Leyton Orient and Liverpool

[ontario claret]

What do these two clubs have in common? As CT pointed out a few weeks ago, they were both promoted to the old First Division after the 1962 season. one went on to bigger and bigger things, while the other withered away to irrelevance. The difference? Management. One had a progressive manager (Bill Shankly), who was never satisfied with the status quo. The other had a manager (I don't even know who he was), who was just happy with getting there, and never made any changes (and quickly paid the price). Liverpool never was a "big" club, as big clubs go (Anfield's capacity never exceeded 40,000 until recently), but they never stopped moving forward (or, at least, trying to.) If you want to step back a division, that's fine with me. Burnley's my club. End of story. But don't complain if we end up as the next Leyton Orient (again).

[tim_noone]

We wont......

[basil6345789]

Remember them coming up 62/63 - Jimmy Bloomfield rings a bell but maybe still a player then?

[Juan Tanamera]

Makes you wonder how Liverpool managed to fit 44000 or so into a 40000 capacity ground.

[dsr]

What do these two clubs have in common? As CT pointed out a few weeks ago, they were both promoted to the old First Division after the 1962 season. one went on to bigger and bigger things, while the other withered away to irrelevance. The difference? Management. One had a progressive manager (Bill Shankly), who was never satisfied with the status quo. The other had a manager (I don't even know who he was), who was just happy with getting there, and never made any changes (and quickly paid the price). Liverpool never was a "big" club, as big clubs go (Anfield's capacity never exceeded 40,000 until recently), but they never stopped moving forward (or, at least, trying to.) If you want to step back a division, that's fine with me. Burnley's my club. End of story. But don't complain if we end up as the next Leyton Orient (again).

Liverpool in 1962-3 had had 47 seasons in division 1, five league championships, and an average gate of 39,200.
Orient in 1962-3 had never been in division 1, and an average gate of 14,700.

I would argue that Liverpool were, in fact, a bigger club.

[DCWat]

Liverpool had a number of attendances above 60,000 in the fifties. They'd won as many titles as United had.

Aside from the fact that they were promoted together, the comparison pretty much ends there.

[Quicknick]

Stupid thread.

[ontario claret]

Our top attendence was 55,000, back in the days of open terraces. Stated capacities were often a fuzzy thing. Deaths due to overcrowding put an end to that. Our average attendances before the Orient Game were just 2,300. The point is, either you have ambition or you don't. Not saying that it is wrong.

[dsr]

Our top attendence was 55,000, back in the days of open terraces. Stated capacities were often a fuzzy thing. Deaths due to overcrowding put an end to that. Our average attendances before the Orient Game were just 2,300. The point is, either you have ambition or you don't. Not saying that it is wrong.

I think I understand. You're saying that spending like Burnley have done is not ambitious, because all we were hoping to do was solidify our place in the Premier League; we should have spent like Manchester City in the hope of finishing in the top 4?

The problem with a small club with small gates trying to spend like a big club with big gates (and a hugely rich owner) is that the small club would tend to go bust. If Leyton Orient had decided they were just like Liverpool in 1963, which is more likely - that they'd be like Liverpool now, or that they would have gone bust in 1964?

[ontario claret]

The problem isn't gates, because ALL clubs in the EPL get the majority of their funding from the TV deal. It's how Bournemouth, in the smallest stadium, stay up. The problem is small minds who think that IF we go down, we'll automatically be stable. There are no guarantees, other than that there will be a Burnley FC 50 years from now (hopefully).

[ontario claret]

Anybody heard of Emlyn Hughes? Shankly swept in and stole him from an unambitious club (Blackpool), and he became one of the prominent faces at Liverpool for a long, long time. Bill Shankly, football genius.

[ontario claret]

Bristol Manor Farm. One of the least-supported clubs in the Western League, but splashed the cash this year, and won the league in a walk. Lesson to be learned? Check in 5 years from now.

[Silkyskills1]

Attempting to draw comparisons between the two clubs isn't that easy but as is often my wont I've gone back in time to try. Whenever we make a reference to Leyton Orient we invariably mention 1987 at Turf Moor. However, I recall two epic cup ties against them in 1962 on our way to Wembley. In the first game at home we absolutely 'battered' them all night but in the end were grateful for a Gordon Harris equaliser a few minutes from time to earn us a replay. We won the replay 1-0 with a goal from Brian Miller but the roles were reversed that night as we were under the cosh for long periods of the game.
A year later it was Liverpool at the Turf, again in the 4th round and another 1-1 draw with an equaliser from John Connelly. We eventually met up again for the replay and took the lead. Liverpool equalised and the game went to extra time. With just seconds left Adam Blacklaw hit a goal kick straight at Ian St. John and had to pull him down for a penalty,which was put away by the lately deceased Ronnie Moran. The Orient game was a major step forward to Wembley; the Liverpool defeat marked the end of an era. Tenuous link,I know but memorable nonetheless.