Newcastle and double standards..lessons to be learned.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Mon May 08, 2017 11:58 am

short memeories Newcastle fans have, wasn't too long ago there were fans protests and the local media were going into meltdown about mike ashley and his mis management of the club, all conveniently forgotten once promotion has been secured.
No class whatsoever. Surely there should be a principle here, either the business side of club ownership is wrong at certain clubs or its acceptable.
Little point moaning just because the team are useless, then giving it the thumbs up once the fortunes turn for the better.
I know rovers example is extreme, but even their supporters quickly forget if it appears things may change.
A handfull of right minded fans can be influential in pointing out these anomolies when things are bad, but how it all evaporates if it seems the directors get lucky .
There's a real risk for lots of clubs up and down the land. Many clubs have already fell foul of poor ownership.
Personally, I detest the betting companies having anything to do with football, but because money talk, it seems almost anything goes thesedays.
There is a constant threat from set ups with an eye on the bank balance.
seems a bit precarious to me, the Premier league for all its popularity, seems to be on a knife edge, as long as the overseas betting syndicates are involved, and the stinking deals for TV rights are sold to the highest bidder, then they market the game as "the best " in the world.
It probably isn't, athletics is tainted by drugs, football is equally tainted by huge corporate giants, we need to be very careful and vigilant to protect our game.
Only so much fans should take before it becomes a step too far. Burnley appear well run, but unfortunately we have no say in how the the game is administrated.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 08, 2017 11:59 am

If you've ever got a Newcastle fan getting on your nerves ask them why they booed Bobby Robson, it's always good to watch them deny it ever happened.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon May 08, 2017 12:05 pm

I don't know why they were so against Ashley, he seems to have spent an absolute fortune even last season.

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Mon May 08, 2017 12:07 pm

Yes the Newcastle fans booed Bobby Robson then chairman Freddy Shepherd added insult to injury by sacking "Bambi".
Sheer class that but then Mike Ashley came along, beware what you wish for!

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Mon May 08, 2017 12:12 pm

Must be about 20 clubs been in administration, near to being bust or in trouble through breaching FFP rules some now non-league like Halifax, Chester Hereford, Darlington, Maidstone, Aldershot,Stanley, Pompey, Bournemouth, Coventry, Leeds, Southampton, Bolton, Doncaster, Rotherham, Blackpool, Leyton Orient, Charlton, Forest, Rovers, QPR and there will be others I cannot recall.
The game is sick tbh and we will recoup no rewards for trying to run the club well.
Just hope if the Directors want out they do not sell us to a Venky but more to true benefactors of which there are few if any.
Some of the clubs being bank rolled will really catch a cold if their "sugar daddies want out"

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Mon May 08, 2017 12:18 pm

KRBFC - as ever talking nonsense, Ashley's net spend was zero.
He sold Sissoko, Wjinaldum and Janmatt for approximately £65 million.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon May 08, 2017 12:20 pm

It surprises me that they only won the title with a single point more than us last season. I expected well over 100 points with the quality of their squad vs the rest of the division.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 08, 2017 12:28 pm

CleggHall wrote:KRBFC - as ever talking nonsense, Ashley's net spend was zero.
He sold Sissoko, Wjinaldum and Janmatt for approximately £65 million.

Didn't they actually make a profit on their transfers last summer?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 08, 2017 12:28 pm

FactualFrank wrote:It surprises me that they only won the title with a single point more than us last season. I expected well over 100 points with the quality of their squad vs the rest of the division.

I expected them to win every game the way their fans were gobbing off they were going to walk the league......

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon May 08, 2017 12:56 pm

CleggHall wrote:KRBFC - as ever talking nonsense, Ashley's net spend was zero.
He sold Sissoko, Wjinaldum and Janmatt for approximately £65 million.

Ashley has been there for a while not just this season.

Last season: Spent £90M received £5M
14/15: Spent £40M received £20M

Net spend 0? HAHAHAHAHA I think you will find you're the one talking nonsense because you were actually the one who brought net spend into it. Last season the net spend was 0 (I never ever said it wasn't) they made a profit, they still forked out over £50M in transfer fees after relegation to the Championship regardless of net spend, certainly not actions of a man unwilling to back a manager.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 08, 2017 12:58 pm

Net spend is worth remembering though, because it's more impressive to point out their transfer fees after everything were in profit.

Just like the season we signed Gray etc, our net spend wasn't very much, but people everywhere else only concentrate on what we paid out, usually because they're stupid/ignorant.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon May 08, 2017 1:02 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Net spend is worth remembering though, because it's more impressive to point out their transfer fees after everything were in profit.

Just like the season we signed Gray etc, our net spend wasn't very much, but people everywhere else only concentrate on what we paid out, usually because they're stupid/ignorant.

Yeah but I said ''I don't know why they were so against Ashley, he seems to have spent an absolute fortune even last season.''
I never mentioned net spend, I guess the poster above thought I meant the current season when I said last season when if you actually want to look at net spend they spent £90M on transfer fees and received under £5M.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 08, 2017 1:23 pm

KRBFC wrote:Yeah but I said ''I don't know why they were so against Ashley, he seems to have spent an absolute fortune even last season.''
I never mentioned net spend, I guess the poster above thought I meant the current season when I said last season when if you actually want to look at net spend they spent £90M on transfer fees and received under £5M.

Personally I agree with your view ref Ashley and the aggro he gets from the Geordies.

Some of his managerial choices have been odd, plus the appointments up in the boardroom were questionable.

He's clearly tried though plus at least he's about and visible, unlike Venky's.

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Mon May 08, 2017 1:35 pm

Newcastle is a somewhat unusual story.

When United went down, Ashley did an interview (very unusually), and basically put his hands up saying that he had made a lot of mistakes and, basically, that he'd been a bit of a dick and that it wouldn't happen again.

There was - perhaps understandably given that the business model that had p'd the supporters off for years - and had occasionally worked, but more normally flopped, widespread suspicion, cynicism and disbelief, but Ashley did actually keep to his word (that's where the story suddenly departs from our Venky's fairy tale). Even so, sales in the summer were about £30 million over purchases thanks largely to Tottenham wasting 30 million on Sissoko (and add Townsend to the list given by post 6 above). The supporters have got - for the main part - what they were clamouring for - a team that tries, not necessarily one that wins. Those that didn't try were, for the most part, dumped in the summer, sent out on loan, or benched. I feel some sympathy for Thauvin and Wijnaldum but that's about it.

Fat Freddy Shepherd was an awful owner. He was intolerant, made comments about supporters and the general populace of Newcastle that were stupid and unpardonable. Ashley has gone from being an awful owner to being pretty sensible.

There is a great similarity between Burnley fans and Newcastle fans. In both cases, they love players that make effort even if not entirely blessed with extreme skill, but can be intolerent of those that don't put their heart into it. If Newcastle had a team full of Ben Mee's and Sam Vokes' they'd be pretty happy - but then if they'd had a Ben Mee instead of one or two of the wasters that they had playing at the back 2 years ago they'd not have gone down in the first place.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon May 08, 2017 3:26 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Personally I agree with your view ref Ashley and the aggro he gets from the Geordies.

Some of his managerial choices have been odd, plus the appointments up in the boardroom were questionable.

He's clearly tried though plus at least he's about and visible, unlike Venky's.

Yeah as a neutral it does appear he has at least made an effort and pumped cash into transfers etc. I agree, the appointment of McLaren was a shocker, he made a mistake but to his credit he did notice and change pretty quickly. I can't comment about the boardroom appointments because I simply don't know anything about it.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 08, 2017 3:35 pm

KRBFC wrote:Yeah as a neutral it does appear he has at least made an effort and pumped cash into transfers etc. I agree, the appointment of McLaren was a shocker, he made a mistake but to his credit he did notice and change pretty quickly. I can't comment about the boardroom appointments because I simply don't know anything about it.

Dennis Wise was appointed to a position above the managers........

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon May 08, 2017 3:38 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Dennis Wise was appointed to a position above the managers........

I have no idea what role he plays at Newcastle nor do I know how good he is at his current job. Wise is a sh*t stain though.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Mon May 08, 2017 6:15 pm

Mike Ashley did not endear himself to the fans when he first took over because he employed a lot of 'southerners' in administrative/managerial jobs, Dennis Wise being a prime example.
This immediately riled the average Geordie and it didn't take long for the majority to jump on the band wagon and join the hate camapign. What many didn't realise was that he had kept the club afloat in his own offbeat way.
As can be seen with his own business dealings, he does not throw money at things and this is one of the things the fans did not like because they just thought that, because he had lots of money he should be putting it into the club.
As timshorts said above, he came out and said that mistakes had been made when they went down last season and it was obvious that he had to ensure that RAFA stayed onboard if they had to have any chance of being promoted. He achieved that objective and gave RAFA money to get the players in that he wanted and it has paid off. Nobody up here seems certain what is going to happen now though because RAFA will be demanding a shedload of money to spend to keep them up.

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Mon May 08, 2017 7:31 pm

Agreed Ashington, Ashley has learnt on the job to eventually become a half-decent football club owner. Made many mistakes along the way (Kinnear, sacking Allardyce, McLaren appointment, drinking with the fans, allowing Carr to sign many duff French players, renaming St James' Park etc). Seldom attends matches these days, quite rightly has devolved footballing matters to Benitez but Carr is still intruding on transfer business witness the failure to allow squad strengthening ( Townsend?) in January. Current team is lightweight for the PL, short of class and may need 6/7 signings, still some doubt if Benitez will stay but the magnificent support and stadium should ensure a degree of success next season. Look forward to seeing the Clarets at SJP, another 3 all draw would be OK.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon May 08, 2017 9:17 pm

CleggHall wrote:Agreed Ashington, Ashley has learnt on the job to eventually become a half-decent football club owner. Made many mistakes along the way (Kinnear, sacking Allardyce, McLaren appointment, drinking with the fans, allowing Carr to sign many duff French players, renaming St James' Park etc). Seldom attends matches these days, quite rightly has devolved footballing matters to Benitez but Carr is still intruding on transfer business witness the failure to allow squad strengthening ( Townsend?) in January. Current team is lightweight for the PL, short of class and may need 6/7 signings, still some doubt if Benitez will stay but the magnificent support and stadium should ensure a degree of success next season. Look forward to seeing the Clarets at SJP, another 3 all draw would be OK.

No mention of your stupid post above then...

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Mon May 08, 2017 9:35 pm

KRBFC - you know nothing about Newcastle FC and very little about Burnley, however your ignorance has never prevented you pontificating about anything and everything. When do you leave school ?

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Mon May 08, 2017 10:38 pm

Ashley took over in May 2007 and gained full control in July the same year. Since that time Newcastle have paid £279,800,000 in transfer fees and have received £257,100,000 for players sold. The net spend over 10 seasons amounts to £22,700,000 which, in the grand scale of things is quite a small amount.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 08, 2017 10:54 pm

That's a staggeringly small amount.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 09, 2017 2:42 am

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:Ashley took over in May 2007 and gained full control in July the same year. Since that time Newcastle have paid £279,800,000 in transfer fees and have received £257,100,000 for players sold. The net spend over 10 seasons amounts to £22,700,000 which, in the grand scale of things is quite a small amount.

What are the figures since Garlick took over? regardless of the net spend it's pretty irrelevant in this conversation about Ashley being willing to back the manager. Did Garlick not back Dyche then in our last promotion season because the net spend would've been low? Ashley has been willing to spend money and back the manager regardless of net spend, just like Garlick backed Dyche last year despite the net spend being low after the sales/fee's received for Tripps, Shackell and Ings. Plenty of bad owners have received large fees for players and completely asset stripped and re-invested little in players, IMO re-investing money brought in from player sales is certainly not bad ownership. Asset stripping like Oyston has done at Blackpool is bad ownership. Let's not forget, owners don't just pay out for transfer fees.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 09, 2017 2:46 am

CleggHall wrote:KRBFC - you know nothing about Newcastle FC and very little about Burnley, however your ignorance has never prevented you pontificating about anything and everything. When do you leave school ?

You just said Ashley's net spend last season was zero which is incorrect and actually makes you the one lacking knowledge. It's quite easy to use the internet to find such information and it's pretty remarkable you thought Newcastle sold Sissoko last season

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Tue May 09, 2017 8:33 am

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:Ashley took over in May 2007 and gained full control in July the same year. Since that time Newcastle have paid £279,800,000 in transfer fees and have received £257,100,000 for players sold. The net spend over 10 seasons amounts to £22,700,000 which, in the grand scale of things is quite a small amount.

And how much on wages... bet it's not a profit after that

Newcastle and double standards..lessons to be learned.

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