farmers wives just came to the bus stop, to give him some eggs and old dears used to wait with a cake for him. He used to tell me (a keen birder) of the birds, especially kingfishers he'd seen when he parked his bus by Pendle water for a few minutes, often with passengers on, as he said on that route he soon made his time up. Bill like a lot of footballers in the past came to play for us, married a local girl and never left and integrated into the town. Those days are gone now.

[Hazzyclaret1955]

It was a moment to savour as Ingham took a pass from Noble on the edge of the Chelsea penalty area. He flicked the ball over the head of Steve Wicks and then volleyed it towards the top corner. Bonetti got a hand to it but could do no more than help it into the net.

From the Lancashire Evening Telegraph

I was on the Longside, I thought he had his back to goal when he took the ball initially

[Pstotto]

I wonder what they said in the Burnley Express?

[bfcjg]

I vaguely remember the goal but it was such a long time ago. Nice to read the accurate report though. Will youngsters remember any recent goals forty or so years from now ?

[Quicknick]

[quote="Pstotto"]I completely disagree with that, Minnie. As far as I recollect he was running forward between the D and the six yard box when the cross came in just behind him and he caught it with his left heel in a scorpion style a la Giroud and in one movement the ball went over in the air to his right and he volleyed it on the edge of the six yard box, about 3 feet off the ground and off the keeper's hand as the keeper tried in vain to save it.[/quo

I had a perfect view of the goal from the Longside. He was outside the box and flicked the ball up before volleying it in. Cue pandemonium on the terraces.

[ClaretTony]

In the year we were promoted with QPR did he not score the equaliser in the last game of the season where we needed one pint to be champions, This is testing my memory but seem to remember he played right back that game and may have scored an own goal too in that match. It was around 1973

He did play right back. He was in the side in that position once Mick Docherty had suffered an injury at Huddersfield. I think the goalscorers in the game at Preston have now been correctly identified further up the thread; Alex Bruce for Preston and Colin Waldron for Burnley.

Billy scored four goals that season - Aston Villa (a), Huddersfield (h), Hull (h), Oxford (a).

[beeholeclaret]

I wonder what they said in the Burnley Express?

Quotes taken from the Burnley Express; Peter Higgs later recalled the day and match against Chelsea;

"It looked as though Chelsea would survive and had they done so they would have owed much to Bonetti and Ron Harris. Then Billy Ingham had the final word, and what a word, with his first goal of the season.

It was a moment to savour as Ingham took a pass from Noble on the edge of the Chelsea penalty area. He flicked the ball over the head of Steve Wicks and then volleyed it towards the top corner. Bonetti got a hand to it but could do no more than help it into the net.

Higgs said: "The goal was an important one and will be talked about for a long time to come," and how right he's been proved.

In the dressing room after the game Ingham's team mates dubbed him 'The Ginger Pele' and it was a name that stuck with players and fans alike."

I couldnt remember the flick although like you said earlier a straight forward shot might not have earned him the "Pele" nickname bit. I still think it was more of a half volley hit with slice but I also don't remember Bonetti getting a hand to the ball so after all these years it shows how the memory plays tricks with us all. Some good discussion points here and great memories all the same.

[minnieclaret]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m15yryxTXCs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is Peles goal in the world cup final. billys was better.

[Pstotto]

The plot thickens... According to beeholeclaret the quote is from Peter Higgs in the Burnley Express and yet Hazzyclaret has the exact sentence quoted verbatim, saying it was (Keith McNmee?) In the Lancashire Evening Telegraph.

That doesn't add up.

Also the goal was nothing like the Pele goal, it was all one movement. he was running into the box and he caught it fortuitously with his left ankle on the volley and still moving as the ball flicked over his head in a scorpion kick-style, he half volleyed it into the net at about 3ft height off the keepers hand up into the right of the net.

Maybe we need Skinner and Baddiel to recreate it .

[Hazzyclaret1955]

The plot thickens... According to beeholeclaret the quote is from Peter Higgs in the Burnley Express and yet Hazzyclaret has the exact sentence quoted verbatim, saying it was (Keith McNmee?) In the Lancashire Evening Telegraph.

That doesn't add up.

Also the goal was nothing like the Pele goal, it was all one movement. he was running into the box and he caught it fortuitously with his left ankle on the volley and still moving as the ball flicked over his head in a scorpion kick-style, he half volleyed it into the net at about 3ft height off the keepers hand up into the right of the net.

Maybe we need Skinner and Baddiel to recreate it .

I got it wrong my source was the Burnley Express, he was definitely on the edge of the box when he received the ball.

[Pstotto]

I saw it from the Cricket Field Stand so you probably had a better view. Maybe you should edit the Wikipedia page, Hazzy. I think the goal should be mentioned otherwise there's no story as to why he was nicknamed the Ginger Pele, nor about Oddie's ginger biscuit.

[Healeywoodclaret]

I don't remember the goal in question but I do remember Billy Ingham. Loved watching him play. Strange I live in his native Northumberland now and he made his home in my beloved Lancashire. I read the Wikipedia write up about 12 months ago and was shocked to hear he became a bus driver and died at only 58. So sad. Didn't realise it was drink. Thanks for the memories Billy. You will always have a special place in the hearts of Clarets Fans.RIP.

[Dark Cloud]

I remember he scored an excellent goal against Luton once in the top division in another game we won 1-0.

[Pstotto]

... Yeah, you do it Hazzy and then I'll edit the story to my version of the events.

[gogogadgetlegs]

Whatever Wikipedia says it can be updated by folk who know information - thats what its all about.

Put in the information you know to enlighten the unenlightened.

There are [EDIT] buttons above each section to add information. A wiki editor checks the additions in order to check you havent called Simon Garner a complete ***t

[ClaretTony]

The Ginger Pele goal against Chelsea was 40 years ago this Sunday

[minnieclaret]

The Ginger Pele goal against Chelsea was 40 years ago this Sunday

my eldest turned 41 today and it never bothered me. Your Billy fact has made me feel very old.

[HVClarets279783]

First ever Burnley game my dad took me to as a nascent claret in the south was at Filbert Street in 78 and Ingram scored the first Burnley goal I saw.

[ClaretTony]

It's Ginger Pele Day today - 40 years on