Keep Clear road markings are clearly optional in Burnley

[ClaretAndJew]

Not that I'm a bitter old ******* or anything, but why, when stopping at lights or junctions or whatever, and I leave a gap for the "Keep Clear" road markings do people look at me, beep their horn or subsequently go into the Keep Clear portion of the road after I've moved forward?

I thought driving was a relatively easy thing to understand, and that the road markings didn't need clarification, but a lot of people seem to need to brush up on their driving skills.

[Rick_Muller]

dont think it's just Burnley - I experience much the same where ever I am driving

[ClaretTony]

The roundabouts at M65 Junction 10 are always good fun for people not having a clue as is the roundabout at the top of Centenary Way where hold ups are invariably always caused by cars ignoring markings and blocking the roundabout.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Biggest issue I see which seems increasingly problematic n Burnley is people don't know that you give way to your right on a junction or roundabout.

The roundabout near the Viaduct at Central Station is the biggest culprit. Then on the junction by the Turf I nearly got wiped out by two dickheads (not one car, two) racing each other and turning right onto Brunshaw Road / Harry Potts Way. They were going at least 80mph, how I managed to avoid them I will never know. Emergency stop / skid automatically kicked in without thinking. In reference to the speeding thread, that is where I was making the point that its not the speed that kills it is the dickheads driving. Granted at 20mph I would have just had damage to the car and at 80mph I would be lucky to be alive.

At roundabouts people seem to need traffic lights now. And at traffic lights these two dickheads clearly thought because theirs was on green it was their right of way.

[Sidney1st]

Wasn't me racing, I haven't been to Burnley for a while.

[The Enclosure]

Agree with all the above.....one situation that does puzzle me regarding the give way to cars on your right at a roundabout is this...
On a mini roundabout when there is a car waiting at each entrance to the roundabout who goes first? It could be a Mexican stand off lol.

[cricketfieldclarets]

The roundabouts at M65 Junction 10 are always good fun for people not having a clue as is the roundabout at the top of Centenary Way where hold ups are invariably always caused by cars ignoring markings and blocking the roundabout.

Agree. Absolute nghtmare there.

[alicante claret]

When working I drove in most towns and cities of England and Wales. Swindon has without doubt the worst roundabout, The Magic Roundabout close to the football ground. Too difficult to even try and explain! Seven roundabouts in one. Chaos! Driving in Spain is similar at roundabouts and blocking exits, just at sound if car horns!!

[Rick_Muller]

When working I drove in most towns and cities of England and Wales. Swindon has without doubt the worst roundabout, The Magic Roundabout close to the football ground. Too difficult to even try and explain! Seven roundabouts in one. Chaos! Driving in Spain is similar at roundabouts and blocking exits, just at sound if car horns!!

As a Swindonian I must object! The Magic Roundabout is a magnificent demonstration of how a multi junction roundabout could, and indeed, should work. I've driven across many times in rush hour without having to stop - there are different routes you can take and it is just brilliant.

[EDIT] as for the rest of the town, its a sh!thole, but I'm allowed to say that because I grew up there, if you say it I'll defend the town all the way

[EDIT 2] this is good https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/mad-mike- ... bout-video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[cricketfieldclarets]

When working I drove in most towns and cities of England and Wales. Swindon has without doubt the worst roundabout, The Magic Roundabout close to the football ground. Too difficult to even try and explain! Seven roundabouts in one. Chaos! Driving in Spain is similar at roundabouts and blocking exits, just at sound if car horns!!

The one at Hemel Hempstead is even worse!

[UpTheBeehole]

My personal favourite is when people have chosen the wrong lane on purpose to dodge traffic, and then expect letting in to the correct lane. Vivary Way in Colne is a perfect example.

Like **** I'm letting you in pal. Get turning right.

[alicante claret]

Just agree to differ, always gave me impression some drivers just closed eyes and prayed! So good planners in other towns have not copied its success. Better things to defend in Swindon.

[Rick_Muller]

Just agree to differ

OK, no worries

always gave me impression some drivers just closed eyes and prayed!

They do, in fact I remember my driving instructor advising just that...!

Better things to defend in Swindon.

Like what exactly...? apart from the Mechanics Institute for the GWR, which was the first real attempt at a social health service anywhere that I know of and Nye Bevan referenced Swindon as a model for the NHS (happy to be corrected!) I cant think of anything good in my home town...

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

Here's two things.

Melinda Messenger.

[BennyD]

Agree with all the above.....one situation that does puzzle me regarding the give way to cars on your right at a roundabout is this...
On a mini roundabout when there is a car waiting at each entrance to the roundabout who goes first? It could be a Mexican stand off lol.

It's cars on the roundabout, not those waiting, that have priority. As for the 'magic roundabout' I just picked my exit point on the far side, shut my eyes and straight lined it. I'm still here so it must have worked!

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Agree with all the above.....one situation that does puzzle me regarding the give way to cars on your right at a roundabout is this...
On a mini roundabout when there is a car waiting at each entrance to the roundabout who goes first? It could be a Mexican stand off lol.

One of the entrances on a mini roundabout will be a give way which encourages the flow of traffic

[ThinLizzy]

If you are referring to the boxes I concur. I don't drive over here but saw some poor woman getting properly harrassed off a bloke behind her because she didn't enter the box. Like it made but a cars length distance to him getting to his destination any quicker. Well. Even less so as I knocked on his window and explained the laws of the road and that he was in the wrong. Poor woman in front was terrified, yet she was right to stop where she did.

[cricketfieldclarets]

If you are referring to the boxes I concur. I don't drive over here but saw some poor woman getting properly harrassed off a bloke behind her because she didn't enter the box. Like it made but a cars length distance to him getting to his destination any quicker. Well. Even less so as I knocked on his window and explained the laws of the road and that he was in the wrong. Poor woman in front was terrified, yet she was right to stop where she did.

Did she let you enter the box?

[ThinLizzy]

Did she let you enter the box?

No. I'd clearly have been offside with my missus standing level with the line of play

[claretdom]

No. I'd clearly have been offside with my missus standing level with the line of play

Shouldn't have rushed to get ya ball forward then

[claret wizard]

As a Swindonian I must object! The Magic Roundabout is a magnificent demonstration of how a multi junction roundabout could, and indeed, should work. I've driven across many times in rush hour without having to stop - there are different routes you can take and it is just brilliant.

I learnt to drive in Swindon in the early 90's, no road system in the world has confused me since.

[Somethingfishy]

I have had that many close encounters I am seriously considering getting a dashcam..for amusement value as well as possible evidence.

Just the other day i was driving down Dryden Street in Padiham..i had passed under the narrow bridge (which in itself often highlights peoples impatience and inability to read a give way sign) and was just about to turn the corner at the end when a car came the other way and went straight across me into Abingdon Road..baring in mind that end of Abingdon Road has a set of white lines across the end the car should have given way until i had passed. No..straight across me..if i hadnt anchored on it would have hit me. Sometimes i wonder if it would be better to let them hit me and slam a claim in. It is these people that deserve an increase in their insurance premiums.

[No Ney Never]

Which is fine until you're left questioning why they've simply abandoned the car and walked off!

[atlantalad]

My personal favourite is when people have chosen the wrong lane on purpose to dodge traffic, and then expect letting in to the correct lane. Vivary Way in Colne is a perfect example.

Like **** I'm letting you in pal. Get turning right.

Local taxis are the main culprits for that manoeuvre... had many a game of chicken there and a give a Mr Bean smile as I look at them.

As for those entering boxes with Keep Clear in large print I guess they are just plain illegitimate ... sorry illiterate (میں ان پڑھ معنی )- same thing!

[tim_noone]

Local taxis are the main culprits for that manoeuvre... had many a game of chicken there and a give a Mr Bean smile as I look at them.

As for those entering boxes with Keep Clear in large print I guess they are just plain illegitimate ... sorry illiterate (میں ان پڑھ معنی )- same thing!

Got to disagree there....taxi drivers are a bit more savvy.... its mostly blokes under 40 from what i see at the colne section....ive got to get home before you types. The roads are full of idiots rushing nowhere,love the ones that have to overtake to be one space in front.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Had twonof them today. One undertook two of us at gannow roundabout to get stuck behind some dodderer at the lights.

[Somethingfishy]

The lane dodging happens after home games heading up Todmorden Road past the Towneley clubhouse. The road opens up into 2 lanes and then narrows back into one before the lights. Always get chancers that obviously feel they shouldnt have to queue. Then you see them all indicating to try and get back in as the road narrows. I keep close to the car infront..no way will i let them in. I just look at them shake my head and smile.

[DCWat]

My personal favourite is when people have chosen the wrong lane on purpose to dodge traffic, and then expect letting in to the correct lane. Vivary Way in Colne is a perfect example.

Like **** I'm letting you in pal. Get turning right.

That is annoying and amusing as they get ****** off when no one lets them in. Taxi drivers as mentioned are a big culprit.

There are too many roundabouts and junctions where the lane markings and or signs are not displayed soon enough (some not at all). You can stick to the usually correct lane only to find that twenty feet from exit that you're in the wrong booody lane.

It's fine if it's somewhere you know or if it's quiet enough to see the markings but if not you end up one of the 'pushers in' hoping someone will let you in alongside all the sneaky gets doing it on purpose.

[cricketfieldclarets]

The lane dodging happens after home games heading up Todmorden Road past the Towneley clubhouse. The road opens up into 2 lanes and then narrows back into one before the lights. Always get chancers that obviously feel they shouldnt have to queue. Then you see them all indicating to try and get back in as the road narrows. I keep close to the car infront..no way will i let them in. I just look at them shake my head and smile.

Most of these issues are irritating. But theres nothing wrong with the one you mentioned and if people in the left lane used it properly if would help the flow of traffic.

[bartons baggage]

Agree with all the above.....one situation that does puzzle me regarding the give way to cars on your right at a roundabout is this...
On a mini roundabout when there is a car waiting at each entrance to the roundabout who goes first? It could be a Mexican stand off lol.

Me i always go first in that situation,got no time for ditherers at roundabouts.

[BFCmaj]

The lane dodging happens after home games heading up Todmorden Road past the Towneley clubhouse. The road opens up into 2 lanes and then narrows back into one before the lights. Always get chancers that obviously feel they shouldnt have to queue. Then you see them all indicating to try and get back in as the road narrows. I keep close to the car infront..no way will i let them in. I just look at them shake my head and smile.

If drivers like you actually followed the Highway Code Somethingfishy and let drivers overtake in such situations then, as cricketfieldclarets mentioned, traffic would move more freely.


Rule 168
Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.

[CaptainClaret]

Sad thing is in Britain we're actually one of the best countries in the world for driving standards...
Been in NZ for 5 years and 99% certain my cause of death is guaranteed to be road accident, or stress caused by road rage

[Wile E Coyote]

My personal favourite is when people have chosen the wrong lane on purpose to dodge traffic, and then expect letting in to the correct lane. Vivary Way in Colne is a perfect example.

Like **** I'm letting you in pal. Get turning right.

agreed, but is there anything more frustrating than watching someone else letting them in ahead of you ?
If we all did the right thing, none of these b*****S would be able to squeeze in. I hate them with a real passion.

[Rick_Muller]

My personal favourite is when people have chosen the wrong lane on purpose to dodge traffic, and then expect letting in to the correct lane. Vivary Way in Colne is a perfect example.

Like **** I'm letting you in pal. Get turning right.

Similar to this scenario, but a different perspective. I get really frustrated when there is a merge in turn and the signs say use both lanes with 800 yards to go there's some cockwomble straddling both lanes trying to be traffic gestapo - just get out of my way you imbecile...

[UpTheBeehole]

agreed, but is there anything more frustrating than watching someone else letting them in ahead of you ?
If we all did the right thing, none of these b*****S would be able to squeeze in. I hate them with a real passion.

I'd love to make signs saying 'don't let them in' and 'they're cheeky buggers' and plant them in the grass verge on the left.

Hopefully then the softies who let them in, or the slow idiots who leave massive gaps to the car in front will learn.

[Somethingfishy]

If drivers like you actually followed the Highway Code Somethingfishy and let drivers overtake in such situations then, as cricketfieldclarets mentioned, traffic would move more freely.


Rule 168
Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.

Clearly you cannot read. It is a similar situation to the Vivary Way one in Colne. I am stuck in stationary/very slow moving traffic..it is a queue. Yes these drivers can pass in the other lane by law. However the majority will know it goes back down to one lane and will have to get back in. It is nothing but blatant pushing in/impatience. As for the traffic moving freely..it isnt..we are all waiting for the lights! Wait in line like the rest of us! Allowing them to come in doesnt help the situation in any way shape of form..it just encourages them to keep doing it while the rest of us wait.

[Bertiebeehead]

IMG_0623.JPG (249.52 KiB) Viewed 4388 times

[UpTheBeehole]

There's a huge difference between not letting an overtaking car doing 40+ back in on a normal 2-lane road, and not ceding to a cheeky get who's trying to gain an advantage on traffic travelling at 5mph.

[Somethingfishy]

Most of these issues are irritating. But theres nothing wrong with the one you mentioned and if people in the left lane used it properly if would help the flow of traffic.

Use it properly? As in keeping to the left hand lane? Waiting in line in the left hand lane? I'm not sure what you want me to do when waiting for the lights to change? The junction mentioned only has one lane at the lights no matter where you are turning. It goes back to one lane quite a way before the lights. It only has 2 lanes where the road is wide enough and then back to one.

They know exactly what they are doing..pushing in. As they do it seems in Colne.

[BFCmaj]

Clearly you cannot read. It is a similar situation to the Vivary Way one in Colne. I am stuck in stationary/very slow moving traffic..it is a queue. Yes these drivers can pass in the other lane by law. However the majority will know it goes back down to one lane and will have to get back in. It is nothing but blatant pushing in/impatience. As for the traffic moving freely..it isnt..we are all waiting for the lights! Wait in line like the rest of us! Allowing them to come in doesnt help the situation in any way shape of form..it just encourages them to keep doing it while the rest of us wait.

I bet you sit there with a red face shaking your fist at them.
Relax. Let them in and let the traffic flow more freely. If everybody showed more courtesy and kindness, the world would be a better place. What does it matter if a driver wants to overtake a stationary queue of traffic to get there a bit sooner? I would personally just let them in.

[Somethingfishy]

Nope i just smile while they do the fist shaking..knowing that I am in the right and have common decency. Sadly disappearing from society. Courtesy and kindness? Where is theirs? If everybody tried what they did it would be chaos.

Do you go straight to the front of a queue when in a shop? Should people show their courtesy when doing that? I can guarantee they wouldn't. Bizarre way of thinking.

[karatekid]

One way to improve traffic flow at roundabouts is to use your indicators so others know which way you are going.

Vivary way needs stingers in between the two lanes from about half way up. That would stop them. Maybe not the first time, but they wouldn't do it again.

[Somethingfishy]

One way to improve traffic flow at roundabouts is to use your indicators so others know which way you are going.

Vivary way needs stingers in between the two lanes from about half way up. That would stop them. Maybe not the first time, but they wouldn't do it again.

Ahh but on Todmorden Road post match it seems its courtesy to let people push in..maybe it is in Colne too?

[cricketfieldclarets]

Use it properly? As in keeping to the left hand lane? Waiting in line in the left hand lane? I'm not sure what you want me to do when waiting for the lights to change? The junction mentioned only has one lane at the lights no matter where you are turning. It goes back to one lane quite a way before the lights. It only has 2 lanes where the road is wide enough and then back to one.

They know exactly what they are doing..pushing in. As they do it seems in Colne.

The right lane is to help traffic flow through overtaking. Not for the left lane to then police this themselves by blocking people off, dangerously in many cases. It is entirely different to Colne which is a right turn only lane.

[Somethingfishy]

The traffic isnt flowing though anyway. I don't block anyone from overtaking..nobody can but i can certainly stop them getting back in..as the majority of others do. Wait your turn..as you would waiting for the bus or in a shop. The few that try and push in are not alleviating the traffic situation at all. They get made to wait or risk causing an accident by forcing their way in. There are no highway code issues here at all..it is simply people being pushy and refusing to queue like the rest of us. You are making it something it isn't. Stopping them coming back in does not cause any extra danger or issues. It doesnt affect the other side of the road...it just means they have to wait to be let back in...as they should.

[Somethingfishy]

I get it on Gannow roundabout too. I queue waiting for the lights in the correct lane which is often the busiest as i leave Padiham Road. Then i will get someone zooming past me in the other lane..then when we get to the bridge over the motorway approaching the other roundabout they will try and cut in front of me..often when there is not enough of a gap forcing me to brake. They take the lane with no traffic and cut across later. It is utter madness. It's the me me me in society rearing its head.

[UpTheBeehole]

Highway Code Section 288:
Do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic

[Somethingfishy]

Default Queue jumping when lanes merge

What should you do when you have to merge into one lane on the motorway?

We've all been there.....signs at 800 yards, 600 yards, 400 yards, 200 yards telling you that the lane ahead is merging into one.

If you get over to the left, then some traffic will use the free lane and jump in front of you. If you use the free lane, you are jumping to the front of the queue. If you block the free lane you get a split of either support or agression.......

The 'smart' answer is to use all available lanes up to the merge point then zip merge. This is the arguement used by the queue jumpers and supposedly what the highway code states.

What does the highway code state?
Section 134
You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.

but then....

Section 288
do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic

...very unclear.

If you use the arguement that you were already in the fast lane therefore have been advised not to change lanes...but you are still passing a lot of stationary/slow traffic that you will delay them more by doing this.

Opinion is divided on the 'most efficient' use of the road and speed of the traffic through the single lane.
Traffic will move quicker through the road works if it has already filtered into a single lane long before the merge. If you don't believe this then look next time - a zip merge at the merge point is really slow.
However if we all filter early, there is a lot of unused carriageway and the queue will be longer rather than wider.

Better signage might be the answer such as 'use both lanes' but until then I think the decent thing is to merge as soon as you know about the lane closure and wait your turn. It's just a shame that some people think that they can justify queue jumping by using one of many reasons.

We all have to queue in this situation and we would all rather not so the only fair solution is a first come, first served basis.

[timshorts]

Highway Code Section 288:
Do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic

Well it's no good putting in only the first half of the quote so that it is deliberately misleading. What section 288 clearly states is:-

"Do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic unless:-

a) The queuing traffic is in the left hand lane queuing to turn left and you require to turn right or proceed directly forwards
b) The queuing traffic is in the right hand lane queuing to turn right and you require to turn left or proceed directly forwards
c) The queuing traffic is in either/any lane and you are driving a BMW in which case you should move into one of the two special lanes reserved for BMW drivers (the hard shoulder or the empty lane)
d) You are female and driving a 4x4 for no apparent reason other than because your friends have one and you think it looks cool in which case for your own protection you can drive wherever the f##k you want and don't need to acknowledge thanks to anybody that is subsequently stupid enough to let you in. This includes driving straight over roundabouts when looking at yourself in the rear view mirror."

[pureclaret]

Just a question re roundabouts especially ones with white spot circle in the middle. if the road you are on and the one you are to go on to is a 30 mph speed limit what maximum speed should people be travelling at as they approach the roundabout and whilst on it???