New Speeding fines / punishments have been introduced.

[Rileybobs]

Yes, next question.

And you don't think you're putting your child's life at more risk by driving above the legal speed limit?

[Rileybobs]

Nope.

If speed doesn't kill then why would you not drive as fast with children in the car?

[karatekid]

I cannot agree with your comment. The rules of the motorway are simple. Lane one is for driving, lanes 2 and 3 for overtaking. By remaining in either 2 or 3 when not overtaking you are creating a hazard to other road users and potentially reducing the flow of traffic causing slow moving traffic behind you, particularly if travelling slower than 56mph, the speed at which LGV's are limited, which cannot use lane 3. Hence the change in the law where police can prosecute.

But what happens if everyone is driving at 70mph. I assume that lane one would be full whilst lanes 2 and 3 would be empty.
If anyone is driving in lanes 2 or 3 they must either be speeding or lane hogging by this theory.

[dsr]

If speed doesn't kill then why would you not drive as fast with children in the car?

Speed doesn't kill. Hitting something is what kills, and if you do it at high speed it's more likely to kill.

Some people reckon it's possible to make a useful assessment of conditions to judge a safe speed, and some don't. The former drive at over 60 mph, on 60 mph, or under 60 mph, depending on road conditions; or they stick to 60 even when it would be safer to go faster, because they like to obey the law. The latter group drive at 60 on all 60 mph roads, because they have no judgement. They tend not to live very long.

And of course there are those who will trust their own judgement up to 60 mph, but above 60 mph they automatically assume that the Government Knows More Than They Do. Bully for them. I have never had that faith in government.

[ten bellies]

But what happens if everyone is driving at 70mph. I assume that lane one would be full whilst lanes 2 and 3 would be empty.
If anyone is driving in lanes 2 or 3 they must either be speeding or lane hogging by this theory.

It's a hypothetical I haven't come across. And I wasn't advocating sticking rigidly to the speed limit either. I'm thinking more of the idiot who thinks it a good idea to sit in lane 2 when there is nothing to overtake, and rarely glances in the mirrors to see what is going on behind him/her.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Anyone using m6s today cameras and mobile spotters all way down. Even on avg check points.

[Sidney1st]

And you don't think you're putting your child's life at more risk by driving above the legal speed limit?

If speed doesn't kill then why would you not drive as fast with children in the car?

Make your mind up which answer you prefer.

I speed because I've more then enough confidence in my own abilities to drive at higher speeds.
Sometimes I don't notice I've broken the speed limit, other times I intentionally break it.
I don't race against other people that often anymore because I generally cba with it.


As for the comment from someone else that I don't know what I'm on about re cars not suited to being driven at 30mph, said poster is more than welcome to pop round and drive my MK5 Golf GT-TDI and tell me what they think.
30mph in 4th gear and the engine wants to keep going because it's got all of 4th gear ahead of it, so it's always pushing and you pretty much have to keep the throttle pedal right near the top to avoid breaking the speed limit.
The g/box / engine doesn't like sitting at the lower end of 4th gear either.
30mph in 3rd gear and it's at the upper end of the gear so it's revving higher which then produces more of so called bad emissions, plus it strains the engine.

I always got taught to try and keep my revs lower than 1500 rpm where possible and I've always thought it was a good idea.

This applies to lots of cars though, not just my Golf.
30mph is just a poor speed limit to choose, BUT it was chosen when cars were lower powered a long time ago and naturally the government are slow at updating things.

Have they updated the braking distances yet on the Driving tests, because they were also well out of date?
Don't worry though, they're updating the driving test to include driving safely with a Sat Nav.....

[Sidney1st]

Anyone using m6s today cameras and mobile spotters all way down. Even on avg check points.

They'll do it for a couple of weeks until they get bored, predictable really.

[Rileybobs]

Make your mind up which answer you prefer.

I speed because I've more then enough confidence in my own abilities to drive at higher speeds.
Sometimes I don't notice I've broken the speed limit, other times I intentionally break it.
I don't race against other people that often anymore because I generally cba with it.

I don't prefer either answer, I was posing a question at two different viewpoints. You said that you drive just as fast, and above the legal speed limit, with your children in the car. I asked whether you didn't feel you were increasing the risk of your children being harmed in an accident, which whether you have faith in your driving abilites or not, you clearly are.

CFS said that he drives slower when he has children in the car. So I questioned, if he believes that driving fast doesn't increase the risk of a collision, why he drives slower with children in the car.

[Sidney1st]

Why am I increasing the risk?

I understand all the tests that are done in Thatcham, I've seen all the adverts, but equally I'm aware of my own capabilities compared to others.

I'm also aware there are varying levels of driving abilities, from slow & nervous drivers right up to arrogant speeding excessively drivers.

My kids can be in as much danger from my driving as they are from someone else's and personally I think the sooner they release automated/self driving cars the better.

[Rileybobs]

Why am I increasing the risk?

I understand all the tests that are done in Thatcham, I've seen all the adverts, but equally I'm aware of my own capabilities compared to others.

I'm also aware there are varying levels of driving abilities, from slow & nervous drivers right up to arrogant speeding excessively drivers.

My kids can be in as much danger from my driving as they are from someone else's and personally I think the sooner they release automated/self driving cars the better.

Because if you drive faster it takes you longer to stop. I can't believe people are actually arguing that driving faster doesn't increase the risk of an accident - it's pure ignorance. If you are driving faster and someone pulls out in front of you, or a kid runs into the road there's an increased risk of a collision. Even on 'safe' roads you can't predict what's going to happen. A deer ran out into the road in front of the car in front of me in Rawtenstall on the way to the Stoke game. I reckon if the car in front was doing 40mph rather than 30mph he would have hit it.

Obviously it's not the only factor, and people toddling along in the middle lane at 60mph are also dangerous. The speed limits aren't perfect and we can argue about the purpose of speed traps but it's quite simple and reasonable to stick to the speed limit. I used to drive over the speed limit often but after wasting a Saturday morning at a speed awareness course I decided it really wasn't worth it. I stick the speed-limited on when I'm driving on the motorway now - right laugh I am.

[UpTheBeehole]

30mph is just a poor speed limit to choose, BUT it was chosen when cars were lower powered a long time ago and naturally the government are slow at updating things.

It's not just the UK Government which has a town driving limit of 30, most developed nations in the world have a speed of 30mph/50kmph.

It's a bit silly that major car manufacturers make cars which are uncomfortable at driving at this widely accepted speed limit.

[Sidney1st]

Yes it does take longer to stop, but it also comes down to driver ability and how well maintained your car is.

I've every confidence in myself to drive at any speed, whether it's 20mph or 140mph, it actually makes no difference to me.

With my kids in the car I still speed, but not excessively, but you're waving your arms around at all levels of speeding so naturally you won't be impressed with that.

My issue is the number of drivers who're crap at low speeds, nevermind the actual speed limit or above.
They seem to be terrified of being on the road all the sodding time.
People also seemingly can't use a Sat Nav unless it's planted in the middle of their effing windscreen, directly in their line of sight.

Daily I see people who feel the need to take a corner wide, mount pavements/kerbs etc, stop at roundabouts when they've got right of way and numerous other poor driving skills.

I see mobile phone users, people smoking, dogs and children who aren't strapped in, poorly maintained cars with illegal tyres etc and not much is done about any of those drivers.

Do I place my kids at higher risk driving above the speed limit?
Yeah probably, but there's also an equal risk from other shockingly poor drivers who in all seriousness shouldn't be on the road.

[ablueclaret]

The art of driving is to be aware of the huge differences between users of the road both in terms of vehicles, abilities, age and reactions, the sad thing is that those who often think themselves the best drivers and therefore above the law are amongst the least sensitive drivers of all. They tend to see the road as their own fiefdom and other users as annoying objects, it's little surprising that they are often the most undemocratic and bigoted individuals you would ever meet.
When I taught my kids the advice I always give them was be aware of other drivers, just think how many contrasting emotions are on the road, and be aware that at anytime somebody or some thing can do something unexpected. Defensive aware driving, remembering you haven't an idea what is around that corner.

[Sidney1st]

It's not just the UK Government which has a town driving limit of 30, most developed nations in the world have a speed of 30mph/50kmph.

It's a bit silly that major car manufacturers make cars which are uncomfortable at driving at this widely accepted speed limit.

It's a bit silly that car manufacturers make cars that can drive over 70mph by that logic, but they still do.

It's down to gear ratio's and they're wrong for 30mph on a lot of cars.

[Sidney1st]

The art of driving is to be aware of the huge differences between users of the road both in terms of vehicles, abilities, age and reactions, the sad thing is that those who often think themselves the best drivers and therefore above the law are amongst the least sensitive drivers of all. They tend to see the road as their own fiefdom and other users as annoying objects, it's little surprising that they are often the most undemocratic and bigoted individuals you would ever meet.
When I taught my kids the advice I always give them was be aware of other drivers, just think how many contrasting emotions are on the road, and be aware that at anytime somebody or some thing can do something unexpected. Defensive aware driving, remembering you haven't an idea what is around that corner.

That's why I've slowed down a bit, too many poor drivers on the road

[ablueclaret]

Sadly when people like Sidney become involved in an incident they then contest the fact they were speeding, making a mobile call etc, people like Flintoff who then try to worm their way out of admitting the truth, people I have to admit I have nothing but contempt for.

[ablueclaret]

Difficult living with killing someone Sidney, and as your reactions slow you're arrogance will remain.

[starting_11]

I love following someone on a 60 road who is unable to find anything above 40 but then when entering a village suddenly has the skills and reaction of Seb Vettel and can do 45 all the way thru it, before slowing down again when we re-hit the national limit.

[Sidney1st]

Which incident?

I said the 2nd accident was mainly my fault, I'm not worming my way out of anything but thanks for claiming I was.
If the driver in front had decided to carry on accelerating instead of stopping for an empty roundabout then I would've been fine, but I admit to being too close to her to be able to stop.

Point out where I've contested anything.

As for mobile phone use, I don't use it anymore whilst I'm driving, just like I don't eat anymore whilst driving unless it's a long journey.
Smokers can carry on though bizarrely.

[Sidney1st]

Difficult living with killing someone Sidney, and as your reactions slow you're arrogance will remain.

If I kill someone I'll let you know, but as yet I haven't and the older I've got my driving style has changed.

Pontificate all you like, but it's how I drive, it's how I've always driven and unlike others, who haven't commented, I'm not going to hide the fact I can drive like a bit of a dick at times.

I'm also one of the few who's advocating self driving cars as the way forward.

[Walton]

I love following someone on a 60 road who is unable to find anything above 40 but then when entering a village suddenly has the skills and reaction of Seb Vettel and can do 45 all the way thru it, before slowing down again when we re-hit the national limit.

Sounds like you drive from Tod through Cliviger quite a lot by that description!

[cricketfieldclarets]

If speed doesn't kill then why would you not drive as fast with children in the car?

Cause i dont have any

[cricketfieldclarets]

I don't prefer either answer, I was posing a question at two different viewpoints. You said that you drive just as fast, and above the legal speed limit, with your children in the car. I asked whether you didn't feel you were increasing the risk of your children being harmed in an accident, which whether you have faith in your driving abilites or not, you clearly are.

CFS said that he drives slower when he has children in the car. So I questioned, if he believes that driving fast doesn't increase the risk of a collision, why he drives slower with children in the car.

I didnt. You asked if i drive faster with my kids in the car. I dont have no kids.

[dsr]

As for the comment from someone else that I don't know what I'm on about re cars not suited to being driven at 30mph, said poster is more than welcome to pop round and drive my MK5 Golf GT-TDI and tell me what they think.
30mph in 4th gear and the engine wants to keep going because it's got all of 4th gear ahead of it, so it's always pushing and you pretty much have to keep the throttle pedal right near the top to avoid breaking the speed limit.
The g/box / engine doesn't like sitting at the lower end of 4th gear either.
30mph in 3rd gear and it's at the upper end of the gear so it's revving higher which then produces more of so called bad emissions, plus it strains the engine.

Then it's a poor quality car. Mine can be comfortable at any speed, eg. at 30 it could drive easily in 3rd or 4th because there's an overlap. I always use 3rd because it's so easy to speed up in 4th. And in towns, 30 mph zones, pedestrians around, children present - inside or outside the car - speeding is an absolute no-no. 80 on motorways doesn't bother me. 90 probably wouldn't either, but it would bother the car!

Anyone who deliberately drives at over 30 mph in towns deserves everything they get IMO. It's the fact that the police go after the accidental speeders and occasional speeders while not generally bothering with the deliberate speeders who do it all the time; and they fuss more about speeds on good wide roads and not on narrow dangerous ones. That's what bugs me.

[starting_11]

Sounds like you drive from Tod through Cliviger quite a lot by that description!

Doesn't matter where you drive, that's the way everywhere these days.

I was driving in Bradford the other day... lets just say I now know why "taxi drivers" drive the way they do. Animals!

[Sidney1st]

Then it's a poor quality car. Mine can be comfortable at any speed, eg. at 30 it could drive easily in 3rd or 4th because there's an overlap. I always use 3rd because it's so easy to speed up in 4th. And in towns, 30 mph zones, pedestrians around, children present - inside or outside the car - speeding is an absolute no-no. 80 on motorways doesn't bother me. 90 probably wouldn't either, but it would bother the car!

3rd - my revs are higher, 4th my revs are low but it means I can't use the accelerator pedal much because it just wants to pull away instantly.

This applies to lots of cars I've driven over the years, not just my current Golf, whether it's top end cars or low end cars.

[UpTheBeehole]

Stay in 3rd then. Road safety is more important than your rev counter.

[Rileybobs]

Yes it does take longer to stop, but it also comes down to driver ability and how well maintained your car is.

Obviously, there are other factors like I mentioned, but driving faster increases the risk of a collision regardless of driver ability and how well maintained the car is.

I've every confidence in myself to drive at any speed, whether it's 20mph or 140mph, it actually makes no difference to me.

You sound like a confident driver. But you're not safer at 140mph than you are at 20mph, it's arrogant and ignorant to suggest otherwise. Think about what you're actually claiming.

With my kids in the car I still speed, but not excessively, but you're waving your arms around at all levels of speeding so naturally you won't be impressed with that.

I'm not waving my arms around at anything, I'm just picking apart people's arguments that driving faster than the legal limit doesn't increase the chances of an accident - which it absolutely obviously does. And if you are involved in a collision at a higher speed, whether due to your poor driving or others, you're child is more likely to be seriously injured/killed. That is a fact.

quote="Sidney1st"]My issue is the number of drivers who're crap at low speeds, nevermind the actual speed limit or above.
They seem to be terrified of being on the road all the sodding time.
People also seemingly can't use a Sat Nav unless it's planted in the middle of their effing windscreen, directly in their line of sight.

Daily I see people who feel the need to take a corner wide, mount pavements/kerbs etc, stop at roundabouts when they've got right of way and numerous other poor driving skills.

I see mobile phone users, people smoking, dogs and children who aren't strapped in, poorly maintained cars with illegal tyres etc and not much is done about any of those drivers.

Do I place my kids at higher risk driving above the speed limit?
Yeah probably, but there's also an equal risk from other shockingly poor drivers who in all seriousness shouldn't be on the road.[/quote]

What a daft argument. Can you do something about the shockingly poor drivers on the road? Just because other people are unsafe on the road doesn't mean that you're excessive speeds don't increase the chance of an accident.

[Sidney1st]

Can I do anything about poor, slow, drivers?
Nope, I just back away from them and let them trundle along.

I know my excessive speeds increase the chance of an accident, BUT I also pointed out driving very slowly also increases the chances of an accident.

No one drives the same as anyone else and excessive speeding or excessively slow driving have a pretty even chance of causing accidents.

You don't like speeding drivers, I get it, but it isn't going to change how many people drive at the end of the day.
Only self driving cars will do that and I actually look forward to the day they arrive for various different reasons.

I didn't say I was safer at 140mph either, I just happen to know it doesn't bother me when I've gone at that speed, whereas some people get palpatations at anything over 70mph.

[dsr]

Equally, you put your child at risk by driving at 30 in a 30 zone when you could be driving at 20. You put your children at risk every time you let them leave the house. By all means use the speed limit as a sensible guideline to how fast to drive, and certainly within towns it would be foolish to speed because of the risks that someone else will do something out of your control. But if you can reduce risk to your children by driving at 70 rather than 75 (and you can), then you can reduce it by the same amount by driving at 65 rather than 70. The speed limit isn't a magic number that changes everything.

[bob-the-scutter]

Just don't get caught... all be reet!

Have you? Btw

Really?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... anned.html
You`d be surprised as to how many drivers are wrongly convicted of speeding when they weren`t.
Anyone who thinks they truly weren`t over the limit should challenge it.

[starting_11]

10 years ago...

And you're saying I'm wrong that if you don't speed you won't get caught speeding? and because of something you read in the Daily Mail

Don't... it's too early for this

[Sidney1st]

I was definitely over the limit, I'm just glad I managed to slow it down to the speed I got caught at.

[bob-the-scutter]

10 years ago...

And you're saying I'm wrong that if you don't speed you won't get caught speeding? and because of something you read in the Daily Mail

Don't... it's too early for this

Well......yes. it happens all the time. What does it matter if it was 10 years ago?
After 10 years they`re still using the same piece of junk which has been proven (On TV by Trev McDonald no less) not to work very well and has been removed from service in a lot of countries including the USA.
Just because it`s type-approved by the government doesn`t mean it`s reliable it just means it`s a valuable cash-generator!

[starting_11]

Ooook... on a seperate note, don't lose your tinfoil hat today!

[UpTheBeehole]

What do people reckon about drink driving?

Say you're driving at 36 in a 30. Feels safe. 20% over the speed limit. Bit awkward because your car doesn't really drive well in 3rd or 4th at the speed limit, so you have it in low revs in 4th.

Return 42 on a breath test where the limit is 35mg. 20% over the limit.

Kid runs out. Now what.

[FactualFrank]

One thing that always puzzles me - when they have a 60 limit on country roads, where doing anywhere near 60 is flat out dangerous. Blind corners, narrow roads, possibility of cattle in the road, etc. Yet you still get people who think they're on the Monaco grand prix circuit.

Sure, there are sometimes straights when you can see the road ahead of you (often followed by plenty of up-down dips), but most country roads I drive down, 30-40 is a sensible speed, even less if it's been ******* it down. They certainly have the speed limits wrong in many of those places imo.

[Sidney1st]

One thing that always puzzles me - when they have a 60 limit on country roads, where doing anywhere near 60 is flat out dangerous. Blind corners, narrow roads, possibility of cattle in the road, etc. Yet you still get people who think they're on the Monaco grand prix circuit.

That's usually when I do my best Schumacher impression

[Sidney1st]

What do people reckon about drink driving?

Say you're driving at 36 in a 30. Feels safe. 20% over the speed limit. Bit awkward because your car doesn't really drive well in 3rd or 4th at the speed limit, so you have it in low revs in 4th.

Return 42 on a breath test where the limit is 35mg. 20% over the limit.

Kid runs out. Now what.

You're drunk, the speeding is regardless because your reactions are slower so you can hit them at 30mph just as easily as 36mph.
Drink negates any other factors.

[UpTheBeehole]

It's only 20% though. The limits are based on out of date information.

I'm a better drinker than most people, so I can react better than most people. That's why it's safe for me to drive at 20% over the limit.

or

It's only 20% though. The limits are based on out of date information.

I'm a better driver than most people, so I can react better than most people. That's why it's safe for me to drive at 20% over the limit.

[UpTheBeehole]

I didn't mean to hit the kid officer.

[aggi]

This is one of my favourite scientific studies https://www.psychologicalscience.org/ne ... erage.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bob-the-scutter]

I've never relied on someone else taking avoiding measures when I break the speed limit.

Who's the more dangerous, someone who sits in the middle lane at 50-60mph or someone who's driving at 80mph in the correct lane?

These are the dangerous drivers who never have accidents because it`s they who usually cause them.
Those and the tail-gaters!